00:03:48 -!- fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:01 fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has joined #scheme 00:05:08 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:05:54 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 00:07:17 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:07:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-108-32.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:08:32 -!- acedia [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:45 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 00:08:46 acedia [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 00:09:10 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:10:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-46.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:10:41 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:32 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-108-32.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:24:02 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:25:29 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:27:05 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:33:39 -!- ijp [~user@host86-173-115-88.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 00:39:21 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-32-176.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:41:57 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:41:58 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:41:58 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 00:42:15 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:45 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-15-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:42:46 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-48-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:30 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: class] 00:56:34 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:07 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:17 -!- bfgun is now known as bfig 01:23:31 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:25:09 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xjlprvgdmezanpjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:15 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #scheme 01:36:56 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@178-164-243-68.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:38:18 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kjofoflgpryikntr] has joined #scheme 01:42:01 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 01:43:11 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:43:20 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 01:50:13 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:53:05 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 01:56:18 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 01:57:44 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:53 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:00:37 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 02:06:08 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:03 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:04 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:09:04 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 02:10:24 klutometis: (1) Racket is a non-Scheme Lisp dialect in almost the same way that any other practical Scheme implementation is "non-Scheme"; 02:10:29 (2) The *central* point of R6RS was to get a library system in, which should have brought Scheme up to a practical-yet-still-minimal language -- a library system that works nicely with hygienic macros; 02:10:33 (3) Yes, this is something that was inspired by PLT Scheme, but that's mainly because it has been using a robust module system for a long time and therefore it had the most experience; 02:10:37 (4) In particular, this was not an attempt to "kidnap \"Scheme\"" in some way, it was rather the opposite: make other Schemes enjoy the same benefits; 02:10:40 (5) The ironically sad point is how this central point was lost in a sea of (typical Schemer-style) bickering on the particular hue that was used in the bikeshed -- that, and the obnoxious "PLT mafia" stupidities (recall also Matthias's comment that "R6RS is perfect" -- this was exactly the motivation for that comment: the fact that just getting a library system is what should have mattered the most); 02:10:44 oh no he's counting again 02:10:57 (And meanwhile Scheme becomes a language that devours its own "community") 02:11:01 (6) Another ironic point that many R6RS-bashers miss is that R6RS was *successful* in how it is now expected that modern Schemes should have a library system that cooperates with hygienic macros -- Chicken being the perfect example of a group of people that vehemently objected to R6RS yet did get such a library system; 02:11:05 (7) And the miserable punchline is that R7RS set out as a "re-do everything starting from R5RS" -- ignoring major parts of R6RS, yet -- as now expected -- it does implement this central point... the miserable part that makes this a sad story is that R7RS whimpingly avoids the macro issues which is a step *backward* from R6RS, and in addition this crippled library system is deliberately different than the one in R6RS; 02:11:07 *offby1* changes the channel name to #church-door 02:11:08 (8) Yes, the big language is supposed to get some low-level macro system -- but if it (the big language) happens then it looks like it will be a different system (I'll skip the reasons for that, and the merit of that decision), but as of yet the "\"Scheme community\"" has responded to the big language with one giant collective yawn. (Hence ijp's comment about the big language being a bait and switch.) 02:11:20 offby1: church-door? 02:11:33 let's see if you get up to 95 02:11:47 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses) 02:12:32 Ah -- wrong religion... 02:15:24 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-78.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:16:11 offby1: he may be counting, but only you count off-by-1 02:16:23 eli: can't you go to 11) 02:16:23 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-63-248.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:16:30 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:16:46 (9) ... 02:16:49 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066692.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:16:50 (10) ... 02:16:52 wait... 02:16:54 cheat! 02:16:55 (11) Profit! 02:17:04 damn okay i was punk'd 02:18:03 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066692.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 02:19:22 Eli's points 1-6 are entirely correct, especially 6. 