00:04:05 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD9386C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:04:06 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:10 taylanub [tub@p4FD93574.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:04:27 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 00:14:46 -!- walter|r [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:25:25 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:25:59 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:17 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:46 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 00:35:37 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 00:37:24 walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:13 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:25 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 01:06:55 -!- zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:29 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:14:27 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:32 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 01:24:54 -!- kurk is now known as sambio 01:25:13 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 01:25:13 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #scheme 01:25:41 coi 01:26:58 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 01:28:03 The R7RS-small plebiscite begins tomorrow. See http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2013-April/003299.html for details. 01:28:04 http://tinyurl.com/cbr8y7d 01:30:48 rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:32:33 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 01:33:04 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@209.99.213.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:34:50 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:49 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:44:29 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:40 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:04 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 01:49:47 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:33 acarrico [~acarrico@209.99.213.66] has joined #scheme 01:52:53 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 01:54:34 FareWell 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[~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 03:50:49 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:51:06 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 03:52:48 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:52:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:08 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 03:53:56 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 03:53:58 http://tilebased.hp.af.cm/ 03:55:07 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:04:24 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:11:00 -!- pierpa [~user@host28-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29:23 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:30:02 humbug [~humbug@123.201.97.31] has joined #scheme 04:30:52 hey gomad 04:31:03 this game is looking pretty good so far 04:39:59 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 04:56:47 tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has joined #scheme 05:12:59 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:20 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:17:14 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 05:19:57 -!- tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:20:28 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 05:23:21 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:27:32 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 05:30:39 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 05:46:30 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 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Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 08:00:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-250.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:00:33 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #scheme 08:05:28 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.208.66.22] has joined #scheme 08:07:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 08:30:46 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:37:08 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:59 -!- tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:19:21 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:34:16 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 09:37:16 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:12 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6003D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:17 woop! 10:08:27 *amoe* looks forward to exercising his privileges as a pleb. 10:29:45 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 10:31:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:33:26 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 10:34:45 -!- zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:35:43 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:40:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:45:59 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.61] has joined #scheme 10:48:21 -!- adiii [~adityavit@173-164-141-1-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:13 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 11:13:43 -!- zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:23:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:47 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.174.152] has joined #scheme 11:27:16 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #scheme 11:31:15 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:49 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:35:53 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.208.66.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 11:36:32 agumonkey [~agu@71.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 11:37:08 -!- permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:53:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:54:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:19:23 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:22:15 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:24:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.174.