00:02:43 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:09:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:12:32 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-219-40.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:43 jrslepak [~jrslepak@ip-64-134-65-75.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:18 -!- madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:18:53 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61001.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:21:19 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 00:23:41 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 00:24:23 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@19.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:36 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:17 hiyosi [~hiyosi@19.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 00:29:50 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:30:54 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:42 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme 00:34:24 stamourv: Are there any packages that are actively developed? 00:36:15 is that package even necessary? 00:36:34 i worked through some of SICP with racket alone. 00:36:38 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 00:36:46 lang/scheme maybe 00:37:52 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@ip-64-134-65-75.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 00:37:53 ouack: If you run into trouble you can always ask here. 00:39:06 Yeah. Like I'm doing now. 00:39:25 Seriously, nothing better available? 00:39:46 no 00:41:06 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:44:20 nodejs mentality detected 00:55:10 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:23 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:00:08 ouack: What trouble have you run into? 01:01:31 That the package was poorly documented. That emails to whatever support was purported went unanswered. That when I sought assistance here, it was completely unclear what the problem was. 01:02:03 I want to learn Scheme. I'm not particularly interested (yet) in learning how the developer didn't develop his package well. 01:02:19 One language at a time. 01:03:21 ouack, maybe you should payroll the developer to get what you want? 01:03:42 Actually, having seen his package, I think payment would be an insult to my wallet. 01:03:57 I'm not opposed, however, to paying for a well-developed Scheme. 01:04:16 fwiw, MIT 01:04:31 MIT Scheme is the one that they used at MIT to teach that course for about 30 years. 01:04:31 Is there a shareware/software Scheme option available that anyone cares to recommend? 01:05:02 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:05:05 it has an old-school feel in a lot of ways, but it's certainly compatible with the book and has decent debugging. 01:05:15 I've downloaded MIT Scheme. 01:05:22 (and an emacs-like editor based on scheme called edwin) 01:05:31 And you're right, it does look like Windows in the days of DOS. 01:05:51 But it's probably solid. 01:06:00 it's a very old program, that was way ahead of its time. and yes, it's very solid. 01:18:06 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 01:19:00 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:19:38 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:20 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:20:31 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:39 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-92-172.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:46 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 01:42:15 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:17 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:10 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:57:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:02:24 it's got the most emacs-like emacs clone I know of :) 02:03:27 -!- erann [~erann@117.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 02:04:25 mdh` [~user@cpe-76-93-184-178.san.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:07:52 -!- mdh [~user@cpe-76-93-184-178.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:30 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-92-172.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 02:12:16 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 02:13:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:07 ouack: I don't see why you need active development on a package for an ancient textbook. 02:18:48 -!- ympbyc [~ympbyc@p35134-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:22 Also "works with SICP" is orthogonal to "well-developed" implementation. 02:19:32 asumu: I work on a Mac. This means I am used to a certain level of don't-make-me-think when I use applications, programs, packages, etc on my computer. 02:20:05 I don't mind thinking. I taught myself DOS. But I had a manual then, which corresponded to what I typed into the machine. 02:20:26 TBH, Racket's probably a good choice on a Mac since many of the core devs use it and it works "out of the box". 02:20:29 I do mind trying to figure out what the developer meant. 02:20:34 (there are obviously other good choices too) 02:21:13 PLEASE share with me those other good choices. 02:21:30 But working with the particular idiosyncracies of a textbook isn't really the kind of polish you associate with a Mac. :p 02:22:03 What do you mean? 02:22:25 Actually, first, please share with me those other good choices. Then, feel free to share what you meant. 02:26:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:13 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:45:22 "This means I am used to a certain level of don't-make-me-think when I use applications" 02:45:26 hahahahahahahahahah 02:46:16 Don't troll. 