00:00:52 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:01:27 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 00:02:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:20:26 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 00:24:05 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6084A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:28:42 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has joined #scheme 00:31:03 Regis_ [~Regis@186.222.62.175] has joined #scheme 00:33:11 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:47:16 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-21-229.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:33 youlysse` [~user@75-132-21-229.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:57:43 -!- Fare [~fare@146.94.106.109.dynamic.sat.abo.nordnet.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:02 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:14 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:50 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 01:03:20 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 01:04:27 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 01:04:42 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 01:08:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:11 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-21-229.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:10:15 -!- Regis_ [~Regis@186.222.62.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:15 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has joined #scheme 01:29:40 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:26 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:24 qrstuv1 [none@50.122.17.254] has joined #scheme 01:34:53 -!- qrstuv [none@50.122.28.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:36:52 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:45:43 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 01:53:40 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 01:58:15 githogori_ [~githogori@c-76-103-82-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:01:17 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:55 Someone feel like taking a quick look at one of my proposals for WG2? It's to layer C-style structs on top of bytevectors. 02:05:03 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 02:08:43 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/StructuresCowan 02:09:26 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:10:50 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 02:22:30 sc->sc_nq_txdescs[sc->sc_txnext].nqrx_ctx.nqtxc_mssidx = htole32(mssidx); 02:25:37 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #scheme 02:28:22 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-133-188.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:29:44 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has joined #scheme 02:32:27 Riastradh: And the meaning of this is? 02:32:43 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:25 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:34:17 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.13.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:34:40 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 02:35:21 Just a little thought about C-style structs. 02:35:21 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 02:36:09 Riastradh: Ah, I see. My proposal doesn't (yet) support nested structs, only structs of basic types. 02:36:39 But that's a Good Thing to add. Still, structs containing pointers aren't going to be supported portably as a practical matter, and they are a far more common use case. 02:36:43 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #scheme 02:36:48 -!- MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:06 MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has joined #scheme 02:40:19 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.245.175] has joined #scheme 02:43:49 azkane [~ahm@189.236.46.31] has joined #scheme 02:49:38 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:05:16 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 03:09:36 jcowan: Is the intention to make them map exactly to C structs, or just to work like how you would want C structs to work if you were trying to use them to extract structure out of a stream of bytes? 03:09:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:02 levi: I'm not sure what the distinction is. 03:10:23 (C structures are only good for doing that in an implementation-dependent manner) 03:10:57 The compiler is free to insert internal padding between fields. 03:11:06 Well, because of padding, yes. The proposal suggests that implementations use padding in the same way as the "dominant C compiler on the platform" 03:11:22 There should probably be an option to turn it off. 03:11:41 I agree; I would find it mostly useful with the option off. 03:12:14 But others would probably use it more with the option on. 03:12:37 I do a lot of embedded systems programming and low-level network programming. 03:13:04 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:04 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105-236-5-36.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-58-198.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- Zuchto [~zuchto@li305-238.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:05 -!- 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quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:14 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:14 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:14 -!- impaktor_ [~user@johnny.thep.lu.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:14 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:14 -!- foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:15 -!- pyro-_ [~pyro@zhaozhou.dcollins.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:15 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:17:00 -!- MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17:38 MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has joined #scheme 03:21:39 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:21 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 03:30:17 There are basically two use cases I have personally for such a thing. 03:30:43 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 03:31:40 One (which I admit is not terribly applicable to a Scheme implementation) is to perform structured access to the control registers of memory-mapped devices when implementing drivers. 03:32:11 The other is performing structured access to network protocol data. 03:32:36 Okay, I've just added a "pad?" field, which if false prevents padding. 03:32:55 There is also the need to store lots of stuff where Scheme records are too space-consuming. 03:33:54 Yeah, that's probably a situation where following the platform's C compiler's padding rules would be useful. 03:33:55 committed. 03:34:13 Yes. Or you want to do binary I/O under the same circs. 03:34:19 Have you looked at the page? Not very long. 03:34:29 I have, but not in depth. 03:37:04 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 03:39:19 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 03:39:31 Do you want to support mapping of bytestreams that contain data that is in a foreign byte order? 03:41:01 That would be an easy extension, given the endianism-specific types at http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/NumericVectorsCowan. 03:41:06 Do you recommend that I add it? 03:42:00 It already says implementations may add types, so I'll just note the NVC types as a reasonable choice. 03:42:14 There are a number of binary file formats that have specified byte orders, which may differ from the platform's. I think it would be a good feature, if it can be added without making the interface too clumsy. 03:42:21 azkane [~ahm@189.236.46.31] has joined #scheme 03:42:39 "Implementations may extend this list with the types given in NumericVectorsCowan or otherwise." 03:42:43 berndj [~berndj@dsl-185-146-61.dynamic.wa.co.za] has joined #scheme 03:42:47 Howzat? 03:47:47 Sounds good. 03:49:51 -!- MiningMarsh is now known as Mining|away 03:54:42 -!- Mining|away [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:55:38 Mining|away [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has joined #scheme 04:09:43 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #scheme 04:11:31 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:25:36 pyro-_ [~pyro@zhaozhou.dcollins.info] has joined #scheme 04:25:36 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #scheme 04:25:48 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 04:25:48 fgudin [fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 04:25:48 joneshf 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has joined #scheme 07:43:48 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.64.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:43:55 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:12 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:55:27 civodul [~user@193.50.110.135] has joined #scheme 07:58:38 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 07:59:18 spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:59:48 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:00:26 -!- arcfide [1000@c-98-223-194-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:01:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:02:44 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:00 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:31:45 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #scheme 08:32:31 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:32:31 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:32:32 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:12 -!- serhart [~serhart@173.171.144.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:44:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 09:05:24 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:05:59 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 09:09:24 kud0h [~kud0h@NATWPA72.wireless.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 09:10:33 What does "C-style" mean in contrast to e.g. SRFI-9 ? 09:12:40 Hrm, reading the page helps .. 09:16:36 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:25:40 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 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[~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:14 I see we prefer `make-foo' for allocating an object and pre-filling it with a given value, and `foo' for providing individual values. (E.g. `make-vector' and `vector'.) Is there any guide-line as to what to use when this distinction doesn't make sense ? E.g. I see jcowan use `make-structure-descriptor' and `structure-descriptor' is not used; wouldn't the shorter one be preferred ? 10:44:50 taylanub: i find myself stripping the `make-' prefix more and more, because in a functional style you initialize the object with its final value (as with `string', `vector', etc.) 10:58:38 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:15 Hey guys, I'm writing a merge sort in Scheme: http://dpaste.org/82evd/ . The current implementation I have sorts a list for numbers just fine, but I need to be able to sort a mixed list. For example: (define x3 '(I can "go" 4 "about" 123 sodas k?)); any help/suggestions would be appreciated. :) 10:59:47 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 11:00:18 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-82.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:34:02 kud0h_: Ask a specific question. 11:35:36 ijp [~user@host86-143-194-187.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:49 I guess I'm just trying to ask about how I could approach sorting different types (symbols, strings, numbers)? 11:43:14 All in one list, I'm trying to find a similar example, but it's been tough. 11:44:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:45:11 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 11:52:24 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:06 kud0h_: Usually you have the user provide the less-than procedure. 