00:01:31 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:32 -!- huseby [~huseby@gateway/tor-sasl/huseby] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:30 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:18:47 -!- tertl3 [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:22:11 tertl3 [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:30 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:25 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 00:35:01 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:36:13 ASau` [~user@46.115.54.12] has joined #scheme 00:39:52 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.105.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:35 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:53 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:53:56 I just feel like with guile that one could put scheme to practical use. 00:54:43 I just don't want to think of scheme as a purely academic language. 00:58:34 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-109-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:57 spiderweb: Who are you trying to convince? 00:59:18 myself 01:00:51 Well, there's nothing wrong with the language itself. If you have the libraries you need or the means to bind them, there shouldn't be anything stopping you. 01:01:16 Might be hard to convince others to join your projects, though. 01:01:20 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kbvtxqxeffbhijtl] has joined #scheme 01:05:55 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:42 -!- acedia [~rage@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:15:50 scheme just feels like ink on a piece of paper to me. it's beautiful. 01:22:05 It is, isn't it. :) 01:28:48 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 01:29:08 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6077C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:34:43 I want to create a metalanguage to describe the music of chopin. 01:35:14 -!- masm1 [~masm@bl17-202-220.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:53:58 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:07:18 -!- jroes [~jroes@jroes.net] has left #scheme 02:11:56 hive-mind [~hivemind@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 02:16:25 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 02:18:18 -!- hive-mind [~hivemind@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:19:25 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 02:22:40 mwolfe [~mwolfe@99-32-248-91.uvs.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:45 -!- mwolfe [~mwolfe@99-32-248-91.uvs.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:49 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme 02:23:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:49 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:34:03 githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-109-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:44:04 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 02:51:20 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:52:50 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 03:06:12 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105-236-244-248.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:08:47 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:10:18 leppie [~lolcow@105-236-244-248.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 03:10:52 you mean "cool" and "boss" aren't enough? 03:13:24 -!- tertl3 [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:17:26 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 03:28:34 tertl3 [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:52 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-190.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:36:55 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 03:57:12 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:03:11 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 04:21:05 acedia [~rage@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 04:21:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:58 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 04:28:17 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 04:32:35 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:47:41 (define (bit n) (shift-left 1 n)) (define (bits n m) (if (< n m) (bits m n) (shift-left (bitwise-not (shift-left -1 (+ 1 (- n m)))) m))) (define (shiftout x mask) (shift-right (bitwise-and x mask) (first-set-bit mask))) (define (shiftin x mask) (bitwise-and mask (shift-left x (first-set-bit mask)))) 04:48:25 Handy. I like those a lot better than the bit-field procedures of SRFI 33. 04:50:08 ,books 04:50:28 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:00 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:52:41 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.249.3] has joined #scheme 04:53:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:03:37 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 05:06:05 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 05:07:03 jlewis [~jlewis@mookmo.net] has joined #scheme 05:10:24 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:10:55 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 05:17:27 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:21:49 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 05:40:21 jewel 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reset by peer] 14:07:13 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:08:26 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-82-104.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:23:03 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-82-104.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 14:24:16 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:34:10 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 14:35:15 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 14:36:46 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #scheme 14:39:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:35 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:50:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-188.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:04:33 I'm halfway into ch2 in SICP, I really like Scheme, but as I understand it Common Lisp is what one should use for any "real" programming project, but of what little CL I've seen it looks a bit ugly compared to schemes beautiful simplicity. Where could I learn how to structure a Scheme code into many different files, or have it use GTK or have Scheme use C-libraries? Or is it Common Lisp that is the preferred choice for these things? 15:05:15 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-6-229.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 15:05:39 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:05:57 Scheme is the specification for a language. Thingsl ike GTK and using C libraries will be part of some particular impleemntation of Scheme 15:06:04 For that you'll have to read that implentation's docs 15:08:11 impaktor: most Scheme implementations have ffis for calling c-functions 15:08:35 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #scheme 15:10:54 tupi [~user@186.205.46.201] has joined #scheme 15:13:23 Cool. I'm using MIT scheme now since that's what the book SICP recommends for the exercises. Which are the most popular or powerful Scheme implementation today? 15:15:13 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 15:15:18 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations 15:15:45 Thank you Commander. 