02:46:32 sorry, that's just too funny 02:46:46 ouack might be the troll here 02:47:35 he's nailing the entitled computer user spiel 02:47:47 byte me, gremlin 02:48:13 Expecting apps to work isn't "entitled computer user" 02:49:02 I'm sorry. I'm busy. Excuse me if I limit my replies. 02:50:08 new gavino 02:53:22 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:53:44 kvda, you're not being helpful 03:02:47 ouack: You were being very provocative. 03:07:40 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 03:13:37 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 03:24:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@209-6-30-187.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:31:21 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:43:36 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.110.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:11 Euthy: How so? 04:07:49 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:12:08 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 04:14:43 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:16:35 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:36 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:27:33 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 04:38:34 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:39:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 04:51:42 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:59:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.53] has joined #scheme 05:00:25 -!- kandinski [~kandinski@hiperactivo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:39 confab [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:12 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:08:11 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [] 05:08:41 copumpkin [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:08:48 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:09:05 -!- copumpkin is now known as Guest15598 05:09:13 -!- Guest15598 [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:25 pumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 05:10:33 astertronistic [~astertron@70.181.247.103] has joined #scheme 05:11:36 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:49 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 05:13:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:45 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:17:01 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35:36 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:25 Since sjamaan ported SCSH process notation to Chicken (http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/scsh-process), I've been playing around again with using Scheme as a shell. 05:40:32 The main thing I miss is paredit, though. 05:40:57 Does anyone have a creative mechanism for a readline-like paredit library that does structural editing? 05:41:06 Short of making emacs the shell, of course. 05:41:52 ouack_ [~ouack@24.39.127.3] has joined #scheme 05:44:28 superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 05:45:29 -!- ouack [~nineteen9@24.39.127.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:45:30 -!- ouack_ is now known as ouack 05:46:59 What's wrong with using Emacs? 05:51:28 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:53:15 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.75.129] has joined #scheme 05:56:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.75.129] has quit [Changing host] 05:56:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 06:00:42 Riastradh: You're right; while not quite as lightweight as screen + shell, emacs has a superset of screen + shell's features. 06:00:47 Maybe it's time to go all-in. 06:06:43 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 06:08:00 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:13:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 06:15:06 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:15:06 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:22:07 -!- SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:16 -!- superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:23:09 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 06:27:42 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:33:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:11 -!- ouack [~ouack@24.39.127.3] has quit [Quit: ouack] 06:42:54 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:29 superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 06:54:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:57:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:26 -!- hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:15:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.126] has joined #scheme 07:15:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.126] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 07:17:28 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: ( -__-)] 07:21:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:42:34 jxriddle [~jxriddle@ip-69-27-56-138.slm.blueriver.net] has joined #scheme 07:50:05 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:04:53 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:06:47 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:08:28 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 08:12:37 civodul [~user@193.50.110.68] has joined #scheme 08:46:54 I'm using OS X at work since a year now and it still didn't change my opinion on that whenever a system tries to be user-friendly and shiny, it will end up bug-ridden. 08:47:21 Sometimes the Finder application won't let me copy or remove files while cp(1) and rm(1) will work. What the hell ? 08:47:29 (On NFS, etc..) 08:48:44 And Xcode is a steaming pile of ... 08:49:58 But overall OS X is "acceptable" or up. (I'm trying hard to be objective, don't know if I succeed.) 