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has joined #scheme 08:36:37 kuribas [~user@94-227-88-230.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:37:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:41:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 08:42:54 add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 08:43:14 masm [~masm@46.50.13.141] has joined #scheme 08:46:47 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has joined #scheme 08:47:07 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 08:47:57 covi: what does `se' do ? also, couldn't you define `no-bra' as (define (no-bar p) (if (pair? p) (se (no-bra (car p)) (no-bra (cdr p))) p)) ? 08:48:18 -!- hyperFRITZ is now known as typechef 08:48:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:49:54 (`pair?' returns #f for '(), so no worries there. also, if you want to limit the atoms to all being numbers, i'd to that explicitly (currently it's an "implicit" limitation because you'll just apply `car' or `cdr' to anything not '() or a number, so it'll give an error)) 08:50:11 genbattle [~quassel@60.234.146.128] has joined #scheme 08:53:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 08:53:41 -!- typechef is now known as FastCars 08:56:59 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 08:58:09 -!- FastCars is now known as SlowBikes 08:58:55 -!- SlowBikes is now known as z0LTROMiNATOR 09:00:18 by the way the standard function to test for '() is `null?', not `empty?' 09:00:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:10 You mean scheme has some legacy too? 09:02:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:02:16 i'm not sure what you mean, is `empty?' the old name for `null?' ? i'm too young to know :P 09:03:19 In lisp, null tests for nil. In scheme, there's no nil, just an empty list object denoted by (). Hence empty? would be a natural name for this function, but scheme nonetheless calls it null?. 09:03:40 It's a DHAW question (Double Horse Ass Width). 09:06:08 oh i see, `empty?' is indeed more natural i guess. wasn't familiar with the term DHAW .. 09:06:52 http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html 09:08:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:09:14 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:33 Doesn't the standard defines () as the only memember of the null type? 09:12:42 null is just a unit type right, that's why. 09:12:51 empty? as a type would also catch #() logically I guess 09:13:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has joined #scheme 09:14:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:16:03 And empty trees, and empty bags and empty cars and empty boxes, etc. If you want. 09:16:04 hrm, do we even have atoms that are a member of more than one type ? 09:16:17 That's forbidden by r5rs. 09:16:49 #() is not an atom, is it ? it actually is a vector, unlike '() which is not a pair 09:17:05 (define (atom? x) (not (pair? x))) 09:17:18 (symbol? nil) is true in CL right? 09:17:24 Yes. 09:17:29 (symbolp 'nil) 09:17:29 oh .. vectors count as atoms ? 09:17:34 Depending on your definition of atom 09:17:37 -!- bjz [~brendanza@203-206-132-21.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:17:40 anything but a cons cell is an atom. 09:17:41 originally, atoms where everyhing that was immutable basically 09:17:45 hence they were called atoms. 09:17:49 Depends on your definition thereof. 09:17:53 Notice that r5rs doesn't define cons? or atom? but only pair? 09:18:08 well i guess if strings are, vectors must be too. 09:18:14 Pretty much, it's not needed and it's a term that causes a lot of confusion because everyone uses it differently. 09:18:21 i see 09:18:32 A lot of schemes consider strings atoms, in common lisp this a bit rarer I believe. 09:18:46 But historically, the idea of an atom was that it was immutable, for which the name 'atom' makes sense. 09:18:50 Anything that's not a cons cell is an atom. 09:18:57 Nothing rare about it, it has been true since 1959. 09:19:08 ok 09:19:18 In 1959 vectors and strings weren't used. 09:19:30 i guess the idea is based on s-expressions ? 09:19:39 as far as I know, the original text about it spoke of the significance that non atoms were mutable and could have their elements changed 09:19:52 if #() were standard notation, maybe we wouldn't call them atoms ... 09:21:01 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:21:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)#Atoms this is about an accurate description of why the term 'atom' has fallen out of use 09:21:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:21:46 It was originally relevant because atoms were well.. atomic. 09:21:56 a string or vector is definitely not atomic 09:22:25 z0LTROMiNATOR: in scheme, perhaps, but in CL we talk of atom all the time. 09:22:47 And people call vectors and strings there atoms? 09:22:59 atoms are not atomic either: they're made of electrons, neutrons and protons. 09:23:15 Indeed, misnomer, they were assumed to be atomic. 09:23:28 But if you mean 'not cons' with 'atom', the term basically has no meaning whatsoever honestly. 09:23:54 If you mean 'any immutable boject which cannot be subdivided into relevant parts' it definitely has meaning. 09:24:22 In any case, most CL'ers I've heard using the term use atom for character, symbols, numbers, nil and T 09:24:48 #() syntax is standard in r5rs, no ? 09:25:06 For an empty vector/ 09:25:07 Yeah 09:25:21 (i meant generally #(...) for vectors) 09:25:28 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.30.6] has joined #scheme 09:25:38 I believe R5 does not define what #() should evaluate to but most implemenetions let vectors evaluate to themselves. 09:25:44 taylanub, indeed 09:25:52 Clojure uses [ ... ] which honestly makes sens 09:25:55 if there were some standard that defines no syntax for compound objects other than pairs, i guess we could say atoms are defined as per that, but that's not the case either, is it ? 