02:19:39 jcowan: hi stranger 02:19:47 7: This conflates R7RS and R7RS-small 02:20:00 i can't argue with 9 and 10 02:20:09 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:16 8: I deny that there has been any such "giant collective yawn" 02:20:28 Most of the discussion time in my LispNYC presentation was about the large system. 02:20:40 leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.74] has joined #scheme 02:20:54 It's just that there's not much to say yet, because it turns out that we don't have the energy to work on the small and large languages jointly. 02:20:55 granted there may not be any _collective_ yawns but many of mine are surely giant 02:21:42 QED. 02:23:32 The fact that there's not much information in no way proves a lack of interest in the topic. 02:23:38 eli: hush, such things will only reinforce offby1's secret conviction that the world revolves around his digit. 02:23:41 So I don't follow your logic. 02:23:49 qu1j0t3: Surely his bigit? 02:23:55 jcowan: i have no comment 02:24:26 Alas, Gambit and MIT-Scheme still refuse to get module systems. 02:24:29 -!- qu1j0t3 is now known as bug-1 02:24:51 Can't they use the Chicken approach with the magic foo#bar names? 02:25:34 But more seriously: the yawn -- whatever form it takes -- is basically an indication of the ineffective artificial division of the language. Note that in the beginning there was that much hyped illusion that the division will help since some people care only about the so called "gem like core", and some people only care about a practical batteries included language -- and since then this whole division proved to be 02:25:34 bogus. 02:25:56 Gambit does have namespaces. Building a module system (especially a hygienic one) on top of this is actually non-trivial, and none of the attempts have been included into the core. 02:27:43 Doubtless foof can explain how Chibi has been a miserable failure with zero uptake, since Scheme users are only interested in large-scale Schemes. 02:28:18 :) 02:28:42 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:30:47 jcowan: It's the other way: everybody cares about the small one -- a counter example should be someon (or some implementation) that doesn't care about the small language. That original poing that is now clearly bogus is that there's some crowed that wouldn't care where the small language ends up as long as the big one is what they like. 02:31:23 Since the large subsumes the small, I don't see how that's even possible. 02:31:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:31:48 R7RS-large = R7RS-small + enhanced features (if any) + required modules (if any) + optional modules. 02:32:03 So if you care about the large language, you inevitably care about the small language. 02:32:24 Indeed, the membership of WG2 is currently a subset of the WG1 membership, which surprised me but should not have. 02:33:00 Right, that's another point in the real QED. (For how it's possible to expect that, see some of the pre-r7 discussions about the split.) 02:33:26 Pointer to those discussions? 02:34:36 The mailing lists (r6 and scheme-reports). (Sorry, but I certainly don't intend to go through that mud and try to find concrete examples.) 02:35:27 -!- turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:14 Okay, I'm working my way through both. 02:38:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:38:24 araujo: boa noite. 02:40:13 So hypothetically someone could say, "Yes, I like R7RS-large, but I don't care which particular libraries are in R7RS-small", but that's a 02:40:35 squimmy_ [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has joined #scheme 02:40:37 Note some modules (be they required or optional) imply core changes to the language and cannot truly be considered separate from the list of enhanced features. 02:40:37 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:40:41 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:04 wow, he didn't even stay to finish his sentence. 02:41:44 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:42:12 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 02:43:09 Notably low-level hygienic macros, which in addition to not being implementable in terms of high-level macros, also may (or may not) involve an extension to the module system for phasing separation. 02:43:14 -!- squimmy [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:57 Likewise threads affect the core language. 02:44:58 I think those are the only changes we're considering which impact the core though. 02:45:30 Then there is the class of modules which have no impact on the core but cannot be portably implemented, such as filesystem and networking interfaces. 02:51:47 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:54:08 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:19 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:32 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:56:43 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:32 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #scheme 03:09:21 Oh, delimited continuations probably fit into the list of features impacting the core. 03:10:26 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:16:50 -!- confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:18:25 confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:32:06 ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 03:39:57 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 03:42:46 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:44:19 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:17 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 04:01:23 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #scheme 04:06:09 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:19:08 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kjofoflgpryikntr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:55 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:10 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 04:36:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-108-32.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37:25 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-231-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:45:58 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:47:03 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 04:47:04 la la la 04:47:49 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:22 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-149.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:55:12 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: class] 04:57:47 peeeep [~potato@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:58:54 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:59:00 rudybot: sacre bleu 04:59:06 bug-1: sacre vache! 04:59:11 youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:59:34 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:59:50 -!- finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:59:56 finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #scheme 05:00:01 -!- bug-1 is now known as qu1j0t3 05:03:27 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-50-18-28-110.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:03:42 rudybot [~luser@ec2-50-18-28-110.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 05:09:04 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:49 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-149.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:13:51 -!- squimmy_ [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:15:07 leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.74] has joined #scheme 05:22:35 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:34:29 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:37:35 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 05:43:46 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:18 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:13 squimmy [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has joined #scheme 05:46:29 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:09 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #scheme 05:51:33 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:52:35 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:58:39 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:24 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:25 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 06:06:36 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:08:33 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 06:25:28 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:31:45 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 06:44:16 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.10.98] has joined #scheme 06:48:10 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:48:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:48:27 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:49:25 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:04:42 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 07:10:10 mmc [~michal@178-85-63-248.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 07:12:21 -!- Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.10.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:12:43 albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:17:24 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-63-248.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:23:50 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28:08 aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-66.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:34:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-231-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:06 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 07:42:39 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:43:38 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:29 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 07:51:50 ahinki [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 07:53:26 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:54:35 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 08:05:09 I still don't get call/cc. 08:05:41 I mean, I get it, but I don't have any idea when I'd want to use it. 08:08:06 one simple example is escaping out of deep recursion fast (like searching inside a tree) 08:08:22 ah, ok 08:09:34 -!- ASau` [~user@95-28-124-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:57 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:10 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:17:14 ASau` [~user@95-28-124-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:19:19 leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.21] has joined #scheme 08:20:56 lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-12-107.adsl.only.fr] has joined #scheme 08:24:13 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #scheme 08:25:34 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 08:28:30 -!- ASau` [~user@95-28-124-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:04 ASau [~user@95-28-124-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:38:57 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #scheme 08:40:38 I'm reading the book Lisp in Small Pieces in which they are writing a scheme-like eval in scheme, they have a function (define (invoke fn args) (if (procedure? fn) (fn args) ... )) 08:40:52 Wouldn't it it have to be (apply fn args) ? 08:42:52 Borbus: yes, it should be 08:43:10 otherwise you get all arguments passed as one list 08:43:22 And fn is a function 08:44:19 that doesn't matter, you don't need FUNCALL like in CL, you can just use it like that. 08:44:47 So a function evaluate to itself? 08:45:04 (define (map fn lst) (if (null? lst) '() (cons (fn (car lst)) (map fn (cdr lst))))) is a simplified definition of MAP 08:45:05 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:30 Borbus: the parameter fn is bound to a function. when applied, the function is applied.. Scheme is a Lisp-1, no different namespaces for anything 08:48:21 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-66.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:58:25 albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:05:16 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:59 Ah it seems I wasn't paying enough attention because in the scheme-like language the lambda makes functions that have only one list as an argument, so that invoke function is correct 09:07:29 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 09:11:54 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: yes leaving] 09:31:59 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:35:13 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:23 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:05:57 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-mnxghaxsowukgtug] has joined #scheme 10:06:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 10:10:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 10:15:16 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:16:25 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71900e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 10:21:19 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-mnxghaxsowukgtug] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:23:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:36:33 -!- lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-12-107.adsl.only.fr] has left #scheme 10:46:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:47:14 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:48:09 masm [~masm@bl18-59-158.