08:52:50 In the end, nothing beats a tool that lets the user learn and play with its internals (and has good internals to begin with). 09:02:34 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:08 taylanub: The great hacker exodus to OS Ten always confused me a little. 09:04:14 Then again, I'm a ratpoison-outlier. 09:04:41 Just like Linus, I use the hardware; but abjure the fucking software. 09:05:51 http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/19/an-interview-with-millenium-technology-prize-finalist-linus-torvalds/ 09:05:51 http://tinyurl.com/bpc66ux 09:07:02 klutometis: you stayed on ratpoison? 09:07:24 *MichaelRaskin* have migrated to StumpWM 09:10:50 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 09:11:31 *taylanub* uses ratpoison with about 4 keybindings ever used: list windows, switch between current and former window, switch to next window (for when I happen to have a third, which is very rare), and open command prompt (for anything else, which is rare) 09:28:34 MichaelRaskin: Yeah, I feel a little anachronistic; what compelled you to switch, by the way: Lisp, novelty, something else? 09:30:04 I scripted ratpoison so heavily that synchronization in such scripts became hard 09:30:25 And simply writing these things in Common Lisp and running this inside WM was a simplification 09:30:35 Interesting; what sort of things were you doing? 09:31:08 Well, even auto-splitting of frames and moving windows is complex enough beyond some amount 09:31:31 Sorry, auto-splitting? 09:31:33 Currently I use tag-based window management that I implemented on top os StumpWM 09:31:51 I see; to automatically create consistent layouts? 09:31:56 Yes 09:32:06 I use modeline-like xterm with a lot of data 09:32:27 And I want to place it automatically 09:32:53 Also, I sometimes need a Gimp layout or Lazarus layout.. 09:34:16 MichaelRaskin: Speaking of which, have you heard of the single-window Gimp? http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.8.html 09:34:20 Plays nicer with tiling WMs. 09:34:41 I heard of it, but I don't want this 09:35:36 Once you have some WM configuration scripted, it is always simply to tune it than make Gimp layout itself to your taste 09:35:58 klutometis: that's nice 09:36:45 Anyway, I've been using ratpoison for over half a decade; and never felt compiled to customize it beyond a few trivial key-bindings to web-browser and xterm. 09:37:09 I wonder if StumpWM has anything to offer; or whether I'm missing out somehow. 09:38:05 klutometis: how many windows do you have open at once? 09:38:42 MichaelRaskin: One or at most two (browser + xterm); but up to eight emacs buffers. 09:39:05 Within xterm, there may be eight or so screens. 09:39:17 (And nested, at that.) 09:40:16 It seems like between emacs buffers, screens and browser tabs; there's not much else I need. Gimp is seldom. 09:41:22 -!- jxriddle [~jxriddle@ip-69-27-56-138.slm.blueriver.net] has left #scheme 09:42:00 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:40 klutometis: then you don't need anything ratpoison, I agree 09:43:32 I have a few IM windows, multiple terminals with screen in each, one browser window per page and a few windows that simply stream status data in the bottom of screen 09:43:43 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:44:00 All in all, full window list usually has 10-20 entries 09:44:06 MichaelRaskin: considered bitlbee for IM ? :) 09:44:39 surrounder: Good call! That thing is godsend: gchat over irssi + bitlbee. 09:44:55 yeah I love it 09:45:20 I have facebook and MSN through the ZNC bouncer in ERC and on my phone (andchat) 09:45:51 surrounder: I previously used bitlbee 09:46:01 MichaelRaskin: That's a clever use of status. It's true that I've ruthlessly simplified my environment to minimize the number of necessary windows. 09:46:56 I have separate windows for currently-open IRC rooms (actual connections are now command-line ii instances) 09:47:04 And I have some native XMPP GUI client open 09:47:13 hah nice 09:47:17 ii is... interesting 09:47:21 They have better UI for discovery and room management 09:47:33 surrounder: ZNC bouncer looks pretty good; it acts like a proxy, then, that you connect to from e.g. android? 09:48:07 klutometis: indeed :) 09:48:23 klutometis: and you can control it through irc and/or through a webinterface 09:48:53 surrounder: That's brilliant; I have an always-on irssi that I connect to through screen, but I was at a loss as to how to join it from the phone (ssh on the phone is awkward). 09:49:19 surrounder: actually, ii is less strange than my email setup 09:49:54 (Which is one of status streams in my bottom xterm) 09:50:05 masm [~masm@bl6-168-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:52:01 klutometis: aye, I agree - something native is much nicer on the phone 09:52:10 also with completion and all 09:52:29 MichaelRaskin: what kind of email setup do you have? and how do you use ii ? 09:53:02 I launch/stop ii by the same scripts that set me onine/offline in XMPP 09:54:15 And for email I have fdm download all my mail from all accounts into separate maildirs, parse the email files, index them in PostgreSQL and view them using a FUSE-based virtual filesystem (written in Common Lisp by me) 09:54:20 surrounder: ZNC plays nicely with bitlbee, by the way? 09:54:33 MichaelRaskin: hah, that sounds awesome 09:54:43 klutometis: yup, works like a charm :) 09:54:56 Vim binding to go to next email thinks that it just deletes the file; actually it is translated into marking the message as read in the DB 09:55:20 MichaelRaskin: Sounds cool; isn't it a case of over-engineering, though? 09:55:24 hmmm 09:55:53 Well, writing CL-Fuse was just fun and interesting (and I did it for another reason). 09:56:20 Then it is the result of co-evolving something together with my habits 09:56:26 I can see that; I love "unnecessary" but interesting side-projects. 