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[~potato@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:56:23 peeeep [~potato@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:07:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-212.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:07:58 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 06:10:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:12:07 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 06:15:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-19.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:15:37 -!- tumbly [~tom@204.28.244.29] has left #scheme 06:17:45 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #scheme 06:18:30 ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-39-185.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:19:03 What's the smallest Scheme you can make? 06:19:31 That is, the smallest with all the building blocks necessary to build 06:20:16 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:24:29 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:24:30 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:24:30 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:24:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:26:26 ancestral, there have been schemes built for microcontrollers 06:28:01 Quadrescence: citation needed 06:28:26 http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ 06:28:28 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-0-110.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:28:40 another: www.iro.umontreal.ca/~feeley/papers/FeeleyDubeLL03.pdf 06:29:01 jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:29:39 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 06:29:54 Cool. So let me rephrase 06:30:22 What are the most minimal procedures necessary in a Scheme implementation? 06:31:11 eval, apply 06:31:13 I'm looking on Wikipedia and it just seems like there's like a hundred standard procedures in R5RS 06:31:18 eval and apply? 06:34:52 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 06:35:06 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-0-110.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:35:41 What? I have to click a hyperlink and wait for another web page to load? 06:35:46 That is soooo 1995 06:35:47 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-26.html#%_sec_4.1.1 06:35:59 Ah there we go 06:36:21 ancestral, set!, eval, apply, lambda, begin, if/cond. Datatypes: integers, strings 06:36:33 quote 06:36:36 ancestral: Note that that is page 364 in a long book 06:37:26 add "cons" to datatypes 06:37:54 and then you need all of the primitive operations on those data types. 06:38:07 Hmm 06:41:34 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #scheme 06:41:42 hi! 06:42:08 -!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-39-185.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai] 06:42:11 hi 06:42:30 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:43 Apparently "real Schemes" need http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#reference 06:43:11 that is correct 06:44:20 if you are interested in this stuff, read SICP 06:46:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:47:02 -!- kunsel [~kunsel@ip-109-47-113-173.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:47:51 Quadrescence: all datatypes and primitive operations on them can be implemented only with lambda. 06:49:04 pjb: source? 06:49:12 pjb, I'm inferring that Aethaeryn is not interested in Church encodings and whatnot. As such, I've decided to give a practical answer. 06:49:41 Quadrescence: ancestral, not Aethaeryn. 06:49:46 sorry yeah 06:49:48 He disconnected about 7 minutes ago 06:49:52 Aethaeryn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus 06:50:03 pjb, Plus, the standard states that the data types must be disjoint: procedure? cannot return #t for an integer. 06:50:35 pjb: Is there a lambda calculus in S expressions somewhere on the Internet? I'm a bit too busy to learn new syntax. 06:50:37 Quadrescence: it's as trivial to add the typed layer over lambda calculus as it is over usual von-neuman processors. 06:50:50 Aethaeryn: there are a ton of them yes. 06:51:06 Aethaeryn: http://paste.lisp.org/display/130147 06:51:11 (in CL) 06:51:40 Cool 06:52:16 (define zero (lambda (f) (lambda (x) x))) 06:52:25 (define one (lambda (f) (lambda (x) (f x)))) 06:52:41  06:52:55 Right, I remember now reading pg's essays about how numbers and even strings can be constructed, they're just slow. 06:53:09 Not at all. 06:53:33 Eg. multiplication is O(1) in church numerals, but o(n*m) or something in binary. 06:53:44 http://paulgraham.com/hundred.html 06:53:53 "" 06:53:59 "Could a programming language go so far as to get rid of numbers as a fundamental data type? I ask this not so much as a serious question as as a way to play chicken with the future." 06:54:03 (define mult (lambda (m) (lambda (n) (lambda (f) (m (n f)))))) ; O(1) 06:54:44 How about the complexity of equivalence? Arguably more important. 06:54:54 Aethaeryn: it seems obvious that in the future, indeed a programming language will get rid of numbers as fundamental data type: it will just rebuild maths from the axioms. 06:55:38 pjb: Actually, that would be a pretty fun learning exercise, even if it's horribly slow. 06:55:56 Aethaeryn, It's in SICP, chapter 2. 06:56:07 Quadrescence: indeed. Strangely enough, fixed size words seems to offer a lot in terms of simplification and efficiency. But you can of course implement bits and bytes in lambda calculus. 06:56:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:57:10 Aethaeryn: and by the way, it's much easier to implement scheme in lambda calculus, than to try to implement scheme (or C) in Turing Machines. 