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has joined #scheme 04:00:27 myk267 [~myk@adsl-75-23-132-24.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-151-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04:45 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-151-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 04:05:57 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:06:07 Boo! 04:06:23 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:06:41 paredit is about to turn into a git. 04:12:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:13 uh? 04:17:18 I'm transmogrifying it from a darcs to a git. 04:23:57 tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has joined #scheme 04:25:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-1-90.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:34:20 Why are you moving it? 04:37:19 Darcs (and GHC) is too much trouble. 04:37:25 http://mumble.net/~campbell/git/paredit.git 04:39:42 -!- tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has quit [Quit: ...] 04:40:27 yay git 04:40:35 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:05 I'm no fan of Git, but it works and the world supports it. 04:46:24 tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has joined #scheme 04:46:45 I'm mostly stuck with perforce, but the way things are going, I may be able to switch at least partly to git, which would be a huge improvement in some areas. 04:50:27 -!- tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:54 tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has joined #scheme 04:52:57 -!- tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:22 tacey [~tacey@211.101.48.70] has joined #scheme 04:54:12 -!- tacey [~tacey@211.101.48.70] has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:27 -!- yeming [~user@180.168.36.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:37 yeming [~user@180.168.36.194] has joined #scheme 04:57:48 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:48 William_ [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:21 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bpoaddpflmawqmxw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:05:38 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:33 -!- tertl3 [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:08 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 05:23:51 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:26:39 paredit 23 is out: http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit-23.el (many changes from 22, but no substantial changes from the beta that had been sitting around for a year or two) 05:27:57 -!- Triclops256|away [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:28:28 Triclops256|away [~Triclops2@199.19.116.207] has joined #scheme 05:28:28 -!- Triclops256|away is 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#scheme 06:13:41 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@ip82-139-81-70.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 06:18:46 Thanks, Riastradh. 06:20:03 Riastrad1 [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 06:20:06 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:27 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 06:32:54 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 06:34:33 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:34:45 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 06:34:53 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:53 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 06:40:01 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:41:09 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:50 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 06:45:35 bjz_ 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[~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:45:51 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:54:56 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:59:07 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #scheme 16:59:07 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:07 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #scheme 17:00:12 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:59 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:06 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17:56 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:19 Fancy new stuff in paredit.el. Well, old stuff that I didn't get around to integrating for a while. 17:25:14 edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:25:57 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:26:49 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:33:39 *ijp* makes a note to update 17:35:46 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:38:50 Well, this fancy stuff is in . 17:39:21 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:33 31NAADGFT [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:33 16SAA86BR [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:33 -!- 31NAADGFT [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:33 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:50 -!- 16SAA86BR 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be a way to reverse a list using just one recursive function, just using cons/cdr/car? 20:11:32 make the accumulator an optional argument 20:11:41 hope people don't touch it 20:13:06 or provide it as a feature, cf nreconc and revappend 20:14:18 well, i mean a recursive procedure, one without an accumulator or other such iterative structure (question is prompted by working through sicp :) 20:14:20 sbaugh: (define (r list) (if (null? list) list (cons (car (last list)) (r (butlast list))))) 20:14:30 pjb: but then you have butlast 20:15:22 -!- edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:15:51 another way to do it involves higher order functions. 20:16:17 but then you have car. 20:16:28 pjb: he explicitly allows car 20:16:49 ok. The answer is still yes. Just a little more silly. 20:18:48 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD601FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:18:51 but how do you get last/butlast, if they aren't functions on their own? 20:19:17 You put them inline with the y-combinator. 20:19:23 Do you like writing assembler? 20:19:35 the y-combinator is a very unsatisfying solution to this IMO 20:19:44 it uses only cons/cdr/car 20:19:59 and all the rest 20:20:09 Also, rejecting iteration when you're writing a recursive function is an oxymoron. 20:23:25 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD601FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:25:55 ijp: how would it be done with a higher order function? 20:26:14 sbaugh: just a sec and I'll paste it 20:33:17 https://gist.github.com/5332372 20:34:05 unless I've cocked up, the only recursive procedure should be reverse* 20:36:20 Very funny. 20:36:42 pjb: actually, this representation of lists has a practical use 20:37:13 by representing lists as functions from list -> list, append becomes function composition 20:38:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difference_list 20:38:15 copumpkin: just so 20:38:36 the trick is much more familiar to haskell programmers than schemers 20:38:42 You have a chain of closures, but they all have the same function, so one could consider that you still have a recursive function, with an explicit stack. 