09:57:00 yeah that setup sounds awesome 09:57:06 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #scheme 09:57:14 After I had CL-Fuse and QueryFS on top of it, I still used Thunderbird for some time 09:57:52 But its inability not to lose the list of what it has downloaded on ENOSPC annoyed me too much 09:58:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:59:20 Note that once I take QueryFS for granted, using it for reading emails doesn't require that much code. 09:59:42 More or less it is less overengineered than Thunderbird itself 09:59:48 surrounder: You mentioned facebook over IRC; are you using bitlbee for that, too? 09:59:55 klutometis: yes 10:00:07 klutometis: http://wiki.bitlbee.org/HowtoFacebook 10:00:09 Damn; never knew that existed. Thanks! 10:00:17 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:00:36 np :) 10:02:45 madmuppet [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:04:11 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:04:40 I have written a procedure to find square roots .. I want to use (root number number) for complex numbers instead of using a list .. how would I do that? my work so far is at http://pastebin.com/0frg09bp 10:05:34 -!- snoopyth` [~user@95.149.8.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:54 -!- taylanub [tub@79.217.47.142] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:07:08 taylanub [tub@p4FD92AE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:07:54 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #scheme 10:10:58 -!- kniu [~kniu@c-67-160-8-163.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:42 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:38 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 10:53:20 -!- madmuppet [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:55:25 acieroid` 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[~amoe@host-92-26-170-77.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 16:21:05 Singleton [57e08705@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.224.135.5] has joined #scheme 16:21:48 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-96-226-187.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:45 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24:13 -!- singletone [57e08705@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.224.135.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:24 DragonForce [d4c14d2b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.193.77.43] has joined #scheme 16:27:10 hi 16:27:20 who is here? 16:27:31 -!- cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:28:28 ouack [~ouack@24.39.127.3] has joined #scheme 16:29:03 What's a good scheme app for SICP? 16:29:43 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-80-235.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:10 MIT Scheme ? I think any should do, actually. 16:30:19 what lisp better than other languages, if you use it for practical purposes. as language lisp very powerful, but in usability and performance, it loses to other languages. so why use it to this day? 16:30:39 MIT Scheme is not doing nicely. Anything else? 16:30:44 DragonForce: Lisp is a family of programming languages, it's not a single language. 16:30:54 ouack: Oh .. Maybe Racket then ? 16:31:02 Anything else available? 16:31:07 ok, scheme 16:31:48 ouack: What problem(s) did you run into with MIT Scheme and Racket? 16:31:49 DragonForce: Scheme's standard doesn't define enough things to make it practical for day-to-day programming for anyone, so there's a lot of implementations with additional features. So in a way, still not one language. :) 16:32:10 mark_weaver: Let's start with what other Scheme apps are available for the Mac. 16:32:19 ouack: Ugh, Guile. Chicken too. 16:32:48 DragonForce: I find Racket to be more usable than pretty much any other language I've seen. Tastes differ, everyone has their own favorite language. 16:33:02 ouack: if I don't know what's wrong with the ones we've recommended, it's hard to know where to point you. 16:33:22 DragonForce: And yeah, some scheme implementations are faster than other scripting languages like Perl, Python, Ruby, ... 16:33:29 mark_weaver: Point me to a list of Scheme apps for the Mac. 16:33:38 And I don't know what you mean with "usability." 16:33:46 taylanub: Tx. Googling those. 16:34:01 ouack: I doubt guile works fine on OS X actually. 16:34:11 I read your line mentioning Mac later. 16:35:34 ouack: Did you google for "scheme for os x" in first place, by the way ? 16:36:10 taylanub: actually i'm goggling 'mac sicp chicken' but i'll try your search. 16:36:29 I don't think the SICP bit will help with the search. 16:36:53 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 16:37:01 -!- DragonForce [d4c14d2b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.193.77.43] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:37:09 ouack, you could always use Racket along with Neil Van Dyke's SICP support library: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 16:37:47 By the way, in my experience, most software-development related issues are solved by using a GNU+Linux distribution. 16:38:47 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-80-235.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 16:39:11 Interesting. In my experience, most software-development related issues are solved by developing software. ;-) 16:39:26 I meant tool support etc. :P 16:39:49 "Issues related to software for developing software." 16:39:51 I'm not sure my answer changes, but yes I'm being intentionally silly. 16:40:01 OK :P 16:41:01 Generally, when one has time to learn and "live" with their system, I'm strongly inclined to believe that today's free software provides a vastly superior environment than either of MS Windows and OS X. 16:42:12 When software tries to take too much responsibility off the user, things start getting very frustrating. 