06:57:12 pjb: It is kind of amazing how circular things are. 06:57:23 Nothing circular here. 06:57:30 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:56 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:58:07 Someone once told me that "it's all just 1s and 0s" in a conversation where I had previously brought up Lisp, to which I replied, "no, it's all just S-expressions". 06:58:40 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:59:10 cf. The Big Bang Theory: does physics subsume biologie or does biology subsume physics? 07:02:01 Clearly math subsumes both of those fields. 07:02:26 Aethaeryn: maths are created in the minds of biological brains, therefore biology subsumes maths. 07:03:10 Yes, I saw that episode. 07:03:22 Or, you may believe like I do that mathematical beings have an existence outside of our brain, that God is a mathematical being, and the universe a lambda-calculus program. 07:03:48 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:03:53 pjb: Yes, but is it a Lisp-1 or a Lisp-2? 07:04:07 lambda calculus is lisp-1: it's lower level. 07:06:29 Okay, so the universe is a Lisp-1. Holy war solved, now we have an objective statement we can point to next time an argument comes up. ;-P 07:06:54 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 07:07:19 pjb, nice lambda calculus code. 07:08:19 Except for (error "There's a bug.") :) 07:10:37 -!- b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:07 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:19 http://xkcd.com/435/ 07:13:18 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-0-110.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:15:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:21:12 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:25:11 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 07:37:48 mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 07:43:37 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 07:45:02 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:23 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 07:48:12 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 07:52:52 keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB6A41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:57:32 soegaard [~soegaard@188.183.250.62] has joined #scheme 08:01:56 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:48 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:13:06 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 08:17:45 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:18 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 08:19:26 snizzo_ [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 08:20:35 reading htdp, it speaks of drscheme ... drscheme bring to racket, Parabola have the racket software ... is that the right way of scheme? or am i getting out of the voice? 08:23:07 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:24:04 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:25:41 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:06 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 08:29:17 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 08:30:30 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:40 -!- snizzo_ is now known as snizzo 08:37:13 ok ... it's chicken that i need! 08:44:23 maybe it should be fine to have in the # topic to use http://call-cc.org/ ... 08:49:05 strange name ... but the fact is that chicken on barbecue is the best taste! --good-receipe 8-P 08:54:07 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:54:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:58:28 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:59:20 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-240.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:00:23 aurelien: racket and chicken are two different scheme(-like) implementations 09:00:56 See: #chicken and #racket 09:01:13 And there's also a #guile channel 09:04:55 There might be others. 09:05:09 Specific implementations tend to have their own channels. 09:05:46 i am completly newb ... trying to follow the sicp and htdp ... i use emacs in parabola ... so ... to learn and practice scheme ... and to try to keep it simple ... what is the way?? (for scheme) 09:07:06 just works with guile to practice scheme? 09:10:31 *aurelien* reformulate ... 09:10:42 can i pratice scheme with guile? 09:10:57 yes, guile is Scheme 09:11:06 ok thanks ecraven! 09:15:54 -!- eni is now known as albacker 09:16:00 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:16:00 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 09:20:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21:46 woonie [~woonie@bb121-7-16-181.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 09:24:04 -!- albacker is now known as eni 09:28:49 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:21 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 09:33:06 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-240.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:40:27 aurelien: If you read HTDP it is best to use DrRacket. Get it here http://racket-lang.org/download/ 09:49:45 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-29-153.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:55:10 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-133-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-237-230.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- igibson [~turnip@128.249.96.10] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:10 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:55:28 soegaard, if guile is usuable with it ... i prefer to continue with it ... for little brain like me it's always better to keep things simple ... Parabola / StumpWM / Emacs / Guile ... and lets go for years of studying :-) 09:55:32 igibson [~turnip@128.249.96.10] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-133-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 pothos [~pothos@114-36-237-230.