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joined #scheme 06:05:43 rahul_ [~rahul@59.178.156.23] has joined #scheme 06:15:24 -!- tessier_ is now known as tessier 06:32:06 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:44:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-108-28-107-227.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:49:21 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 06:50:05 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:15 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:12:40 pjb`` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 07:13:04 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:12 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:25:06 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-42-64.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 07:33:04 mmc [~michal@178-85-68-252.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 07:34:49 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.210.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:42:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:43:42 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-213.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 07:52:02 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:52:25 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 07:59:11 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 08:01:06 is slime able to handle a user-defined repl within the slime repl? 08:01:30 e.g. a function like (define (do-scheme) (define (toplevel) (display "scheme> ") (display (eval (read) user-initial-environment)) (newline) (toplevel)) (toplevel)) 08:01:40 in mit scheme it's hanging on (read) 08:07:12 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61053.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:12:38 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:24:51 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27:45 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-219-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:39:25 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:45:45 this is working for me 08:45:48 (define (t) (display ">>>") (display (eval (read))) (newline) (t)) 08:46:26 What type of terminal are you using? 08:48:37 I'm going through the repl buffer in slime 08:48:51 it works fine from a standard terminal 08:50:28 I see 08:50:33 sorry I haven't used it 08:58:30 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:59:53 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 09:09:37 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 09:31:14 Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-228-136.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 09:34:43 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-228-136.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:38:11 -!- Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-228-136.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:38:33 Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-193-46.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 09:40:19 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 09:41:52 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:52:49 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:53:21 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 10:04:34 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD94FE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:04:50 taylanub [tub@p4FD948D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:06:53 -!- Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-193-46.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:07:33 impaktor` [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has joined #scheme 10:07:55 -!- impaktor [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:20 fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 10:20:36 hi all, I am getting `Unbound variable: truncate-quotient` in Guile. Do I need to do something to get this procedure in scope? 10:22:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:32:05 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61053.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:33:56 -!- rahul_ [~rahul@59.178.156.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:22 Vinnipeg [~konstanti@83.149.21.61] has joined #scheme 10:50:10 -!- fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #scheme 10:50:15 -!- hiroaki_ [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-227-230.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:18 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme 10:56:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 10:56:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:02:59 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 11:07:07 rmathews [~roshan@117.193.223.8] has joined #scheme 11:09:32 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:34:52 Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-193-46.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:53:03 -!- Sorella__ is now known as Sorella 11:53:27 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:01:25 -!- Vinnipeg [~konstanti@83.149.21.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05:18 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:03 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 12:08:19 superjud1e [~mjl@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:10:55 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:55 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:56 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:10:57 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-251-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:06 SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:11:18 pothos [~pothos@114-36-251-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:12:06 Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #scheme 12:14:02 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:14:27 hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 12:18:15 -!- troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:20:30 troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has joined #scheme 12:27:15 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 12:33:22 jao1 [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:33:36 -!- jao1 is now known as jao 12:33:37 -!- jao [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:33:37 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 12:36:19 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 12:37:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 12:42:47 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 12:45:23 bhrgunatha [~chatzilla@1-168-86-1.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:49:57 -!- jao is now known as jao1 12:50:15 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:20 -!- bhrgunatha [~chatzilla@1-168-86-1.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 19.0a1/20121019030551]] 12:50:47 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 12:50:55 -!- jao1 is now known as jao 12:55:45 masm [~masm@95.69.41.189] has joined #scheme 13:01:20 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02:35 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 13:25:24 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 13:30:18 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 13:30:19 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:19 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 13:34:05 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:35:23 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.26.241] has joined #scheme 13:37:41 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:37:54 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:40 hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 13:42:44 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-30-29.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:43:32 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-68-252.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:54:01 atomx [~user@92.86.77.99] has joined #scheme 13:54:37 I have a file x.scm, and I want to import only 1 function from this file into a file y.scm 13:54:41 how can I do it ? 13:54:46 in drracket 14:01:26 got it 14:01:28 sorry 14:02:09 I hate drracket 14:02:28 but in emacs I cannot use the debugging -- I do not knwo how 14:02:37 is it possible to do it in emacs? 14:03:31 dzhus89 [~dzhus@0895917169.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:05:14 pnpuff` [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 14:05:16 SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has joined #scheme 14:05:29 -!- pnpuff` [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #scheme 14:05:30 yes 14:05:39 you can use run-scheme 14:05:48 and set (setq scheme-program-name "chibi-scheme -mchibi.repl -e(repl)") 14:06:00 I am using chibi-scheme, you should set it to racket 14:08:03 jaaso: and how to debug nicely ? 14:08:11 I did not find a good debugger 14:08:14 this is my problem 14:08:26 mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has joined #scheme 14:10:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-106.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:12:30 How can I create a formatted string ? 14:12:39 (format "=> %d" 10) 14:12:44 this does not work 14:12:55 (format nil......) 14:16:12 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 14:17:37 (format '() "=> %d" 10) 14:17:38 . . format: contract violation 14:26:10 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.223.8] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:27:43 bro_grammer [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:45 sizz_ [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:58 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:09 -!- sizz [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:37 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 14:41:50 fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 14:47:03 I'm having trouble understanding function composition. I've answered 1.41 correctly from http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-12.html However, I am confused why applying the doubling procedure seems to square the number of times the input function is applied. Using rules of function composition, I would have expected the number of applications to double at each iteration. Anyone able to help explain this? 14:47:42 atomx: you don't really need a debugger. If you need a debugger, you've already lost. 14:48:05 atomx: develop programs bottom up, with constant test and integration. 14:48:07 Use assertions. 14:48:40 In the worst case, you can trace the program. 14:49:41 atomx: it's hard to tell you how to use format, there's such function in r5rs. format will necessarily be implemented dependant (unless it has been added to r7rs, but then, not all implementations are r7rs already). 14:50:05 ^ my code http://pastie.org/5089109 14:50:40 (double 1+) == 2+ right? 14:51:06 pjb: I definitely hope so! 14:51:30 Now simply by substituting: (double double) == (lambda (x) (double (double x))) 14:51:48 pjb: yup, that explains the 4. but try the next substitution 14:51:52 In ((double double) 1+), x is bound to 1+, a function. 14:52:05 So (double (double 1+) = (double 2+) = 4+ 14:52:17 pjb: yup, get that. next line is the confusing bit. 14:52:51 And in (double (double double)) x is (double double) == (lambda (z) (double (double z))) 14:53:43 so (double (double double)) = (lambda (x) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) x))) 14:54:05 pjb: ok, this may be where I am not quite up to speed with substitution 14:54:19 and ((lambda (x) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) x))) 1+) == ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) 1+)) 14:54:40 ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) 1+)) == ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) (double (double 1+))) 14:55:00 ((lambda (z) (double (double z))) (double (double 1+))) == (double (double (double (double 1+)))) 14:55:09 pjb: actually, that's exactly what I thought. 