00:09:04 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-2-99-117-85.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:09:05 ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:10:27 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.189.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:37 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:00 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 00:14:42 -!- anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 00:14:46 yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:25:02 ASau, so who's this other Scheming NetBSD hacker you mentioned the other day? 00:26:34 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.38.134] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 00:32:01 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:32:18 bannedwords [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:14 -!- rjj [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:33:17 -!- bannedwords is now known as rjj 00:35:22 woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has joined #scheme 00:35:45 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #scheme 00:39:47 -!- rjj [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:52:20 rjj [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:29 b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:41 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 01:04:59 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:09:58 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #scheme 01:18:59 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-104-160.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:40 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:04 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has joined #scheme 01:28:09 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : pump up the valium] 01:28:18 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:18 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:22 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:23 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-182.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:41:55 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-182.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:43:30 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:52:50 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 01:58:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-182.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:59:06 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:02:48 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-162.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:11:33 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:13:22 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has joined #scheme 02:25:49 i wish to learn scheme, what books do you recommend? 02:26:40 johnarmstrong: I like HtDP 02:26:57 (http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/index.html) 02:29:35 asumu: looks like a good book for programming in general (+ learning scheme) thanks... 02:30:52 johnarmstrong: if you want a book that's purely about Scheme (no general programming stuff), try TSPL: http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/ 02:33:23 asumu: I know java and python fairly well on a sort of amateur level... maybe HtDp would be best, no? 02:34:55 johnarmstrong: I think it'd be worthwhile, yeah. 02:36:28 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-162.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:36:57 asumu: how long have you been using scheme? what do you use it for generally?... it looks very elegant, compared to java... 02:39:35 johnarmstrong: seven years maybe? I work on Racket, so I mainly develop the language itself. But I use Racket for general purpose stuff. 02:39:44 (GUI apps, scripts, etc.) 02:40:34 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:42:37 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-162.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:46:18 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:46 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-162.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:47:49 -!- johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:51:29 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-120.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:58:45 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 03:04:33 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:42 ASau` [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 03:06:22 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 03:09:12 -!- Euthydemus 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[~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 03:41:05 johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has joined #scheme 03:59:11 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:07 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:04:09 -!- johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has left #scheme 04:04:16 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12:44 republican_devil [~g@pool-108-13-142-14.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:12:59 woooo wee websites are pain when no one buys hardware the smart way 04:13:00 :) 04:13:29 need more abstraction 04:13:35 less data duplication 04:13:36 gosh 04:13:41 300G disks wasted 04:13:45 completely wasted 04:18:09 this is #scheme 04:19:04 to run a website on scheme without mysql or a db would be awesome 04:19:12 simply have non duped data in scheme lsits 04:19:14 lsits 04:19:26 heh 04:19:55 then as websites expands 04:19:59 expand box run scheme on 04:20:09 save 99% data by not repeating slef 04:20:17 most mysql rows repeat same crap 6000 times 04:22:39 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 04:25:31 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:03 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 04:28:28 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-150-97.