20:39:18 except the recursion has been unrolled 20:39:31 also prolog 20:39:31 No, you still have a stack. 20:39:48 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 20:39:56 the definition of recursion has no reference to a stack 20:40:22 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:23 that we've been implementing it that way since algol $version, is a different matter 20:42:36 hmm, i don't think my understanding is advanced enough yet to understand this procedure, ijp :) thanks, I will save this and attempt to comprehend it later 20:43:19 while amusing, I do not recommend writing your code in such a manner 20:45:22 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:45:44 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:52 sbaugh: would you like me to explain it to you? It shouldn't take very long 20:47:21 ijp: sure, that would be helpful 20:47:52 okay so, the definition of reverse* is really just your bog standard reverse, using a different list representation 20:48:05 -!- myk267 is now known as Myk267 20:48:08 i.e. (define (reverse l) (if (null? l) '() (append (reverse (cdr l)) (list (car l))))) 20:48:21 snoc = cons to end 20:49:02 a list gets represented as function that appends it's argument to the end of the list 20:49:21 (define (list->dlist l) (lambda (rest) (append l rest))) 20:49:30 -!- zzing [~zzing@s72-38-129-82.static.comm.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:49:58 so, for the empty list case, you get (lambda (rest) (append '() rest)), which is the identity function 20:50:44 and you append these new lists by function composition . (compose f g) = (lambda (x) (f (g x))) 20:51:45 now, because you stipulated only one recursive function, this is not really any good, since we are using list append in our implementation 20:52:02 edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:52:43 now, you can append to the end, just be changing the order of the arguments 20:53:28 and we dont' really need list append, since the first argument is always length 1: we can use cons 20:55:05 so, for a list '(1 2 3) we end up with a chain of functions (cons 3 to result) (cons 2 to result) (cons 1 to result) 20:55:44 so we pass in a '() at the end, and it reduces to '(3 2 1) 20:56:43 (I really should have written this down first and then posted it to IRC, since doing it off-the-cuff is less readable than I'd have liked) 20:57:31 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:35 sorry bout that 20:57:48 hmmm 21:02:30 sbaugh: I've updated https://gist.github.com/ijp/5332372 to show you what procedures get built, and what their arguments are. Hopefully it will be helpful. 21:02:57 Ogre [~i@unaffiliated/ogre] has joined #scheme 21:03:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03:03 can anyone see what i'm doing wrong here? http://paste.villavu.com/show/4590/ 21:06:19 ijp: I think I see it 21:06:45 Ogre: (cons ((apply + (map (lambda (x) (* (cdr x) out)) matches))) (cons-outs n (cdr neurons))) 21:07:01 Ogre: you have an additional pair of parens around that apply 21:07:20 welp. thanks ijp 21:07:28 should have been obvious 21:12:24 ijp: Thanks, that was very helpful! I believe I understand it now 21:16:37 -!- Ogre [~i@unaffiliated/ogre] has left #scheme 21:16:49 kniu [~kniu@c-67-160-8-163.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:55 -!- jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:06 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:29:38 -!- edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:31:02 dessos [~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:24 -!- MehLaptop [~MehLaptop@209.129.115.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:55 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-52-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:58 ijp: so, would it actually be harder to get just a simple copy of a list in dlist form, as opposed to reversing it? 21:37:29 no no 21:38:47 masm [~masm@bl18-52-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:39:20 but there isn't much reason to jump through that hoop for copying a list :) 21:43:13 oh, i see, you'd just do (cons element (dlist rest)) instead of (dlist (cons element rest)) 21:44:41 sbaugh: right, but it's a little more transparent if you write it in terms of dlist-append. 21:45:23 (define (dlist-append f g) (lambda (x) (f (g x)))) (define (singleton x) (lambda (rest) (cons x rest))) (define (dlist-cons e dlist) (dlist-append (singleton e) dlist)) (define (dlist-snoc dlist e) (dlist-append dlist (singleton e))) 21:47:11 edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:47:19 ah! thank you again! 21:48:29 -!- William_ [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:51 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:50:56 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:17 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:59 masm1 [~masm@bl18-52-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:57:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-52-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:05 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:05 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:10 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD601FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:58:21 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD601FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 22:00:41 kib0 [~kib0@200.66.0.117] has joined #scheme 22:05:05 -!- masm1 [~masm@bl18-52-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:05 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:10:13 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Odcházím] 22:14:35 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:16:41 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 22:19:52 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:28:50 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 22:29:27 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:56 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:40:27 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:34 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:43 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:50:26 shinypokemon [~stephen@pool-108-46-116-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:56:29 -!- edw_ [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-22.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:07:18 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #scheme 23:08:15 -!- tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:47 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD601FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:20:13 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:22:06 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:45 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:44 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61CBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:48:53 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 23:57:08 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]