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:01:01 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:01:29 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 11:03:08 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:04:08 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 11:20:21 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71900e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:21:02 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:51 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.16.66] has joined #scheme 11:27:54 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 11:29:07 Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has joined #scheme 11:30:46 jeapostrophe [~jay@s10.BMT-w1.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:30:46 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@s10.BMT-w1.vectant.ne.jp] has quit [Changing host] 11:30:46 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 11:32:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-236-45.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 11:32:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-236-45.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:32:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 11:53:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:48 Random question: I've just started implementing vectors today. Why are they not self-evaluating..? 12:00:22 Does scheme reserve the ability to make them evaluable..? #(+ 1 2 3) ==> 6 for example? 12:00:24 Language design choice. 12:00:35 In CL they're self-evaluating. 12:00:40 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 12:00:53 LeoNerd: but IIRC, it's just not specified, an implementation make them so. 12:01:34 See: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-2.html#%_toc_%_sec_4.1 12:01:35 http://tinyurl.com/7mn3fwg 12:01:42 Ah OK 12:01:46 it's not forbidden to make them self evaluable AFAIK. 12:02:35 Ahh righty 12:06:05 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:06:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:29 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15:18 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: yes leaving] 12:15:33 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 12:17:15 tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 12:22:22 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:05 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:30 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:23:31 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:04 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:24:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24:30 tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 12:29:13 LeoNerd is everywhere! :P 12:29:28 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:48 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:35:33 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:37:21 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:38:13 -!- fowl [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:55 -!- mgsk [~Mark@li357-97.members.linode.com] has left #scheme 12:41:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-236-45.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 12:41:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-236-45.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 12:41:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 12:41:43 mgsk [~Mark@li357-97.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 12:43:08 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:44:52 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-128-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:45:31 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:47:34 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:48:31 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-15-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:00 leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.21] has joined #scheme 12:52:02 LeoNerd: the (R6RS) macro system supports vector patterns 12:52:48 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:56:57 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:57:02 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:57:47 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:57:55 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:04:01 Aahyes 13:04:22 Actually I think R5 does as well. But anyway, asides from in macros, I've now implemented vectors. :) So that's one fewer thing missing from R5 13:05:07 All I need now is values and call-with-values, non-integer numbers, delay and force, call/cc and continuations, let-syntax, quasiquoting,... 13:08:24 io ports, read/print/eval as Scheme-visible functions,... 13:09:03 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:14:14 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:17:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:20:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:22:31 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.16.66] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 13:24:36 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:25:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:46 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:29:44 I wonder what of that list will be easiest to do. I suspect continuations and MV are related, and I'll do them last 13:33:27 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:34:01 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:34:23 woonie [~woonie@softbank126119159127.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:35 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39:50 -!- woonie [~woonie@softbank126119159127.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:46:50 utmostest [~utmostest@AAubervilliers-551-1-169-22.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:47:53 hi 13:48:39 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 13:48:59 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 13:56:49 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:56 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:58:20 -!- utmostest [~utmostest@AAubervilliers-551-1-169-22.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:01 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:05:36 -!- ahinki [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120509070325]] 14:09:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl5401CBFB.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #scheme 14:09:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl5401CBFB.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 14:12:29 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:17 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:16:50 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:18:22 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:56 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:27:11 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:49 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 14:29:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:30 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:16 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:32:08 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:34:42 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:36:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 14:37:21 imphasing [~Alex@adsl-068-209-039-007.