14:55:13 Good. 14:55:18 (double 1+) = 2+ 14:55:24 (double (double 1+)) = 4+ 14:55:37 (double (double (double 1+))) = 8+ 14:55:44 (double (double (double (double 1+)))) = 16+ 14:55:48 pjb: oh no, wait, it's not exactly as I thought. You have an extra one. I think I need to sit down and work through the substitutions. 14:55:57 pjb: thanks! 14:56:03 -!- dzhus89 [~dzhus@0895917169.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:07 fommil: yes, just rename the bound variables to avoid confusion. 14:56:49 dzhus89 [~dzhus@0895917169.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:57:50 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:59:27 pjb: OK, I get it now  thanks for that! I should have known it would be to do with substitution. This is completely contrary to what I would have expected given that it looks so much like function composition. A good warning. 15:00:07 It is function composition, but it's different when you apply it to a function than to a normal object. 15:01:35 -!- SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:02:55 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 15:04:16 pjb: it expands to function composition, but the double procedure is a complete misnomer 15:04:32 crundar [Jason@2001:18e8:2:28a6:fc9b:2cc7:b5ca:88c1] has joined #scheme 15:07:20 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 15:14:08 pjb: is there a name for the original kind of ordering of the procedure calls? 15:14:24 hiroaki_ [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-227-230.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 15:15:14 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:14 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:18:00 -!- dzhus89 [~dzhus@0895917169.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:05 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:20:05 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-116-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:20:51 pjb: can one go so far as to say that function composition is not associative in scheme? 15:22:14 -!- masm [~masm@95.69.41.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:23:09 pjb: what we've seen here is essentially that (dd)df != d(dd)f 15:23:26 doesn't that depend on what the functions do ? 15:23:51 hrm, ignore that 15:26:10 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:16 no function composition is associative (in mathematics). Maybe it is not so in computer science. 15:26:39 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 15:27:39 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:00 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 15:28:23 SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has joined #scheme 15:30:01 -!- SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:11 SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.184] has joined #scheme 15:38:24 isn't lambda composition left-associative? 15:38:25 masm [~masm@188.140.67.75] has joined #scheme 15:38:41 answer_42: what does that mean? 15:39:59 that it isn't associative, and that ddd=((dd)d) != (d(d(d)) 15:40:16 answer_42: ash, so when grouped in left-associative ordering everything works as expected? 15:40:36 I don't know what you expect... 15:41:47 answer_42: ok, this is very interesting. in mathematics, it simply is not called function composition if it is not associative. 15:42:04 answer_42: perhaps the comp sci definitions are a bit looser 15:43:08 hm, I'm not sure, but I think what you are looking for is lambda application and not function composition. 15:44:33 answer_42: yeah, I think that's right. The book I'm reading is perhaps just being sloppy. 15:45:00 or they just use different definitions than I do ;) 15:45:17 fommil: well, fogoh = (fog)oh = fo(goh) since it's (f (g (h x))). 15:45:38 The problem is that ((f g) (h x)) and (f ((g h) x)) are not the same thing. 15:45:48 pjb: exactly, they are not composition. 15:46:02 pjb: but if one actually composes functions correctly, then the rules are adhered to. 15:46:31 It's f(g)oh vs. f(goh) 15:46:37 Here, f is a higher order function. 15:46:39 are abstractions in the lambda calculus not the same as functions otherwise in maths ? ("implemented" differently) 15:47:07 fommil: that was the purpose of the exercise, I guess, to show a high order function. 15:47:13 or is the set theoretical definition the only accepted one for functions in maths ? 15:47:20 o itself is a high order function o(f,g)=fog. 15:47:32 (define (compose f g) (lambda (x) (f (g x)))) 15:47:50 pjb: unfortunately the exercise seems to stop once one gets the right answer, which doesn't imply understanding ;-) 15:47:50 (define (double f) (compose f f)) 15:48:11 pjb: now you're helping me cheat with the next exercise! ;-) Actually, I've already created that one 15:48:11 fommil: but you're doing it right, asking here for more :-) 15:50:42 -!- masm [~masm@188.140.67.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:51:05 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:21 masm [~masm@92.250.54.209] has joined #scheme 15:51:53 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:01 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has left #scheme 15:52:05 hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 15:52:05 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 15:52:23 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:36 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 15:53:14 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:25 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 15:53:27 atomx: 99% of the time you don't need a debugger, but sometimes in comes in handy - in those cases gambit has an excellent debugger not tied to any ide 15:53:44 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-30-29.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:35 pjb: that defn of double still doesn't fix the associativity problems 15:58:36 pjb: hold on, let me look at this. I think I got it. 16:05:45 It cannot be associative: f(g)oh  f(goh) in general 16:06:20 You have two operations: double and compose, so no associativity here. 16:07:05 rmathews [~roshan@117.193.223.8] has joined #scheme 16:07:42 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:08 pjb: hazah! using that ((compose (compose double double) double) 1+) and ((compose double (compose double double)) 1+) are the same so double is now associative and does what I (as a mathematician) would have expected 16:08:44 right. 