00:01:47 -!- ijp` [~user@host81-159-127-240.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:02:03 -!- ijp [~user@host31-53-175-169.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:17 ijp` [~user@host81-159-31-146.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:05:54 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:08:50 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-34-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:31 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 00:14:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:15:57 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 00:20:22 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 00:21:48 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 00:22:03 how do you make it typed? 00:22:04 bjz [~brendanza@101.162.214.115] has joined #scheme 00:26:39 ijp` [~user@host86-130-197-24.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:29:01 -!- ijp [~user@host81-159-31-146.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:29:47 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 00:40:30 -!- confab [~confab@64.30.112.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:38 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:26 Fare: I just have it throw an (error) if the type test (e.g. string?, number?) doesn't pass. It may or may not be the best way. I'm not an expert with Scheme. 00:58:40 runtime error? 00:59:04 I guess. 01:16:28 honkfestival [~honkfesti@68.171.71.54] has joined #scheme 01:16:38 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 01:18:43 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:16 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:17 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:27:32 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:49 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:21 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: bedtime. o/] 01:35:34 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@68.171.71.54] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:43:58 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #scheme 01:52:34 cdidd 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[~Deulamco@113.190.238.74] has joined #scheme 11:08:28 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.238.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:53 does scheme's macro system have the same expressive power as lisp's defmacro? 11:09:05 or common lisp I should say 11:09:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-34-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11:46 mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 11:12:22 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.238.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:15:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:15:42 astertronistic: Seems to depend on Scheme version. R4RS uses the same approach as Common Lisp, R5RS seems to be Turing-complete but discourages complicated uses, R6RS allows you to do everything Common Lisp-style and also has more abilities to track the location of human errors built-in and by default gives you hygiene (the second part can be easily done in Common Lisp; the first part seems to be implementation-specific). 11:16:24 Some R5RS Schemes include non-standard extensions 11:17:00 thanks for the info 11:20:04 also, one more thing... 11:20:17 does scheme support something like gensym? 11:20:38 or I guess it tries to encourage a different style 11:20:53 masm [~masm@bl18-34-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:22:11 Well, hygiene by default means that you don't need to use it as often 11:23:00 yeah, but say I wanted to generate a variable name and then do a recursive replace of a given name with the gensym name 11:23:19 and use that as the output of the macro 11:23:47 In some sense, hygiene means that this will happen unless you try hard for this not to happen 11:23:54 Without you using gensym 11:24:08 Most Scheme implementation have something called gensym 11:24:23 hmm 11:24:33 I guess it depends on how the recursive replace is done? 11:24:51 I was thinking of depending on a function 11:25:43 would the recursive replace have to be a part of the macro for it to work with hygiene? 11:27:32 or wait, I think I need to rethink what I'm doing first 11:27:54 Hygiene is done by the macro system on its own 11:28:12 yeah, 11:28:13 But, well, simply calling gensym will work in most popular implementations 11:28:43 cool, yeah, I'm just trying to figure how to get things done using the standard 11:28:56 getting used to the scheme way of doing things after using lisp for a while 11:30:24 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 11:38:07 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-34-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:49 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 11:52:23 masm 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has joined #scheme 18:31:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:36 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:38:29 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #scheme 18:42:59 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-gwawkxdfygnoudln] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:39 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 18:44:07 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 18:53:03 cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-124-88.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:04:15 MichaelRaskin : .. were you claiming that "by default gives you hygiene" "can be easily done in Common Lisp" ? 19:08:14 Yes 19:09:39 (By writing a wrapper around defmacro) 19:11:02 does that only give you automatic `gensym'ing on the fresh identifiers introduced by the macro, or does it also give you the ability to have a macro invocation expand to code including references to unexported identifiers ? 19:14:50 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@123.16.107.211] has joined #scheme 19:15:39 -!- Gmind 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RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.31.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:09:19 -!- slilo [~user@host-94-251-99-133.bbcustomer.zsttk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:51 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-cbnvqhyituplkiwg] has joined #scheme 20:32:32 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 20:33:08 ski: I'm still learning the scheme way of macros, but defmacro is very general 20:40:27 yes, but `defmacro' is unhygienic 20:40:50 imo, it's better to use hygienic macro systems 20:41:33 and if you really want unhygiene in some specific case, many of the hygienic systems still allow you to make such an exception, but still leaving hygiene as the default (which is the sane thing to do, imo) 20:42:45 astertronistic : also, with `gensym' based unhygienic systems, there's the problem of (afaiu) not being able to have a macro expand to unexported identifiers 20:50:00 -!- walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:00:24 I don't know, I often use complex functions to leverage macros 21:01:08 can you still do this with a hygienic macro system? The pattern language seems limited to me. 21:01:19 syntax rules is not the only hygienic macro system 21:02:34 syntax-case/syntax-parse/etc allow using arbitrary scheme code 21:03:26 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:04:12 ER macros don't count since they are morally gensym 21:04:19 gensym+defmacro 21:05:15 sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 21:08:19 thanks for those. I'll check them out 21:09:25 walter|r [~walter@ip-64-134-243-96.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:41 -!- notdan_ is now known as notdan 21:23:57 -!- notdan [~h@zag.zig.io] has quit [Changing host] 21:23:57 notdan [~h@unaffiliated/notdan] has joined #scheme 21:29:35 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 21:33:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 21:33:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:16 honkfestival [~honkfesti@68.171.71.54] has joined #scheme 21:35:32 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-241-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:57 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-226-105.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:13 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:36:58 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-124-88.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:06 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as Ptired 21:41:15 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 21:42:16 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:19 -!- Ptired is now known as kilimanjaro 21:43:41 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:53 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@68.171.71.54] has quit [] 21:57:12 -!- walter|r [~walter@ip-64-134-243-96.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:04:55 jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:04:58 -!- jao [~jao@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:04:58 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 22:11:37 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:38 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 22:21:14 -!- answer_42 [~user@ip82-139-81-70.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:00 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:28:30 -!- Onionnion|Eee [~ryan@adsl-68-254-165-14.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:52 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:44:00 Onionnion|Eee [~ryan@adsl-68-254-160-100.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:54 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:04:35 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.31.207] has joined #scheme 23:13:57 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:14:59 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:15:22 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:29:09 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61ACB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:31:16 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:38:33 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 23:54:54 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.146.148] has joined #scheme