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(lambda (x y _) ) 03:49:44 yea 03:50:00 but you can't reuse _ like you can in scala and possibly other languages 03:50:06 (lambda (x _ _ _) ...) 03:51:10 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 03:51:38 ok thanks.. for some reason i thought i remembered reading that it should be two underscores, but i can't remember where 04:00:55 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has left #scheme 04:02:47 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:06:01 -!- mk12 [~mk12@CPE90840de85f38-CM0026f32b7b1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 04:07:03 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD6086F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 04:10:51 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60770.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:13 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:48:34 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 05:22:07 -!- Jayrays [~Jayrays@unaffiliated/jayrays] has 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#scheme 08:09:37 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:21 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-136.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:22:51 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:56 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:28:42 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:37:17 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:43:13 -!- cataska [~user@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:06 cataska [~user@210.64.6.233] has joined #scheme 09:05:36 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:10:31 Holy shit: I just came across a paper that invoked "computational 09:10:31 puissance 09:10:38 ." 09:11:39 That must be von Neumann meets Richard III. 09:20:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:18 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:34:48 -!- lolcow [~lolcow@105-236-244-248.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [] 09:36:53 leppie [~lolcow@105-236-244-248.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:40:06 or translated from French :) 09:42:25 protist [~protist@222.153.223.104] has joined #scheme 09:43:42 If you don't like your language massacred, learn foreign languages to read papers in the original! 09:51:20 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:53:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:58:34 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:09 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 10:19:52 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 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connection] 17:16:19 ecraven: Heh; that occurred to me, too. 17:18:18 The paper is straight outta Karlsruhe; which, like Freiburg, isn't that far from France: . 17:19:18 I wonder if the Karlsruhians let slip the occasional Gallicism. 17:20:11 When I lived in Freiburg, it wasn't uncommon to hear "adieu" instead of tschüss. 17:26:49 tupi [~user@186.205.46.201] has joined #scheme 17:35:26 -!- kuribas [~user@94-227-88-230.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:49:26 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 18:02:09 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 18:03:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:37 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:12:37 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 18:14:33 -!- jrapdx 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:26 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 19:30:30 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:33:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-138.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:37:33 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 19:40:43 -!- spiderweb is now known as pdp11 20:00:44 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-231-104.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 20:06:22 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 20:14:27 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:09 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:22 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:36:43 telemachus [telemachus@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-bfszxzxaareuoalo] has joined #scheme 20:39:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-67.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:41:06 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:05 Well, I have backed myself into a corner with hygienic macros (at least simple ones) and I now have a close up and personal use case for non-hygeienc ones. 20:45:43 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-228-46.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:45:46 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-25-205-171.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:54 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:49:46 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:49 Can `null?' and `pair?' be considered complements of one another; such that, instead of dispatching on `not null?' I can dispatch on `pair?'? 20:55:28 I've been doing that thoughtlessly for a few years, but haven't really considered whether there are any subtle corner cases. 20:58:03 -!- pdp11 is now known as spiderweb 21:04:11 well, they are not compliments of each other, but... what form of failure is ideal on bad data? 21:06:20 tcleval [~funnyguy@177.134.134.40] has joined #scheme 21:08:46 Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:25 tali713: I can't think of a pathological example where either null? or pair? fail; or fail to return something complementary. Can you? 21:22:14 Dabian [~user@fsf/member/dabian] has joined #scheme 21:22:29 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 21:23:51 Er.. surely any non-pair value..? strings, numbers, etc..? 21:28:00 LeoNerd: Of course; which prevents the pair from being complementary in the general case. 21:28:13 I may suck it up and type (not (null? ...)). 21:28:20 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 21:28:37 I wish there were something positive and monosyllabic. 21:29:03 You can also load SRFI 1 and use null-list?, which returns #t on (), #f on a pair, and blows chunks on anything else. 21:29:15 jcowan: Oh, that's interesting; thanks. 