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:08 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-138-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:31:00 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:08 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 04:31:55 oh yeaheahe!! 04:31:59 fuck all the other bs 04:32:01 :) 04:33:11 -!- 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[Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:58:30 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 05:02:46 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:04:19 -!- stamourv [~user@racket/stamourv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:06:38 -!- kumu1 [~g@pool-108-13-142-14.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:56 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:00 kvda [~kvda@124-149-66-115.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:31:13 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 05:31:16 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 05:31:16 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 05:32:12 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-120.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:24 wut 05:36:41 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:47:04 -!- b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:37 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:54 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:14:23 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 06:14:45 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 06:16:29 republican_devil [~g@pool-108-13-142-14.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:19:13 abstraction 06:27:03 wow 06:27:09 good book sicp is 06:27:10 wow 06:27:20 but can I ignore relational databases 06:27:23 and use scheme image 06:27:29 and have decent performance 06:27:35 and far less repeated data 06:27:59 sicne everything is broken into lists that can combine into the links and html I need for my website 06:28:01 jesusito [~user@88.pool85-54-115.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 06:28:03 seems easy enuf 06:39:37 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:39:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:39:37 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:40:46 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:48:05 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 06:50:49 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 06:51:28 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:52:10 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 06:55:15 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 06:56:18 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:43 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 07:03:22 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:03:33 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 07:09:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:59 b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 07:22:10 ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #scheme 07:24:04 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 07:27:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28:04 -!- jesusito [~user@88.pool85-54-115.dynamic.orange.es] has left #scheme 07:42:11 no schemers present? 07:43:00 several :) 07:50:57 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:11 so 07:55:36 I am new to real programming and used to only unix scripting.....which for a decade I kinda mastered. 07:55:56 once one gets the hang of scheme and learns to program 07:56:27 do the file manipulation facilities and regex allow web programming and unix file administration to be easier 07:56:32 than with tcl or bash 07:56:33 ? 07:56:45 I also see lots of data repeated in mysql 07:56:58 I would bet if one didn't repeat same data in row after row 07:57:05 it would save space and performance 07:57:15 that's a question about object-oriented databases in general ;) 07:57:28 what about keeping lists in memory? 07:57:34 you can do all of these things (and more) in Scheme. the exact answers depend on your implementation 07:57:43 can't you save the whole image to disk every so often? 07:57:53 I have gambit and chicken 07:57:55 yes, that's what several Scheme's do 07:58:05 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-149-66-115.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: -___-] 07:58:10 if you use the compiler with these, you don't really get disk images, i believe 07:59:11 because www.prevayler.org project demonstrates that with an update log, and whole in memory data dumped to disk every so often 07:59:16 you can throw away mysql 07:59:24 and just query on data in ram 07:59:32 I dont like java 08:00:09 so query be 100s 1000/second 08:00:14 and on fault 08:00:18 read in big dump 08:00:27 and play updates on it to bring back up to date 08:00:29 !!!! 08:00:31 sounds AWESOME 08:00:55 and with in memory data, you can not repeat any data item 100s of times like I suspect mysql does 08:01:29 wingo [~wingo@49.pool80-102-222.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 08:01:46 -!- wingo [~wingo@49.pool80-102-222.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:58 wingo [~wingo@49.pool80-102-222.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 08:03:46 ecraven: what do you use scheme for? 08:04:46 some web stuff, data analysis, some scripting, and just to play around :) 08:05:23 i mainly use MIT/GNU Scheme, and kawa Scheme for android development 08:05:31 phao [phao@177.77.166.15] has joined #scheme 08:06:50 I saw gnu scheme had a web server 08:07:05 but it seemed like few functions to make a web server not a real server 08:08:29 there are many web frameworks around, i've heard racket has a nice one 08:08:44 yeah I heard it does os threads 08:09:08 then I think the holy grail is like user threads inside each os thread? 08:09:23 are you are pro coder? 08:10:39 pro coder as in "make a living as a coder"? 