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[Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:34:39 PfhorSlayer [~PfhatWork@sceapdsd43-15.989studios.com] has joined #scheme 02:35:06 What would be the best way to do a mapping of some symbol -> some other symbol? 02:35:45 so basically, (my-map some-symbol) returns some-other-symbol 02:36:16 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:36:20 (define (my-map x) 'some-other-symbol) 02:36:33 s/best/simplest/ 02:36:34 sorry, I didn't specify 02:36:48 I have multiple different some-symbols that need to map to corresponding some-other-symbol 02:37:09 a -> other-a, b -> other-b, c -> other-c 02:37:10 etc 02:37:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:20 (define (my-map x) (case x [(some-symbol) 'some-other-symbol] ...)) 02:37:53 PfhorSlayer: you can use a hash table, also. 02:37:53 (define (my-map x) (cdr (assq x '([some-symbol . some-other-symbol] ...)))) 02:38:08 PfhorSlayer: if you don't liek O(n) lookup 02:38:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:40:09 Speed doesn't really matter, there are only 3 different mappings 02:40:19 assq looks like it will work :) 02:40:21 Thanks! 02:43:45 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 02:45:59 In case of short mappings (in Racket's case my most recent experiment puts that at less than ~40), the hash table costs are higher than the benefits. 02:46:24 (But that assumes re-constructing the hash, it would be smaller for a fixed one.) 02:47:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:13 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 02:59:17 PfhorSlayer: good point :):) 02:59:59 eli: thanks for that 03:03:46 -!- homie 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[~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:40:59 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:56 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:51:40 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:24 kevin01123 [~user@client154-140.sl.siue.edu] has joined #scheme 03:56:51 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:57:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:00:56 -!- kevin01123 [~user@client154-140.sl.siue.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:56 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:05:12 hi schemers 04:05:45 hi 04:13:29 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:26 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 04:15:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 04:15:50 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:18:40 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:01 -!- GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@135.51.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:19:32 chromaticwt: hi 04:20:19 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:59 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:23:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:45 higher order functions have been an interesting new concept for me. 04:30:29 chromaticwt: I blame your math teachers! 04:32:04 *qu1j0t3* blames society 04:37:22 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:46:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:51 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:50:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:35 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:54:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 04:57:25 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00:31 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:22 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-224-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 05:01:48 homie` 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05:49:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:51:28 snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:56:07 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:57:39 The sixth draft of R7RS-small has been released, and we should have the formal-comment process posted very shortly. Basically, a formal comment is just a decorated email. 06:00:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:55 -!- snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:01:03 snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:01:50 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wohmnfweetrzcmlc] has joined #scheme 06:02:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:02:36 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:07:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:10:15 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:15:51 -!- ysph 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[~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:47:54 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:48:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:57:04 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:59:33 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 07:01:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:04 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:03:47 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:31 if I want to have optional and keyword args for functions using chibi scheme, then do I have a feasible option? 07:08:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127748 07:09:00 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:18 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:10:31 pjb: I know how to implement it. what I'm looking for is a somewhat standard, widely used, thin library that I can use to replace the standard define... 07:10:42 pjb: thanks for the paste, though! 07:11:39 I've seen that e.g. racket uses #:uninterned-symbols to mark keyword arguments 07:12:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15:15 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:36 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:18:20 cswords__ [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:18:32 -!- homie` 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[~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 07:56:40 cswords_ [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:58:46 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:04 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:00:10 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #scheme 08:00:43 -!- cswords [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:59 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:11 hrm, embedding racket into a c program doesn't even look that scary at a first glance... 08:02:09 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 08:04:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:07:39 -!- Guest16683 is now known as micro__ 08:13:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:15:48 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:19:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:16 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-52-179-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:20:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:22:35 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-172-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:58 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #scheme 08:24:58 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:06 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:25:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:25:18 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:31:29 hi I was in here before asking for help with my first scheme program, trying to use default arguments 08:32:02 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 08:32:32 the program used (write) to print out the fibonacci numbers as it came across them, which means that it had "side effects" 08:32:34 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:32:45 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:32:58 So I wrote a version that has no side effects 08:33:01 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550677/ 08:33:01 PfhatHome [PfhorSlaye@cpe-76-94-20-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:34:02 And I was wondering if any one can tell me anything I am doing that is considered "bad practice". 08:34:24 I am googling language features when the need arises so Im a bit afraid of developing bad habits out of ignorance 08:34:59 Well, it is odd to define a procedure as a dotted pair rather than a list. 08:35:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:35:56 what do you mean by that? I did it that way so that I could use args as a list to accept optional arguments 08:37:28 Normally you have an outer procedure that takes the normal argument, and then an inner procedure that takes the initial arguments and recurs. 08:37:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:38:02 And then it's usual to bind a and b with let rather than define. 08:38:35 I use do use define 08:38:47 (define a (car args)) \n (define b (car (cdr args))) 08:39:03 or are you referring to this part: (set! args (list 0 1))) 08:39:24 Yes, but let is typically preferred to define except at the top level, at least in most of the code I've seen. 08:40:18 ahh ok. I was under the impression you couldn't use let or set until you had define'd the variable. I have never even used let, this is my first day as a lisper. I will google it 08:40:32 And finally, it's more Schemely to return the sequence in a list rather than a string. 08:41:11 I agree, the string should not be hard coded into the procedure like that, it ruins the generalization of the function 08:41:18 thank you levi, I will modify my program accordingly 08:41:34 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 08:41:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42:00 what is the benefit of let vs define vs set! for variables? 08:42:19 -!- dous_ [~dous@cm229.sigma67.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:37 or, let* rather (I think) 08:43:02 Well, use let unless you are defining mutually-referencing values. 08:43:46 Using define will scope the definition to the entire body of the procedure, but let and let* scope the definition only within the let form. 08:44:52 OH I get it! 08:44:54 awesome! 08:45:42 (let ((a 10) (b 20)) (+ a b)) 08:46:22 So the bindings for a and b only exist within that let form. 08:46:25 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 08:46:47 (let* ((a 10) (b (+ a 10))) (+ a b)) 08:47:02 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47:07 There, the binding for b refers to the binding for a, so we use let* instead of let. 08:47:48 let* is shorthand for nested lets, basically. 08:49:02 Got it working using let 08:49:13 this is extremely cool 08:49:28 There is also letrec, for when you are binding names to lambdas that will be mutually recursive. 08:51:18 So, set! is used to mutate an existing binding. 08:51:56 Can't you just use let or define on an already existing binding? 08:52:11 It can be useful, but it is often worthwhile to structure your program so that mutation is not required. 08:53:08 Usually you re-bind the names in your procedure by performing a recursive call that moves your parameters closer to the exit condition. 08:58:38 OK, I modified my program a bit, but now there is a new issue 08:58:40 here is the code 08:58:40 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550693/ 08:58:46 the output 08:58:47 ("0" "1" "1" "2" "3" "5" "8" . "13") 08:58:51 what is that dot? 08:59:17 ("0" "1" "1" "2" "3" "5" "8" . "13") == ("0" . ("1" . ("1" . ("2" . ("3" .( "5" . ("8" . "13"))))))) 08:59:23 That's the result of consing a string to another string. 08:59:30 perhaps you expected ("0" . ("1" . ("1" . ("2" . ("3" .( "5" 08:59:30 . ("8" . ("13" . ())))))))) instead? 08:59:49 That is what I had at first, when I used (list) 08:59:52 You should only cons a string onto a list. And you should probably not be turning your numbers into strings. 08:59:53 I used cons to avoid that 09:00:06 yes right I just now fixed the string issue as well 09:00:13 but I still get (0 1 1 2 3 5 8 . 13) 09:00:19 arameus: if you want a proper list, then you should only cons elements to proper lists! 09:00:30 (so we've told you twice already). 09:01:01 arameus: do you know what a proper list is? 09:01:11 Unfortunately I do not 09:01:17 that's the problem. 09:01:28 A proper list is either () or the result of (cons element proper-list). 09:01:50 (cons 8 13) doesn't produce a proper list, because 13 is not a proper list (it's not a cons, it's not null). 09:01:59 AHHH so I can only cons into a list, I cant make a list that way from two non-list elements! 09:02:12 Yes. We only had to tell you that twice! 09:03:07 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:06:29 Hah, Dr. Racket has a valentine's easter egg today. 09:08:04 -!- virl [~virl__@85-127-156-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:43 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:10 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:12:29 How is it looking now? 09:15:59 its coming along, I will be sure to paste here when Ive got it working accordingly 09:16:04 thank you by the way for all the help 09:17:07 I have a couple of versions to show you when you get yours working. 09:17:32 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:13 I'm trying to make a define-syntax that ends up expanding to an expression that calls a defined function that takes an argument that's passed into the syntax and, if the argument is invalid, does a raise-syntax-error 09:23:34 HA 09:23:35 YES 09:23:36 I DID IT 09:23:48 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550700/ 09:24:00 I can't seem to figure out how to get the syntax object into the defined function such that when I do raise-syntax-error, I get the correct line/location information from where the syntax was called 09:24:11 I'll paste what I'm trying to do, hold on 09:24:59 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550701/ 09:25:16 er, name-to-enum should be func-taking-syntax 09:26:04 The idea being that if I did something like (syntax-test anything-not-a-b-or-c) I'd get an error, that would report the correct location 09:28:09 The (print (syntax->datum stx)) line gives an error, "identifier used out of context in: stx" 09:29:05 But the #'stx one just prints out "stx: Unknown name [whatever I passed in] in: stx" 09:29:09 which is not very helpful 09:30:56 arameus: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550702/ 09:32:40 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-149-239.