11:54:36 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:56:57 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:58:22 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.47] has joined #scheme 12:05:38 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:39 lolcow [~lolcow@105-236-5-36.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:13:46 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105-236-5-36.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:27 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 12:17:38 przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 12:20:56 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #scheme 12:28:31 dgee519 [~dgee519@news.univ.kiev.ua] has joined #scheme 12:41:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:47:48 przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 12:51:31 civodul [~user@193.50.110.135] has joined #scheme 12:54:32 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #scheme 12:59:46 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #scheme 13:01:15 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:02:41 -!- dgee519 [~dgee519@news.univ.kiev.ua] has left #scheme 13:02:47 dgee519 [~dgee519@news.univ.kiev.ua] has joined #scheme 13:03:19 b4283 [~b4283@1-173-97-128.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 13:05:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:42 -!- hopfrog [~user@pool-96-236-222-96.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:54 przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 13:23:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:28:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:33:05 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:36:07 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:43:42 jeapostr1phe [~jay@otherlab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:00:33 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:45 serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:08 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:49 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 14:06:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:10:05 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 14:10:08 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #scheme 14:11:22 przl [~przlrkt@91-64-129-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:13:22 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:43 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 14:20:04 porco [~porco@60.163.221.183] has joined #scheme 14:20:25 Cool, that worked. Thanks. 14:23:06 samth_ [~samth@c-50-138-182-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:25:43 -!- r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:04 -!- qrstuv1 [none@50.122.17.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:32 -!- porco [~porco@60.163.221.183] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 14:27:13 qrstuv [none@50.122.17.254] has joined #scheme 14:28:11 -!- samth [~samth@racket/samth] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:26 spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:30:58 samth [~samth@racket/samth] has joined #scheme 14:34:16 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-237-224.eurotel.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:08 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:25 r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #scheme 14:39:49 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 14:44:51 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:57 rins [~aaron@c-98-216-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:59 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:54 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:11 snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has joined #scheme 14:53:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 14:57:29 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #scheme 15:01:54 Regis__ [~Regis@186.222.62.175] has joined #scheme 15:16:08 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:20 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:22:23 -!- r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:27:38 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #scheme 15:27:57 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:30 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-173-97-128.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:31 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:40:40 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 15:50:55 -!- jeapostr1phe [~jay@otherlab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:52:51 -!- serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:57 Tell me if I'm crazy, I'm inexperienced, but regarding jcowan's numeric vectors and structures, wouldn't it be neat if instead of all this we had 1) vector-descriptor objects that take a type which can be any of the already given NumericVector types, or a vector-descriptor, or a structure-descriptor; and a repetition count, and 2) structure-descriptor objects where the type of each field can be a any of the already given NumericVector 15:57:57 types, or a vector-descriptor, or a structure-descriptor ? 15:58:43 That came out as more of an over-haul than I expected .. I think it would basically cover C's numeric data types, arrays, and structs, though. :P 15:58:56 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #scheme 16:00:24 I guess that'd only leave unions. 16:01:18 Yeah, add a union-descriptor object and make it triple-mutually-recursive (terminology?). 16:02:09 And we've basically re-implemented C's weak typing system ? 16:02:11 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:22 (The casting system, rather. :P) 16:07:16 jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:07:19 -!- jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:07:19 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 16:07:32 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:07:32 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 16:07:32 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 16:08:00 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 16:11:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 16:13:02 Similarly, `vector-ref', `structure-ref', and `union-ref' would all accept some chained representation of references, use the first, and pass the rest to the appropriate next one ... 16:16:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:20 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:48 Or not. 16:28:30 serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:54 But we'd probably want a concise notation instead of the very cumbersome (vector-ref (structure-ref (vector-ref (union-ref ... ...) ...) ...) ...). 16:31:05 -!- huseby [~huseby@gateway/tor-sasl/huseby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:34 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 16:33:42 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #scheme 16:35:14 -!- qrstuv [none@50.122.17.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:39 qrstuv [none@50.122.20.239] has joined #scheme 16:44:40 This is all similar to "typed arrays" aka "buffers and views" in JavaScript, no ? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Typed_arrays 16:45:26 Our buffers being bytevectors and views being these descriptors. 16:47:20 spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:49:48 We might want to unify the vector, structure, and union descriptors in one type of object though, together with the primitive ones mentioned in NumericVectors ? 16:52:07 -!- rins [~aaron@c-98-216-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:02 rins [~aaron@c-98-216-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:57:49 -!- kud0h_ [~kud0h@NATWPA72.wireless.nau.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:42 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:39 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 17:19:40 pnpuff 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[~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:31 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:23 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:52:45 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:53:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.245.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:47 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58:01 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:58:04 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:58:11 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:47 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:28 -!- ijp [~user@host86-143-194-187.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:12:33 ijp` [~user@host86-162-111-106.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:55 arcfide [1000@c-98-223-194-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:56 -!- fogus|gone is now known as `fogus 19:23:29 -!- ijp` [~user@host86-162-111-106.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:23:35 ijp`` [~user@host31-53-168-180.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:24:45 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 19:25:09 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest64371 19:29:11 -!- Guest64371 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:51 -!- ijp`` [~user@host31-53-168-180.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 19:34:31 cky: http://stackoverflow.com/q/14779925/15541 I know you just love to answer these ;p 19:34:37 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 19:35:37 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC77576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:06 -!- serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:15 serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:27 -!- karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:43 karswell` [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:43:26 leppie: :-D 19:44:03 cky: fold would be correct there, right? 19:44:14 Sure. 19:44:22 Probably a right-fold. 19:44:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:33 jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:45:36 -!- jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:36 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 19:45:47 Óscar López does not seem to miss a single Scheme question ;p 19:51:54 leppie: Nope, indeed not. :-) 19:52:05 It's okay though, he and I have totally different styles, so we don't step on each other's toes. 19:52:46 I consider him an important contributor to the Scheme corner of SO, just like eli. :-) 19:52:53 :) 19:53:06 I like that he does not spoonfeed 19:53:12 Indeed. 19:53:15 republican_devil [47683a41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.104.58.65] has joined #scheme 19:53:24 Run and hide! It's Gavino!! 19:53:28 that's why mostly jusy comment on SO lately 19:53:40 s/jusy/just/ 19:53:41 leppie: Hehehe, awwww.... 19:58:01 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:58:13 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 20:02:09 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:04:35 cky: go play with your mutation in the traffic ;p 20:04:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:12 I can't think of a single time i have ever used set-car! 20:05:30 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:38 set-cdr! once when writing reverse! 20:06:01 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:06:47 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-230-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:17 leppie: :-P 20:07:24 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-227-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:26 qrstuv [none@50.122.21.162] has joined #scheme 20:07:35 or I dont really know, it is implemented in C#, ad only used internally 20:07:41 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:07:57 saved a few nanoseconds ;p 20:08:05 -!- qrstuv1 [none@50.122.21.