09:26:11 z0LTROMiNATOR: oh yeah, '#(...) it is 09:26:31 taylanub, well, the original significance of the term 'atom' was that it was immutable and could be cheaply compared 09:26:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:26:46 i guess i should just stop using the term :) 09:26:46 Instead of comparing it by comparing the individual elements that it makes up 09:26:57 Quite, the term basically means a different thing depending on to whom you talk. 09:27:07 understood 09:28:05 But ehh, your original thing, I do believe that null is actually a (unit) type whose only member is the empty list 09:30:32 yes, i was just referring to "empty"; i wouldn't call it a type if it includes #() and "" and whatnot .. but maybe the word "type" isn't well-defined 09:30:43 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:31:18 It isn't in the context of dynamically typed languages 09:31:27 which are therefore by some people simply called 'untyped' 09:33:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:13 pjb: that was a very nice text :) 09:34:53 z0LTROMiNATOR: interesting, and i guess easy to confuse with weakly-typed languages 09:35:27 dynamic typing and weak typing are two different things, I would say scheme is more strongly typed than C 09:35:43 surely 09:35:57 THat said, what is a 'type error' is very much just a matter of definition 09:36:19 Haskell does not consider 1/0 a type error for instance, there are languages which actually catch that at compile time, but those are seldom turing complete. 09:36:41 taylanub: and it includes Zefram Cochrane's ship, since it was an old IBCM missile. 09:37:10 Solid rock&roll in that ship 09:37:14 1/0 is cought at read time in CL :-) 09:37:18 caught 09:37:42 But is (/ (- 1 1)) eh? 09:37:56 (oh, it's about actual space shuttles, i thought it's some sci-fi thing (opening the page in w3m gives me little hints about what kind of web-page it is)) 09:38:06 But anyway, what I'm trying to say I guess is that it all hinches on what you, arbitrarily, define as a 'type error' 09:38:34 dzhus [~dzhus@128-72-167-110.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:38:36 So in that sense, you cdould say that every langauge catches all its type errors at compile time as long as you just say that all the things it doesn't catch aren't type errors. 09:38:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:40:23 taylanub: well, I'd bet that indeed, they took into account the gauge of tunnels and roads when designing it. I'm not so sure they knew that it came from so far as the Romans. But AFAIK, it's a good explaination. 09:40:51 taylanub: of course, the only way to know it for sure would be to be Mandrake, to go back in time, have the Roman use wider horses, and see what happens. 09:40:53 klgg213498 [~mail_for_@85.21.8.51] has joined #scheme 09:41:30 hehe 09:42:53 We can also notice that Russian railways are wider, and compare Russian rockets diameter. 09:46:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46:25 They are slightly wider, yes 09:46:34 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD_(%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C) 09:47:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:48:53 "Diameter of central parts is equal to maximum allowed railway cargo size" 09:54:13 So, DHAW effect confirmed. 09:54:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:54:34 Same as for 80 column editing, etc. 09:54:43 http://sprunge.us/aAVB covi, i was too lazy to try and understand your implementation but the problem interested me and here's my implementation which seems to work 09:56:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 09:56:40 (note that you must append a \n if you want that) 09:58:29 now making that fully tail-recursive would be interesting 10:01:41 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD91EEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:01:54 taylanub [tub@p4FD922B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:03:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:05:41 RebelBunny [~RebelBunn@108-250-133-41.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 10:05:45 are a lot of programs and functions are much more cleanly expressed in a procedural style than functional? 10:06:37 i'm not sure whether "procudural style" and "functional style" are well-defined 10:08:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 10:11:00 implicit state can't be harmful in small pieces of code; using monads for everything is perhaps kind of silly. you just have to be careful with bigger designs i guess. but i don't have enough real-life experience to be trusted :) 10:14:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:17:34 bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 10:19:00 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r190-135-16-20.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:19:18 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 10:22:54 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-167-194.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:24:25 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:03 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-212-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:31:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 10:38:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:15 -!- masm [~masm@46.50.13.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:43:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 10:50:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:55:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 11:01:18 is it possible to use continuation-passing style to turn a recursive process into an iterative one ? i imagine e.g. turning (begin (recursing-function) (foo)) into (begin (call/cc recursing-function*) (foo)) 11:02:27 .. but that's useless because the reified continuation will have the same size the stack had ? 