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:49 what is the advantage of defining an inner function like that? Keep in mind I come from a C and Python background where such things aren't even possible 09:33:08 it seems like it just adds a lot of unnecessary complexity 09:42:39 It avoids exposing the initial arguments. 09:42:50 And you can indeed do that in python. 09:43:08 Though not in C, unless you use a gcc extension. 09:44:30 There aren't really extra optional arguments to the fib function. If you pass values there that are not correct, you will not get the correct answer. 09:45:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 09:45:54 You have written a function that calculates the fib. sequence for some subset of the inputs it allows, and something else entirely otherwise. 09:49:20 I added a new one on the end here to show the named let construct: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550707/ 09:51:42 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:52:37 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550710/ 09:52:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:52:54 You'll like the last one there. 09:54:47 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:55:02 The more complex ones in the middle (3 and 4) have the property of being tail-recursive, meaning that the recursive calls will not take up extra stack frames. 10:09:26 phao [phao@177.78.112.108] has joined #scheme 10:11:26 Still have some ways to go before they quite match the conciseness of Haskell "let fibs = 0:1:zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in take 20 fibs". 10:15:17 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-61-126.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:15:38 -!- phao [phao@177.78.112.108] has left #scheme 10:16:10 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 10:16:36 -!- pjb is now known as Guest20228 10:21:45 -!- Guest20228 is now known as pjb 10:23:01 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23:30 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 10:25:59 -!- arameus [~orange_ju@default-216.120.224.245.hrnoc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:27:05 rostayob [~rostayob@host86-143-150-219.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:30:55 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:33:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:38:47 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 10:40:36 Can anyone help out with my syntax issue? 10:40:49 I'm kind of lost :( 10:41:49 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:48:32 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 10:49:03 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 10:56:52 -!- pranq [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:56:52 -!- PfhorSlayer [~PfhatWork@sceapdsd43-15.989studios.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:57:07 PfhorSlayer [~PfhatWork@sceapdsd43-15.989studios.com] has joined #scheme 10:57:11 pranq [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 11:07:39 [0] Go ahead and ask :-) ... and some one will try to help.. if not right now, whenever they happen to wander over to the computer 11:07:39 11:10:45 masm [~masm@bl18-49-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:13:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:17:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:21:23 elliottc1ble [~me@ell.io] has joined #scheme 11:25:28 nataraj [~user@117.206.35.73] has joined #scheme 11:25:33 Hi 11:25:53 unable to bite into lambda calculus 11:26:05 is that akin to set theory in Math? 11:26:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.27] has joined #scheme 11:28:32 what's your question? 11:32:06 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550747/ 11:32:06 -!- pranq [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [*.net *.split] 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attila_lendvai is now known as Guest84673 11:35:10 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:38 elementary, is it that I haven't realised that been using lambda in languages like C, Pascal, in some other names, or that those don't have this kind of 'nameless' functions? 11:35:41 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:35:59 nataraj: many languages don't have nameless functions, yeah 11:36:21 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:47 C++0x11 adds some kind of lambda, and Python and JS both have anonymous functions too. 11:36:49 the need, the advantages? something like nested procedures in Pascal? 11:36:59 There are no anonymous functions in C or Pascal. 11:37:05 something that limits the scope 11:37:07 nataraj: yes, but more so. 11:37:10 nataraj: there is no need to have anonymous functions whatsoever. 11:37:17 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@tmo-110-104.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:37:36 nataraj: the important features are first-class functions and closures, not anonymous function definition 11:37:37 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:05 there is a need for anonymous function: in general you cannot define a named function in random places, ie, in random scopes. 11:38:25 pjb: why not? 11:38:27 my take at first class is that it can be passed into another function, like function pointers 11:38:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:38:45 resoved at run time perhaps 11:38:46 nataraj: yes, basically. 11:39:14 ssbr: because that's how languages without anonymous functions are defined. 11:39:16 random places, but why at random places? 11:39:45 to caputure lexical variables in a closure. 11:39:47 pjb: that's silly. They could just as easily be defined otherwise. 11:40:01 ssbr: the other languages could indeed as easily be scheme. 11:40:06 and indeed, that's silly. 11:40:07 pjb: Sure, whatever 11:40:37 is it a run time mechanism? say, like code blocks in Clipper and ruby? 11:40:39 pjb: What I'm saying is that the important concept is not, "hey, you don't have to give it a name". A lot of people get confused between the notions of a lambda and a closure, which are actually separate 11:41:12 pjb: what I'm saying is that all the features of lambdas can be approximated by named functions, and sure, only provided you can name a function in an arbitrary scope. (Not an unusual feature except in languages that do not have closures, AFAIK) 11:41:19 Indeed. The important concept is to be able to capture lexical bindings into closures. 11:41:32 ssbr: To be fair, languages rarely separate the concepts, though(?) 