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 14:37:47 Is it incorrect for a define call, inside of a let, to bind the symbol inside the let's environment, and not the global one? 14:37:54 should define always define in the top level environment? 14:38:23 i don't think that is specified. 14:38:37 but i could be wrong 14:38:42 imphasing: no, define may also define inside inner lexical scopes. 14:38:57 That's one of the features I don't like in scheme, but it's definitely what's specified. 14:39:02 pjb: ah. 14:39:19 Ah, ok :) 14:39:35 imphasing: it's better style to use a variety of LET. 14:39:35 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-8.html#%_sec_5.2.2 14:39:36 http://tinyurl.com/yeea76h 14:39:42 internal definitions 14:39:44 Then my behavoir is correct I guess :D 14:41:10 -!- Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:44:08 getpwnam [~ian@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 14:44:12 jonathansizz [~ian@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 14:44:43 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 14:44:43 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme 14:46:16 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:59 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:30 qu1j0t3, imphasing: It's very much an intentional feature -- and part of what makes the language symmetric. (There is a wart in R5RS that was fixed in R6RS with using `letrec*' semantics for definitions to make top-level and nested definitions more symmetric.) 14:54:06 I consider inner defines to be OK 14:54:09 And yes, common-lispers dislike that feature. (They're used to a non-uniform language...) 14:54:59 Many prefer them. 14:56:24 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:00:04 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tnfvopbvkjdjnwkb] has joined #scheme 15:00:40 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066692.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:00:51 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77b707.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:01:07 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #scheme 15:03:21 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:07:32 albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:11:42 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgcwypxlbrtsvqhq] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:24 eli: I noticed (via rudybot) that racket's letrec is basically letrec* (well a non-R6RS form thereof), is that right? 15:14:50 s/basically/ 15:15:18 letrec* guarantees to evaluate each binding in lexical order, as let* does 15:15:35 letrec makes no guarantees about its ordering. letrec* is an acceptable implementation of letrec however 15:15:42 (whereas let* cannot implement let) 15:19:07 LeoNerd: R6RS letrec* is not compatible with it's letrec 15:19:34 slightly different semantic and requires runtime support too 15:19:38 Hrmmmm 15:20:00 i was just wondering what racket does :) 15:22:27 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:52 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:24:30 hi leppie 15:25:24 leppie: Yes, Racket uses `letrec*'. (And IIRC, a `letrec*' is fine as the way to implement the r5rs `letrec'.) 15:25:57 Ahhh 15:26:07 that's the confusion. What's the difference between r5 and r6's letrec then? 15:26:40 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 15:26:49 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@adsl-71-156-37-233.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:02 I don't remember offhand... 15:28:51 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: yes leaving] 15:29:08 LeoNerd: So the r5rs point is in some language lawyer way, which specifies that "it is an error"; and r6rs further restricts it by talking about its interaction with continuation (which can expose unwanted behavior). 15:29:29 Oooh.. weird error/continuation interactions 15:29:52 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77b707.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:30:04 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76844d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:08 Not too weird -- it's common for continuations to expose such implementation details. 15:31:56 I've been pondering continuations and TCMC, also 15:33:53 TCMC? 15:33:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 15:34:23 tailcall-modulo-cons 15:34:34 It says that EXPR is a tailcall in (cons foo EXPR) 15:34:52 It allows you to write lots of list-returning functions in a simple natural way, and have them linear in space and nicely efficient 15:44:24 i1126 [~i1126@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme 15:45:44 -!- i1126 [~i1126@85.88.17.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:52 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-unamagtogkbjjbdg] has joined #scheme 15:45:56 i1126 [~i1126@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme 15:47:33 ijp [~user@host86-151-72-152.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:48:23 Have any of you guys implement TCO in a scheme before? That's sort of next on my list, but the way my evaluator works is basically like a tree reduction algorithm, and I can't ever know if, for instance, I'm currently inside a function call.. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking of functions as tail calls, but expressions rather :/ 15:48:48 Yes. 15:49:23 TCO is basically an optimization of the stack frames. If you can reuse a stack frame instead of allocating a new one, you can collapse a JSR/RET into a JMP. 15:49:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:19 Yeah, I get that part, but I'm having a hard time translating that into my evaluator, since I don't use any kind of virtual machine, I just have a stack based tree reducer basically.. I guess I should re-use a stack frame for an expression reduction in all cases, if it's a tail call, not just if it's a function call in a tail position :/ 15:51:20 Well, you seem to have an interpreter. TCO is a compiler optimization 15:51:43 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has left #scheme 15:52:36 Yeah, it's an interpreter, but I thought it would be possible to implement that for it, or hoped it would be :X 15:52:57 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:40 On the other hand, you may exploit TCO in your interpreter, so that stack doesn't grow when interpreting recursive tail calls. 