11:02:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:02:36 masm [~masm@89.214.204.239] has joined #scheme 11:09:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 11:18:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:19:23 taylanub: you can use call/cc to implement goto, and you can derecursive any recursive function possibly using a stack. Rather trivial. 11:22:04 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 11:22:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:27:39 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:31:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 11:32:27 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.109.105] has joined #scheme 11:39:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:45:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 11:50:03 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE3085a9682da0-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:54:04 -!- genbattle [~quassel@60.234.146.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:40 ijp [~user@host86-174-103-190.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has 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[~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:43:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:45:26 -!- masm [~masm@89.214.204.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:51 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:50:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:11 taylanub: your implementation seems to work perfectly, thanks! 17:55:56 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 17:56:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 17:56:27 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:58:02 taylanub: can you explain the overall logic of your program? 17:58:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:02:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:04:54 -!- hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@77-20-76-240-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:05:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 18:06:09 wingo [~wingo@173-8-133-100-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:11:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:13:55 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 18:17:45 hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@p5B04B9A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:16 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:52 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.51] has joined #scheme 18:22:56 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:30:47 riccardo [~riccardo@host21-82-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:31:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:40 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:50 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:06 covi: let me try .. can't guarantee it will be clear :) 18:33:19 first of all, we have to think in terms of the external representation of s-expressions --including the convenience notation for lists-- instead of pairs 18:33:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:33:54 in fact a BNF for that might be a perfect reference .. 18:35:00 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:36:11 any way, it goes: The external representation of a s-expression is either 1) "()" for the empty list atom, 2) for any other atom (we don't further bother with this), or 2) "(" ")" for a proper or improper list, where ... 18:38:40 no, let's call that .. going on 18:39:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:40:55 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 18:41:19 where is either 1) for a pair whose cdr is the empty list atom (single-element list), 2) for a pair whose cdr is a pair, or 3) " . " for a pair whose cdr is any other atom 18:41:26 Well, is there a formal definition for s-expression in scheme where I can read from? 18:41:37 well .. i pretty much wrote the same code in English now i think :D 18:41:46 so maybe that was useless 18:42:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:42:07 the standards have a formal notation section, covi 18:42:45 thx taylanub 18:43:13 section 7 18:43:29 "Formal syntax and semantics", found in r5rs and r7rs at least, as far as i'm aware 18:43:59 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:56 got it thx 18:45:04 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:45:42 np 18:48:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 18:51:52 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:11 dzhus 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[~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:32:14 -!- copumpkin is now known as Guest7740 22:32:33 -!- Guest7740 [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:54 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:10 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 22:37:17 wingo [~wingo@208.70.28.126] has joined #scheme 22:40:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 22:47:09 replore [~replore@FL1-122-135-249-222.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 22:47:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:48:59 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:51:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 22:55:17 why do some use Scheme over Racket? 22:55:33 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-68-252.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:58:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:58:38 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-122-135-249-222.