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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:06:53 tupi [~david@177.48.227.193] has joined #scheme 05:09:57 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:16:48 -!- tupi [~david@177.48.227.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:18:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:20:19 -!- joeavg [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-143-80.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:37 you won't need a debugger with it 05:20:39 *offby1* whistles innocently 05:21:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:22:29 joeavg [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-143-80.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:27:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:38 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:25 -!- joeavg [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-143-80.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:36:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:37:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:39:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:45:25 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 05:45:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:47:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 05:51:35 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 05:53:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 06:01:50 rudybot: (call/cc call/cc) 06:01:51 astertronistic: your sandbox is ready 06:01:52 astertronistic: ; Value: # 06:02:08 rudybot: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) 06:02:18 astertronistic: error: with-limit: out of time 06:02:57 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:03:03 ((call/cc call/cc) call/cc) 06:03:24 rudybot: ((call/cc call/cc) call/cc) 06:03:24 astertronistic: ; Value: # 06:03:37 rudybot: (call/cc (call/cc call/cc)) 06:03:38 astertronistic: ; Value: # 06:03:46 rudybot: (call/cc (call/cc (call/cc call/cc))) 06:03:46 astertronistic: ; Value: # 06:04:04 rudybot: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc (call/cc (call/cc call/cc)))) 06:04:14 astertronistic: error: with-limit: out of time 06:05:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 06:06:09 rudybot: (map call/cc (list call/cc call/cc)) 06:06:09 astertronistic: ; Value: (# #) 06:06:30 rudybot: (apply apply (map call/cc (list call/cc call/cc))) 06:06:30 astertronistic: error: apply: expects type as 2nd argument, given: #; other arguments were: # 06:07:17 rudybot: (apply call/cc (map call/cc (list call/cc call/cc))) 06:07:17 astertronistic: error: call-with-current-continuation: expects type as 2nd argument, given: #; other arguments were: # 06:11:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:14:15 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #scheme 06:14:26 -!- bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:14:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 06:15:49 bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:21:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:24:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 06:31:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:34:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 12:11:27 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.28.80] has joined #scheme 12:12:26 seems they removed trace from guile 2.0 :/ 12:13:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:35 maybe ask #guile? := 12:13:37 :) 12:14:52 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 12:15:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 12:17:58 just did, so whats cooking ft ?? :) 12:18:18 not much. :) 12:22:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:25:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 12:29:25 -!- homie__ [~homie@xdsl-78-35-145-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:29:39 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:55 -!- lggr 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[~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 16:43:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 16:49:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:49:14 I have a question about quasiquotation - I think I'm missing something in the way it works or the way cons cells are created. 16:49:31 In R5RS, it says that this: 16:49:31 `(( foo ,(- 10 3)) ,@(cdr '(c)) . ,(car '(cons))) 16:49:33 should eval to: 16:49:33 ((foo 7) . cons) 16:50:04 However, after reader expansion, is the first line not: 16:50:04 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-34-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:50:04 (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) . (unquote (car (quote (cons)))))) 16:50:24 Which (since the dot notation just separates the head and tail, and the tail is a list) can also be printed as: 16:50:24 (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) unquote (car (quote (cons))))) 16:51:20 OpinionatedGeek: that happens later, if at all 16:51:24 I suppose my question could also be: How should an evaluator (or is it the parser/reader?) differentiate between: 16:51:24 (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) . (unquote (car (quote (cons)))))) 16:51:26 and this one without the dot: 16:51:26 (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) (unquote (car (quote (cons)))))) 16:51:53 they're simply different s-expressions 16:51:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 16:52:27 They are, I think I'm just having difficulty wrapping my head how they're represented using cons cells. 16:52:32 the evaluater evaluates the parts that are meant to be, does the appropriate substitutions, then the result gives "internalized" data so to say 16:53:50 the evaluator doesn't care at first about the format of the literal parts, it just looks at each (unquote ...) and (unquote-splicing ...) and does those first 16:54:18 so i think you just mixed up the order in which things happen 16:54:42 I think so too Thanks. 16:55:28 i guess we could also say: it receives the code as text, not as an s-expression 16:55:36 So let's say I have a tokenizer, a reader, and an evaluator. 