15:54:19 LeoNerd: According to R5/6 the following should be an error: (letrec ((b 1)(a b)) a) 15:54:43 while (letrec* ((b 1)(a b)) a) is not according to R6RS 15:55:48 eli: I dont see how this way can be fine following the standard definition of letrec 15:56:33 rudybot: (letrec ((b 1)(a b)) a) 15:56:34 leppie: your sandbox is ready 15:56:34 leppie: ; Value: 1 15:57:10 if not an error the value should be some 'undefined' or 'uninitialized' value 15:57:19 unless 1 is this value :) 15:59:02 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:47 imphasing: pjb is wrong -- what Scheme implementations are required to implement is these days more known as tail call elimination, because it is more than just an optimization that you do when you can. 16:00:04 ijp` [~user@host86-162-110-152.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:00:05 leppie: Does R5 say that's an error, or does it simply say that's not defined..? 16:00:07 For mutual recursion, that can be implemented using trampoline calls. 16:00:23 leppie: If it's simply not defined, then obviously we can do anything... including the "right" thing 16:00:37 imphasing: And he's also wrong about compilation -- the issue is still there in interpreters. 16:00:50 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 16:01:03 leppie: The relevant text is: An error situation that implementations are not required to detect is usually referred to simply as "an error." 16:01:14 LeoNerd: "an error" is the way r5rs says not defined 16:01:20 ah, eli beat me to it 16:01:31 So it is an error to write such code, and it's fine for the implementation to just do something reasonable. 16:01:43 Ahh 16:01:45 Probably. I'm losing myself in the metalinguistic tower when writing interpreters 16:01:53 I eventually make them compilers. 16:01:55 (And "reasonable" is subjective hence maximizing flame fun.) 16:01:56 -!- ijp [~user@host86-151-72-152.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:02:00 So it's more the difference that letrec* allows the programmer to write constructions that letrec is not defined for 16:02:01 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 16:02:48 pjb: Still, you can run into exactly the same issues -- though in Scheme there's the popular hobby of implementing scheme in scheme which often gets you a properly TCE evaluator without even being aware of the issue. 16:03:02 (Which is exactly why TCE is so great...) 16:04:39 *qu1j0t3* hands out flamethrowers all round 16:05:39 rudybot: do you have the hose ready in case it goes out of control? 16:05:39 ijp: gnome on debian managed to hose their screen savers again recently and I then manually installed it to get it working again. 16:07:44 dat reflective tower.. I skipped it and did ER-style macros instead :| 16:07:49 <-- cheater 16:13:26 eli: I do realise that. I guess I like knowing the expectation when something does not go to plan instead of doing something completely unplanned 16:14:09 that is probably the primary reason I like R6RS 16:14:27 *leppie* feels like a 1 man band now ;p 16:14:48 leppie: Do you do left-to-right evaluation? 16:16:39 yes, but I also follow the correct expansion (although redundent in the 'do-the-fuck-what-you-want' version of Scheme) of letrec, meaning (letrec ((b 1)(a b)) a) returns some default or undefined value 16:16:59 rudybot: (letrec ((b 666)(a b)) a) 16:16:59 leppie: ; Value: 666 16:17:05 devil 16:18:56 leppie: No, I'm saying that something like (list (read) (read)) is broken in the same way as relying on a `letrec*' semantics. 16:19:23 Yet all schemes allow relying on such a thing. 16:19:55 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 16:20:08 At some point I played with the idea of making Racket's r5rs language even more strict by randomizing the evaluation order for each application... 16:20:21 hehe, eli :p 16:20:26 that would be nasty 16:20:31 That would probably be too much fun for most people... 16:21:31 I like the notion of relying on undefined behavior to be punished (by death preferably) 16:21:51 but that is not the scheme way it seems :( 16:23:18 *ijp* ponders writing a "scheme" in which (define (set-car! c o) (exit 1)) (define (set-cdr! c o) (exit 1)) 16:23:56 string-set! too, while I'm at it 16:25:04 eli: I'm surprised racket allows string mutation 16:25:22 I'd have thought you'd do away with that when you made pairs immutable 16:27:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:32:55 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:42:23 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 16:42:30 leppie: I completely agree; which is why I think that a specified LtR is saner -- otherwise there's a lot of sense in such a randomized-order language. (And I view people who want unspecified order but would object to randomized order as contradicting their own point.) 16:43:10 mmc [~michal@178-85-63-248.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 16:43:34 ijp: re `set-c[ad]r!' -- that was actually one of the proposals when we switched to immutable pairs, only in a more straightforward way: (define (set-car! p x) (error ...)) 16:44:31 ijp: And re strings -- that's only for strings that are generated by code, and many such functions should probably be made to return immutable strings though that's a tricky decision to make. 16:44:50 rudybot: (define foo "blah") 16:44:51 eli: your "http://tmp.barzilay.org/values.rkt" sandbox is ready 16:44:51 eli: Done. 16:44:57 rudybot: init racket 16:44:57 eli: your sandbox is ready 16:45:00 rudybot: (define foo "blah") 16:45:00 eli: Done. 16:45:13 rudybot: (sring-set! foo 0 #\B) 16:45:13 eli: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: sring-set! in module: 'program 16:45:19 rudybot: (string-set! foo 0 #\B) 16:45:19 eli: error: string-set!: expects type as 1st argument, given: "blah"; other arguments were: 0 #\B 16:45:39 eli: guile does the same thing 16:45:42 rudybot: (let ([foo (substring foo 0 3)]) (string-set! foo 0 #\B) foo) 16:45:42 eli: ; Value: "Bla" 16:45:48 rudybot: (let ([foo (substring foo 0 4)]) (string-set! foo 0 #\B) foo) 16:45:48 eli: ; Value: "Blah" 16:46:00 I specifically want that last thing to break... 16:46:09 foof: yes fk should be a lambda but checkout match-gen-or-step, there an fk argument entered as a non lambda! 16:46:12 Otherwise you have to do a conditional to avoid copying. 16:48:44 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:57:25 In IronScheme I just return the 'same type' of string, mutable -> mutable & immutable -> immutable 16:57:50 fowl [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:58:29 I also rely heavily on .NET to do the right thing :) 16:59:23 leppie: The problem is with code that assumes that something like (string-append foo "") produces a mutable string. 16:59:45 never! ;p 17:00:11 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:00:24 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 17:01:03 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD601E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:01:17 rudybot: (eq? "blah" (substring "blah" 0 4)) 17:01:17 leppie: ; Value: #f 17:01:51 in that case .NET does the bloody wrong thing ;p 17:03:06 leppie: ironscheme confuses me so, but I want to contribute :< 17:03:12 I've been trying to learn the codebase 17:03:18 But it's pretty far from what I understand D: 17:03:47 dont bother with the C# stuff, look at the scheme stuff :) 17:04:30 i dont want any new C# in the codebase 17:04:40 ah, okay 17:04:51 the Scheme stuff is simplistic at best 17:04:58 The only decent way to learn Scheme is to have a go at implementing it :) 17:05:14 LeoNerd: that is the one way to do it 17:05:23 I've implemented my hacked up version of "almost close to not really r5rs" in C# 17:05:30 but I think I've gone as far as I can with that now 17:05:42 imphasing: Do you have continuations yet? 17:05:46 LeoNerd: yeah 17:05:50 and ER-style macros 17:05:51 Ooh.. fancy 17:07:10 ijp` [~user@host109-150-133-238.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:08:25 imphasing: add ER-style macros to IronScheme :p 17:08:44 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-128-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:44 psh you've got syntax-rules! 17:10:10 I guess you run psyntax, isn't there some lower level macro facility you bolt that on top of? 17:10:17 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:49 -!- ijp [~user@host86-162-110-152.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:13:05 I guess I misundertood what psyntax is.. kinda nifty 17:14:12 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:14:22 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 17:16:50 ijp` [~user@host86-182-157-171.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:19:55 -!- ijp [~user@host109-150-133-238.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:17 dzhus [~dzhus@128-72-23-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:22:22 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 17:24:26 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 17:24:38 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:18 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:17 imphasing: psyntax is very nice when you can understand it a little 17:30:39 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:58 -!- ijp` [~user@host86-182-157-171.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:37:45 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 17:46:39 ijp [~user@host86-162-111-13.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:46 turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has joined #scheme 17:54:22 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:38 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:50 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:21 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 18:08:17 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip70-162-88-143.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:27 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip70-162-88-143.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:27 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:19:19 leppie: I'd *like* it if that (eq? "blah" (substring "blah" 0 4)) would be true... 18:21:23 eli: also (eq? (substring "blah" 2 4) (substring "blah" 2 4)) 18:21:55 maybe pushing it? ;p 18:24:27 tuubow [adityavit@conference/itp/x-whlfbquwoilbikjh] has joined #scheme 18:25:17 ddp [~ddp@64.134.228.199] has joined #scheme 18:27:01 not scheme-related per se, but is table based lexing still practical in a unicode world? 18:28:39 leppie: Yeah that's pushing it -- if the result is mutable then I wouldn't mind it, but it could be a performance disaster to keep a potentially gigantic intern table. 18:30:21 leppie: BTW, IIUC, guile allows substring to share the storage with the parent string -- that's also a nice feature, but dangerous by default since the substring will keep a reference to the whole string. 18:31:23 ijp: i dont see why not, my lexer generator I use for my Scheme reader is Unicode capable 18:31:53 leppie: but the tables would be _huge_ 18:31:56 I keep a table of symbols, to ensure all symbols of the same name are the same object.. I use a factory, could potentially use that same concept for strings, but for anythign with lots of strings that would probably get unweildy :O 18:31:56 Depends. You could easily cache the last result of pure functions. 18:32:03 i guess the tables are better optimized, i recall an 'compress tables' option 18:32:57 imphasing: Yes, that's what interning means... 18:33:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:58 :3 18:34:02 TIL 18:35:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:36:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:41:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:41 -!- ddp [~ddp@64.134.228.199] has quit [Quit: ddp] 18:46:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:50:10 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 18:54:58 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:55:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:26 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:49 ddp [~ddp@ip-64-134-228-199.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:58 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme 19:22:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 19:22:59 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:37:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 19:41:11 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:50:52 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-231.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:51:39 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:16 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-79.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:56:35 ASau` [~user@95-26-251-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:56:37 albert-sicp [~albert-si@ip-64-134-239-122.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:27 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-124-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:03 graspee [~graspee@02dd1c10.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 20:16:38 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:20:08 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:22:15 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:37 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 20:25:25 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:58 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:33:04 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@ip-64-134-239-122.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:01 albert-sicp [~albert-si@ip-64-134-239-122.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 20:38:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:42:33 -!- graspee [~graspee@02dd1c10.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 20:44:50 jonaskoelker [~jonas@d58c5bd2.rev.dansknet.dk] has joined #scheme 20:45:30 geez, #lisp is traumatic if you don't drink the #'kool-aid 20:50:57 philcrissman [~philcriss@c-174-53-217-149.