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:08 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:38 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #scheme 12:43:04 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:22 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:48:43 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 12:53:14 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.225] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:53:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:43 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 12:56:38 pierpa [~user@host28-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 12:57:39 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 13:05:14 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:09:25 permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has joined #scheme 13:14:42 snearch [~snearch@brln-4dba3d82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 13:18:40 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:13 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme 13:38:51 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:43:12 adiii [~adityavit@173-164-141-1-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:43:13 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:45:55 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 13:48:32 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:51 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:50 xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has joined #scheme 14:48:56 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:53:35 -!- snearch [~snearch@brln-4dba3d82.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:59:21 kurk [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #scheme 14:59:36 -!- kurk [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:08 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #scheme 15:03:55 jao [~jao@48.Red-88-17-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:58 -!- jao [~jao@48.Red-88-17-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:03:58 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 15:04:35 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:06:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:49 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:29 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:48 -!- xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:09:51 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-171-19.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:13:48 -!- ijp [~user@host81-155-27-94.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:05 ijp [~user@host81-155-27-94.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:17:45 pumpkin360 [~main@aagz61.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:18:26 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:18:33 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 15:20:56 Hi. I am reading the SICP. I came to exercise 1.22 and I'm told to use the "runtime" primitive but it doesn't seem to be recognized. Does anyone know how can I get the time? Doesn't matter in what interpreter - but the prefered on is guile (as I use it the most often) 15:26:10 SICP kind of assumes Mit Scheme at certain points 15:28:56 you could use (current-time) 15:30:04 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #scheme 15:31:41 actually, a more accurate translation would be to use internal-time-units-per-second and get-internal-run-time 15:32:09 mit-scheme returns "0" 15:32:13 always 15:32:34 I was talking about guile 15:33:01 current-time is actually a little problematic, since it wont' be granular enough 15:33:58 In MIT Scheme, (runtime) yields the amount of time (with low resolution) that the process has spent on the CPU. 15:34:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:34:22 So if you launch it and immediately call (runtime), it might round to zero. 15:34:36 seems to work. 15:34:42 https://gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Time.html#Time is the relevant section of the guile manual 15:34:47 thanks. 15:35:08 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:45:20 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:59 -!- pumpkin360 [~main@aagz61.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #scheme 15:54:18 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:59:55 xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has joined #scheme 16:00:04 -!- xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:41 xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has joined #scheme 16:03:20 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@71.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:51 agumonkey [~agu@77.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:17:42 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@77.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:00 agumonkey [~agu@86.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:29 -!- agumonkey [~agu@86.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:21 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26:32 agumonkey [~agu@108.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:27:05 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6003D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:28:47 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 16:31:41 -!- agumonkey [~agu@108.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:18 agumonkey [~agu@112.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:37:04 -!- agumonkey [~agu@112.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:42:56 humbug [~humbug@112.167.211.69] has joined #scheme 16:49:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:53:05 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 16:57:52 agumonkey [~agu@160.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 17:01:16 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:08:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:44 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:12:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@160.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13:12 anyone done work on implied linked lists? 17:13:28 where instead of storing links, you imply that contiguous objects are linked? 17:14:42 (vector a b c) (vector c b e) 17:14:45 unless vectors can be treated transparently as list right now... 17:14:49 what is b linked to? 17:14:54 e 17:14:57 normally 17:15:05 except it is also next to c 17:15:06 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 17:15:18 but it would be linked forward, no? 17:15:22 -!