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:08:12 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.47] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:10:26 ;-) 20:14:46 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:15:03 leppie: http://stackoverflow.com/a/14780600/13 20:18:24 scheme!! 20:18:31 Im loving it! 20:18:47 anyone here use scsh instead of bash or perl for sysadmin stuff? 20:18:52 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 20:18:58 -!- republican_devil is now known as gavino_himself 20:19:06 cky: howd you know its me? 20:19:14 I am a great guy. 20:19:17 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest9375 20:19:42 are we allowed to assume the presence of srfi-1 in this solution? 20:19:57 well i guess if we're using fold-right then it's probably there 20:20:02 in here we all hate Scheme, we just hang out because we're forced to use it at work 20:20:15 lol 20:20:35 joh! cky: you got mega rep! 20:21:53 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:23 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 20:23:01 -!- Guest9375 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:23 leppie: :-) 20:23:29 DerGuteMoritz: I wish they would let us use XML instead 20:23:43 yeah, or at least mix in some XML in between 20:23:56 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop` 20:24:00 imagine first class XML literals 20:24:05 XML is so much more enterprise orientated 20:24:29 Regis_ [~Regis@186.222.62.175] has joined #scheme 20:24:37 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 20:24:54 DerGuteMoritz: why imagine? Just use a macro. 20:25:16 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 20:25:46 It would be super easy to import the Clojure libraries, and use defmacro and not bother with this hygiene shit 20:25:59 heh 20:26:21 clojure's defmacro is actually hygienic 20:26:29 You could also FFI into CL 20:26:54 it's just a super annoying way to do hygiene 20:26:56 DerGuteMoritz: I heard they are just working on it, no? 20:27:05 but for breaking it you need to be explicit 20:27:33 -!- Regis__ [~Regis@186.222.62.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:28:09 if you use ` (which is called syntax-quote in Clojure) then all symbols will be fully expanded (i.e. turned into fully qualified symbols) at macro expansion time 20:28:18 I wonder how long it will be before someone writes a half-assed spec for Clojure 20:29:08 e.g.: 20:29:10 user> `(+ (- 10 2)) 20:29:10 (clojure.core/+ (clojure.core/- 10 2)) 20:29:26 but: 20:29:27 user> `(let [foo 1] (+ foo foo)) 20:29:27 (clojure.core/let [user/foo 1] (clojure.core/+ user/foo user/foo)) 20:29:42 which is an error because local variables may not be fully qualified symbols 20:29:45 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:29:53 so you have to do this: 20:29:56 user> `(let [foo# 1] (+ foo# foo#)) 20:29:56 (clojure.core/let [foo__2430__auto__ 1] (clojure.core/+ foo__2430__auto__ foo__2430__auto__)) 20:30:12 ouch! 20:30:21 but that only works per ` 20:30:35 e.g.: 20:30:38 still why is let not implemented as a lambda like scheme? 20:30:38 user> `(foo# ~`foo#) 20:30:39 (foo__2443__auto__ foo__2442__auto__) 20:30:51 ~ is unquote 20:31:04 so you have to be very careful with these auto gensyms 20:31:18 but you still need the extra ` ? 20:31:25 and write crap like that: 20:31:25 user> (let [foo `foo#] `(~foo ~`~foo)) 20:31:25 (foo__2456__auto__ foo__2456__auto__) 20:31:32 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:31:38 yes, you need the ` for the symbol expansion 20:31:41 *leppie* takes up farming 20:32:18 let actually expands to let* which is a primitive in Clojure 20:33:01 again, seems like hardly an issue to let the compiler detect those cases 20:33:27 yeah 20:33:32 see syntax-rules :-) 20:33:33 I can understand letrec/letrec* being primitive for optimization 20:33:36 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:33:40 Do you know why they didn't implement a known hygiene algorithm? 20:33:50 but not trivial expansions 20:34:03 asumu: no idea, not a priority I guess 20:34:52 they are piling on feature upon feature to make it more awesome, asumu (sorry for trolling) 20:35:04 heh 20:35:17 ew isnt clojure java vm? I never wana end up an oracle shop yuck 20:35:19 actually the standard library is quite well thought out 20:35:43 wow gavino_himself actually said something sensible! 20:36:02 he's still in chat-up mode 20:36:21 DerGuteMoritz: yeah, I agree with that, but the quirky syntax makes it odd 20:36:23 gavino prefer smalltalk forth lisp hakell maybe erlang or ada 20:36:26 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 20:36:27 C 20:36:36 leppie: you mean the abundance of data literals? 20:36:37 problem is I dont know a lot 20:37:10 apparently his algorithm is developing self-awareness 20:38:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:22 DerGuteMoritz: mostly with things like conj that does different things with different type of lists/vector (or whatever fancy name they use) 20:39:42 hmmmm 20:39:46 it depends 20:40:02 conj is defined to apply the most efficient "add" operation 20:40:11 _malicious [~malicious@d150.mary-lyon01.swarthmore.edu] has joined #scheme 20:40:13 depending on the data type of the collection 20:40:24 I guess we Schemers are just not used to pervasive polymorphic functions 20:40:35 took me a while to get used to, too 20:40:57 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:27 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #scheme 20:41:58 also the lack of decent error checking/contracts resulting in jvm exceptions 20:42:25 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:42:43 yeah it's pretty CL alike in that regard 20:42:51 especially the nil punning 20:43:06 but then again, those would be acceptable in R7RS 20:43:19 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 20:45:08 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:45:34 but sooner rather than later, someone is going to have to make some kind of spec for clojure. If not, we'll just end up with a lispy functional PHP. 20:45:55 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:14 naaah it's not that terrible 20:46:18 more like a lispy functional Ruby 20:46:22 well most will ignore clojure since its not clisp or sbcl etc done in c 20:46:27 no one wants more java 20:46:31 java n oracle must die 20:47:03 gavino_himself: java has been a great inspiration for people to make much better languages on the jvm 20:47:12 there's also Clojure CLR and ClojureScript 20:47:31 an experimental backend for the ClojureScript compiler exists which targets Gambit 20:47:32 java is evil crap 20:48:05 clojure's userbase definately makes all those things possible 20:48:33 i guess there are more clojure users than all scheme users combined 20:48:52 yeah it's pretty big 20:49:07 it also has quite a few commercial users 20:49:12 a lot of people must really hate Java ;p 20:49:27 indeed! 