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:45 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@ip-64-134-239-122.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #scheme 20:57:46 -!- imphasing [~Alex@adsl-068-209-039-007.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:00:15 -!- getpwnam [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:41 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:41 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:01:14 There's #clnoobs for touchy newbies. 21:01:27 jeapostrophe [~jay@s10.BMT-w1.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:01:27 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@s10.BMT-w1.vectant.ne.jp] has quit [Changing host] 21:01:27 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 21:02:47 dnolen_ [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #scheme 21:04:40 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: bounce] 21:08:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:09:20 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:14:17 -!- ASau` [~user@95-26-251-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:23 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:17:56 -!- dnolen_ [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:00 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:30:20 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: bbl] 21:31:05 adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-97-188.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 21:32:33 -!- adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-97-188.public.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:45 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: bounce !] 21:32:47 tuubow_ [adityavit@conference/itp/x-llngccavjixwwrmu] has joined #scheme 21:34:34 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 21:35:25 -!- tuubow [adityavit@conference/itp/x-whlfbquwoilbikjh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:14 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:37:34 -!- FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:37:34 FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has joined #scheme 21:42:21 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:47 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:44:29 -!- tuubow_ [adityavit@conference/itp/x-llngccavjixwwrmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46:54 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:52:56 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:01 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:46 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:55:35 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:53 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:58:49 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:50 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:28 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:32 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:16:20 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 22:18:04 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:18:35 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-59-158.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:23 adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-97-188.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 22:24:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #scheme 22:28:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:40 kvda [~kvda@124-169-132-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:32:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-243-68.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #scheme 22:32:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-243-68.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:32:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 22:34:52 -!- adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-97-188.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:39:37 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-169-132-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x__x] 22:40:00 kvda [~kvda@124-169-132-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:40:08 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:18 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-002.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:44:33 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-169-132-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:03 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 22:46:12 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:47:00 kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:48:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:48:47 stis: If you think there's an exponential explosion, demonstrate an example that explodes. 22:49:10 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:50:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-28.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:51:30 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-108-153.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:43 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:19 kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:52:29 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: class] 23:01:19 stis: ok, I glanced at the code and you're probably right, I will verify and fix later 23:04:50 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x__x] 23:05:22 kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:07:05 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #scheme 23:07:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:11 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tnfvopbvkjdjnwkb] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:32 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-vlxrzugyujwvwrec] has joined #scheme 23:15:17 ASau [~user@95-26-251-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:17:32 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:40 rest_ [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:23:28 -!- rest_ is now known as kvda 23:23:33 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-vlxrzugyujwvwrec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23:38 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:53 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD601E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:24:07 kvda [~kvda@124-171-28-218.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:34:16 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 23:35:01 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:39:07 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 23:39:36 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:46:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:48 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:08 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]