08:12:54 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:13:06 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 08:14:01 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:14:55 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 08:20:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:57 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 08:21:22 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 08:21:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:21:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:29:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.75.36] has joined #scheme 08:29:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.75.36] has quit [Changing host] 08:29:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 08:30:09 ya 08:30:12 am I boring? 08:30:25 I wish more people talk to me abot thier experiecs using scheme 08:30:31 I am very excited to use it 08:30:40 and wonder if I can solve problems with it 08:30:47 and avoid using crazy shit liek mysql and perl 08:31:12 just pick any problem you want, and try to solve it :) 08:31:26 yes, though i mostly use C# and C++ at work, no Scheme unfortunately 08:35:26 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: antithesis] 08:35:42 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 08:35:51 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:18 soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 08:49:43 :( 08:49:45 not good 08:49:50 imagine u can use scheme nonstop 08:50:05 :) that's what i try to do for my private coding 08:50:22 well what u think if u had own company 08:51:05 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 08:51:08 it might be hard to get local Scheme coders here 08:59:05 inusa? 08:59:12 I am sure people can learn scheme 08:59:23 and onece people get away from mysql and ruby crap 08:59:30 computing can be fun again 08:59:38 -!- tdammers is now known as tail_tdammers 09:00:00 I can only imagine how awesome a team of scheme prevalence layer boxes would speedily run an e commerce shop 09:00:12 ncie big software raid file server to host images n stuff 09:00:17 softraid 10 09:02:05 -!- tail_tdammers is now known as tdammers 09:10:31 adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:18:11 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77b3ec.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:18:24 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066b95.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 09:22:54 ecraven: AFAIK, scheme is taught in universities to all CS students. 09:23:45 ie., I've never met a CS grad or undergrad that hadn't had scheme exposure. Most of them didn't understood what it was good for, but they still had to learn some scheme. 09:23:46 not over here (central europe) 09:24:13 ecraven: are you considering MIS or IT? I mean real CS. 09:24:28 the thing we call "informatics" over here 09:24:50 Are you in France? 09:24:53 republican_devil: what's so bad about ruby? 09:24:56 no, austria 09:25:09 ecraven: Vienna? 09:25:13 ecraven: the Syntax. :-) 09:25:25 hkBst: no, near Linz :) 09:25:29 pjb: Syntax? 09:25:33 ecraven: republican_devil == gavino == troll 09:25:35 oh, ruby 09:25:38 pjb: Not here - we learned ML... 09:26:02 well, i'd rather use ruby than some other languages (but that's personal preference) 09:26:35 ecraven: compare http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/msg/56fce4adeaa79f68 with the equivalent in scheme. 09:27:16 twem2: well, too, of course. I'd expect a CS student to learn half a dozen programming languages. 09:28:00 ML, Java, Prolog, Verilog and then a little C, BCPL and others 09:28:24 no scheme at all :( 09:29:11 That's sad :-/ 09:29:33 masm [~masm@bl18-33-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:32:04 pjb: trolling poor ruby newbs? :D 09:33:42 can't open that link without a google account 09:36:08 That's unfortunate. 09:36:51 news://comp.lang.ruby/?message-id=<87vdspbf7i.fsf@informatimago.com> 09:39:03 works for me with no account 09:39:32 ecraven: if you're logged in into google, it asks your password once a month. 09:52:41 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60256.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:07:53 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: soegaard] 10:14:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:15 touzen [~touzen@h22n10-tb-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 10:15:29 I'm trying to self study SICP, what Scheme should I use and what interpreter? 10:15:38 I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 10:18:28 You will probably find help here for all of the major Schemes 10:19:10 you've got a decent amount of freedom to choose. mit/gnu scheme is i suppose most related to sicp since its mit though it might not matter at all. i have used guile so far to do some of sicp 10:19:47 In no particular order: Racket, Chicken, Gambit, Gauche, MIT/GNU Scheme, Guile, Bigloo, Chibi 10:20:11 All will work fine? 10:20:24 No necessarily :) 10:20:50 But if you run into problems, ask here, they can be fixed for all of them 10:20:56 Ok :) 10:21:11 or , if you run into problems, use a different one ;] 10:21:21 that too :) 10:21:52 what editor are you going to use? 10:22:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:22:42 if you have none, id say go to racket since it has a nice ready-to-go REPL and editor 10:23:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 10:23:57 Does it have vim key bindings? 10:24:03 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:24:48 i dont know. i suspect vim can load up any old scheme repl? 10:25:23 I guess 10:26:07 emacs with swank/slime and MIT/GNU Scheme works well too 10:27:28 yeah lisp is more of an emacs thing than vim thing, but have a search for how to load a repl into vim and it should do everything you need 10:28:32 I know, mostly learning Scheme because 1) it's a pretty bad ass language and 2) I happened to own a copy of SICP and hadn't read it 10:28:42 vim should work fine too, I've just never used it personally 10:29:16 Though I've read about the emacs-scheme symbiosis 10:46:55 -!