16:08:54 But it's compose that's associative here. 16:09:17 double o (double o double) = (double o double) o double 16:09:50 (double (double double))  ((double double) double) 16:10:22 I'm not sure about the later. 16:11:32 taylanub: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1264 16:11:33 pjb: that's exactly correct. function composition is associative, but there are no guarantees about procedure associativity 16:11:40 pjb: and semantically it is easily to imagine that by calling procedures we are composing functions, but we are not. 16:12:10 Err, actually ((double double) double) = (double (double double)) by mere substitution, since (double double) = (lambda (x) (double (double x))). 16:12:31 but that 16:12:43 's not a general rule, it depends on the definition of double. 16:13:19 double o (double o double) = (lambda (x) (double (double (double x)))) but 16:14:22 (double (double double)) = (lambda (x) (double (double (double (double x))))) as we've seen. 16:16:12 the two examples I gave evaluate to three applications of double, not 4. I've tested it. 16:16:29 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:50 lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 16:18:19 4, since (((double (double double)) 1+) 0) returns 16. 16:18:51 ((double (double (double 1+))) 0) --> 8 ; and ((double (double (double (double 1+)))) 0) --> 16 16:24:32 pjb: sorry, we're talking about different things. look here http://pastie.org/5089438 the final three lines are equivalent 16:25:13 pjb: the example I'm missing is composing a double and a 1+ first, can you help with that? 16:25:32 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:26:39 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:28 bro_grammer_ [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:29:11 Well the last line is quivalent to: (double o double o double o 1+)(5) 16:29:12 -!- lispor [~lispor@110.52.62.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:27 since double o double o double = (lambda (x) (double (double (double x)))) 16:29:41 double o double o double o 1+ = (double (double (double 1+))) 16:30:12 therefore it's equivalent to the previous lines. 16:30:20 -!- bro_grammer [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30:50 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:31:15 -!- mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:38 -!- fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: fommil] 16:36:56 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:59 -!- masm [~masm@92.250.54.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:44:15 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:55 pjb: I need trace, yes, not debugger like in c or elisp 16:45:31 fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 16:45:31 -!- fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:10 atomx: good. Now, if your implementation doesn't provide a good tracer, you can easily write it yourself. I did one stepper/tracer for Common Lisp in a couple of weeks. It should be easier for scheme. See for example the stepper* files in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp 16:46:11 http://tinyurl.com/c4lqvns 16:48:59 pjb: beautiful 16:49:39 pjb: in emacs you use run-scheme simply ? 16:49:52 Yes. 16:49:59 ok 16:50:45 pjb: by the way . coursera inserted sicp on the web , you know ? presented by martin odersky... 16:51:10 Didn't know. That's great! 16:51:18 You would have only to shadow the "special operators". You could do that easily by writing a trace function that would work like eval. 16:51:23 yes, and in the future they will insert more ! 16:51:40 There's already too many courses you can't follow them all :-) 16:52:02 pjb: I solved all the problems of SICP, so I know. My problem is that I did not practice it ;) 16:52:11 i leave a couple of minutes 16:52:33 atomx: writing such a trace function would be a good exercise. 16:53:56 masm [~masm@92.250.73.22] has joined #scheme 16:54:49 pjb: in order to work something, need a motivation. alone is not enough. i do not have contact to people interested about f programming 16:55:16 and for myself, i find all the time something to do ... 16:56:11 DT` [~ea@host254-3-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 16:57:46 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-81-110.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:01 mrm [~user@77.79.158.8.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #scheme 17:00:05 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-81-110.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:00:14 -!- masm [~masm@92.250.73.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:42 -!- crundar [Jason@2001:18e8:2:28a6:fc9b:2cc7:b5ca:88c1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:11 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:10:41 fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:08 -!- fommil [~fommil@cpc11-sgyl35-2-0-cust86.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:40 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:14:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:40 masm [~masm@95.69.73.212] has joined #scheme 17:15:44 ijp [~user@host86-182-155-39.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:16:56 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #scheme 17:21:25 crundar [Jason@2001:18e8:2:28a6:1948:acb4:4102:2dcb] has joined #scheme 17:25:08 kenalex [kenalex@208.169.73.41] has joined #scheme 17:25:12 hello 17:25:47 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:10 whats a good book or online resource for some who wants o learn scheme ? 17:26:28 you should be able to find a used copy of "The little schemer" pretty cheap 17:27:01 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:27:05 depending upon where you're coming from, I might offer different suggestions 17:27:22 thanks 17:31:26 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:31:31 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:20 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:48 -!