11:41:36 You could force having to name all functions. It would be inconvenient and useless. 11:41:46 ssbr: C++ sorta does, though, in that you have to close over the variables explicitly. 11:42:01 ssbr: it cannot be approximated by existing named functions, because those don't capture any lexical context. 11:42:11 pjb: I didn't say *existing* named functions 11:42:13 eg. in C, you can define a function only on the top level. 11:42:14 is closure the nested procs in Pascal, derived from Simula? 11:42:28 pjb: Sure. and e.g. in Python or Scheme, you can define a function inside another function 11:42:38 pjb: GCC lets you define nested functions. 11:43:34 And it also has a crappy support for "blocks". 11:43:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:44 pjb: (and we're talking about Scheme, not C, I assume) 11:45:22 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:46:01 python needs locally scoped named functions because it's lambda is crippled 11:46:14 kennyd: its lambda is fine, its expressions are crippled 11:46:44 (its lambda is basically the same as scheme's lambda) 11:47:13 uhu? 11:47:26 Chat1533 [~Chat1533@app6.chatmosphere.org] has joined #scheme 11:47:26 -!- Chat1533 [~Chat1533@app6.chatmosphere.org] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:37 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has joined #scheme 11:47:37 Python has statements and lambdas cannot contain statements. 11:47:57 Hum. Does scheme have statements? 11:48:16 No. Only expressions and definitions. 11:48:18 python's lambda can have a single expression. scheme's can have as many as you want 11:48:24 kennyd: that's nothing 11:48:48 If python had any macro facility, you could do anything in lambda's. 11:48:50 kennyd: you can put multiple expressions inside a single expression in Python, so you end up the same place 11:49:11 kennyd: lambda a: [expr1, expr2, expr3][-1] === (lambda (a) expr1 expr2 expr3) 11:49:31 but there's no let or set! or define. 11:49:57 and no `if' 11:50:02 mario-goulart: yes there is 11:50:10 In lambdas? 11:50:16 mario-goulart: a if b else c === (if b a c) 11:50:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:43 Oh, that variant of `if'. 11:50:59 ssbr ok. it's still crippled due to fact that it can't contain statements, unlike functions 11:51:00 ssbr: the point is that you cannot have any python code in lambdas. 11:51:15 mario-goulart: Sure, I guess. 11:51:23 But if Python had a rich expression language nobody would care. 11:52:04 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:52:24 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@host86-143-150-219.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 11:52:28 Way things are going, I don't think it'd need to be 'rich'. 11:52:35 I don't know. It irritates me that people will in one breath say that "python's lambdas are crippled" and in the other say "Scheme's are fine". They are the same thing in two environments: it is the environment which is crippled 11:53:18 pedantic nit, I guess 11:53:58 No, I agree. 11:54:01 zamiel- [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #scheme 11:54:08 Although I barely know a thing about lisp, sadly. 11:55:00 Meh. Forget lisp, scheme is where it's at ;) 11:57:25 am I to left to amuse myselves? :) 11:57:35 haha 11:57:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:57:52 nataraj: I don't know anything about pascal's nested procedures, or simula's 11:58:26 suggest me some reading material plz 11:58:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:59:59 nataraj: perhaps examples might help 12:00:02 e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36636/what-is-a-closure 12:00:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:23 Don't forget upargs closures vs. downargs closures 12:00:25 if it makes sense after that, you might be well off. If not, you might need a better tutorial, and I don't have one off-hand 12:00:46 Some languages already do downargs closures, e.g. Pascal or gcc's nested functions 12:01:13 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:01:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 12:01:24 I think those are only interesting in a language without a gc, no? 12:01:29 or languages with an optional gc (hee hee) 12:01:49 ah, right, but nataraj might already know about them 12:02:05 They're the "boring" sort 12:02:20 -!- baggito [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:02:24 they're exciting if you have both and get to choose! segfault, ahoy! 12:03:21 -!- fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:03:35 -!- aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:03:38 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:19 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:58 nataraj` [~user@117.206.43.60] has joined #scheme 12:04:58 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 12:05:32 fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 12:05:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:05:59 Pepe_ [~ppjet@46.4.131.205] has joined #scheme 12:06:57 -!- nataraj [~user@117.206.35.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:08:52 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #scheme 12:10:22 baggito [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:10:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:11:35 aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 12:12:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:12:24 Goddamn. 12:12:26 Finally figured it out! 12:12:39 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/550756/ 12:12:53 Can any of that be simplified? 12:14:44 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #scheme 12:15:11 -!- zamiel- [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Quit] 12:17:00 -!- nataraj` [~user@117.206.43.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:32 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:41 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 12:18:43 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:18:44 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:56 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest95161 12:18:58 Is there a way to reduce the combinatorial explosion that comes with creating a define-syntax that can take different key/value pairs in any order? 12:19:33 Like, let's say I'm making a define-syntax that instantiates a structure 12:20:07 The structure has N different named fields, but I'd like to be able to specify those fields in any order 12:20:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:48 I would use syntax->list and use the full power of lambda calculus from there. 