00:00:45 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:25 -!- jhemann [~Jason@adsl-108-67-94-154.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:17 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:06:32 dgs: what does your handle-key-events procedure return? 00:10:03 hmmm. well, currently nothing. It just changes the position of the "snake" 00:11:01 i see the difference now though . . . the clack function is called directly - rather than from the show function 00:11:02 it doesn't return "nothing"; it returns (void) 00:11:16 hmm 00:11:26 hmm indeed :) 00:12:10 I've never dealt with the "World", but I suspect that if you're using procedures whose names end with !, You're Doing It Rong 00:12:14 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6129C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:12:30 sometimes I feel like I'm almost getting scheme - then I have days like this =) 00:12:39 yup 00:12:58 I definitely think the set-snake-x-pos! is a bit like cheating 00:12:58 well, this isn't really scheme that's tripping you up -- it's functional programming 00:13:36 but I couldn't think of how else to do it 00:14:30 i could create another snake object with the correct new values 00:15:03 but couldn't see how to pass that back to be the new snake 00:16:00 . . . I will have to fix that at some point I guess 00:16:20 I suspect you _do_ want to create another snake with the correct new values, and then return that as the new world 00:16:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:34 first need to sort out why I can't draw :p 00:17:27 actually 00:17:32 I suspect those two problems are really the same problem. 00:17:36 yeah 00:17:42 i was just typing the same thing :p 00:18:33 so my move snake functions should return a new world, which would make handle-key-events return the new world 00:19:00 which should (this is the leap of faith) make the ws passed in to show be not void 00:19:07 I will go and have a play with that 00:19:21 thanks again offby1, you are as helpful as always =) 00:19:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.66] has joined #scheme 00:19:45 *offby1* bows 00:20:31 -!- whitequark [~whitequar@2a00:ab00:1::4464:5550] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:21:30 whitequark [~whitequar@2a00:ab00:1::4464:5550] has joined #scheme 00:23:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:24:37 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:28 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 00:33:25 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-68-37-139-248.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:29 -!- kudkudyak [~user@94.72.151.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:11 -!- kk`` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 00:35:44 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 00:45:55 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:35 -!- tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-79-163.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:01:54 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 01:07:46 jhemann [~Jason@adsl-108-67-94-154.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:10:00 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:18 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:16:37 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 01:16:49 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:49 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 02:09:46 -!- helichopter [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:12:34 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-44-157.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:48 kvda_ [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 02:26:55 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 02:28:25 hoi 02:32:15 mister_m [~matthew@207-229-184-226.c3-0.drb-ubr1.chi-drb.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:33:18 So does anyone understand why R6RS licenses (and (procedure? x) (eqv? x x)) to return #f? All known R5RS and R6RS implementations return #t. 02:34:39 rudybot: eval (let ([x 'fred]) (and (procedure? x) (eqv? x x))) 02:34:40 offby1: ; Value: #f 02:34:41 offby1: ; stdout: "Yoink!!Yoink!!Yoink!!Yoink!!Yoink!!Yoink!!\nYoink!!\nYoink!!\nYoink!!\nYoink!!\n" 02:34:51 jcowan: there ya go 02:35:03 rudybot: init r5rs 02:35:04 offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 02:35:07 rudybot: eval (let ([x 'fred]) (and (procedure? x) (eqv? x x))) 02:35:08 offby1: error: #:1:6: read: illegal use of open square bracket 02:35:14 rudybot: eval (let ((x 'fred)) (and (procedure? x) (eqv? x x))) 02:35:14 offby1: ; Value: #f 02:36:13 Sorry, that was badly worded. I meant (if (procedure? x) (eqv? x x) #t) 02:36:51 ah 02:37:02 I figured you made a typo or braino. 02:37:08 And no, of course I cannot answer that question. 02:37:32 I can, however, encourage you to buy cute leetle magnets. They're shiny! 02:37:35 Worthwhile, then, because I'm about to ask on the r6rs mailing list 02:37:43 Not with a 3yo in the house, I'm not buying them. 02:37:53 heh 02:38:14 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-58-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:39:50 jcowan: it was to allow certain optimisations with procedures 02:41:11 it's covered in the rationale document 02:42:21 "The definition of eqv? allows implementations latitude in their treatment of procedures: implementations are free either to detect or to fail to detect that two procedures are equivalent to each other, and can decide whether or not to merge representations of equivalent procedures by using the same pointer or bit pattern to represent both. Moreover, they can use implementation techniques such as inlining and beta reduction that 02:42:21 duplicate otherwise equivalent procedures." 