20:49:32 even scala has what I think a big userbase 20:49:59 http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java 20:50:09 I believe clojure aims more for CL niche 20:50:22 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:50:40 lisp for practice not for research/teaching 20:50:59 dgee519: I think it targets more for those that hate java's verbosity 20:52:20 but then again, I guess conciseness is a big motivator for most new languages 20:53:16 well there are more differences between java and clojure than between scheme and clojure. The benefit Java programmer will get is the interoperability with libs. 20:53:16 For lisp programmer it means an ability to use lisp in practice. However this is all theory never did any clojure. 20:53:32 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD93EB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:53:39 C# seems to strike the balance nicely for me for pratical/profesional programming 20:53:44 for me 20:53:46 dgee519: I can confirm this 20:53:52 oops, I did say that ;p 20:54:01 taylanub [tub@p4FD947B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:13 also I think Scheme can learn (or pillage) a few things from Clojure, e.g. the persistent data structures 20:54:29 persistent maps especially 20:54:35 dgee519: 80% of a langauges learning curve effort is spent on learning the standard libraries 20:55:40 I know the CLR/.NET like the back of my hand, it took many years, and learning another framework like that, just seems like a neverending task to me ;p 20:56:05 the whole problem with scheme is the absence of libs. CL has more, that's why they say it is more suitable for real world applications. 20:57:06 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:57:16 there are web libs for scheme 20:57:18 dgee519: With IronScheme, I dont really have that problem ;p I can just use any .NET lib I want 20:57:23 and web is ultimate connector 20:57:26 so problem gone 20:57:50 well, Scheme has gavino_himself, so problem not quite gone 20:58:01 scheme is also not enterprisey, which means its productive, not something used to gouge clients 20:58:12 OTOH maybe he's written in Scheme, that would be quite a killer app 20:58:13 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #scheme 20:58:22 :) 20:58:23 I am a promoter of functional languages so a benefit not a problem. 20:58:38 viaweb and orbitz in lisp 20:58:42 I am suprised not more 20:58:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:48 very suprised 20:58:54 As a .NET consumer, IronScheme behaves very well, unfortunately it is not quite a first class .NET producer (meaning I can just call Scheme code directly from say C#, F# or VB.NET) 20:59:14 s/meaning I can just/meaning I can't just/ 20:59:31 leppie: seems it would be the same for clojure/Java 20:59:55 siag is awesome 20:59:58 calling Clojure from Java is actually not that hard 21:00:08 although why all word procesors dont use HTML I will never know 21:00:11 You can call Scheme easy, but there is always a level on indirection 21:00:16 s/on/of/ 21:00:22 it's along the lines of RT.ref("some-namespace", "some-var").invoke(...) 21:00:23 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:00:25 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:35 but for Java there are several options: ABCL, scheme, clojure, the last being the most developed 21:00:35 who in the known universe would ever wana be saddled with .net 21:00:36 leppie: ah, of course 21:00:45 there should be law against governmetn using oracle ibm or microsoft 21:00:54 freebsd desktops with iceWM 21:00:59 or hek any bsd 21:01:03 or archlinux 21:01:04 dgee519: Kawa is quite advanced actually! 21:01:06 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:01:07 done 21:01:11 is it? 21:01:11 My scheme interface to .NET is a string and it can be called like: " 21:01:12 do ret on web 21:01:15 rest 21:01:15 oops 21:01:32 "(+ {0} {1})".Eval(1, 2) 21:01:33 <_malicious> are you kidding? leave jvm and .net to govt, let everyone else use good things 21:01:45 I also wana bring up an aolserver and naviserver appp sometime powered by postgresql and or firebird DB 21:02:00 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:02:04 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:02:23 gavino_himself: not webscale, you need mongodb for webscale 21:03:03 add memcache or redis for roflscale 21:03:32 OK, will try clojure just after I finish with some Prolog. 21:03:35 lolz 21:03:37 please 21:03:39 mongoDB 21:03:44 www.prevayler.org 21:03:45 I feel I need to say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs 21:04:09 leppie : not `"(lambda (x y) (+ x y))".Eval(1,2)' ? 21:04:15 now this is the holy grail and I dont know why everyone in scheme lisp etc hasnt jumped on this liek smalltalk n haskell have with acid state and jsut the smalltalk in ram image 21:04:30 dgee519: if you are into prolog you might also want to check out Clojure's core.logic library 21:05:00 logic in ram, with references to blobs on disk, holy grail!!! 21:05:11 update log fast stream to raid 10 disk arary 21:05:17 *ski* doesn't see dgee519 in ##prolog 21:05:20 dump whole image every 2 hours 21:05:31 I have just started Prolog (today) I like what I've seen so far, I will definitely check the library 21:05:32 100s of 1000s query /s 21:05:43 100k write/s on desktop hardware! 21:06:08 ski: that would be: "(lambda (x y) (+ x y))".Eval().Call(1,2) 21:06:56 now that sounds even worse than mongodb 21:07:01 Although, it might not be too difficult to apply non-positional parameters. Woohoo, something new to try ;p thanks 21:07:44 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:07:55 leppie : i mean, why go to the trouble of having these `{0}',`{1}' things ? 21:07:56 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:27 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:36 ski: those are replaced by actual references 21:09:38 http://prevayler.org/ 21:09:46 this is awesome 21:09:47 ski: eg: "(display {0})".Eval("some\"'odd\" shit") <-- no escaping and shit needed 21:09:54 I guess bigtable kinda is same 21:10:00 not sur etho 21:10:03 it can alos be any object 21:11:23 it is not a string replacement, it actually injects the values as psuedo varaibles, and { } is not used in Scheme, so it kinda works out OK ;p 21:12:53 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-200-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:13:00 a bit like prepared SQL statements 21:13:04 another example: "(display {0})".Eval( new object() ) prints # 21:13:11 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 21:13:13 DerGuteMoritz: basically 21:13:45 it just makes interop with CLR types very easy 21:14:07 hm 21:14:13 also prevents 'eval injection' ;p 21:14:56 perhaps i'd prefer something like `"(+ x y)".EvalWith("x",1,"y",2)' 21:16:12 ski: That could be done too, but I would rather do it like: "(+ x y)".Eval( new { x = 1, y = 2 }) :) 21:16:36 that falls under "like" :) 21:16:45 that would transforms to say: (let ((x reftoxvalue)(y reftoyvalue)) (+ x y)) 21:16:54 *ski* nods 21:17:19 which is the same transform the positional parameters use 21:17:31 dammit, now I have another idea! 21:17:39 much work to do tomorrow ;p 21:17:49 i suppose i was mostly annoyed by having to do positional matching 21:17:58 (like in `printf') 21:17:59 apps gavino would like to see in scheme: snmp or other graphing app like graphite, a prevayler implementation or even a copy of smalltalk's magma in scheme, a DNS server, some kinda memcached like web cache, and a web browser to compete with opera and firefox where I can remove unwanted menu items from the right click menu popup, and that recognizes flv and mpg files and sllow me to auto download them like the firefox download 21:18:39 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:13 the problem with the latter (aka x = 1, y = 2) is binding them correctly. I just know hygiene is going to screw me in some way ;p 21:20:24 with positional parameters, you generated the variable and do a simple string replace 21:21:10 i'll have to run a few tests to see if that will work, 80% sure I can make it work ;p 21:21:57 the other 20% failure rate is due to the double digit amount of beers I have consumed already 21:23:45 *ski* initially read "beers" as "deers" 21:24:12 -!- gavino_himself [47683a41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.104.58.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:28:15 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 21:28:56 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop` 21:29:01 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 21:29:08 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest58871 21:29:26 I guess I would also ping timeout if I had to talk so much out of my ass ;p 21:31:19 -!- Guest58871 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:32 maybe we should just reply with horse-ebooks quotes to him in the future 21:38:46 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:39:39 -!- _malicious [~malicious@d150.mary-lyon01.swarthmore.edu] has left #scheme 21:39:47 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 21:39:58 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 21:43:28 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #scheme 21:47:46 leppie: good idea 21:48:17 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:29 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 21:48:30 -!- Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:34 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:51:54 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:13 zacts [d03626d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.38.214] has joined #scheme 21:55:50 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-200-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 21:57:26 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #scheme 22:03:32 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 22:03:47 -!- zacts [d03626d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.38.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:24 hoi hoi 22:04:36 -!- Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:05:25 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 22:07:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF969D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:53 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #scheme 22:14:02 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16:00 Hidy ho. 22:19:04 jcowan: Re. structures, couldn't we just cover all of C's array, struct, and union functionality ? With vector-, struct-, and union-descriptor objects which can all take primitive types and recursively a descriptor object whose type is one of those three ? Too crazy ? 22:19:39 We allow vectors of structs already 22:19:44 Unions, hmmm. 22:20:31 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-22-251.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 22:20:33 We seem to only allow vectors in structs in an ad-hoc way, such that we couldn't in-turn have structs in those vectors. Or am I mistaken ? 22:21:25 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:25 Right, no nested structs (in vectors or not) yet. 22:21:44 There really should be, it just would require better syntax. 22:23:04 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:25:13 BTW, in NumericVectorsCowan, under Conversions, the list->vector shows a `vector' argument which should probably be `list', and a similar mistake is made in the structures page under the same section. (Or am I missing something?) 