12:20:51 so you could do something like (make-foo :a 10 :b 2 :c 7 :d 'some-symbol) 12:21:13 but I'd also be able to write it like: (make-foo :b 2 :d 'some-symbol :a 10 :c 7) 12:21:34 or any different combination of those, or even possibly omitting some of them and having a way to provide default values if they're not specified 12:21:40 syntax->list? 12:21:42 *PfhatHome* looks it up 12:22:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:24:01 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:24:58 ruud_s [~ruud@123.125.1.179] has joined #scheme 12:25:25 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:26:18 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 12:26:49 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:27:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:30:24 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:30:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:30:43 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:06 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:32:07 PfhatHome: Those closing parenthesis for sure :p 12:33:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:40 ? 12:35:06 Oh 12:35:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:35:08 A line should never start with a closing parentheis 12:35:12 yeah yeah 12:35:24 except a module maybe 12:35:42 I was referring to the actual syntax, not the style :P 12:37:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:47 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:53 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:39:59 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:18 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:44:07 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:44:27 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 12:45:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #scheme 12:45:18 but really, is there no way to simplify this: #'(#,@stx) 12:45:38 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:50:15 not really, but a more 'stylish' way is to use 'with-syntax' 12:50:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:51 eg: (with-syntax [(stx ...) stx] #'(stx ...)) 12:50:57 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 12:51:10 arggh, missing some ( ) around the binding 12:51:15 but you get the point 12:51:44 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:51:51 rudybot!!!! 12:52:22 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 12:52:27 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:52:28 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:56:34 -!- ruud_s [~ruud@123.125.1.179] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:57:23 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:58:04 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:58:04 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:17 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:01:54 I see, thanks 13:04:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:02 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:07:29 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-61-126.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 13:08:16 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:45 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #scheme 13:10:01 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 13:10:09 PfhatHome: you could also do: #`(bar . #,stx) 13:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:03 btw I think your code is slightly wrong, bar executes at runtime and not compile time (like I think you intended) 13:12:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:14:15 -!- Guest84673 [~attila_le@87.247.3.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:14:43 you probably want: (datum->syntax #'x (bar (syntax->datum #'x) #'stx) 13:14:54 PfhatHome: Following? 13:15:43 argg: (datum->syntax #'x (bar (syntax->datum #'x) stx)) 13:15:59 rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1213-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 13:17:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:19:45 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:22:18 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:56 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 13:23:00 teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:23:41 is there any scheme project which isnt an interpreter i could participate in 13:23:43 ? 13:23:58 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 13:25:05 there must be something 13:25:06 teurastaja: depends what you are looking to do 13:25:18 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:25:31 what do you have to propose? 13:25:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:26:27 basically what is the purpose of your particiation? write libraries/bindings? hack the compiler? etc 13:26:58 something real-world and useful 13:27:13 in scheme 13:27:16 like web sites! 13:27:17 ;p 13:27:27 no racket though 13:27:34 why not racket? 13:27:38 What's the best way to concatenate all cells of a list to a string with plain scheme? 13:27:51 id rather learn common lisp 13:28:12 i.e.: (magic '("hello" "world")) -> "hello, world" 13:28:22 fhd: (format "~a" lst) 13:28:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 13:28:45 fhd: or is it a list of strings? 13:28:51 leppie: A list of strings 13:29:08 (apply string-append list-of-strings) 13:29:19 you were faster than me! 13:29:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:04 leppie: apply is supported by every scheme implemenation? 13:30:09 leppie: Thought I'd need someting like reduce or fold 13:30:11 teurastaja; you might want to look at some active scheme on github 13:30:18 fhd: apply is part of the core 13:30:22 fhd: apply is always there 13:30:34 leppie: Okay, thanks :) 13:30:40 whether it is correctly implemented is another story :) 13:30:41 its like eval: you need it 13:30:57 teurastaja: you can do a lot without eval 13:30:59 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:00 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:31:06 both call each other recursively 13:31:08 probably 99% of stuff 13:31:34 teurastaja: internally yes, but you dont really need to expose it 13:32:01 you cant dynamically put things at top-level without 13:32:28 i wrote my cps-convert like this 13:32:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:32:58 to dynamically rewrite existing functions at top-level 13:33:08 Heh... in /my/ Scheme impl. you can just (apply string list-of-strings) 13:33:28 String and char are implemented sufficiently similar inside that they're mostly interchangable 13:33:48 i wonder why strings arent just lists of chars like in haskell 13:33:53 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:07 Lists have O(n) access time. 13:34:17 Strings are usually vectors of characters, so O(1) 13:34:19 vectors then 13:34:28 Maybe internally they are. 13:34:56 A general Scheme vector could contain any sort of object in any cell, whereas a string can be a specially optimised vector knowing that each cell only contains a char 13:35:33 thats the whole usefulness of string typing 13:35:36 *strong 13:35:43 lol 13:35:44 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:35:48 Both ;) 13:36:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:36:03 leppie: Hm, looks like apply is not really what I'm looking for, I want to put something between the strings 13:36:15 leppie: (magic '("hello" "world")) -> "hello, world" 13:36:29 leppie: Well, imagine that with three elements, would work with two :) 13:36:41 what scheme fhd? some scheme have very advanced formatting procedures 13:36:43 Do you want a join function maybe? 