02:44:21 Yes, that justifies not requiring successive invocations of lambda to return the same object. R6RS goes further, though: if you put a procedure into a pair or vector, and then pull it out, you are not guaranteed that it is the same procedure in the sense of eqv?. 02:44:25 That seems extreme to me. 02:45:24 it is 02:45:38 That means that procedures (closures) are no longer first-class. 02:45:51 I figured it would just require a lot of complicated weasel wording to guarantee 02:48:16 jcowan: that sounds like an extreme interpretation of first-class 02:48:57 -!- kvda_ [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: x__x] 02:49:08 the closures can be stored and retrieved, and they still be identical in every respect but eqv? 02:49:29 which, you can't guarantee at all for procedures in any circumstance anyway 02:49:58 are characters also not first-class because they can't be reliably compared with eq? ? 02:50:30 ditto for numbers 02:50:34 No, because they *can* be reliably compared with eqv?. 02:51:48 bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-10-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:55:38 anyway, it's a pain in the ass at times 02:56:15 Consider the knock-on effects: (memv cdr (list car cdr cons)) can return #f instead of the obvious (cdr cons). 02:56:17 I've had a few occasions where I've wanted to use procedures as the keys in an array 02:56:46 s/array/hashtable/? 02:56:47 jcowan: I don't think they didn't consider that 02:57:11 jcowan: more generally, associative array of arbitrary implementation strategy 02:58:21 ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 03:02:37 anyway, I gave the reason, but I have no intention of defending it 03:03:00 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:03:01 *ijp* believes (let ((x )) (eqv? x x)) should hold in all circumstances 03:04:55 And none of the seven R6RS implementations actually does that. 03:05:17 Not that I blame you, but I don't think it is a reason; it doesn't actually justify it. 03:05:55 I'm okay with saying (let ((x +nan.0)) (eqv? x x)) => #f, because that is the consequence of (= +nan.0 +nan.0) being #f. 03:06:18 I'd look up the original discussion, and see who suggested adding it in the first place. Maybe they have a more convincing reason 03:06:28 *jcowan* will, thanks. 03:07:03 are there any online scheme repls? 03:11:07 repl.it has a scheme repl; probably at least a dozen others too 03:12:29 http://eval.ironscheme.net/ 03:13:29 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:08 -!- simathur_ [~simathur@192.100.106.9] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122843]] 03:33:37 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35:25 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@unaffiliated/tdjacr] has left #scheme 03:38:13 mister_m: rudybot here is sort of an online repl 03:38:28 good point 03:38:29 rudybot: eval (for/product ([i (in-naturals 10)]) (add1 i)) 03:38:30 offby1: error: #:1:14: read: illegal use of open square bracket 03:38:35 rudybot: init racket 03:38:35 offby1: your sandbox is ready 03:38:37 rudybot: eval (for/product ([i (in-naturals 10)]) (add1 i)) 03:38:48 offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 03:38:48 rudybot: eval (for/product ([i (in-range 10)]) (add1 i)) 03:38:48 offby1: ; Value: 3628800 03:39:10 TDJACR [~TDJACR@unaffiliated/tdjacr] has joined #scheme 03:40:41 rudybot: eval (define (random-choose l) (list-ref l (random (length l)))) 03:40:42 ijp: your sandbox is ready 03:40:42 ijp: Done. 03:41:19 rudybot: eval `(the weather today will be ,(random-choose '(sunny rainy snowy meh apocalyptic))) 03:41:19 ijp: ; Value: (the weather today will be meh) 03:41:30 :( 03:41:47 ijp: you got to give him better choices 03:42:24 eval `(the weather today will be ,(random-choose '(great good fab sunny))) 03:42:28 rudybot: eval `(the weather today will be ,(random-choose '(great good fab sunny))) 03:42:29 offby1: ; Value: (the weather today will be great) 03:42:55 offby1: no, that'd just be kidding myself 03:43:27 rudybot: eval `(the weather today will be ,(random-choose '(rain rain rainy wet damp cloudy grey overcast crappy ))) 03:43:28 offby1: ; Value: (the weather today will be rain) 04:00:23 The weather today *was* great. At least where I am. 04:00:51 *jcowan* pats rudybot on the head. 04:10:35 actually it was unusually nice here too 04:19:46 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:23:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.66] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 04:29:24 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:30:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.66] has joined #scheme 04:31:16 -!- pyro- [~pyro@chopstick.dcollins.info] has quit [Changing host] 04:31:16 pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has joined #scheme 04:50:55 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:52:47 -!- acedia [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Quit: Dream evil] 04:58:05 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:26:56 -!- mister_m [~matthew@207-229-184-226.c3-0.drb-ubr1.chi-drb.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:20 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 05:41:42 -!- lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.188-115-66-70.adsl.only.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 05:44:55 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:51:08 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 05:52:16 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:52:33 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has left #scheme 05:57:58 yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has joined #scheme 05:58:26 -!- yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has left #scheme 06:26:27 -!- exobit_ [~user@pool-74-108-9-39.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:35 exobit__ [~user@pool-74-108-9-39.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:27:55 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:27:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:27:55 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:27:57 -!- RITRedbeard [~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:29:07 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD9365C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:30:09 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-179-60.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:34:47 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-108.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:41:31 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-108.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:55 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-179-60.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:46:43 foof: did you ever port FMT to MIT/GNU Scheme? 06:47:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:11 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:01:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.66] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:02:13 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:06:51 foof: did you ever add conditional formatters? 07:09:49 taylanub [tub@p4FD9205A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:20:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-69.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:28:33 imran_sr [~imran@99-72-224-160.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:31:11 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:32:29 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:33:35 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-68-37-139-248.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:34:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38:09 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 07:55:37 sestisr [~chatzilla@138.227.189.9] has joined #scheme 08:01:01 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:05:20 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 08:09:05 lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-10-79.adsl.only.fr] has joined #scheme 08:15:59 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:18:45 wingo [~wingo@72.pool85-50-203.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 08:22:13 -!- ijp [~user@host86-171-129-59.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:47:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:52:01 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #scheme 09:06:20 tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-79-163.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 09:11:00 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.202.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:56 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 09:18:22 acedia [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 09:25:56 ecraven: Not yet - I will port to R7RS and hope MIT has the sense to implement that. 09:26:03 There are conditional formatters. 09:27:11 hm.. i really need to look at r7rs, how close is it to being finished? 09:28:01 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:16 formal comments period (for the small language) is over at end of june 09:28:41 foof: about conditional formatters, is there a formatter that only generates output if a condition holds? 09:29:00 we'll then make some final revisions and submit to the electorate for ratification 09:30:05 so barring any additional delays, you can expect the final draft early fall 09:30:06 great :) thanks for the info. would you be willing to summarise the major changes from r5rs in a few sentences? 09:30:18 chibi will implement the standard fully right away 09:30:33 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:54 chicken is laying the groundwork for support now 09:31:32 ecraven: it's probably quickest to grab the latest draft and look at the changes from R5RS in the notes 09:32:09 oh, they are included? great! thanks again :) 09:34:09 parameters are the same as fluids in scheme48? 09:34:58 not sure - they are not the same as fluid-let because they are first-class 09:46:42 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 09:49:41 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-179-60.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:22 dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-118-175.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:55:33 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-93.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:06:22 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.28.32] has joined #scheme 10:17:16 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:19:23 kofeine [~Miranda@knowingly-handling.volia.net] has joined #scheme 10:20:00 foof: i'd guess most of these things work in MIT/GNU Scheme already anyway. The biggest hurdle will in my opinion be the library system. 10:22:43 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:31:36 cswords [~cswords@c-98-223-237-144.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:34:10 -!- cswords__ [~cswords@c-98-223-237-144.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:57 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:26 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #scheme 10:53:07 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #scheme 10:57:35 -!- imran_sr [~imran@99-72-224-160.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 11:06:39 masm [~masm@bl18-44-157.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:08:03 -!- ssbr [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:52 antithesis 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