16:42:23 I switched from Linux to OS X about 8 years ago and haven't looked back, personally. But I understand that Linux these days is better than it used to be, so I don't know if I'd make the same switch now. 16:42:54 Oh yeah, I only started with Unixy things 2 years ago, and only ever hear horror stories about the past. :) 16:43:27 taylanub: While I agree that Linux is great, people have good reasons for using Macs and ideally languages should work well on all platforms. 16:43:40 OS X has all the Unixy things I need. I know some people miss package management, but I guess I live in Racketland enough I don't need much else. 16:45:08 If I used OS X, I would still only ever switch between an Emacs and a Conkeror window. So OpenBSD with Xorg and ratpoison fulfil that purpose just as well. :D 16:47:48 (My switch to OpenBSD (on a ThinkPad T61) was mostly a curious experiment, but I've found it surprisingly effortless to get up and running. It's not entirely unproblematic though, the lack of ported software ..) 16:48:06 *taylanub* gotta run 16:51:43 -!- Singleton [57e08705@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.224.135.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:52:16 -!- mdh` [~user@cpe-76-93-184-178.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:55 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:02:10 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 17:03:33 ouack: The thing I'm finding increasingly annoying about you is that you demand help from us, but you refuse to answer our questions (e.g. what's wrong with MIT Scheme and Racket?). We are not your paid support staff. This is a social chat room. It should be a two way street. 17:04:12 It would be helpful to *us* to know you don't like about those implementations, so that maybe we could get those problems fixed. 17:05:04 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:05:27 mark_weaver: The thing I find most annoying about you guys is that I keep telling you and I keep getting the same damn recommendations. As for getting the problems "fixed", Mac users have been doing SICP for years now and asking the same questions over and over again. If the developers/creators were interested in fixing their apps, they would have done so way before. 17:05:52 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-139-45.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:06:36 Seriously, mark_weaver, I can appreciate that you want to get under the hood of all this, but I'm uninterested in having you guys hold my hand with this. I just want a Scheme app for the Mac that works "out of the box" so that I can get on with completing the SICP. 17:06:38 What's broken? 17:06:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:07:58 I'm completely uninterested in visiting this room every few seconds and asking you people questions that I may or may not get answers to when my goal is to complete the SICP, not learn what the fugulah some dinky developer meant to accomplish when he or she built a leaky Scheme boat. 17:08:59 And if you can't answer what's a decent don't-make-think-Scheme app for the Mac that doesn't have me running to Scheme IRC room every five seconds, why the HELL would I want a crappy Scheme app that's going to have me asking you guys questions more complex than that? 17:10:39 The problem is you. 17:10:42 Most of this stuff wasn't written to be a Mac application with the Apple HIG close at hand, I'm afraid, and there's probably nobody paid to make it look like that. Is there something particular that's broken? 17:10:47 IronScheme cannot run on a Mac due a bug in Mono. Please accept my apology. In the mean time, it runs just fine, albeit very slowly, on RaspberryPi. 17:11:37 huseby [~huseby@home.husebyhome.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:38 ouack: The sum total of what I've seen you write about MIT scheme is: (1) "you're right, it does look like Windows in the days of DOS." and (2) "MIT Scheme is not doing nicely." 17:11:56 have I missed anything? 17:12:35 mark_weaver: The only thing I'm interested in hearing is Scheme apps for the Mac which just work. That's the only question on the table. You need more information to point me to a list, I'm sorry, I don't have that for you. I'm goggling for answers to my questions. 17:12:51 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:13:21 No one knows your definition of "just works". 17:14:23 ouack: if you don't tell us what's wrong, we can't help you. but I guess that if Racket and MIT Scheme are not to your liking, there's probably nothing that exists that will satisfy you. 17:14:39 mark_weaver: Thanks. I got that. I'm on Google. 17:14:43 (but that's only a guess, since you've given me no information) 17:15:35 and frankly, you are extremely unpleasant to interact with. 17:16:05 Ahhh, that illusive magical scheme 17:17:04 -!- masm [~masm@bl6-168-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:19:51 cibs [~cibs@219.87.142.18] has joined #scheme 17:20:13 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@70.181.247.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:28:55 whiteline [~user@unaffiliated/whiteline] has joined #scheme 17:29:22 hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:36:33 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:08 taylanub: Out of curiosity, why Conkeror? 17:41:22 Oh, they're gone. :P 17:42:46 kbs [~user@ip-64-134-223-160.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:55 `youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:46:15 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:30 nassepossu [topik@kapsi.fi] has joined #scheme 17:48:17 amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-99-124-234.