00:06:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 00:07:11 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:35:28 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:42:52 FurryPurs__ [~larry@108-250-133-41.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:46:57 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:40 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 00:50:22 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:16 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 01:12:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:18:35 ok 01:18:40 anything like cacti 01:18:42 done in scheme 01:18:45 grapher? 01:20:34 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-156-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:40:59 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:45 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 01:51:09 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 01:51:41 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away 02:02:17 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:40 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:06:14 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-219-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:17 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:13:25 close-paren` [~close-par@m962036d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 02:14:03 -!- FurryPurs__ [~larry@108-250-133-41.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:49 ijp: Fuck it; why not leave them unadorned? The CL convention is *stars*, though, I think; but if you're using parameter objects with dynamic scope, why not leave them be? 02:28:11 Hyde, for instance, doesn't fuck around with adornment (see Configuration Parameters): . 02:33:01 Yeah, but the CL convention is generally to ignore dynamic variable, to not rebind them 02:33:45 (except for auto-foot-shooting 02:38:39 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 02:50:04 -!- ijp [~user@host86-169-26-98.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:59:22 yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:02:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 03:08:44 -!- jhemann_ [Jason@156-56-195-79.ssl-vpn.indiana.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:12:18 -!- chaotic_good [~g@pool-71-105-238-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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Harry Harrison 07:28:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:29:29 -!- tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:30:17 tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has joined #scheme 07:35:28 wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has joined #scheme 07:47:15 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:39 -!- tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:48:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:15 tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has joined #scheme 07:59:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:19 cong [~cong@183.217.183.121] has joined #scheme 08:07:34 -!- tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:08:17 tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has joined #scheme 08:13:14 -!- cong [~cong@183.217.183.121] has left #scheme 08:16:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.25.222] has joined #scheme 08:22:03 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest96138 08:28:05 -!- close-paren [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: close-paren] 08:28:46 chaotic_good [~g@pool-71-105-238-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:42:22 schemesage!! 08:42:26 reaplce mysql 08:42:29 and ruby rails 08:42:31 with scheme 08:43:03 MySQL is a database engine, not a language. 08:46:11 obv 08:46:14 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-179-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:46:36 acid can be had without db engine www.preavyler.org www.happstack.com 08:48:17 huge win!! 08:48:32 now using 8 core box is my one concern 08:48:42 apparently scsh sunet si limited to 1 cpu 08:48:51 racket I head has multithreading 08:48:56 Im not sure 08:50:23 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-156-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:54:41 choas [~lars@p4FDC51F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:02:35 dzhus [~dzhus@95-24-202-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:04:10 -!- Guest96138 is now known as attila_lendvai 09:04:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.25.222] has quit [Changing host] 09:04:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 09:05:06 mysql rails really badd 09:17:12 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30:02 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 09:35:08 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-52-53.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 09:52:21 -!- tejaswid [~tejaswidp@117.202.24.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:06 no one alive? 09:56:23 Yes, there are still people alive. 09:58:09 hey pjb 09:58:11 whats up 10:00:49 pjb how do you think scheme does vs say haskell? 10:01:04 is scheme more productive and powerful? 10:01:07 No idea. I'm more concerned with Common Lisp. 10:01:21 I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say the opposite either. 10:03:02 commn lisp really lacks a good book 10:03:06 they should do a wikibook 10:03:12 practical comon lisp sucks 10:03:32 and the gentro intro kinda sucks 10:03:40 chaotic_good: did you even read the book 10:03:41 There are a lot of books. Check http://cliki.net/ 10:03:46 its terrible 10:03:52 yes i read fist chapters 10:03:56 its all voer the place 10:04:07 and the fact tht author is not doing lisp startup says volumes 10:04:13 I had copy of ansi common by grahm too 10:04:14 sucked 10:04:20 its liek lisp boosk fucking suck ass 10:04:33 really ahuge problem i think lisp community blind to 10:04:43 I have winston n horn and it not much better 10:04:52 hey, it's gavino 10:04:53 a book must define its terms 10:05:02 not skip into new terrirtory 10:05:06 without definign its terms 10:05:11 lisp boosk do tha tnonstop 10:05:14 so damn anoying 10:05:22 esp for someone who honestly wants to use lisp 10:05:28 -!- chaotic_good is now known as gavino 10:05:30 wingo: that explains a lot ;) 10:05:30 of course 10:05:40 I am most honest learner out there 10:05:45 books suck 10:05:51 need massivel improvement 10:05:55 massive 10:06:00 gavino: learn lisp, write a book. 10:06:12 I should but 1 is hard part lol 10:06:30 I dont get why so hard 10:06:39 to simply write stuff down 10:06:40 wow 10:06:49 adn before use a term 10:06:50 define it 10:06:55 seems simple eh? 10:06:56 Normal people can become quite proficient in lisp in 3 to 6 months. You've been bothering lispers for almost ten years. Imagine what you could do if you stopped trolling and started learning! 10:07:04 maybe they are so innured to academia 10:07:13 they dont get that common man needs taht simple process 10:07:38 ok riddle me this 10:07:45 mv myfile myfile1 10:07:48 on lnux 10:07:53 how do that in lisp? 10:07:59 Different people are going to see different concepts new to them in Lisp 10:08:04 (rename-file "myfile" "myfile1") 10:08:05 ls /home/gavino 10:08:09 how do that in lisp 10:08:26 (directory "/home/gavino/*.*") 10:08:37 Coming from Haskell, the idea of first-class functions is simple to me, but manipulation of code as data not so much. To someone used to Tcl, code as data makes perfect sense, but first-class functions not so much. 10:08:43 Those are trivial questions, you could have learned that ten years ago. 10:09:09 woa 10:09:11 it worked 10:09:13 waaaattt 10:09:17 woaa!! 10:09:36 Although Common Lisp and Tcl do "code as data" in different ways, which I'm only now appreciating the distinction actually does have something fundamental to do with strings vs ... a more direct form of the AST 10:10:05 I love tcl 10:10:08 hmm 10:10:18 well I didnt learn those 2 from gentle intro 10:10:27 and I read it until my eeys crossed 10:10:45 ast? 10:10:58 woa 10:11:05 Abstract Syntax Tree 10:11:05 those commands both worked pjb 10:11:20 nice 10:11:33 Basically: The representation in-memory of code 10:11:36 so what was I expceted to like read the hyperspec? 10:11:41 hmm 10:12:28 gavino: you start reading a tutorial 10:12:30 Of course. After having learn the basic grammar and common terms, you read a dictionnary. 10:12:57 hm 10:12:58 hmm 10:13:07 ok let me open gentle intro 10:13:14 http://l1sp.org/cl is an easy to remember way to get to the CLHS 10:13:31 (and the best way to read a tutorial is without distraction, ergo without IRC) 10:13:36 As is http://clhs.lisp.se but note that that's a copy 10:16:28 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-52-53.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 10:17:27 hmmmmmm 10:17:32 maybe it is me 10:17:37 I have not studied 10:17:41 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-26-82.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:17:46 because of fear 10:17:53 that in end I get nowhere 10:17:57 which is irrational 10:19:14 gavino, you know how in Tcl, the body of an [if] has to be a command, you have to do something? That's not the case in CL, you can have the if just return a value 10:19:38 (Why am I promoting this fact, it's one of the more trivial differences) 10:19:44 for some reason tcl makes things very easy for me 10:19:52 (if (< 1 2) 5 10) gives 5 10:19:59 I am guessing you are going to point to recursion? 10:20:08 Not talking about recursion right now. 10:20:38 see 10:20:47 sometimes lisp seems to brilliantly simple 10:20:47 Look how in Tcl you'd have to do something in the if, like if {1 < 2} {set f 5} else {set f 10} 10:20:55 that must be what its like to know lisp 10:21:05 for math its my fav desktop caclulator 10:21:12 nicer that stupid windows calc 10:21:18 (Although if you have an id proc you can just use that, and lindex happens to work like id when passed one argument) 10:21:28 hm 10:22:10 can you ask a lisp image on machine X a query from box Y? 10:22:25 like can you do webservers stuff, and avoid going to disk 10:22:29 over the network? 10:22:42 and build interactive websites that are fast and avoid disk? 10:22:53 then every so often dump the in ram image? 10:23:04 and all the while logging updates 10:23:09 prevayler style? 10:23:13 www.prevayler.org 10:23:26 I know there was a cl prevalence but not sure its maintained. 10:23:27 There's nothing in the Common Lisp spec about networking, but most implementations have ways to do networking, and there are libraries to abstract over the differences. 10:23:59 now about 16 cpu boxes 10:24:11 can you fork a new lisp interpreter for each connection? 10:24:19 and have it have a conversation with the client? 10:24:28 such that each cpu get sued? 10:24:29 used? 10:24:38 since a interpreter is on 1 cpu right? 10:24:44 but if u fork one....then a ok 10:24:53 except for lots fo ram used I guess 10:25:31 gavino, you're thinking of Tcl. I know at least one CL implementation does OS-level threads 10:25:51 I think paul graham got around needing threads that way 10:26:23 I mean I know linux and the limit would be how many client simultaneously make a change 10:26:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.156] has joined #scheme 10:26:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.156] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 10:26:29 which is not likely so bad 10:26:36 evern with 2,000 people connected 10:26:40 andyjpb [andyjpb@nat/google/x-ziirhefrgggbwzss] has joined #scheme 10:26:48 probly 10 per second avg 10:26:52 change 10:27:05 desktop can handle that 10:27:14 but server might need lots ram 10:27:44 more i learn about programming the dumber work looks 10:27:48 wasteful 10:27:55 slow software 10:28:07 alaricsp [~alaric@love.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:30:20 Sgeo: do you have any lisp powered websites? 10:31:10 No, but I haven't really done any web development to speak of 10:31:33 My most recent actual programming project was in Tcl, because that was the language that fascinated me at the time 10:31:56 tcl makes bash look like stone axe 10:32:19 But the need to use a different implementation due to deployment issues, combined with the difficulties of getting the library I wanted to work with tclkit, caused pain 10:32:30 I always compile 10:32:41 Tcl doesn't compile. It's completely interpreted. 10:32:51 I have script that downloads 8.6 and tcllib and installs it cmpiling 10:33:17 as soon as have 8.6 and tcllib rest somewhat asy 10:33:19 Oh, you mean compiles an interpreter? Sure. 10:33:27 maybe dropa file fo fucntions to load 10:33:35 then hak hak 10:33:39 id never try tclkit 10:33:44 soo many thing go wrong 10:33:53 just copile it up 10:33:54 and hak 10:34:14 I also seem to have been unable to detect a dropped connection. No idea why. 10:34:15 wub seems interesting for web in tcl and wibble 10:34:19 Maybe it's the library I was using 10:34:22 be wild to use simply tcl and nothing more 10:34:27 make ncie interactive website 10:34:47 maybe no timeout 10:34:50 hm 10:35:30 gavino, have you ever tried Seaside? 10:36:08 *Sgeo* has his own bizarre objections to Smalltalk though 10:36:28 gavino, what languages do you know? 10:36:29 nop 10:36:37 bash and bit of tcl 10:36:47 but of forth haskell perl python 10:36:53 tcl probly know best 10:37:24 bit fo common lisp and scheme 10:37:25 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 10:37:39 Well, there are things you can do with Common Lisp macros that you simply cannot do in Tcl. 10:37:52 lisp has always fascinated me 10:38:42 It's a fascinating language 10:39:32 Sgeo, what are those things? 10:40:12 gravicappa, code-walking is the only thing that comes to mind. I must admit I'm not sure when it's useful. cl-cont comes to mind 10:40:57 With Tcl, if a command is passed code (as a string), it has no reliable way of telling which parts of it are intended to be code and which are non-code data 10:40:59 masm [~masm@bl16-219-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:43:07 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:43:18 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:45:37 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 10:46:16 -!- gavino [~g@pool-71-105-238-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:50 I'm sure it has. At least `eval` procedure does it right. Code walking in TCL involves parsing though. 10:49:07 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC51F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:21 *Sgeo* doesn't personally see parsing as that big a deal except for the lack of a built-in Tcl-accessible one. 10:53:41 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:47 The string nature of Tcl means that you can't just rename stuff without, say, a command prefix stored somewhere possibly breaking 10:53:50 zio_tom78 [~user@93-33-247-63.ip47.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:54:00 *Sgeo* intends to write a blog post about that >.> 10:55:59 -!- zio_tom78 [~user@93-33-247-63.ip47.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:57:42 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 10:57:42 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:57:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has 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[~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:00:13 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-dggqyrllezfouxyo] has joined #scheme 22:04:55 -!- phao [phao@187.91.175.63] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 22:11:26 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 22:12:15 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 22:14:35 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:15 copumpkin [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:20 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:20 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:25:48 sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #scheme 22:25:49 -!- sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:58 sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #scheme 22:31:55 close-paren` [~close-par@mae2036d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 22:33:33 -!- close-paren` [~close-par@mae2036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:04 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:01 cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-104-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:00:25 leppie: Thanks for your tweet about my Ruby string parser. ;-) 23:00:52 leppie: I might try to use a similar system for implementing a Scheme reader. ;-) 23:02:57 crundar__ [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:52 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-dggqyrllezfouxyo] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:09:17 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 23:11:29 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:23 yoklov_ [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 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