- rjj [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:47:11 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:48:15 -!- b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:32 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:49:02 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 10:54:16 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:54:37 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:55:34 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:57:14 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:27 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:57:48 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 11:00:23 rjj [~randall@108-80-22-5.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:06:54 palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has joined #scheme 11:07:59 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60256.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:13:16 soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 11:28:07 -!- m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:30:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:30:55 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32:45 -!- phao [phao@177.77.166.15] has left #scheme 11:35:46 m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 11:43:09 Natch_y [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #scheme 11:45:16 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:17 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:18 phao [phao@177.77.166.15] has joined #scheme 11:45:18 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 11:45:18 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:18 -!- Natch_y is now known as Natch 11:45:28 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 11:45:50 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #scheme 11:46:32 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 11:57:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:00 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 11:58:10 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:01:46 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:06:03 -!- phao [phao@177.77.166.15] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 12:08:46 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme 12:12:15 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 12:15:21 adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:17:07 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:47 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 12:32:55 What's the point of the MIT-scheme mode (xscheme) in emacs? I really see no improvement. The keybindings are not as good as the default scheme-mode, and I have to do C-c C-e twice on what ever it is I want it to evaluate. 12:33:24 Only upside I see is you get the return value in the minibuffer which is handy. 12:35:53 i suggest using slime/swank with MIT/GNU Scheme and Emacs :) There's a working swank.scm in the git repository of MIT/GNU Scheme 12:37:01 phao [phao@177.174.78.242] has joined #scheme 12:37:22 ecraven: I saw that you've made some Github project involving Scheme on Android. Is using Scheme to code for Android something you'd recommend or should one just use Java or Clojure? 12:39:10 i'd recommend it, as i prefer less verbosity. clojure is slow as hell on android, as i understand it. 12:39:28 but you're really programming in a hybrid language, as you need to take care of java type declarations every now and then anyway 12:39:56 as an example, the smallest kawa scheme android programs i wrote are about 60k, clojure is several megabytes (both using proguard) 12:40:06 as pretty as FFI I guess, ecraven ;p 12:40:14 though the clojure community is definitely larger than the kawa android community 12:40:35 leppie: hehe, (define (add (x :: int) (y :: int)) :: int (+ x y)) isn't *too* bad 12:40:51 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:41:00 oh, just type annotations, they not bad :) 12:41:17 I thought you meant calling into java classes ;p 12:41:38 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:42:00 na, just call (:parseInteger "foo") or something 12:42:12 it really isn't too bad, just not quite "normal" Scheme 12:43:52 IronScheme has a proper syntactic interface, but it is generally painful to write it inline, especially when overloads and generics are involved, but once compiled it looks just like a call made from C# for example 12:44:19 everything has to resolve at compile time too, no dynamic late binding mumbo jumbo 12:44:35 kawa supports that via reflection 12:44:59 I have writtem some stuff that allows dynamic callsites 12:45:03 it actually works *very* well ;) i've been thinking about trying to get slime/swank to connect to a running kawa application on my phone.. no idea whether that is actually doable, but it *would* work well 12:45:17 and reflects on parameters to determine the best overload, etc 12:46:03 I also have a shorthand syntax system which is quite nice :) 12:47:59 http://xacc.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/ironscheme-clr-shorthand/ 12:50:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:50:49 if i'm working on c# again, i'll have a closer look, i really like the way i can use kawa scheme to program "Java" but not actually have to deal with the language :) 12:52:32 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 12:53:52 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:58:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.137] has joined #scheme 12:58:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.137] has quit [Changing host] 12:58:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 13:03:07 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:07 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:16 -!- attila_lendvai 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[~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:58 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 15:34:22 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #scheme 15:37:01 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:38:02 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:40:19 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:04 -!- abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:18 abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:31 neale [neale-free@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe96:544d] has joined #scheme 15:43:52 The last time I was in here was maybe 5 years ago. Riastradh kicked me out for making some insensitive comments about lilo (the person). I'm back to apologize for that. I hope I didn't offend anyone overmuch, but even if I didn't, I'm truly sorry. I was trying to curry favor by being edgey. 15:45:11 neale: :) 15:45:12 that's a long time ago, not sure anyone else remembers 15:45:13 neale: welcome back 15:46:54 I'd forgotten about it too, until I was coming in to work this morning. I don't know what caused me to remember. 15:47:29 welcome back :) 15:48:08 I won't be here for long, it's been about 4 years since I last used scheme :) 15:48:21 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: soegaard] 15:51:18 :) time to start again! 15:51:24 soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 15:55:37 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:40 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:33 soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 15:58:41 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:58 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 16:06:54 soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 16:08:37 -!- getpwnam [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:07 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:31 -!- abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:17:14 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:18:47 -!- slucx [~lumpy_wx@221.5.81.158] has quit [Quit: gonna sleep] 16:22:32 hm how do I get caddr and pals in chibi? 16:24:53 bipt [~bpt@cpe-173-095-170-102.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:26:11 abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:20 bfi [~b_fin_g@r186-52-128-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 16:31:34 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-138-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:31:36 -!- bfi is now known as bfig 16:32:43 ThePawnBreak [~Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 16:36:06 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:42:21 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:35 -!- neale [neale-free@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe96:544d] has left #scheme 16:45:55 jao [~user@206.Red-88-0-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:02 -!- jao [~user@206.Red-88-0-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:03 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 16:50:05 neale, golly, I don't remember that either. 16:55:46 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@0x5733f4b2.abnxx12.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: soegaard] 16:57:20 sethalves: (define (caddr x) (car (cdr (cdr x)))) 16:57:26 sethalves: for pals I don't know. 16:59:20 pjb -- it's just that the latest r7rs draft suggests they should be there 17:00:00 jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:00:04 on page 32 17:02:42 at least if I (import (scheme base)) 17:17:21 charli_ [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:17:21 charli [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:17:28 -!- charli 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[~brianmwat@65-183-149-118-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has left #scheme 23:36:03 -!- abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39:14 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 23:39:58 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:27 dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:43:01 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:42 dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:44:49 hoi 23:45:29 abel [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:46:07 hola 23:47:26 jcowan: I have the shen repl mostly working with chibi already, but not all tests pass yet (something that is making things a bit harder is chibi's right-to-left order of evaluation, some internals in shen expect left-to-right) 23:48:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:07 Given that you have to support curried functions anyway, you probably shouldn't use Scheme procedures directly. 23:50:02 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:04 jcowan: oh, the current version does 23:50:13 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 23:50:27 jcowan: but for example, shen doesn't have a 'begin' equivalent, but it has 'do' 23:50:29 What approach do you take to curried primitives, then? 23:50:36 the problem is that 'do' isn't syntax, it is a procedure 23:50:40 *jcowan* nods. 23:50:42 (do expr1 expr2) 23:51:39 jcowan: I have a "curried" macro that I use in place of lambda, the current implementation is naive and depends on apply, I have to try something that compiles to case-lambda later 23:51:53 *jcowan* nods. 23:52:05 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:19 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 23:52:50 another problem with 'do' not being syntax is that it makes procedures that would be tail-recursive with something like 'begin' not be so anymore 23:53:07 not a problem in my implementation because I translate instances of 'do' to 'begin' 23:56:34 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:36 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:11 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #scheme 23:58:48 Three days left until the R7RS-small comment period closes, and WG members will have 15 days to vote on the last ballot (assuming no major critique lands within those three days) 23:59:52 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:58 I've already voted. If all goes well, a new draft will then appear.