13:36:44 fhd: write it like this: input => output 13:36:53 youll understand better 13:37:08 leppie: I'm in MIT Scheme right now but I'm intestested in how to do this in pure R5RS 13:37:17 ahh 13:37:22 more tricky :) 13:37:22 (string-join sep strs) => (string (first strs) sep (second strs) sep (third strs) ...) 13:37:43 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:37:44 teurastaja: Oh yeah, -> is syntax :P 13:38:03 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:38:20 you might want to forget about joining if you dont need it like i did in a sudoku grid printer 13:38:26 ;; pretty-prints one character at a time 13:38:28 (define (print grid) 13:38:30 (vector-for-each 13:38:32 (lambda (i x) (write x) 13:38:34 (if (= (remainder i 9) 8) (newline) (space))) 13:38:36 grid)) 13:38:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:57 Personally, I'd do something like (define (string-join sep str . strs) (if (pair? others) (string str sep (apply string-join (list sep others)) str)) 13:38:57 -!- Guest95161 is now known as X-Scale 13:39:14 the smile is an 8 followed by a ) 13:39:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:39:54 teurastaja, LeoNerd: Thanks, I guess I have something to work with now :) 13:40:08 Not -terribly- efficient, mind. Any string-joining function could be made more efficient by allocating a string of the correct length first then rendering chunks into it 13:40:12 But that's far harder to write 13:40:14 you can just use for-each to do it 13:40:19 fhd: it will be ugly like: (substring (apply string-append (map string-append (map (lambda (x) sep) list-of-strings) list-of-strings) (string-length sep)) 13:41:07 the most efficient solution i can think of would be to send strings to and input port 13:41:22 *an 13:41:31 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #scheme 13:42:05 by making a string input port, you just feed it whatever you want 13:42:38 Mmmm 13:42:42 Maybe. Depends on your impl. 13:42:50 "the most efficient" would depend on benchmarking 13:42:52 we tend to forget about ports 13:43:11 unless you want to go low-level 13:43:30 but this style of programming would be more C-like 13:44:57 I'm prefering clarity over efficiency for my current endavour. I'll solve that problem when it arises (although I doubt it ever will) 13:45:13 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:46:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:46:18 First make the code work. Once it works, if you find it's too slow you can make it faster 13:46:24 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:46:38 http://eval.ironscheme.net/?id=35 13:47:46 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:15 LeoNerd: Yeah, but I really doubt it. I'll settle for a solution using SRFI-1 reduce or something eventually 13:48:50 fhd: Beware the string realloc problem, though. 13:49:20 It is easily known that the length of the output is the sum of the lengths of the input strings, plus the length of the separator times 1 less than the count of strings 13:49:42 So the most efficient way to implement it is to allocate that once, then render the chars into it, avoiding any realloc 13:50:23 LeoNerd: I'll keep it in mind, thanks. 13:50:31 (That's how Perl does it anyway..) 13:51:09 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:51:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:33 i found the one solution: string-concatenate 13:52:27 string-concatenate string-list -> string 13:52:29 Append the elements of string-list together into a single string. Guaranteed to return a freshly allocated string. 13:52:31 Note that the (apply string-append string-list) idiom is not robust for long lists of strings, as some Scheme implementations limit the number of arguments that may be passed to an n-ary procedure. 13:52:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:53:08 That would work, via an "interleave" procedure for the separator 13:53:10 so... another problem to solve? 13:53:15 nice 13:53:17 thx 13:53:25 so it's impossible in general case? 13:53:33 (string-concatenate (intersperse sep list-of-strings)) 13:54:12 damn 13:54:16 wrong window :3 13:54:49 teurastaja: Hm, can't find string-concatenate in R5RS 13:55:04 It's not 13:55:06 srfi-13 13:55:06 fhd: srfi-13 13:55:15 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 13:55:21 you just have to import srfi-13 13:56:01 teurastaja: Well, I was interested in solutions without SRFIs for now, but now I'll know what to do once I change my mind :) 13:56:12 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-13/srfi-13.html#ReverseAppend 13:56:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:00 Then I'd suggest doing it my original suggestion 13:57:22 fhd: srfis will save you the task of implementing common things like a random number generator, hash tables, etc 13:57:35 again: Note that the (apply string-append string-list) idiom is not robust for long lists of strings, as some Scheme implementations limit the number of arguments that may be passed to an n-ary procedure. 13:58:05 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:15 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:58:22 The SRFIs appear to me roughly equivalent of C's glib, or Perl's CPAN 13:59:30 you mean glibc 13:59:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:59:47 unless youre talking about the gnome library 13:59:49 No, I mean glib 13:59:56 And glib is not gnome 14:00:21 GLib is the one that provides strings/resizeable arrays/linked lists/queues/hash tables/etc... 14:00:49 omg you just saved me years of future work 14:04:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:46 by the way, string-concatenate is way more efficient than (apply string-append ls) so you should use it. it allocates a string once 14:05:03 I believe I mentioned that :) 14:05:04 instead of repeatedly reallocating 14:05:23 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:05:27 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:05:31 he should take the advice 14:06:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:06:06 anyways... 14:06:28 got anything interesting to say? 14:06:39 im bored 14:07:26 langmartin [~user@99-44-249-121.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:08:47 (define (time) ((call-with-current-continuation (lambda (k) (k k))) (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (k) (k k))))) 14:09:01 That's not time 14:09:11 never ends and its continuous 14:09:23 so.... it could represent time 14:10:29 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:01 it never has the time to be reduced. it only grows 14:11:02 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 14:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:50 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:07 and since youre applying the next continuation to its next continuation... 14:12:43 time is a series of patterns in space 14:12:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:12:52 ijp [~user@host86-168-33-244.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:13:11 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:13:54 and in scheme, data (space) and computation (time) is equivalent 14:14:17 Not so, with tail-calling 14:14:27 Algorithms can consume time without consuming space 14:14:36 -!- metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat [quit]] 14:14:50 not this one 14:14:56 but show how 14:15:28 without the OS 14:16:11 youre right, but there needs some space 14:16:23 maybe it doesnt grow but there is space used 14:17:59 take for example::loop 14:18:01 xor ax, ax 14:18:03 jmp loop 14:18:07 :loop 14:18:08 xor ax, ax 14:18:10 jmp loop 14:18:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:56 there is one register which continuously takes computation time while using the space of the register 14:19:32 even if you trim it to: 14:19:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:19:42 :loop 14:19:43 jmp loop 14:20:02 (let loop () (loop)) 14:20:19 the di index still needs to hold the address 14:20:25 *register 14:20:40 so theres always space involved 14:20:45 when there is time 14:20:55 where there is space 14:20:58 Space, yes. But not /growing/ space. The memory space consumed is constant 14:21:23 still... 14:21:28 its space 14:21:36 No algorithm can consume more space than time, because touching that space requires time. But it can quite easily consume more time than space, because it can re-use the same space 14:23:36 A program that doesn't consume space is useless by definition 14:23:39 what about something like: (unleash power-supply max-power) 14:23:50 LeoNerd: Needed some changes, but now it works :) 14:23:53 LeoNerd: (define (string-join sep str . strs) (string str (if (pair? strs) (string sep (apply string-join (cons sep strs))) ""))) 14:24:13 -!- aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:24:54 you do you consider addresses to be like space? probably... 14:25:06 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:12 its not in the data segment though 14:25:21 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:24 wrong 14:25:28 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:35 -!- fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:37 backspace... 14:25:42 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:25:49 'string' takes string arguments? 14:25:51 Not in my scheme! 14:26:08 -!- baggito [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:26:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:26:33 I assume he means string-append 14:26:34 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@46.4.131.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:46 fhd: you stubborn purist... use string-concatenate! 14:26:47 *he/she/eir 14:26:56 teurastaja: Hey, that was from LeoNerd :) 14:27:10 teurastaja: Ah, you mean why I'm not using SRFIs? 14:27:14 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:17 teurastaja: They aren't available (yet) in my impl 14:27:34 fhd: change it then 14:27:37 theres a lot 14:28:34 since im quebecois, id suggest you use gauche or gambit unless you want a microcontroller implementation 14:28:47 teurastaja: Yeah I know, it's hard to get stuff done without them 14:29:06 fhd: its hard enough WITH them 14:29:25 if you want to learn, tackle real problems 14:29:48 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #scheme 14:29:54 leppie: /mine/ does :) 14:30:15 leppie: Perl doesn't have a native character type, so I just use one-char strings. So they're somewhat interchangable 14:30:17 good programmers write code, great programmers reuse code 14:30:33 LeoNerd: I suspect you also have this then: (define string-append string) 14:31:22 teurastaja: I'm aware of that, don't worry :) 14:31:24 for productivity, correctness and the expertise of open source programmers 14:31:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:11 baggito [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:32:18 if you want great character handling and the ability to write real-world programs, i suggest you use gauche 14:32:30 aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 14:32:37 doesnt get in your way 14:32:57 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:33:19 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #scheme 14:34:22 you could always use something like sisc scheme if you need a simple implementation you can use to test online (or the usual way) and it also has support for a lot of srfis 14:35:02 when you use srfis, you dont need to worry about portability 14:35:43 i used to be as much of a purist as you, but i didnt get anything done 14:36:02 teurastaja: I'm practical at work, but a purist at home. 14:36:24 teurastaja: I've spent 2 months on a project at home, want to do a portable notepad program. I've yet to write the first line. :) 14:36:36 ticking [~janpaulbu@tmo-110-179.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #scheme 14:36:51 thats why you wont achieve anything 14:36:53 trust me 14:36:59 at least home 14:37:04 Indeed. 14:37:08 -!- confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:56 r5rs is simply too small and old 14:38:06 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@tmo-110-179.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:08 you should read r7rs draft 5 14:38:18 and the srfis 14:38:24 teurastaja: Actually, my latest theory is that I should use scheme as a generator. 14:38:28 then youll get something done 14:38:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:38:40 generator for what? 14:38:42 R5 is a bit odd, IMHO. On the one hand it has a bunch of slightly odd library functions you can trivially build if you need them, on the other it is missing quite a few what I'd call essentials 14:38:47 teurastaja: The program. :) 14:38:55 fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 14:39:12 generator of what? 14:39:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:39:33 teurastaja: I'm toying with the notion that I should write a program in lisp... As data... And have that interpret the data and emit source code or byte code for the target platform. 14:40:00 teurastaja: Basically, half of a bug-ridden, slow version of lisp, which I used lisp for. 14:41:08 teurastaja: I'm no purist, I like libraries :) 14:41:14 teurastaja: Basically I'd implement it in lisp, but the result won't have eval. 14:41:37 *Arafangion* gets some sleep. 14:43:42 LeoNerd: this is well known 14:44:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:46:51 sleep? wow, youre far 14:46:59 its morning here 14:47:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-224-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:18 teurastaja: That's why I'm going to get some sleep. :/ 14:47:22 teurastaja: It's almost 2am. 14:47:44 whats the point of USING scheme if you dont use code written in scheme 14:48:01 its 9:47 here 14:48:03 teurastaja: No need to include the runtime. 14:48:09 where are you? 14:48:17 teurastaja: Which helps if you're wanting to write a tiny application. 14:48:30 Why? Because I'm a purist. 