- bro_grammer_ [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:42 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:48 round 12.5 reports me 12.0 17:36:49 honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:02 integer? also returns true 17:37:16 however, it behaves in tests of speed like a floating number 17:37:35 how can I convert it to a real integer ? 17:40:07 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:41:14 inexact->exact 17:47:32 -!- fgudin [fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:47:39 fgudin [fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 17:47:39 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:10 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:31 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:07:41 kenalex: there's also How to Design Programs -- An Introduction to Computing and Programming http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 18:07:53 kenalex: and of course, sicp is always recommended Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 18:08:05 phew, for a minute there, I thought pjb had went mad 18:08:17 kenalex: be sure to browse http://schemers.org 18:08:25 or went sane, depending on your point of view 18:08:35 ijp: well sicp doesn't teach scheme per se. Only programming. Using scheme for the examples. 18:08:50 pjb: I know, it just isn't like you to recommend htdp 18:08:59 :-) 18:10:08 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD948D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Server buffer killed] 18:10:34 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:31 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-83-148.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:18:49 yoklov [~yoklov@50.28.128.38] has joined #scheme 18:21:20 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@50.28.128.38] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:14 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.26.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:22 taylanub [tub@p4FD948D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:25:52 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:27:46 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:30:30 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33:08 honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:35:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:46 -!- youlysses is now known as youlysses-nap 18:41:52 pjb: this is why I prefer edwin. In case of error, it jumps me to the like that provoked it 18:42:02 emacs does not show the line 18:42:32 jordanorelli [~jordanore@cpe-74-64-58-82.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:43:02 jao [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:05 -!- jao [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:06 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 18:43:44 i'm working on a scheme interpreter in Go, to learn how interpreters work, but I don't know much about scheme (or lisp in general). is there any specific scheme that is recommended for use on OS X, just to fiddle with real quick, and not for anything particularly serious? 18:44:08 with minimal install confusion. 18:45:04 i looked around, and there's a lot of options, and i have no idea which one to use, and no preference. i got drracket working, but i want something on the command line. 18:45:41 mit-scheme is presented in detail in SICP 18:46:31 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-83-148.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:53 cool, i'll try the gnu.org binary. thanks :) 18:47:10 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:12 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:47:13 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 18:47:15 every scheme book includes a halfassed interpreter you can copy 18:47:25 it's an unfortunate tradition 18:48:51 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:49:23 -!- superjud1e [~mjl@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:28 ah, i'm combining norvig's "how to write a lisp interpreter in python" with pike's "lexical scanning in go" talk. 18:49:43 because those are the languages that i have the most experience with. 18:51:20 it's working out really well so far, actually. then i got up to the point where i thought "wait, what should () evaluate to?" and i realized i need to actually do my homework and play with scheme a bit to continue this project 18:52:57 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #scheme 18:57:25 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-19-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:19 -!- kenalex [kenalex@208.169.73.41] has quit [] 19:01:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-160-216.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:01:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:02:57 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-160-216.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:11:26 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.78] has joined #scheme 19:29:51 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-116-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:47 -!- masm [~masm@95.69.73.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:20 pjb: in emacs , run-scheme does not start an interactive evaluator. How can I interactively evaluate something, after I run the code from a file ? 19:37:46 In emacs, the error looks like: 19:37:56 ;The object 561 is not applicable. 19:37:57 ;To continue, call RESTART with an option number: 19:37:57 ; (RESTART 59) => Specify a procedure to use in its place. 19:38:00 ; (RESTART 58) => Return to read-eval-print level 58. 19:38:03 19:38:06 So -- how to find it ? 19:38:49 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.110] has joined #scheme 19:41:40 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.110] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:28 masm [~masm@188.140.37.153] has joined #scheme 19:53:07 honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:48 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:56 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:28 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 20:01:11 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:02:26 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:06 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-230-214.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:17:00 phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:00 -!- phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:17:00 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 20:25:36 -!- crundar [Jason@2001:18e8:2:28a6:1948:acb4:4102:2dcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:00 -!- wingo [~wingo@132-117.192-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:26 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:34:44 ssbr__ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme 20:36:11 crundar [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:38:10 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:38:26 ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme 20:39:31 -!- youlysses-nap is now known as youlysses 20:39:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:19 -!- ssbr__ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43:22 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 20:43:48 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.26.241] has joined #scheme 20:56:06 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:17 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Quit: Server buffer killed] 21:09:57 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:13:36 atomx: Here, C-u M-x run-scheme RET /usr/bin/bigloo RET opens a *scheme* buffer on the bigloo REPL. 21:14:13 The error you have comes from something like (561 ) since 561 doesn't evaluate to a function, it cannot be applied. 21:14:46 It probably comes from a mismatch between cmuscheme.el and xscheme.el... 21:14:48 Once you get the error, you can type (restart 58) to revert to the REPL. 21:14:59 or perhaps (restart 0)? 21:15:06 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:42 -!- crundar [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:01 pjb: In this case I knew where it comes from. But sometimes it is harder to find the place 21:16:20 atomx: it all depends on the implementation and its debugging abilities. 21:17:00 ya -- edwin has a better debugger. you can see the local environments with all bindings, and complete frames 21:17:56 edwin is also tied to a particular scheme implementation, which emacs is not 21:18:39 You can see all that in Emacs, too, with MIT Scheme's command-oriented debugger, but it's much less convenient than Edwin. 21:18:57 I suppose you could hook it up to GUD 21:32:30 edwin is integral part of mit-scheme, and its code is founded on emacs' 21:36:06 -!- noam_ [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:37:47 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-193-46.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37:50 noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has joined #scheme 21:40:30 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 21:42:19 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-30-29.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:51:04 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 21:52:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:52:26 jao [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:28 -!- jao [~jao@134.Red-88-17-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:52:29 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:54:06 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:57:05 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:38 -!- hiroaki_ [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-227-230.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:04:49 in fact, stallman was one of the members who developped scheme ;) 22:05:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:25 Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:06:08 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:43 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:20 -!- jordanorelli [~jordanore@cpe-74-64-58-82.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jordanorelli] 22:18:29 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61053.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:19:32 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:19:32 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:19:32 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 22:23:41 -!- DT` [~ea@host254-3-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:52 DT` [~ea@host254-3-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 22:29:14 -!- saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-tuxsvlixrgviemzz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:34:45 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:05 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:19 ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has joined #scheme 22:47:49 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:54:26 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:45 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:13:13 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:16:57 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:17:11 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.223.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:44 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:36:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:53 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 23:39:39 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:10 Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 23:46:45 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:47:52 Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 23:52:31 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-12-92-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]