- adiii [~adityavit@173-164-141-1-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:26 like the list metaphor 17:16:05 I don't understand how this can possibly help 17:16:34 stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:16:57 -!- xwl [~user@119.161.133.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:17 setting aside my earlier question about the strange case of an object existing in more than one data structure, now you can have spooky action whereby operations on the container changes properties of the objects 17:18:33 hmm 17:18:59 that's not so bad I think 17:19:02 (vector-swap! a idx1 idx2) would require changing the pointers of 4 objects 17:19:02 then again 17:19:19 (worse case) 17:19:29 (or copying two objects to assume the locations of pointers for those locations) 17:20:01 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:20:06 you could also use fixed-precision numbers 17:20:13 the important thing is: what's the point? 17:20:15 and not have pointers at all 17:20:37 the point is that abstracting things so that you need to perform arithmetic to prepare for performing arithmetic has costs 17:20:40 big costs 17:20:45 lots of confusion to save a word an object? 17:21:08 five, six cycles rather than one or two 17:21:20 how is it abstraction to rely on properties of layount in memory ? 17:21:51 it's abstraction to place pointers to objects where you could allocate statically enough memory for the values themselves 17:22:29 and instead of doing four copies and some arithmetic, you do two copies 17:22:45 you also save yourself storing three times as much in memory 17:22:46 Some Lisp systems, particularly Lisp machines, did cdr-coding, but nobody does it any more. Too much effort for too little benefit. 17:22:56 hmm 17:23:21 As near as I can tell, you came up with a name, and then tried to fit an idea around it 17:23:53 what name did I come up with? 17:23:57 For small integer arithmetic, the preparation for performing arithmetic in most Scheme systems is a single branch (is this a fixnum or not?). 17:23:58 "implied linked list" 17:24:15 yes 17:24:37 to imply in the type system, that contiguous static-length objects are essentially "linked" 17:24:40 just by being local 17:24:54 cdr coding seems to be what I was looking for 17:24:57 The concept you had in mind under the name `implied linked list' is probably the same as cdr-coding. 17:25:29 yes 17:25:57 I've not studied this extensively, hence why I wanted to talk about it 17:26:06 seems lots of research has already gone into it anyway 17:26:12 just needed to know the name 17:26:30 "implied linked list" is more of a description, though? 17:26:41 not much of a name 17:27:05 "falcon", "apple" and "parcel" are names of things 17:27:08 well, none of these words tells you what it does if you don't know beforehand :) 17:27:15 well 17:27:26 it tells you that there's a linked list which is somehow implied 17:27:40 gives you more idea than an acronym 17:28:14 unrolled linked lists seem to have a better tradeoff 17:28:27 fewer links, but less allocation and copy overhead as well 17:29:07 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:29:26 well 17:29:39 I'm interested in implementing scheme, specifically in a hardware description 17:29:47 that's why I'm thinking about this stuff 17:30:02 fuark [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 17:30:11 did you find the scheme processors that were developped already? 17:31:46 this one for example: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6468 17:32:10 yeah 17:32:13 I've been looking around 17:32:31 but what I'm more interested in is a non-imperative machine 17:32:57 one which can expand processes on limited resources without a cycle wall 17:33:17 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:33:24 and make intelligent caching decisions 17:33:56 agumonkey [~agu@206.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:02 (integration at the MMU, cache controller, resource subscription level) 17:34:40 hardware concurrent garbage collection with no waits 17:34:45 etc. 17:34:57 a real decade project 17:35:30 that probably doesn't exist yet :) 17:36:21 exactly 17:36:29 I yearn for such a machine 17:36:54 start a project to make one. fpgas are cheap these days i heard :) 17:37:04 and ironically, I'm also somewhat interested in how one would best implement imperative, dirty languages like C 17:37:17 ecraven: relatively cheap, I could get something to host this for less than two-thousand dollars 17:37:24 for now I'm researching 17:37:26 "this"? 17:37:49 ecraven: a design of this complexity 17:38:06 (assuming the first few batches will be really, really rough) 17:38:25 (and they will, because I have no formal education in VLSI) 17:38:58 for now, I'll work on components in a software simulator like Icarus or FreeHDL 17:39:30 because that's cleaner, faster work than working with an FPGA package like Xilinx's 17:39:47 did you ever design any hardware? 17:39:53 that's the problem 17:39:59 I've read buttloads about it 17:40:10 talked buttloads about it 17:40:23 but I don't have the money to put up for an FPGA at the moment 17:40:32 nor money for discrete components 17:40:51 (above scavenged and low-cost stuff in small quantities) 17:40:51 -!- agumonkey [~agu@206.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:55 you can emulate everything on your computer 17:41:05 given enough cycles, yes 17:41:19 agumonkey [~agu@215.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:20 I've done some of that 17:41:35 what kind of architecture are you aiming for 17:42:14 I'm sure you could emulate the hardware of a Lisp machine on modern hardware faster than any physical Lisp machine ever actually ran... 17:42:21 I'm aiming for an architecture suitable to the non-imperative, goal-oriented execution our languages want from processors 17:42:59 compilers, as far as I can tell, have fairly out-of-order representations internally, with dependency graphs and everything 17:43:04 Riastradh: probably even on a smartphone.. amazing, really 17:43:06 On modern conventional hardware, that is. 17:43:33 but then they translate to imperative, in-order machine code for the processor 17:43:35 microcode: have you written a compiler for scheme? 17:44:12 then the processor does dependency analysis on that again, decomposes it, and tries to make its execution as efficient as it's set up to accomplish 17:44:17 Intel tried making a dependency-oriented instruction set to enable compilers to optimize pipeline utilization. It came to be known as the Itanic. 