22:27:03 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:21 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:30:25 -!- serhart [~serhart@173-10-225-9-BusName-WestFlorida.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:53 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-133-188.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:36:18 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:34 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:38:05 Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #scheme 22:39:08 -!- dgee519 [~dgee519@news.univ.kiev.ua] has left #scheme 22:39:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:45 What I had in mind, dumbened down to the bare, is basically this: http://sprunge.us/ZIVF 22:45:01 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:45:16 It would replace the SRFI-4 kind of function masses. 22:46:07 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:46:16 -!- silkwood [8a1a4028@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.64.40] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:46:49 -!- Mining|away is now known as MiningMarsh 22:47:05 The accessor etc. functions are fairly obvious, and if some way to chain accessors (vector indices and field names) were implemented, we'd basically get all of C's functionality with regard to primitive numeric types, arrays, structs, and unions. 22:47:19 -!- MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@199.19.116.207] has quit [Changing host] 22:47:19 MiningMarsh [~MiningMar@unaffiliated/miningmarsh] has joined #scheme 22:47:33 silkwood [8a1a4028@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.64.40] has joined #scheme 22:47:43 Shades of haskell lenses... 22:47:48 Tell me if I'm being ridiculous. 22:47:52 levi: Excuse me ? 22:49:51 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:06 Haskell's native syntax for dealing with nested structure types is awkward, so a number of people worked on 'lens' libraries to make composable getter/setter functions. 22:50:36 And this discussion reminded me of it, that's all. 22:51:11 I see. Also see: Typed arrays aka buffers and "views" in JavaScript. 22:53:42 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:43 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:18 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:56:20 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:58:34 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:57 Black0range [~Black0ran@5-15-165-1.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 23:06:01 Hey guys 23:06:06 whats up :) 23:08:39 With the chance of sounding very stupid I have completely forgot how to set a value in a slot of a list :( can someone help me remember? 23:08:55 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:08:57 -!- emma is now known as em 23:09:53 Black0range: With a slot, do you mean element ? 23:10:15 See SRFI-1. 23:10:21 yes i believe so :) 23:10:40 serhart [~serhart@173.171.144.139] has joined #scheme 23:11:24 Black0range: the searching on google and reading the documentation tells you nothing? 23:13:14 drew: i am not used to googing any question about scheme there isn't a good amount of content about it 23:13:47 -!- silkwood [8a1a4028@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.64.40] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:14:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:39 well, my google search after c/p ing your question and adding "scheme" has the first link that point to set-car! and set-cdr! ... is that not enough to go by? 23:15:02 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:48 drewc: well i see you are right... I am terribly sorry for asking an extremely small question! by your leave your majesty :) 23:17:06 drewc: and thanks! :) 23:17:37 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:19:17 Black0range: having been on the internet longer than google was around, I can tell you that there is no need to be sorry for searching google to find answers to small questions ... in the future, please do not be afraid to try searching.. there are billions of web pages on google ... not as many folks in #scheme :) 23:21:26 dewc: True, but sometimes when staring at a stupid screen for a long time it is a bit more interesting to ask real people. 23:21:49 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6105B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:23:28 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:23:48 Black0range: fair enough, and this is #scheme, so silly questions are not frowned apon. FWIW my answers are mostly the same .. "search google first" and of course, spell folks nicknames correctly. 23:24:53 dlewderp: i do not understand what you are hinting on in that last part! :( 23:25:25 derp derp derp! 23:26:28 ^^ well i will continue on my project. Be well! 23:30:28 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:31:20 Can SRFI-9 records limit the types of their fields ? 23:35:02 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 23:36:52 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:01 taylanub: No, they can't. The usual way of doing so would be to wrap the native constructor and/or setters with your own versions, and then export those from the module instead. 23:38:19 I see, thanks. 23:44:02 The intention is to provide little more than the core operation of named fields you can construct, set, and examine selectively. 23:47:20 (Also a predicate, of course, that's essential.) 23:47:33 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:47:49 I do things like naming a setter "raw-set-foo-bar!" and then providing my own "set-foo-bar!" that imposes whatever invariant I want. 23:53:51 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:56:31 -!- arcfide [1000@c-98-223-194-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:56:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-160-163.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:56:59 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme