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[~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 04:38:02 estevocastro [~estevocas@cpe-74-72-192-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:50 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has left #scheme 04:40:16 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:43:10 kniu [~kniu@pool-72-77-60-232.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:50:18 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:42 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 04:57:10 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:57:15 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 05:01:08 -!- wollw [~davidsher@75-101-85-170.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:01:49 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:08:52 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-72-77-60-232.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:58 kniu [~kniu@pool-72-77-60-232.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:11:20 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 05:19:40 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:34 wollw [~davidsher@75-101-85-170.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 05:33:05 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:08 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:45:17 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 05:45:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-88.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 05:52:21 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:46 RITRedbeard: Not sure if you're trolling or not. MIT is one of the most sophisticated Scheme compilers, producing efficient native code on the fly. 05:59:20 It also has one of the most powerful debuggers (along with Gambit). 06:00:16 Under Windows, then. 06:00:40 Those same arguments apply under Windows. 06:00:46 However, it's ancient and not very actively developed, and this shows. 06:01:31 The documentation (for non-academic purposes) is horrible. There is no module system, which makes building a large system with it difficult. 06:02:11 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:10 There is no #! support for quick scripts. The heap size is fixed at startup time, which means you need to know in advance how much memory each program will need, and request the maximum up front (being wasteful in common cases). 06:03:28 I noticed that. 06:04:12 There aren't many libraries. People could write these and port them from other implementations quickly enough if it gets a module system. 06:05:22 The thread system is undocumented and experimental. 06:07:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme 06:07:12 In short, as a compiler it is one of the best, if not the best. As an implementation it is one of the worst. 06:08:23 -!- saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-jmzyfrtmxfzqgmhq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:09:05 Now, it's much easier to build a good implementation (runtime and standard libs) than to build a good compiler, but unfortunately not many people are working on the MIT implementation. 06:10:20 _If_ a core team (ping Riastradh) could get together and start using MIT actively for something like a webserver, then it could quickly outpace many other implementations. 06:10:41 As it is, you're stuck with worse-is-better. 06:11:34 On Windows I recommend Racket. 06:11:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 06:15:00 Note, all the really fast, incremental Scheme compilers (i.e. Larceny and Ikarus) are in a similar situation. 06:18:01 Gambit has an active community, and Marc Feeley is working on an incremental x86 backend. If that becomes stable and it adds hygienic macros and a native module system (a bunch of ifs but they're all in progress), then it will be one of the best implementations. 06:18:50 saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-gguzhboutblxxulx] has joined #scheme 06:19:01 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@cpe-74-72-192-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:24:45 es [~estevocas@cpe-74-72-192-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:33:51 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:33:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:33:51 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:34:57 -!- kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has quit [Quit: x__x] 06:40:03 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 06:52:32 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:52:59 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:53:02 copumpkin [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:53:04 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:53:04 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 06:58:04 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 07:07:36 foof: Thanks for that survey; interesting stuff. 07:08:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:38 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:10:10 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:11:49 kvda [~kvda@202.58.240.18] has joined #scheme 07:12:34 lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-10-83.adsl.only.fr] has joined #scheme 07:15:13 wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:15:45 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:17:33 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has joined #scheme 11:25:04 -!- bigfg [~b_fin_g@r190-135-42-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:31:15 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r190-135-42-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:33:50 squimmy_ [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has joined #scheme 11:34:10 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.19.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:04 dear #scheme: what would you recommend as a good resource for learning scheme? I tried "The Little Schemer" but it starts from the very, very basics and doesn't teach you how to actually write a program 11:35:26 How to Design Programs -- An Introduction to Computing and Programming http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 11:35:53 squimmy_: but how to actually write a program is easy: you take a good editor, ie. emacs, and start typing program characters. 11:36:13 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:36:23 squimmy_: also Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 11:37:05 pjb: thank you very much. these all seem very good! 11:38:45 squimmy_: but I would keep reading The Little Schemer: it's the only book that promote peanut butter sandwich pauses. 11:39:00 and jelly. 11:39:39 "go cons some cake into your mouth" 11:40:43 snizzo [~Claudio@host134-232-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 11:41:00 I read the zeroeth edition, respecting carefully all the instructions. 11:41:39 -!- squimmy_ [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:42:46 squimmy [tim1@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au] has joined #scheme 11:42:56 pjb: that sounds like a good way to learn to scheme 11:46:04 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:49:21 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:01:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:12:05 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@host134-232-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:08 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 12:15:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:53 preflex_ 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joined #scheme 16:37:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.249] has joined #scheme 16:41:23 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 16:44:41 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:46:10 -!- jhemann [~Jason@adsl-108-67-91-107.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:52:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:10 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme 17:01:56 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/149977/focus=150091 17:02:56 What's the rationale behind that decision in scheme? Is there any other language that has only a single false boolean value? 17:05:10 kudkudyak [~user@94.72.146.236] has joined #scheme 17:05:10 haskell, ml 17:06:18 C 17:06:51 C doesn't even have "official" booleans. :-) 17:07:00 No, but 0 is the only false value in C 17:07:20 Hrmm.. unless you count 0.0 distinctly 17:08:43 well, there is 0 as char, as short, as int, as long, as pointer, ... if that counts 17:09:49 I never wrote any big programs in scheme, but I really like that it has a separate false value #f and nothing (besides itself) is equal to it. 17:10:58 0 is C's nil. 17:12:44 but please use NULL in code. :) 17:12:44 Technically Scheme has only two boolean values too. 17:12:56 (things which answer #t to boolean?) 17:12:58 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:13:14 asumu: indeed. 17:13:21 Which is nice. 17:15:55 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:44 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:25:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-88.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:42:24 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-147-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:53:40 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:56:42 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-133.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 17:58:18 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 18:00:13 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 18:08:23 Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #scheme 18:09:00 hey, is there a scheme srfi, library or something similar that provides CL-like control forms like when, unless, ecase etc? 18:10:42 well, racket recognizes when without any additional libraries. 18:10:48 i'm using scsh 18:11:02 and it recognizes unless too :) 18:12:11 -!- lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-1-161.adsl.only.fr] has left #scheme 18:12:24 lastwill [~will@bb1.reu.89-16-1-161.adsl.only.fr] has joined #scheme 18:12:50 Dodek: chicken comes with WHEN and UNLESS 18:12:52 there is no "copy cl forms" srfi 18:13:05 though some like when and unless are pretty common (and standard in r6rs) 18:13:31 ok, thanks. unfortunately i'm using scsh (this is scheme-48) 18:14:29 so, how does ecase differ from case? 18:15:05 case returns nil for no match, ecase returns error 18:16:33 ah, pretty trivial to write if you need it 18:17:01 sure, that's why i though that someone had already done it :) 18:20:58 jhemann [Jason@140-182-226-78.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 18:21:54 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:14 dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #scheme 18:23:58 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6047C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:24:29 Yes, WHEN I'm hungry I kill the chicken, UNLESS I've something better to eat. 18:26:07 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #scheme 18:27:45 -!- 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