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:57 Gmind [~Deulamco@123.16.227.76] has joined #scheme 17:49:32 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:49:42 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:50:43 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@123.16.227.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:22 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-170-77.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:09 -!- CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 17:53:01 -!- `youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: brb.] 17:54:11 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-99-124-234.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:22 `youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:56:17 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:56:17 amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-161-163.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:33 masm [~masm@bl17-203-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:05:57 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-80-235.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:41 The most emacs-like .. 18:16:47 Or isn't it ? 18:17:17 Viaken: And I stopped caring too much about the browser I use, since I realized that all browsers are bound to suck because the WWW itself sucks. 18:18:36 I haven't looked at it in ages. 18:20:55 -!- mark_weaver [~user@209-6-91-212.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:21:07 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-56-58.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:25:27 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-203-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:02 erann [~erann@178.Red-79-154-75.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:41:02 masm [~masm@bl17-203-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:46:25 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD607D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:46:46 SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has joined #scheme 18:49:27 taylanub: I used to use conkeror, but I switched to pentadactyl with emacs keybindings. 18:49:49 It's closer to stock firefox, which makes a lot of things easier. 18:54:51 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 18:56:52 -!- kbs [~user@ip-64-134-223-160.public.wayport.net] has left #scheme 18:58:07 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-56-58.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:05 ijp [~user@host86-151-79-53.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:43 ijp` [~user@host81-159-200-56.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:56 -!- ijp [~user@host86-151-79-53.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:58 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 19:10:01 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #scheme 19:15:06 -!- ijp [~user@host81-159-200-56.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:51 -!- mario-goulart [~user@wkit.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:16 mario-goulart [~user@wkit.com.br] has joined #scheme 19:27:03 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:39 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:52:26 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-102-77-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:32 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:58:13 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-203-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:54 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@209-6-30-187.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:02:33 ijp [~user@host86-128-178-106.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:11:02 -!- hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:15 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 20:18:38 Christ, I think I'm going to have to commit to a weekly re-reading of the zsh manual; specifically, the part on zle. 20:19:23 One of the side-effects of being a shell/paredit amateur wizard, though, is that people are distracted by your dynamic composition-fu when doing live coding demos. 20:20:33 heh 20:20:57 Humanity reminds me of a congregation of moths, occasionally; each attracted to shiny things. 20:21:22 (Myself included) 20:25:54 One's apt to miss gems like `infer-next-history'. 20:26:20 rudybot: do you like shiny things? 20:26:20 ijp: Something like this: coat: { dull, shiny } color: { red, yellow, brown } gender: { male, female } bark: { loud, soft } 20:26:37 a no would suffice 20:30:03 -!- `youlysses is now known as youlysses-laptop 20:30:53 It just occured to me that zle could be painfully (or not-so-painfully?) extended with widgets to resemble paredit. 20:31:02 Question is whether zle is as separable as readline. 20:31:13 If that were the case, I'd gladly use Chicken as a shell. 20:31:52 Never mind: . 20:33:12 -!- nassepossu [topik@kapsi.fi] has left #scheme 20:35:42 On the other hand: . 20:35:42 http://tinyurl.com/ar4vuhm 20:40:12 masm [~masm@bl17-203-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 20:40:23 -!- erann [~erann@178.Red-79-154-75.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:40:28 erann [~erann@225.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:45:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:23 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:46:52 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:07 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 20:48:22 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:50:21 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-102-77-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:39 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:56:54 Is anyone up for translating paredit into ZLE? 20:57:04 Bueller? . . . Bueller? . . . 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