00:00:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:07:33 ow ow my eyes ow ow 00:08:03 *offby1* liked McFritzen better 00:08:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:09:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:15:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:18:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:19:21 -!- kk` [~kk@217.155.42.31] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 00:21:35 offby1: Majusculophobia? 00:24:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:25:46 I disapprove of mixing Latin and Greek like that. 00:26:33 offby1, my old friend 00:26:37 I like what you've done with your beard 00:28:01 QUACKALPACATRON: Good call! What's the Hellenism for ``capital leters''? I'll venture: macrogrammotaphobia. Olympioi be praised! 00:28:11 macrogrammatophobia* 00:28:58 klutometis: not phobia, just ... ow 00:29:27 you know, I'm getting the feeling that QUACKALPACATRON likes what I've done with my beard. Can't explain why; it's just a sense that I have. 00:29:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:29:51 rudybot: t8 en hl fear of capital letters 00:29:52 *offby1: Invalid Value 00:29:55 *sigh* 00:30:33 offby1, http://youtu.be/YMU-6FMqNcc?t=1m35s 00:30:46 offby1, no offence, but your bot sucks 00:30:53 I like what it did to its beard though 00:30:57 And this: 00:31:02 rudybot, (eq? values (compose) 00:31:02 QUACKALPACATRON: you of course need to adapt and compose your own input method, adding in there all the characters you want to easily type on your keyboard, right? 00:31:05 rudybot, (eq? values (compose)) 00:31:06 QUACKALPACATRON: your sandbox is ready 00:31:07 QUACKALPACATRON: ; Value: #t 00:31:15 rudybot: t8 en el fear of capital letters 00:31:16 *offby1:       00:31:32 patches welcome 00:31:38 lol 00:31:51 Makes sense 00:31:53 'head letters' 00:32:11 offby1, so, you got cephalogrammatophobia? 00:32:20 *offby1* is enlightened 00:32:26 *offby1* rushes off to dispose of his ring 00:32:32 offby1, or are you perhaps anencephalic? 00:32:47 well, it just makes my eyes hurt to see something to big. 00:32:50 s/to/so/ 00:32:50 Most bots so far are anencephalic. 00:33:52 , known as  , implies that the prefix is mega- not macro-; maybe megagrammatophobia, therefore? 00:34:04 There's an unfortunate overloading with a million, though; so maybe I'll keep it where it is. 00:34:10 offby1, it makes my eyes hurt to see anencephalic babies if I'm honest. 00:34:13 *klutometis* claims the motherfucking neologism. 00:34:17 Hapax legomenon. 00:34:48 klutometis, megalo* 00:34:51 Learn to form greek words plx 00:34:56 Also, it's cephalogrammatophobia 00:35:07 cephalogramma <- capital letter apparently. 00:35:14 'head letter' apparently. 00:35:19 QUACKALPACATRON: Sorry, dude; Socrates himself spoke of macrology vs. micrology. 00:35:28 *offby1* ain't gonna argue greek with no klutometis 00:35:32 (I didn't read 4 years of Greek at Harvard for nothing.) 00:35:33 Not of megalogy though 00:35:44 Yeah; I'm keeping it macro-. 00:35:45 Megalology in the end. 00:35:49 No, I mean 00:35:55 it is megalogrammato, not megagrammato 00:35:58 stem is megal- 00:36:09 megas is just the masculine nomiantive singular form 00:36:25 Which led some people to incorrectly deduce that the stem is mega-, it is not, it's megal- 00:36:31 megalomaniac 00:36:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:36:33 Ah, good point; but you have , , &c. Lots of precedent. 00:37:07 megadaktulus? 00:37:09 What's that? 00:37:15 The former being your big toe; the latter, bragging. 00:37:34 Oh yeah, makes sense. 00:37:38 THat is really called that? 00:37:42 Not megalodaktylus? 00:38:14 Anyway 00:38:23 the issue is that long-and-descriptive-identifiers make my brain hurt 00:38:31 And ldidents do not. 00:38:36 Or stidents 00:41:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:43:01 i love descriptive identifiers 00:43:13 they clarify the code 00:43:56 of course, it can be taken too far... if you have one long procedure, describing every single little thing that the procedure does in the procedure's name would be going too far 00:44:15 It's called a lambda form. 00:44:31 but i generally try to err on the side of identifiers which are too long than too short 00:48:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:48:46 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 00:52:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 00:56:51 hypnocat, I disagree, they make code a block of text that is hard to read. 00:57:21 I find 'call/cc' tells me immediately what it is 'call-with-current-continuation' forces me to read at least up to 'call-with' to guess what it is. 00:58:18 That thing makes code unreadable whatever its name happens to be. 00:58:46 an occasional abbreviation is not so bad.. a program full of them is bad, though 00:59:12 the extreme of that are languages like haskell and ocaml, where one-letter variable names and cryptic sigils are common 00:59:18 I disagree, it makes functions immediately recognisable, longer names are just harder to recognise. 