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:52 bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:03:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 23:04:50 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 23:05:23 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 23:05:27 replore [~replore@FL1-122-135-249-222.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 23:06:22 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-122-135-249-222.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:25 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:27 homie``` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-155.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:14:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 23:15:00 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:11 RebelBunny, because if you use the various features of racket, a lot are basically only in racket, tying you to an implementation which is known to lack in performance I guess. 23:18:34 I don't think tying yourself to a particular implementation in general is a very scalable thing to do. 23:19:56 -!- bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:20:22 bjz [~brendanza@CPE-123-211-14-168.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:21:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21:20 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:22:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 23:26:09 z0LTROMiNATOR: Racket is no "known to lack in performance" 23:26:14 *not 23:27:00 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:30:16 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/will/Twobit/benchmarksFakeR6Linux.html most benchmarks I've seen place racket/PLT/MzSchem, whichever they call it there at the low end, no idea if it has improved. 23:30:35 They also seem to omit stalin for the most part, I have no idea how good it actually is. 23:33:02 z0LTROMiNATOR: since 2007, the performance of Racket has improved significantly 23:33:30 I'm not one to argue, do you have some recent graphs? 23:33:39 *jrslepak* isn't sure how useful it is to ask "what about Stalin?" when picking a scheme implementation 23:34:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 23:35:03 for somewhat more recent charts, see page 8 of http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/pldi11-thacff.pdf 23:35:55 Um, besides being old, those benchmarks (Will's) are R6RS, which would have a big hit due to mutable lists etc. 23:35:55 Stalin is bestest ever if only for the name. 23:36:17 Stalin, in partiucular, will never be there, since it's not even R5. 23:36:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-174-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:42 And that's a good thing, since Stalin is a horrible representative as far as a Scheme implementation goes. 23:36:51 s/horrible/*horrible*/ 23:36:58 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-137.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:00 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-174-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:37:58 Of course it's a bit eccentric, but it's named Stalin, come on, how can you not love it. 23:38:06 It _brutally_ optimizes. 23:39:00 It's a whole-program thing, slow like a crippled worm trying to cross a desert, and has no chance of ever being dynamic as in providing an `eval' or similar. 23:39:20 And yes, the name is a horribly bad pun too. 23:39:35 No, the name is magnificent. 23:40:05 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:40:21 http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/joseph-stalin-1.jpg would you look at this stylish moustache, would you not want a barely-not R4 implementation with such a moustache? 23:40:23 The fact that Stalin was not someone to admire is not really some hidden piece of knowledge. 23:40:39 He did brutally optimize his cabinet. 23:40:57 *eli* sighs 23:40:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:28 Of course the joke of the name is that Stalin was pretty much a mass murderer who ""purified"" his cabinet of everyone who didn't absolutely do his bidding. 23:42:10 No, that's not a joke, it's just a very poorly chosen pun. 23:42:36 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-174-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:58 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-174-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:44:02 Puns are a subform of joke, and I think it's funny as hell. 23:44:37 I have got to meet this guy who has the guts to do that 23:44:45 z0LTROMiNATOR: i've never gotten the impression that it's a joke from siskind 23:44:46 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o eli 23:44:52 Here's a joke 23:44:58 -!- z0LTROMiNATOR [~eli@racket/eli] has been kicked from #scheme by eli (z0LTROMiNATOR) 23:45:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o eli 23:45:07 z0LTROMiNATOR [~Lajla@ip51cc146b.speed.planet.nl] has joined #scheme 23:45:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 23:45:17 *eli* thinks that was funny as hell 23:45:27 It gave me a chuckle. 23:45:27 except in the sense that you shouldn't name things after mass murderers, but he did 23:45:45 Anyway, I don't think it was not intended to be 'not funny', there has to be some sense of humour in it. 23:46:03 -!- wingo [~wingo@208.70.28.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:30 Well, that's your opinion, pretty subjective, the humour lies in the fact that he indeed was a mass murderer and controversial person, together with the tagline 'IT brutally optimizes' as a reference to Stalin's unusual politiices on discharge from his cabinet. 23:47:30 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:52:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme