00:00:55 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:08:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:57 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:22 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:14:34 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.189.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:19 klutometis: because scheme has side effects. 00:16:27 lambda calculus is purely functional. 00:17:58 pjb: So `lambda' is a misnomer; should have been `procedure'. 00:18:50 yes, but it's to motivate you to write functional code, same as scarry bangs. 00:20:20 Clever; Steele and Sussman were consummate propagandists, then, and had perfected a subtle model of the programmer's psyche. 00:20:43 That's what we call commonly "teachers". 00:20:51 Right; or priests, I suppose. 00:21:23 I have more respect for them as a result of this forethought. 00:22:23 There's something clairvoyant about this; maybe they could have played Q in Star Trek. 00:25:23 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:51 tertl3: it's not really the lambda calculus. It has more than lambdas, for one. Lists, numbers, etc. 00:27:27 More accurate to say "inspired by" probably. 00:33:23 ok 00:33:37 just making sure it wasnt ivory tower supremeness 00:33:47 although thats not a bad thing 01:05:17 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 01:05:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:34 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:39 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:11 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 01:17:03 -!- samth [~samth@racket/samth] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:26 Guest70939 [~mike@75-168-34-142.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:17:44 -!- Guest70939 [~mike@75-168-34-142.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:14 Guest70939 [~mike@75-168-34-142.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:19:13 -!- peddie [peddie@repl.esden.net] has left #scheme 01:20:06 -!- phao [phao@187.91.225.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:59 -!- Guest70939 [~mike@75-168-34-142.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:28:40 hill0826 [~hill0826_@75-168-34-142.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:34:16 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:35:56 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:40:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-31-226.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:41:30 Anybody around here? Can anybody explain the reason for the "Premature reference to reserved name: " error (MIT-Scheme)? 01:41:54 Not enough information. 01:46:47 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:47:46 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 01:48:21 I don't understand what the error means or why it's even given. Defining a value recursively within a (define) statement calls the error. E.g., (define (a) (define b b)) calls the error for defining b, even if b is defined in a higher environment. 01:48:37 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 01:49:03 Don't use inner defines. (define (a) (let ((b b)) )) 01:49:16 define is equivalent to letrec. 01:49:32 It's made so that you can easily write recursive inner functions. 01:50:41 :) 01:51:03 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:49 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:24 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:54:34 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-68-34-169-68.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:10 Okay, that helps make sense of it a bit. Thanks! 01:59:28 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 02:02:21 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:26 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:09:38 hill0826: I'd argue that is a particularly unhelpfully phrased error message. :) 02:12:38 Agreed! 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#scheme 13:55:04 -!- lldong [~seraph@183.16.162.50] has left #scheme 13:57:04 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:03:31 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:04:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 14:05:03 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 14:07:44 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 14:09:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-32.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:10:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:46 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 14:17:30 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 14:21:31 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-59-201.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:33:59 chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:38:57 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:48:10 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 14:52:43 dzhus [~dzhus@95-28-55-172.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:52:55 teurastaja [4650315f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.80.49.95] has joined #scheme 14:53:41 theres something bugging me: i dont use macros anymore but id like to know when theyre better than higher order functions 14:55:10 teurastaja: when you would like compile time expansion? 14:55:22 Quadrescence: you'd be able to explain the use cases 14:55:58 teurastaja: macros are useful if you want 1) a new binding construct 2) change evaluation order 3) have a nicer syntax for data. 14:56:07 You can't do any of those with higher-order functions. 14:56:41 teurastaja: here are some example use cases prepared by Quadrescence http://telegraphics.com.au/svn/puzzles/trunk/quad/TWENTY%20CHALLENGES%20FOR%20GREAT%20JUSTICE 14:56:42 http://tinyurl.com/cj3pj39 14:58:13 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:00:37 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:12 heres an example where i couldve used macros but i used higher order functions: 15:02:16 (define find-uniques) (define find-duplicates) (begin (define (find-helper k) (lambda (ls) (let f ([ls ls] [y (list)]) (if (null? ls) y (let ([x (car ls)] [ls (cdr ls)]) (if (k (memv x ls)) (f ls y) (f ls (cons x y)))))))) (set! find-uniques (find-helper (lambda (x) x))) (set! find-uniques (find-helper not))) 15:02:19 oops 15:02:25 sorry 15:02:45 that code is neither worthy of either! 15:04:28 http://paste.lisp.org/+2STU 15:06:32 i coulve used a macro for that but would it be better? 15:07:52 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:08:35 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:34 teurastaja: given the choice you should prefer functions over macros, except maybe when there is a performance gain that you depend on 15:09:53 teurastaja: but for some things functions just won't get the job done. 15:12:01 any examples? 15:15:18 in my example, there is an extra application involved where i used the identity function to make possible the "continuation swap" of the "if" 15:16:21 so find-uniques computes one extra application 15:17:20 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:06 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 15:18:19 teurastaja: yeah, for examples see the link i pasted... 15:20:04 teurastaja: for example http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/sk-automata-macros/ 15:20:05 http://tinyurl.com/26s2zj 15:21:34 teurastaja: in your code snippet, why don't you just use define and not set! 15:21:36 ? 15:22:20 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:21 kk`` [~kk@217.155.42.31] has joined #scheme 15:22:37 because find-helper is not useful afterwards 15:24:22 I don't understand how that has to do with it. 15:24:39 s/how/what/ 15:25:59 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:26:08 And yes, I wouldn't use a macro here most likely for the reason that hkBst_ gave. 15:30:39 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:21 -!- ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:56 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:47 -!- kk`` [~kk@217.155.42.31] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 16:15:44 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 16:18:13 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme 16:18:35 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:19:42 -!- 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