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17:18:53 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:01 klr [~klr@h87-241-107-31.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #scheme 17:24:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:22 is this the channel for the scheme language? 17:24:43 Yes 17:26:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:27:07 Hi, I'm trying to learn C, but I can't pass the exercises since I don't know how to program, I only learn the language in K&R not how to program really, so i searched around and find this book http://www.htdp.org/ , it seem to cover some language called "Racket" though, at least when I tried to find DrScheme which seem to be some alternative version of scheme, can i still use this book for learning how to program with Scheme or do I have to 17:28:40 Drscheme = old name for racket 17:29:07 Racket implements scheme among other things 17:29:09 Can I still use the book to learn normal Scheme? Normal Scheme seem cooler... 17:29:47 It is normal scheme 17:29:55 Okey 17:30:10 Just cooler :) 17:30:28 You can ask on #racket 17:30:32 tejaswi [~tejaswidp@117.202.99.228] has joined #scheme 17:30:37 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.99.228] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:49 Is Scheme good for learning how to program, I've tried to learn Lua and now C, but I still don't understand how to really write programs... 17:31:49 Pick python and scheme 17:32:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:33:03 Python may be easier to grasp, but scheme actually has resources for designing programs 17:33:26 Indecipherable: I've heard Python is "too easy", well, some people told me it would hold my hand soo much I would get a hard time learn a "real" language after that... 17:33:32 -!- tejaswi [~tejaswidp@117.202.99.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:43 Python omits lots of things that make it not ideal for leaning /programming/, I think. 17:33:49 It doesn't understand variable scopes, for one thing 17:33:59 Python is great 17:34:07 Except 17:34:25 It is a 'scripting' language 17:34:41 I will try to learn programming with the book( http://www.htdp.org/ ). If it teaches me Scheme too it just cool, it seem like a cool language! :D 17:34:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:34:49 klr: look here! .... http://schemers.org/ And good work! 17:35:16 pnpu1f: hmm, what do you mean with "And good work!" :P 17:35:16 Though there is nothing 'unreal' about it 17:36:27 http://lisp.meetup.com/ some are close to me :) 17:37:16 Well, I watched a few lectures about functional programming on YouTube, but I got a question, what's the difference between functional and purly-functional? 17:37:38 there we open the box :) 17:38:49 klr: enjoy yourself with scheme! :-) 17:38:57 adiii [~adityavit@static-71-250-238-242.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:03 pnpu1f: Okey! :) 17:39:08 -!- sizz_ [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:39:31 sizz [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:40:24 klr: there are probably a million answers to that question, all equally incorrect :) 17:40:49 I got a question though, I think some english man called Simon iirc, said that C/C++/Java is unsafe but useful, and that functional languages was safe but useless, what do he mean with that? I will try show the source were I found out he said this 17:41:00 to my mind: purely functional means no side effects period, functional means no side effects that are observable to the user, but may be used internally 17:41:18 Okey 17:41:19 klr: simon peyton jones? 17:41:27 certainty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSmkqocn0oQ 17:41:39 certainty: i doubt spj would call functional languages useless 17:41:42 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.8.50] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 17:41:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:42:04 Yes Simon Peyton Jones 17:42:12 ijp: well he didn't say it this way :) 17:42:14 he said they was useless but safe 17:42:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSmkqocn0oQ 17:42:28 klr: don't take it literally 17:42:33 No 17:42:35 of course 17:42:49 That's why I ask what he means by saying that 17:42:50 klr: take it this way, if I write a program foo that performs no side effects, how do I get the result? 17:43:11 klr: the guy you're referring to is the one that was very much involved in the haskell language and the current major implementation ghc 17:43:47 Okey, I'm sorry, this might be a too advanced topic for me, I don't know how to program yet :P 17:44:08 it's legal to ask questions, when they pop up :) 17:44:39 hehe 17:45:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:45:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-122.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:46:01 klr: the difference maybe that they're say something different. functional means that you have functions that when given the same input produce the same output. (i'm simplifying). And purely functional is often used to describe programming languages that only permit this style of programming 17:46:26 scheme is not purely functional 17:46:50 *ijp* prefers purely fictional programming languaes 17:46:58 lol 17:47:06 Okey, thanks for clearing that out :D 17:47:24 klr: I'm arriving late to the discussion, but htdp was designed to be _the_ introduction to programming. You could not have chosen better. 17:47:31 So, Scheme can be used fully-functionally, and hekell force you to do so? 17:47:43 Yes, it uses Scheme; but its intent is to teach _programming_, not just _scheme_ programming. 17:47:44 klr: simply put, yes 17:47:46 well, even haskell has unsafePerformIO 17:47:49 offby1: Cool! :) 17:47:54 certainty: well explained, sir/madam 17:47:55 ijp: we don't tell :) 17:48:03 klr: Also, the 2nd edition is better: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/ (though not complete yet) 17:48:06 certainty: indeed, that's the problem 17:48:26 -!- sizz [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:48:38 sizz [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:58 Okey, this is very cool, I've started reading the book a little bit, but it is quite advanced english, I'm not good at english but this maybe learn me good english too while learning programming :) 17:50:03 ijp: yeah, that was actually something that shocked me when i first heared about it. But then, there is at least safe haskell :) 17:50:17 Well, thanks for all answers, I maybe will come back here, have a good day everybody! 17:50:30 klr: there's also a #racket channel 17:50:35 -!- klr [~klr@h87-241-107-31.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:51:08 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.176] has joined #scheme 17:52:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:34 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:54:54 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.99.228] has joined #scheme 17:56:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:01:55 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:03:02 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:03:50 -!- lggr 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