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 09:56:41 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #scheme 09:57:47 aurelien: How far are you in HtDP? The teach packs (most importantly the graphics packs) and language levels are only in DrRacket, not in Guile. 09:58:25 soegaard: I am not saying you can't use Guile, just that HtDP was written to fit with DrRacket. 09:58:56 ok 10:00:20 well since guile is scheme like someone before said ... since guile is gnu ... i prefer follow the gnu :P ... and if it really don't fit with htdp ... i have a purple books on my side 10:01:58 Due to the license? Racket uses LGPL FWIW. 10:02:10 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:03:43 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:07:14 aurelien: There are actually two GNU schemes, MIT/GNU Scheme and Guile. Scheme's that fragmented. http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ 10:08:28 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations 10:08:57 There's probably one written only by left-handed people if that's what someone really wants to look for. 10:09:27 ok thanks Aethaeryn great! 10:09:36 time for lunch! 10:10:10 (i don't search left-handed people ... just a free way) but that will make the trick :-) 10:12:41 freedom flag have no color ... /me goes this time ... thanks for all and see you soon! 10:12:43 aurelien: Most Schemes are free. 10:12:47 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:15:48 wingo [~wingo@48.pool80-102-218.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 10:21:19 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:51:14 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-108.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:52:32 lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-79-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 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[~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:11:51 woops, just commented on something for r7rs-small past the deadline 14:16:04 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:17:11 confab [~confab@50.13.178.125] has joined #scheme 14:17:30 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:21:29 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 14:21:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-1.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:25:47 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.101] has joined #scheme 14:33:24 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-204.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:33:48 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:41 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:37:59 Quadrescence: I thought the deadline was extended? 14:38:04 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-204.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:40:08 Oh, then I missed that memo. 14:41:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 14:41:56 It's now July 15th, IIRC. 14:43:37 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:29 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:12 -!- henne__ [~quassel@91-67-165-122-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:00 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:13:13 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:16:23 sethalves [~user@ext.nat.phx.lindenlab.com] has joined #scheme 15:19:47 snizzo [~quassel@158.110.153.86] has joined #scheme 15:25:09 *ski* double-checks the calendar 15:28:45 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 15:31:41 -!- Arafangion` [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:51 langmartin [~user@68-186-113-4.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:39:37 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:40:56 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 15:44:44 http://es.php.net/lsb hee hee 15:49:08 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:54:42 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:03:00 wingo: looks like a lexical vs dynamic scope issue (although I know nothing about PHP) 16:06:12 gah 16:06:34 wingo: how dare you put this in here. 16:06:38 *FurnaceBoy* opens a window 16:06:51 *ski* closes a file 16:06:53 :) 16:06:58 *FurnaceBoy* flushes a buffer 16:07:25 maybe next release they will add "early dynamic binding" 16:07:54 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-172-162.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:25 wingo: fractal, bad, design, etc. :<> 16:14:28 arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:15:12 amoe [~amoe@host-2-96-232-62.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 16:21:42 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:09 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 16:24:30 woonie [~woonie@bb121-7-16-181.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 16:26:39 woonie2 [~woonie@bb121-7-16-181.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 16:28:53 -!- woonie [~woonie@bb121-7-16-181.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:33:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:34:20 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : BRB] 16:34:42 -!- Guest41325 is now known as z0d 16:34:47 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:34:47 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 16:34:48 arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:37:16 -!- anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:37:46 -!- confab [~confab@50.13.178.125] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:38:34 anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 16:38:46 wingo: Thanks for the laugh. I remember being shocked when I found out how PHP handles scope. 16:41:00 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:41:09 soegaard: the crazy thing is that they only added "late static binding" recently :) 16:41:30 i haven't looked into it seriously, maybe it's sensible, but the name is nonsensical 16:43:39 wingo: i don't advise into looking 'seriously' into anything php might do. 16:43:50 wingo: the abyss gazes also into you, etc. 16:44:15 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-204.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:24 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48:40 If I remember correctly (I ran from PHP 10 years ago) then in the equivalent to (define (f) (define (g) )) there is no way in the body of g to refer to local variables in f. Only variables local to g or global variables can be referred to. 16:50:08 soegaard: apparently you can now 16:50:56 http://es.php.net/manual/en/functions.anonymous.php see the "use" syntax 16:51:52 -!- snizzo [~quassel@158.110.153.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:52:31 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:54:43 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:56 wingo: Thanks. I couldn't find out when it was introduced. Closures are relatively new I see. 16:58:19 kudkudyak [~user@94.72.168.142] has joined #scheme 16:58:30 seems to be a thin wrapper on top of classes 17:00:32 pierreghz [~pierreghz@cust-219-60-111-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:00 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:08:32 jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:16:33 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:26:28 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:28:12 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 17:37:09 -!- b4283 [~user@114-47-0-80.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:26 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:31 ijp [~user@host31-52-140-191.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:39:49 b4283 [~user@114-47-0-80.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:07 -!- 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joined #scheme 19:09:24 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:55 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:34 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 19:16:37 phao_ [phao@177.77.158.235] has joined #scheme 19:18:36 foof: Please disregard previous ping. 19:20:05 -!- phao_ [phao@177.77.158.235] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:28 -!- phao [phao@177.27.9.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:20:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-19.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:27:05 youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:27:55 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:59 arcfide, you should use the TCP; then you can send a RST packet to abort negotiation of a conversation. 19:30:55 phao [phao@177.77.158.235] has joined #scheme 19:32:20 Riastradh: Indeed. 19:33:35 snizzo [~Claudio@host241-235-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:40:17 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:41:33 wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has joined #scheme 19:41:34 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:52:01 phao_ [phao@177.160.106.18] has joined #scheme 19:52:35 -!- phao [phao@177.77.158.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:45 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 20:00:07 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest52922 20:00:54 -!- phao_ [phao@177.160.106.18] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 20:01:23 -!- Guest52922 is now known as X-Scale 20:01:24 phao [phao@177.160.106.18] has joined #scheme 20:05:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:15 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:25 freakazoid [seanl@setsuna.literati.org] has joined #scheme 20:34:15 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:46 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:43:21 -!- Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:49 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Suthe] 20:48:46 -!- anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:49:00 anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 20:51:57 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:32 keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB6A41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:00:36 -!- soegaard [~soegaard@188.183.250.62] has quit [Quit: soegaard] 21:02:46 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:11 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #scheme 21:05:11 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:53 yow, 150 unread scheme-reports messages! 21:15:24 wingo: Soon to be more as I am transcribing another. :-) 21:15:34 Actually, it will probably go to wg1, not to the reports list. 21:17:37 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:50 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:20:37 it is good that the deadline has come, things stalled otherwise 21:21:25 i'm generally anti-coercion, but some time deadlines do seem to be necessary to get people to prioritize 21:21:37 in the 1.9 series, in Guile we had time-based releases 21:22:06 i was reading Mumford then and he said something that clocks were the ultimate machines, because they made people to be its cogs 21:22:30 and indeed the monthly work really pressed it out of all of us, for better and for worse (and there was a good quantity of both) 21:26:04 sometimes i think we need to go back to it... 21:35:10 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nhwtvcrncuvsqetl] has joined #scheme 21:41:22 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 21:46:26 b4283` [~user@114-47-12-74.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:49:09 -!- b4283 [~user@114-47-0-80.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:30 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has joined #scheme 21:50:15 -!- choas [~lars@p5795C7CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:57:19 Cute: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/721 21:58:00 (Sorry, requires JavaScript, although you can probably get the text of the quiz out of it pretty easily by visual inspection.) 21:58:01 heya Riastradh 21:58:24 i tried that some while ago and did not ace it! 21:58:35 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:58:53 I aced it except for the questions whose answers were wrong unless you actually read the introductory text, which who does? 21:58:58 c's numbers are ficticious beings 21:59:29 wdyt about wg1, Riastradh ? 21:59:43 *wingo* opens worm-can 22:00:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:00:28 do you still hack on mit-scheme, Riastradh ? 22:00:48 *wingo* fills the question-queue 22:00:58 WG1: Don't know; haven't looked in a while. MIT Scheme: Occasionally. 22:01:19 I haven't committed anything in a little while. 22:06:20 Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:07:38 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@host241-235-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:19 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:09:24 Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:29 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:17:22 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:33 -!- kudkudyak [~user@94.72.168.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:23:19 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:24:15 Hmm. There are some pretty badly wrong things in that quiz, actually. 22:28:15 Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-232-106.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:28:15 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-232-106.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 22:28:15 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 22:30:08 langmartin [~user@68-186-113-4.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:30:16 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-oltuvvwmlxojkdhy] has joined #scheme 22:38:30 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:39:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:03 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:50:11 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-159-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:52:38 -!- freakazoid [seanl@setsuna.literati.org] has left #scheme 22:57:44 Wow: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=18556 22:59:55 foof: you sound surprised. 23:01:46 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB6A41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:06 well, a decade is a pretty long time to not fix a bug 23:05:45 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-oltuvvwmlxojkdhy] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:06:12 *FurnaceBoy* is fascinated by the unwarrantedly high expectations 23:12:06 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:16:54 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 23:20:36 What are the major implementations of Scheme? 23:20:48 The lists of implementations tend to be too, uh, inclusive. 23:24:43 Aethaeryn: Guile, Chez, Gambit, Ypsilon, Chicken, Chibi... 23:25:10 there are many implementations with probably as many possible use cases 23:25:17 Racket too 23:25:29 s/major/largest 23:25:44 not sure I'd include ypsilon in that list 23:26:05 I know #racket, #guile, and #chicken are active on Freenode. 23:26:29 Chibi is major in the sense that it tracks r7rs, yes. Different definition than I was looking for, though. 23:27:01 largest in terms of what? 23:27:03 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:28:20 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:30:53 anothervenue: Well, I'm building a sort of "family tree" of Lisp, based on Wikipedia and a few other sources, just for fun and because I like doing this sort of stuff. 23:31:11 Clearly, I can't put every Lisp and Scheme in this tree, since it would, well, be very useless for human visual parsing if I did. 23:31:19 Are you doing Tree Recursion??? 23:31:46 No, I can't actually represent it as a tree since certain Lisps (e.g. Common Lisp) claim multiple predecessors. 23:31:54 So it's just a graph. 23:32:01 You should do a paternity test 23:32:24 Who is Common Lisp's baby daddy? 23:32:55 Lisp Machine Lisp, MACLISP, and InterLisp. 23:33:09 Aethaeryn, it's called zetalisp afaik 23:33:10 Except Lisp Machine Lisp is itself descended from MACLISP so it's a bit incestuous. 23:33:17 weirdo: I was going off of Wikipedia, ZetaLisp redirects 23:33:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zetalisp 23:33:40 there's no proper noun 'lisp machine lisp' 23:33:44 Apparently, Lisp Machine Lisp is the family, and ZetaLisp is the largest implementation. 23:33:45 see how far wikipedia gets you? 23:33:52 :) 23:34:13 Yes, there is, weirdo. It's what the dialect(s) of Lisp on the Lisp machines were called before the name Zetalisp was invented. 23:34:24 It's okay, though, since I'm only going to be providing implementations for Scheme and Common Lisp, and only a few large ones, since again, otherwise the evolutionary dead ends clog the tree. 23:34:40 s/tree/graph 23:34:45 or chart, or whatever the technical term is 23:34:50 List 23:34:56 IRC's very good about providing the technically correct term, whether you want to know it or not 23:35:02 Aethaeryn, just don't mention newlisp :) 23:35:23 Riastradh, i stand corrected 23:35:23 I'm not even mentioning Dylan. 23:35:34 The biases are going toward living lisps. 23:35:55 In old Lisp code, you can find lots of #+lispm #+multics #+pdp10 &c. 23:35:59 so you're listing implementations or languages? 23:36:00 or both? 23:36:14 (Even #+nil, *not* meaning `just omit this' -- rather, meaning `only for the New Implementation of Lisp'!) 23:36:55 Good lord 23:37:45 I'm listing dialects that are either living or of current significance, and major living implementations: ("LISP" "MACLISP" "InterLisp" "Lisp Machine Lisp" "Emacs Lisp" "Common Lisp" ("cmucl" "sbcl" "clisp") "Scheme" ("PLT" "Racket" "Chicken" "Guile") "Clojure") is what I have right now 23:38:02 Of course, as I said, a Lisp list is not ideal for this format, since, e.g. PLT -> Racket and cmucl -> sbcl, etc. 23:38:05 It's complex. 23:38:41 Racket is the new name for the same project that was formerly called PLT Scheme. SBCL is a fork of CMUCL. 23:38:48 Aethaeryn, for CL, also mention clozure 23:38:52 Isn't PLT eqv? Racket? 23:39:06 spork is a fork of spoon 23:39:06 Interestingly enough, Racket is slowly evolving into its own distinct language. 23:39:23 This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. 23:39:57 Again, good lawd 23:40:06 One concern with Common Lisp is that its size and lack of recent updates kind of makes it a dead end, even though it's still active there's not really any new evolution going on. 23:40:17 It did that a long time ago, and not merely in some de facto evolutionary sense but in a formalized way so that you can tell Racket what language your program is in when you load it into Racket. 23:40:51 Aethaeryn, CL is extensible enough to survive 23:40:58 it has e.g. CLOS, read macros 23:41:08 I didn't say that it would die, I just said that there isn't new evolution that's apparent. 23:41:19 well 23:41:20 At least not as dramatic as in Scheme. 23:41:39 confab [~confab@50.13.178.125] has joined #scheme 23:42:50 i hardly see anything new in r7rs 23:43:09 well, records, #u8 vectors 23:43:16 but nothing really new 23:43:17 r7rs-large is going to be larger than Common Lisp (at least the wg2 people claim this), so that's quite a change! 23:43:23 Why are there so many implementations?? 23:43:31 anothervenue: r5rs is 50 pages. 23:43:38 :) 23:43:58 Aethaeryn: that answer only works if implementations are r5rs-compliant, which few really are 23:44:02 anothervenue: each one is a personal shrine! 23:44:15 anothervenue: NIH, and OMG I can do it in a weekend 23:44:43 FurnaceBoy: personal shrine to what? 23:44:55 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:45:06 -!- bweaver [~weaver@unaffiliated/bweaver] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 23:45:07 There seem to be three distinct major Lisp families -- classic (Emacs Lisp, Common Lisp), Scheme, and Clojure. 23:45:16 anothervenue: to R5RS or some other deity! 23:45:17 For the large living dialects 23:45:47 please don't lump elisp and cl together... 23:45:48 :) 23:46:10 also, elisp doesn't live outside of being an emacs scripting language 23:46:12 weirdo: They're different dialects, but they're close. 23:46:19 it's hardly a general-purpose language 23:46:21 At least, closer relatively speaking than the other living dialects. 23:46:38 weirdo: Also, emacs lisp is *really* popular, even if it's domain-specific. 23:46:47 FurnaceBoy: still don't get it, are each one different enough to justify their existences? 23:46:53 https://github.com/languages/Emacs%20Lisp 23:47:04 Aethaeryn: you might want to also add IsLisp and/or Le-Lisp to your graph. 23:47:07 -!- wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:12 anothervenue: hahahahahahaha 23:47:20 There's more EmacsLisp on Github than any other major living dialect 23:47:32 Aethaeryn: You may want to make an INFOGRAPHIC 23:47:35 This does *not* make Emacs Lisp the most popular, it just means that it's popular 23:47:41 anothervenue: I already have one on paper 23:47:46 Cool 23:47:53 I'm just trying to translate it :-P 23:48:02 into graphics or info? 23:48:07 anothervenue: mostly people just want to say that they've written a scheme implementation 23:48:09 Use Lisp. 23:48:14 It definitely has to be an image. 23:48:53 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-56.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:54 There's a lot of data. Implementation vs. dialect, "multiple inheritence", and even the general dividing line of families. 23:49:03 ijp: So, would it be prudent to make an infographic of "Lisps People Program In"? 23:49:28 Aethaeryn, is this just procrastination? 23:49:37 M-x run-scheme! 23:49:38 :) 23:49:38 anothervenue: certainly it makes more sense than including every single one jerked-out semi-lisp 23:50:04 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: bedtime] 23:50:10 anothervenue: http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/js-lisps.html is a list of just the js lisps 23:50:15 M-x write-another-scheme 23:50:22 It automatically writes an r5rs for you 23:50:35 is moritz here? I'd like to thank him for this site, it's excellent for making this point. 23:51:02 If not, hes prolly in #chicken 23:54:05 Lisp is like Go, it took me like an hour to learn it, but I will never be all that good 0.0 23:54:06 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.28.174] has joined #scheme 23:54:25 Go is hard 23:54:30 i can understand good Lisp programs 23:54:47 as for Go, i hardly understand indention between good moves 23:55:01 Isn't that sort of a definition of a good lisp program? 23:55:20 I'm just saying, I get the rules, I just suck at playing. 23:55:35 anothervenue: good way to put it 23:55:45 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:56:01 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:35 Lisp is still more fun than most programming languages though 23:58:44 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nhwtvcrncuvsqetl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:59:08 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]