17:44:20 ecraven: I've made primitive ones 17:44:33 Itanium sales are climbing linearly ;) 17:44:56 and have been climbing almost exactly linearly since its introduction 17:45:04 Itanium isn't exactly dependency-oriented 17:45:34 it's still very linear and imperative 17:45:46 hell, it even has predicated execution 17:45:54 doesn't get more linear than that :P 17:45:56 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@215.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:40 ecraven: I should really try implementing this in software first, but it's hard 17:46:49 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD93574.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 17:46:50 agumonkey [~agu@223.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:00 I need to build it with assumptions that it won't have issues that it does in software, when I get around to implementing the hardware 17:47:04 which is a bit silly in my mind 17:47:19 taylanub [tub@p4FD93574.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:48:33 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:42 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:20 I'm aware this sounds like the naïve ramblings of some testosterone-high teenager 17:51:50 but hopefully it'll materialize into the useful machine I want to see 17:51:56 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 17:52:01 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 17:53:22 anyone have any reading I ought to do if I'm going to dive head-first into building a pure lisp machine with fancy GC and memory allocation? 17:53:29 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:55:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@223.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:14 sambio_ [~sambio@host116.190-228-67.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 17:55:39 First implement an interpreter, compiler, GC, &c., on a conventional machine. 17:56:09 mmkay 17:57:07 I guess I could have a mode where it would split time equally between GC and execution, to get a feel for what real concurrent GC could mean in terms of memory throughput required etc. 17:58:15 kristo_ [~sambio@host116.190-228-67.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 17:58:23 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:32 -!- sambio_ [~sambio@host116.190-228-67.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:14 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #scheme 18:01:05 microcode: why exactly won't it work in hardware as in hardware emulation? 18:01:42 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:39 -!- kristo_ [~sambio@host116.190-228-67.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:06:24 ecraven: hardware emulation and hardware will behave similarly 18:06:59 but implementing it as a conventional software system requires some thought to make it behave like I want the hardware to behave 18:09:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:11:17 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:05 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:19:06 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:06 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 18:21:28 microcode: an incremental compiler which emits native x86_64 code would be interesting ;) JIT and whatnot.. 18:32:56 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 18:36:36 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:38:13 hmm 18:43:34 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:45:29 agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 18:50:08 xwl [~user@123.108.223.108] has joined #scheme 18:51:18 microcode: a lot of machines are actually implemented with some microprocessor programmed to behave just like this machine. It's just easier to do it like this. 18:52:24 Besides, there's no fundamental difference between flashing silicon once for all, programming a FGPA, or programming a microprocessor: you get the same kind of machine in either case. Only with different cost structures and maintainance ease. 18:53:47 microcode: so what you could do is to take a Raspberry Pi, keep the linux kernel, write a init program in lisp, and then keep writing user space programs in lisp. Only in lisp. Until you get a usable system, a pure lisp machine. 18:54:09 Yes, you would need a C compiler to compile the firmware^W linux kernel. 18:54:20 But it's just a small part of a system. 18:54:47 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 18:56:37 -!- fuark [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:06:42 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:57 ijp` [~user@host81-155-27-94.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:08 -!- ijp [~user@host81-155-27-94.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:09:16 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 19:11:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:46 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:36 Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 19:20:00 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:20:43 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 19:21:31 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:21 trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.93] has joined #scheme 19:26:47 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 19:26:55 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 19:30:59 the pliant guys did that with pliant 19:31:19 keep the kernel and a few statically linked utilities like ifconfig 19:41:50 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44:01 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:44:35 pjb: while that would be easier, it doesn't fix the issues I want to fix 19:44:40 I think such a system exists by the way 19:45:36 -!- saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-jtkjxaskgklvdard] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:41 what I want to solve is partially a concurrency problem 19:45:58 partially a problem with current GP computer architectures as well 19:46:46 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:49:44 saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-ompbydcjakweggxs] has joined #scheme 19:51:51 microcode, what are you trying to solve? 19:52:59 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:55:37 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:14 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:53 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:01:10 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:42 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #scheme 20:04:53 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection 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