00:59:27 and, of course, the worst is probably the likes of APL, brainfuck, and whitespace 00:59:30 Haskell is barely readable because it uses mathematical textbook notation 00:59:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:17 I would say that brainfuck was a lot less readable if [ became begin, ] became end, > became 'move-pointer-left' etc 01:00:40 begin move-pointer-left move-pointer-left move-pointer-left increment increment move-pointer right end 01:00:51 Is a loooooooooooot harder to read than [>>>++<] 01:01:19 with no indentation or line breaks, the descriptive form does look unreadable 01:01:54 anyway, the usefulness of abbreviations and short sigils increase with the frequency of their use 01:01:56 What about (> > > + + <)? 01:01:58 This is #scheme! 01:02:39 like the lisp parenthesis.. it would indeed be hell to program in a language that made you spell out "open-parenthesis" and "close-parenthesis" instead of ( and ) 01:03:00 in a language where there are as many parenthesis as in lisp/scheme 01:03:52 so even in lisp and scheme there are some short sigils like that.. and like the arithmetic operators 01:03:59 QUACKALPACATRON: What about the following substitution? [ -> "while(*p){"; ] -> "}"; < -> "p--;"; > -> "p++;"; - -> "(*p)--"; + -> "(*p)++" 01:04:21 And I guess , -> "*p = getchar();" and . -> "putchar(*p);" 01:04:34 That would probably be a lot more readable to most people! 01:04:59 there's got to be a balance... and i think lisp and especially scheme have got the balance nailed pretty well 01:05:46 shachaf, what language is that? 01:05:50 What's with all the " ? 01:05:55 Ohhh 01:05:57 substitution 01:05:59 I read 'computation' 01:06:34 shachaf, I'm not sure what exactly you mean. 01:06:46 hypnocat, I honestly think scheme hasn't, vector-ref or string-ref are waaaaaaay too long 01:06:53 vecref strref works fine 01:06:54 mkstr 01:07:01 i have no problem with them 01:07:08 QUACKALPACATRON: That's a C->BF compiler right there! Given the appropriate header and footer. 01:07:10 with vector-ref and string-ref, i mean 01:07:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 01:07:18 perhaps i don't use them enough, though 01:07:19 Hmm, what's supposed to happen when you > past the end of the tape? 01:07:30 shachaf, ohhh 01:07:41 Yeah, you seem to be right 01:08:31 But for instance, I got currl here 01:08:48 I have no intention of writing and most importantly reading curry-left every time 01:09:39 Most functions that have "curry" in their name don't actually curry. 01:09:52 do they salsa? 01:10:52 Don't care, it not about 5that the function name describes what it does, it's about that you can instantly recognise it if you know what it does. 01:11:04 hence car and not get-the-first-element-of-a-cons 01:11:51 i'm happy with "first" instead of "fst" 01:12:03 or, worse, 1< or something 01:12:19 it's all about balance 01:12:32 not too short, not too long.. just right == scheme 01:12:33 :) 01:12:47 No, scheme is too long, you should all recognise my opinion is better than yours. 01:12:49 offby1, does. 01:13:11 if you are unhappy with scheme, there are plenty of other languages that share your aesthetic 01:13:40 I am unhappy about every single language on the planet. ._. 01:13:49 you could write your own.. 01:14:12 That is what I am planning to do, sadly doing it on my own will lead to a compiler about as efficient as the first commercial VB implementation 01:14:27 all languages have to start somewhere 01:14:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:46 perhaps you'll gain a fanbase and contributions from people interested in improving its efficiency 01:14:52 The main problem I have with scheme is its godawful type and module system. 01:14:57 like those people who are working on compilers for python 01:15:07 My main problemn with python is that it exists. 01:15:21 ""module system"" 01:15:42 at least it has a module system 01:15:51 Most modern languages do I guess 01:15:52 not all languages do 01:15:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 01:16:13 But like, if you read scip you quickly come to the conclusion of 'Hey, if I make a minor error encoding like all the data into cons cells nothing flags me. 01:16:13 javascript! 01:16:28 The biggest problem with javascript is obviously arguments.caller and its friends. 01:16:51 As well as its lack of a character datatype and __proto__ which is widely supported even though I believe not part of an official standard 01:16:58 not enough parenthesis.. 01:17:18 that's the problem with every language except lisp and scheme 01:17:20 That scheme has no list datatype is also screaming for problems. 01:18:19 if you want to bash your head against a fascistically typed compiler, there are languages for that too 01:18:41 No one is forcing you to use a list datatype. 01:19:15 But there are issues with it, like, R5 does not mandate that functions that operate on lists in general have to check if the structure passed is a list. 01:19:16 so what datatype would lists be in this language with a list datatype? 01:19:22 Would be cool if that could be done in constant time. 01:19:31 just list? 01:19:45 You just have a cons cell, the cdr is immutable and must be a list itself. 01:19:47 so if i didn't want to use a list datatype i'd have to avoid using lists? 01:19:53 Checks that every time you (lcons x y) 01:20:07 You can make your own old cons cells the old way if you want 01:20:22 if you want to be able to insert, make cyclic structures, make lists improper 01:20:35 You can just say that you have to use unsafe-map on them or something 01:20:42 because there is no guarantee any more that it actually goes well. 01:21:28 racket actually does something like this I believe. 01:21:39 They also make car immutable though 01:21:47 And they don't force cdr to be a list? itself. 01:22:35 offby1, you 01:22:37 -!- lggr 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13:52:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 13:55:33 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.57.162] has joined #scheme 13:56:20 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:59:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 14:08:34 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 14:09:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:10:40 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.242.105] has joined #scheme 14:12:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 14:16:14 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:18:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:20:47 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:21:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 14:25:50 We are happy to announce the availability of chicken 4.8.0. See http://code.call-cc.org/releases/4.8.0/NEWS for the Changelog 14:28:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:45 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 14:38:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.31.244] has joined #scheme 14:41:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.31.244] has quit [Changing host] 14:41:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 14:42:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:43:18 megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.182.83] has joined #scheme 14:44:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 14:45:32 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 14:47:04 -!- cdidd 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quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:02:00 `micro [~micro@reflex.squiz.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:02:07 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:37 -!- hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:03:52 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #scheme 19:04:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 19:04:05 hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has joined #scheme 19:04:18 -!- `micro is now known as Guest28896 19:06:49 if any of you live near to this, it will probably be worth going - https://thestrangeloop.com/sessions/the-racket-way 19:09:27 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:38 em, you speak 19:10:16 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:14 -!- lggr 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 19:25:23 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-vntphzzibkasewvo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:45 -!- gf3 is now known as rookiepawnshopow 19:26:19 -!- rookiepawnshopow is now known as rookiebrawnpower 19:26:44 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:13 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:22 Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:32:52 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:33:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 19:34:07 QUACKALPACATRON: yeah hi. 19:34:19 em, so, how has your scheme progressed? 19:34:22 I'm Lajla by the way. 19:38:35 typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:41:14 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:06 QUACKALPACATRON: it's spelled: /nick Lajla 19:42:58 pjb, I mean I hasd that nick when I last spoke to her 19:43:03 I have had many names throughout the milennia 19:44:54 lggr_ [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 19:44:54 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:45:32 -!- hiroaki__ [~hiroaki@p5B04B557.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:45:56 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.73.111] has quit [Quit: bye!] 19:46:13 -!- lggr_ [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:46:46 sizz_ [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:00 -!- sizz [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 20:31:58 oh hi lajla 20:32:39 QUACKALPACATRON: well I feel like I probably learned more scheme than most people. I could, if I had to, make a simple program in scheme. I don't have the theoretical understanding or fluent command of the syntax that many in here have though. 20:33:05 Right now I'm learning python. 20:33:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 20:40:08 em, pythjon doesn't have TCO though 20:41:25 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:43:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 20:46:43 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 20:50:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 20:56:45 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:57:08 rotty_ 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