16:55:37 (i'm not sure how accurate that is though ..) 16:56:15 Would it be fair to say then that the unquote happens at (or nearer) the reader instead of the evaluator? 16:56:51 you made me think now :P 16:57:20 -!- masm [~masm@89.214.17.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:20 Heh. 16:58:17 (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) unquote (car (quote (cons))))) 16:58:21 evaluate that, and SURPRISE 16:58:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:58:41 i was wrong, it does receive it as an s-expression 16:58:46 (just tested in guile) 16:59:15 well 16:59:18 Hmm. 16:59:25 that example is redundant, just try this one: (quasiquote (foo unquote (+ 1 2))) 17:00:02 it is indeed equivalent to (quasiquote (foo . (unquote (+ 1 2)))) 17:00:41 thanks, i learned something new :P 17:00:48 But.. 17:00:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:02:11 Does that not mean: `(( foo ,(- 10 3)) ,@(cdr '(c)) . ,(car '(cons))) 17:02:27 Would equate to: ((foo 7.0) unquote (car (quote (cons)))) 17:02:29 ? 17:05:08 that unquote is evaluated as well 17:05:33 Yeah, but how does it know? 17:05:55 the evaluater probably just thinks in pairs, it doesn't knows lists at all actually 17:06:13 If the evaluator is getting the S expression: (quasiquote ((foo (unquote (- 10.0 3.0))) (unquote-splicing (cdr (quote (c)))) unquote (car (quote (cons))))) 17:06:21 (+ . (1 2)) => 3 17:06:28 How does it know to evaluate that unquote? 17:07:05 it sees it as the car of a pair some time after it saw a `quasiquote' 17:07:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:08:42 can we just use the `(foo . ,(+ 1 1)) example to avoid mental overhead ? 17:08:50 Sure. 17:09:39 OK, in Scheme48 (which I assume is correct) that gives me: '(foo . 2) 17:09:55 In my (broken) evaluator, I get: (foo unquote (+ 1.0 1.0)) 17:10:16 your evaluator should just receive (quasiquote . (foo . (unquote . (+ . (1 . (1 . ())))))) from the reader 17:10:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:11:50 -!- hiroaki_ [~hiroaki@p5B04BB95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:12:54 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:44 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:17:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:41 Aha. 17:17:57 Maybe some progress. 17:18:06 (Had to rewrite some code to get the dotted notation out...) 17:18:59 But it says I'm building: quasiquote . ((foo . (unquote . ((+ . (1.0 . (1.0 . [null]))) . [null]))) . [null])) 17:19:02 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:18 Sorry: (quasiquote . ((foo . (unquote . ((+ . (1.0 . (1.0 . [null]))) . [null]))) . [null])) 17:19:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:20:19 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:32 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:22:11 carleastlund [~cce@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:22:27 when you give it `(foo . ,(+ 1 1)) ? 17:24:29 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 17:25:58 -!- tupi [~david@177.151.96.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:08 Yes. 17:27:25 i guess your reader is broken then ? 17:29:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:29:11 Could well be. 17:33:12 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-145-225.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:34:47 masm [~masm@89.214.17.249] has joined #scheme 17:35:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:37:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:38:33 OTOH, are you sure that I should be getting: (quasiquote . (foo . (unquote . (+ . (1 . (1 . ())))))) ? 17:38:35 tupi [~david@177.150.84.250] has joined #scheme 17:39:02 When I try to simplify the dots (as according to: http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/guide/Pairs__Lists__and_Scheme_Syntax.html ) 17:39:03 http://tinyurl.com/8f8se93 17:39:11 oh wait .. 17:39:21 sorry, i think yours was right :\ 17:39:26 In general, the rule for printing a pair is as follows: use the dot notation always, but if the dot is immediately followed by an open parenthesis, then remove the dot, the open parenthesis, and the matching close parenthesis. 17:39:41 indeed, (quasiquote . (foo ...)) is (quasiquote foo ...) 17:39:59 Oh, OK. Thanks. 17:40:13 sorry because of the confusion 17:40:54 No problem. I'm happy re-checking stuff! 17:41:41 So with my current representation of: 17:41:42 (quasiquote . ((foo . (unquote . ((+ . (1.0 . (1.0 . [null]))) . [null]))) . [null])) 17:42:03 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 17:42:12 it looks like I'm missing an extra pair or '(' just before the unquote. 17:43:44 so that the evaluator calls the unquote procedure. 17:43:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:50:25 looks fine to me .. 17:52:07 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:53:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:53:54 the last s-expression you pasted looks fine 17:54:04 (quasiquote . ((foo . (unquote . ((+ . (1 . (1 . ()))) . ()))) . ())) => (foo . 2) ;; tested in guile 17:54:05 If I simplify the dots, it gives: 17:54:07 (quasiquote (foo unquote (+ . (1.0 . (1.0 . [null]) . [null])) . [null])) 17:55:18 Which (to my mind) is wrong because the unquote should have a ( before it. 17:55:44 it shouldn't, since (foo . (bar . ())) = (foo bar) 17:55:54 Oh, OK. 17:55:55 but there are some superfluous . [null] 17:55:58 -!- b4283 [~b4283@114-47-17-216.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:56:16 Yeah - the nulls could just be because of the jacky code I put in to get the dotted notation out. 17:56:24 indeed 17:56:27 'jacky'? I meant 'jacky'! 17:56:32 Wait. 17:56:34 What? 17:56:50 Something is auto-correcting 'hacky'! 17:56:51 hahaha 17:56:56 Ha! 17:56:58 Sorry. 17:57:18 Right, OK - I'm going to park this now. 17:57:20 i should've known, the "" already told me you're on OS X 17:57:26 Many thanks for your help! 17:57:39 my pleasure, i'm still learning myself as you see 17:57:42 (Heh, yeah. My Linux box is all the way upstairs.) 17:57:48 Right. Gotta go. 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