21:29:22 "This procedure is recommended as the termination condition for list-processing procedures that are not defined on dotted lists." 21:31:54 klutometis: as LeoNerd said. but I was trying to point out that depending on how much you care, invalid data is going to cause failure /anyways/ so if you only expect cons or null and all else is invalid, then it doesn't matter. (besides the species of failure that will happen when garbage is fed in) 21:33:11 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:33:17 jcowan: oh, nice choice. 21:33:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 21:37:12 So, do you use Eldoc or CEDET or something to write programmes? 21:38:33 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-231-104.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:07 tali713: Right; no, that's a good point. 21:41:50 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:05 I guess I'll just drop it. It's probably not worth the trouble anyhow. 21:47:04 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:47:24 Dabian: A friend of mine that came from the Eclipse world wanted to propagate contextual docs to Scheme; I suggested Eldoc at the time: looked pretty good. 21:48:13 Also look at scheme-complete: . 21:52:39 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 21:54:30 Question: I am creating a little procedural-advice library that is portable R7RS-small. 21:54:58 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:54:58 When you define around-advice, you have to specify a lambda list that includes the cookie that is passed to "super" when you want to call inner-level around advice. 21:55:08 This can be called anything, but what is a good name to recommend in the documentation? 21:55:54 An around method looks like this: (lambda (FOO x y) (+ x y (super FOO x y))). What should FOO be? 21:56:06 that is, what name? 21:57:04 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 21:57:46 jcowan: `anaphoric-around'? 21:58:09 It's not anaphoric, though. 21:58:31 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:58:32 That's true. Simply `around-advice'? 21:58:45 Oh, but you're defining around-advice. 21:58:47 Hmm. 21:59:35 `Around'? Neither apt nor descriptive. 22:00:43 Yeah. On #lisp the best suggestions so far are next-methods (which suggests the implementation) and the very neutral "linkage". 22:02:04 Is it an analogy with `this'? 22:02:13 Very vaguely. 22:02:18 perhaps "more-advice"? 22:02:19 `This' isn't very descriptive, either. 22:02:23 Oh, that's interesting. 22:02:56 As opposed to e.g. `this-advice'? 22:03:23 I guess it could be either. 22:03:33 If it was implemented as "this-advice", then "advice" would be a reasonable name. 22:05:00 -!- Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Do fish get thirsty?] 22:05:01 `Advice' is better than next-methods and linkage, in my opinion; if it's not misleading. 22:08:34 klutometis: Thanks. 22:08:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:32 Since it's a cookie, it should not matter that its value is a list of further around-advice. 22:09:59 klutometis: Is there a webpage on how to get started? 22:10:03 or another doc. 22:12:40 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:13:00 Dabian: Did you look at the Installation section in ? 22:13:35 I haven't used either scheme-complete or eldoc; if you get either one of them working, though, I'd love to hear your experiences. 22:13:50 ahh ok 22:14:06 Well, I guess when you code in scheme, you can do without all that stuff anyhow? 22:15:06 I'm using Chicken, so I find this to be invaluable: . 22:15:26 I just wonder how to get started coding scheme in emacs. I am not sure if I need Stalin or Chicken. 22:15:41 If there's some operation I'm not sure exists, I'll look there; or Google e.g. "srfi shuffle list", "scheme shuffle list." 22:16:01 Stalin!? 22:16:16 Dabian: I've been using Chicken for almost five years (professionally, too); and find it to be a local optimum of feature-rich and stable. 22:16:22 You don't start developing with Stalin. You switch to Stalin when your code is fully debugged and is running too slow in Chicken and Gambit. 22:17:27 jcowan: That's an interesting use-case for Stalin. 22:17:46 What others are there? 22:17:59 I might add: "after you've spent time with the profiler and rewritten tight-loops in C." 22:18:35 Well, perhaps not. C might or might not be practical, depending on what your code does. 22:19:39 That's true; I had a hell of a time doing anything reasonably non-trivial in C when I was writing the Scheme-R bridge in Chicken. 22:19:54 Well, for starters I guess an interpreter might do well? REPL or something? 22:20:04 I might give Stalin a crack next time before I take the plunge into C. 22:24:59 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:51 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:26:06 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 22:26:32 Well, Racket is pretty good for beginners, and has better debugging support than Chicken for sure. 22:34:02 jcowan: Because of its trace facilities? 22:34:25 Oh, this: . 22:34:27 Interesting 22:46:17 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:26 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:04:46 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:05:47 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:46 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:13 klutometis: here is my emacs file http://pastebin.com/SVd3AFZt , I use scheme-complete and 'others' 23:26:50 klutometis: I use gambit-c for most of my code, but this configuration may work with other scheme systems 23:28:47 klutometis: this file needs some clean up , as some packages are now installed from el-get 23:31:40 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m83-190-161-220.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:33:21 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 23:34:34 Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:35:16 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@78.179.210.187] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:35:52 taylanub [~taylanub@78.179.213.241] has joined #scheme 23:36:08 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:41:20 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:25 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:48:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:57:32 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-11-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme