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[~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:03:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:04:28 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 16:09:35 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:12:06 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71bd5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:19 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #scheme 16:18:24 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:46 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 16:23:52 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:23:57 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:04 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme 16:27:50 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: yes leaving] 16:28:38 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-175-7.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:00 -!- adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-100-182.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:36:08 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 16:36:18 Is it a bad idea to recommend SICP to someone who's new at programming? 16:37:03 -!- fowl [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:03 fowl [~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth] has joined #scheme 16:37:04 Also, had no idea which Scheme to recommend, so I said Racket with setting #lang r5rs 16:37:10 I think that may have been a bad idae 16:37:11 idea 16:37:50 Sgeo | Is it a bad idea to recommend SICP to someone who's new at programming? // I don't think so 16:38:15 Sgeo: 'depending' a bit on whether some math will scare them to the hills 16:38:33 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #scheme 16:38:55 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:25 -!- az [~ans@jb.znaider.de] has left #scheme 16:45:23 Althalus99 [5ceed20e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.238.210.14] has joined #scheme 16:45:27 Hi Althalus99 16:45:39 qu1j0t3, Althalus99 is the person who's new to programming 16:46:06 Althalus99: ola 16:46:22 Hola to you too. 16:47:04 So... what do you recommend I start with? 16:47:34 oh, i think SICP is valuable to all programmers... 16:47:35 I mean language-wise. 16:47:40 which flavour of scheme? 16:47:49 Althalus99, this channel is for the Scheme language 16:48:01 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:06 So, any question like "Which language should I start with" will get a biased answer 16:48:08 i used chicken so far with sicp but i don't think it can handle all chapters 16:48:32 Althalus99: what's your objective in learning programming? 16:48:32 I have no idea.which flavour. How do I even get started? Is Racket good? 16:48:47 Racket isn't Scheme, but can do Scheme, which is why I mentioned it. 16:48:59 Althalus99: Racket would be fine too, i think. Some chapters may require MIT Scheme. I'm not sure, i'm not up to them yet. People in here will know. 16:49:42 Well, no particular goal, for now I would like to just learn. 16:50:41 I know nothing about programming except one or two commands in CAOS. 16:51:08 (CAOS is a language used for add-ons in a series of games called Creatures) 16:52:32 I mean, qu1j0t3, I'd quite like to program video games,a nd I want to take the region lock off of a DVD player. 16:52:50 qu1j0t3: On the contrary, thanks to Neil Van Dyke, Racket is better than MIT Scheme which will not be able to handle some parts. 16:53:42 eli, can you help me here. I just want to get started, in a general sort of way. 16:54:20 Althalus99: Help you with what? 16:54:50 Getting started programming, presumably 16:55:03 eli: I just want to learn to program, starting with scheme. 16:55:46 Althalus99: Damn, what a beautiful foundation. 16:55:59 I can't even imagine if I hadn't wasted neural pathways on Von Neumann languages. 16:56:30 klutometis: Are you being serious? 16:56:31 Althalus99: If you're a complete newbie, my recommendation would be to install Racket from http://racket-lang.org/ and then start reading http://htdp.org/ 16:57:09 O.K. 16:57:13 Althalus99: Yes; and head straight for , skip go; and collect $200. 16:57:22 Don't fuck around with htpd. 16:58:12 klutometis: The contempt you have for people is amazing. 16:58:22 klutometis: Um, what do I do on that site? 16:58:55 ijp [~user@host86-182-156-99.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:59:19 Althalus99: He's pointing at a book that -- given that you're a complete newbie -- will not be a good idea for you to start with. 16:59:42 eli: ok good 2 know (re mit scheme v racket) 16:59:43 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 16:59:48 eli, oh, my fault for thinking it would be a good idea 17:00:04 That's why I pointed em to Scheme in the first place, actually >.> 17:00:32 meet an essential schism of #scheme ;) 17:00:36 frankly I think either is fine. 17:00:46 Scheme's a great start, period. 17:01:14 Sgeo: as you can see in this channel opinions vary, but for someone who is completely new to programming, SICP can be a disaster. 17:01:31 And have actually proven itself as such, in many cases. 17:01:36 But where do I learn it?! I'm going nuts here! 17:01:46 Althalus99, that's what people in here are arguing about 17:02:03 Help! Just let eli talk a minute. 17:02:44 eli, what do you think? 17:03:01 Althalus99: The site that I pointed you at will introduce programming in general, it should be easy to read, and when you're done with that you can go on to other books and/or other languages. 17:03:36 O.K. I'll try it. 17:04:15 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60161.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:05:06 Althalus99, as a plus, eli's link is geared with Racket in mind 17:05:17 Although a very old version, apparently 17:06:11 brb 17:06:54 I should probably do SICP myself at some point 17:07:32 Ooh, there's an epub version 17:07:43 *qu1j0t3* has it on his kindle 17:07:48 *qu1j0t3* can't do exercises ont he bus though 17:09:02 *Sgeo* is not the most likely person to do exercises :/ 17:11:47 Okay, back. 17:12:05 Sgeo: then you are doing, at best, half the work 17:12:44 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 17:13:11 I'm In the UK, how do I download Racket? 17:13:39 Doesn't matter where you are 17:13:43 http://racket-lang.org/download/ 17:13:46 What OS are you on? 17:14:08 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:54 Sgeo: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 17:15:25 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:25 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:15:57 Ok, so in the drop down box on that page, choose Windows (x64, 64-bit) 17:16:00 Then click Download 17:19:11 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:19:24 The 32 bit version is fine too -- the difference on windows between the two isn't relevant for most people. (Unless you're on a 32 bit machine, of course.) 17:20:16 mgodshall [~mgodshall@76.161.200.249] has joined #scheme 17:20:17 What location do I choose, as I am in the UK? 17:21:19 Althalus99, the only difference is how fast the download will go 17:21:35 Unless one of them isn't working, and if that's the case, it has nothing to do with you being in the UK 17:21:40 But I would guess the Germany one? 17:21:49 O.K. 17:21:54 If you get it wrong, the worst that will happen is the download will go slow. 17:23:54 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60161.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:24:44 Okay, thanks guys. I'll fiddle around with this and C++. 17:24:44 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60161.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:25:03 o.O 17:25:19 what? 17:25:40 Am I not allowed to use C++ as well? 17:25:52 sure 17:25:54 :) 17:26:17 it would be very wise to mix with somehting else less arcane though 17:26:27 Scheme should do 17:26:48 C++ alone would give an impoverished view of what programming is about, imho 17:27:24 Since he wanted to work with hardware at some point (the DVD thing) I suggested C, not sure if that's a good idea 17:27:24 but really, try many languages 17:27:53 chicken + c 17:27:55 :> 17:27:59 well, C for embedded/drivers basically / C++ was meant as an applications prog lang believe it or not... 17:28:05 fowl: :) 17:28:30 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:29:08 Sgeo: DVD thing? i missed it in scrollback 17:29:40 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:29:54 qu1j0t3: I want to take the region lock off of a DVD plaver 17:30:41 hm.. 17:30:56 learning C++ won't get you any closer to that objective. 17:31:56 MUCH later on, and it's not by any means my only goal; for instance I want to program video games or even make my own game engine. 17:32:42 you can do that in pretty much any language, just that C++ has a particularly high barrier to entry and learning curve 17:32:45 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #scheme 17:32:50 Furthermore, I REALLY want to learn C++ 17:32:55 any reason? 17:33:37 No, if I'm honest, other than I like the layout of all the buttons. 17:33:48 no, i mean to learn C++ 17:34:14 That's what I was talking about... 17:34:16 I think he's referring to the IDE that he found 17:34:28 He saw Dev-C++ at some point 17:34:29 hrm. well, it's a very difficult environment, especially for a beginner. 17:34:34 Sgeo: No! 17:34:45 Wait, what's an IDE? 17:34:50 Althalus99: C++ can't help you with the DVD issue, if that's what you mean. 17:35:01 Althalus99: integrated development environment 17:35:41 I want to do the DVD thing much later on, so it really doesn't matter yet... 17:37:05 Althalus99, it's a program to help with programming. Usually has a specialized text editor and a bunch of other things, often with a button to run the program, etc. 17:37:09 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:37:13 Can sometimes try to guess what you're typing 17:37:15 Things like that 17:37:20 Dev-C++ is an example of an IDE 17:37:56 How do I quit? I'll be back either later or just at some point. 17:38:26 Is it /QUIT? 17:38:39 yes 17:38:42 You can do that, but you don't have to 17:38:50 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:38:54 You can just stay in here and not pay attention 17:39:05 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:39:48 or /part 17:41:31 Okay. Wish me luck. I'm going to try out C++ and if it doesn't work I'll try Scheme. Actually I'll try that anyway, but for now it's C++; I'll watch some tutorials on YouTube. Have fun without me (here to annoy you). 17:41:43 Althalus99: no, you should use Scheme either way. 17:41:52 Althalus99: C++ alone is not going to be a good education 17:42:40 I said I will, but I'm trying out C++ :) 17:43:11 right, but don't stop there, that's all. it's a big world, there's much more interesting and helpful stuff out there. :) 17:47:09 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:30 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:07 mmc [~michal@178-85-63-248.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 17:52:40 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:19 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #scheme 17:58:35 -!- FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:35 FireFly [~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly] has joined #scheme 18:00:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has 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jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 20:31:05 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 20:40:34 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f769970.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:40:45 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066c66.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:20 rudybot: eval (cr '(0 1 2 3)) 20:43:20 ski: your scheme sandbox is ready 20:43:20 ski: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: cr in module: 'program 20:47:37 *ijp* frowns at ski 20:47:57 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-33-144.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:51:41 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 20:53:01 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066c66.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:53:12 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d06755b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:38 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:41 ski: eval (cr '(0 1 2 3)) 21:02:17 eli: ; Value: (0 1 2 3) 21:06:50 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:07:50 ski: I've seen it called `identity' and `values' but not `cr'. 21:08:13 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-232-211.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:07 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:10:20 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:10:21 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:10:21 -!- getpwnam [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:11:45 pothos [~pothos@114-36-224-219.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:08 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:44 eli : i was musing over `c(a|d)*r' 21:22:55 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #scheme 21:27:05 -!- kudkudyak [~user@94.72.159.56] has 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[~jay@s10.BMT-w1.vectant.ne.jp] has quit [Changing host] 22:47:16 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 23:04:21 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:05:02 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:00 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:58 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:13:31 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-24-61-11-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:38 -!- jonaskoelker [~jonas@d58c5bd2.rev.dansknet.dk] has left #scheme 23:28:45 ski: Ah, I didn't even think about that... 23:29:00 I actually had it in here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9152279/ 23:30:59 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.123.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:40 realitygrill 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