15:16:21 jeapostr1phe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:32 You should have a look at guile, racket, chicken, chibi in an order of your choice 15:16:50 and there are many more 15:18:01 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:18:54 Seems like the Lisp community and all the different dialects and the implementation of these is very scattered. 15:19:41 ijp [~user@host86-162-109-2.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:20:23 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:55 -!- jeapostr1phe is now known as jeapostrophe 15:21:18 well as you have found out, the thing that people hold dear is a language standard and people implement this for their purposes 15:21:43 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:43 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 15:22:46 except that most schemes don't implement it to the standard 15:25:02 Hm, I'd prefer to use some implementation with a large user base (and large developer community), with good interface to C-libraries. 15:25:04 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:25:04 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:25:29 impaktor: racket, chicken or chibi (small user base, nice FFI) 15:25:48 impaktor: I cannot say anything about guile in that regard 15:25:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 15:25:55 MIT/GNU Scheme has a nice FFI :) (not sure about the size of the user base) 15:26:12 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 15:26:12 Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #scheme 15:28:22 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:29 impaktor: indeed. It's very, very fragmented. 15:30:54 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:30:55 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:31:24 well, ask yourselves, when was the last time you wrote and tested scheme code on 2 or more implementations. 15:31:40 yesterday 15:31:49 C-Keen: well, you are an outlier 15:31:59 mine was two weeks ago 15:32:07 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 15:32:07 Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #scheme 15:32:08 what kind of argument is this? 15:32:36 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 15:32:38 C-Keen: I don't believe the average person on this channel has done it this year 15:33:18 Well, on my to do list is to first finish SCIP ch 2&3, then maybe look a bit into Common Lisp and see if I still find it ugly (compared to Scheme). 15:33:36 in general I think the question of which implementation to use is not helpful. Just choose one, by their specs, website, logo, reports and try it. Then make a more educated decision next time you really know your needs 15:35:03 it's like saying "I want teh best implementation with the fastest compiler and the best code generator" without actually specifying what good for you means 15:35:44 I want to use the implementation with no trade-offs! 15:36:07 DerGuteMoritz: that would be....php, it has got it all 15:36:49 C-Keen: that would work much better if revising your decision didn't break all your code 15:37:02 impaktor's point about large developer community is a good one. That makes a difference, IMO. 15:37:29 ijp: it's not like someone drops in here saying "I am learning scheme, what should I use. Then goes off and comes back with thousand lines of code which are not portable at all" 15:38:00 C-Keen: depends. 15:38:09 ijp: well those are outliers then 15:38:12 did they touch the filesystem? 15:38:22 then they probably did 15:38:24 Hmm (top post): http://jscheme.sourceforge.net/jscheme/doc/whatsnew.html 15:38:25 did they use exceptions? 15:38:29 then they probably did 15:38:35 writing practical & portable scheme code is nearly impossible. 15:38:36 did they do binary io? 15:38:37 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:38:38 they probably did 15:38:41 need I go on? 15:39:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:40:44 ijp: so how do you answer the newbie's question of the choice of implementation for their first steps in scheme? 15:40:47 impaktor: are you looking for a Scheme implementation for the JVM? 15:40:50 C-Keen: don't 15:40:54 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.19.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:03 scheme will rip out your heart then feed it to you 15:42:45 DerGuteMoritz: no, not necessarily. I'm more of a C++ person. Just checking what's out there. It would be simpler if the there were fewer to choose among. Damn all this diversity! 15:42:59 good vibes! 15:43:18 Hah.. 15:43:27 As if C and C++ didn't also have many many many implementations 15:43:36 impaktor: heh, indeed! maybe we can help you choose an implementation if you give us an overview of what tasks you want to use it for, roughly? 15:43:51 I am having a deja vu ;) 15:44:05 LeoNerd: Um, I'm just using GNU compiler, and c++11 standard. 15:44:18 Hehe 15:44:35 LeoNerd: the problem isn't the number of implementations, but the inconsistency of them 15:44:51 of course, the number exacerbates it 15:44:52 DerGuteMoritz: I'm playing with the though of (trying) to write a simple pdf-viewer that uses the poppler library. 15:45:02 Well the same could be said for C too 15:45:11 The phrase "gcc-specific" comes to mind :) 15:45:29 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 15:45:38 LeoNerd: btw, "C does it too" is rarely a good answer to anything :) 15:45:46 And the usual ##c line of "well it works for me on my i386 Linux box running gcc" 15:46:41 impaktor: ok that rules out all implementations without an FFI at least heh 15:46:55 yes. 15:48:00 impaktor: do you need gui toolkit bindings? 15:48:15 preferably. 15:48:29 Ok. 15:48:55 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 15:49:08 -!- tupi [~user@186.205.46.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:49:49 I don't know any scheme implementation that provides bindings to poppler. Some implementations provide bindings to gui toolkits, though. 15:51:45 mario-goulart: then maybe I should start in that end. With the GUI. 15:52:27 impaktor: sounds like a good plan. 15:55:00 I guess at least chicken, racket and guile provide bindings to popular toolkits. 16:07:15 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:21 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 16:07:21 la la la 16:44:21 huseby [~huseby@gateway/tor-sasl/huseby] has joined #scheme 16:47:45 graememcc_ [~chatzilla@host86-167-58-87.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:06 -!- graememcc [~chatzilla@host86-150-157-27.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:48:10 -!- graememcc_ is now known as graememcc 16:51:33 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD606C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:59:13 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:20 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 17:05:39 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:17 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6E7C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 17:25:54 amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-99-124-134.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:11 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #scheme 17:26:12 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-171-70.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:26 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 17:34:12 hiroakip [~bjoern.g@ip-5-147-122-136.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 17:36:15 bonch [~bonch@174.137.69.7] has joined #scheme 17:42:51 i've just been playing with bindings to cairo with MIT/GNU Scheme, and it works mostly well ;) never tried poppler though 17:43:44 impaktor, mario-goulart: Re GUI: Racket has a cross-platform GUI library which uses GTK on linux. 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