14:48:31 you can just import parts 14:48:52 Yeah, I'll be thinking about it for another two months. :) 14:48:56 if youre such a purist, learn ASM 14:49:04 More than likely I'll say "**** it, I'll use Kava" or something. 14:49:17 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:18 As for where I am... That'll be Sydney, Australia. 14:49:20 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-224-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:49:42 i think its like 14 hours of plane from where i am 14:49:54 Probably. 14:50:03 14 hours sounds about average(!) 14:50:30 14 hours in a car here just gets you to the next province 14:50:47 G'night! 14:50:56 canada and its wideness.... 14:51:15 Love to chat, but too tired. :) 14:51:20 (sleep 'tight) 14:51:34 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:54:27 xor ax, ax 14:54:29 dec ax 14:54:30 push ax 14:54:32 inc ax 14:54:33 push ax 14:54:35 retf 14:54:42 this means you reboot 14:54:49 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:54:50 but it will take you a night 14:57:06 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:57:07 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1213-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:57:17 even though its the fastest reboot sequence of operations known 14:57:44 its what your computer does when you reboot it 14:58:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:58:38 it works by jumping to another address space 14:58:50 which causes reboot 14:58:57 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 14:59:11 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:00:04 bored 15:00:44 cant find any project on github that is not implementing or extending scheme 15:00:44 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:01:00 except a window manager 15:01:16 what do you mean by extension. libraries? 15:01:20 yes 15:01:21 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:41 is scsh in active development? 15:01:43 hmm, the maintainer of gnubik was looking for someone to rewrite its core in guile 15:01:47 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:02:30 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:28 hmm... 3d graph coloring problem pretty much like the sudoku im making 15:03:41 but mine is not in 3d 15:04:01 something else? 15:04:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:06 i could do games but is there something else? 15:05:45 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:09:23 https://github.com/spk121/zile - a text editor? 15:09:52 its becoming interesting 15:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:40 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:44 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:12:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:13:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120208012847]] 15:14:49 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:52 rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1200-43.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 15:17:45 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:18:49 seems coded in c though 15:18:52 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:19:40 guile is embedded in it, but it's still mostly in C, yes 15:20:33 is the main goal about translating to guile? 15:20:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:21:04 I think it's just meant to be a fun hack 15:21:24 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:24:50 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:25:25 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:28:39 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 15:31:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:55 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:32:28 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-212-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 15:32:37 still browsing and disappointed 15:33:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:05 *wingo* updates his /ignore list 15:34:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:35:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:35:19 me? 15:35:30 wingo ignores me? 15:36:13 that doesn't sound like him 15:36:34 why would he ignore me? 15:37:04 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:09 o 15:37:13 *qu1j0t3* reads back 15:37:37 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-51.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:38:21 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:40:28 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:41:23 -!- gnomon 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[~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 19:11:42 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 19:12:02 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 19:14:35 -!- mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:07 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:20:15 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-161-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:20:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:28:19 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:44 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:45 I have a let in my syntax-case. Inside one of the bindings that the let introduces, I want to be able to pass in the syntax object to a defined function so that if other arguments to that function are invalid, I can do a raise-syntax-error using the syntax to give me the correct file/line/column information 19:34:55 The issue is that I can't figure out how to pass in the correct syntax object 19:35:20 #'(let ( (button-flag (button-action-to-event-flag 'action stx)) ) button-flag) 19:35:26 stx is the syntax object 19:35:57 That gives me "identifier used out of context in: stx" 19:36:11 button-action-to-event-flag is supposed to be a function called by the macro? 19:36:47 yes 19:37:09 I want to give that function a syntax object it can use raise-syntax-error with 19:37:19 well, that won't happen because you've used syntax instead of quasisyntax 19:37:30 I've been trying different combinations of stuff 19:37:41 #`(let ((button-flag #,(button-action-to-event-flag 'action stx))) button-flag) 19:37:58 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #scheme 19:38:18 Doing that complains that the function isn't defined 19:38:28 however, if I change it to a define-for-syntax instead of a define 19:38:29 did you define the function? 19:38:44 inside the function I'm using things that are defined at the top level 19:38:52 and it doesn't like that if I make it a define-for-syntax 19:39:02 let me paste my whole script, hold on 19:39:04 right, it's a question of which phase the definition takes place in 19:39:07 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 19:39:09 Yeah 19:39:16 I can't figure out how to get to the correct phase 19:39:30 if you use define, it isn't defined for the macro, since evaluation takes place after expansion 19:39:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:43 -!- tizoc is now known as tizoc_ 19:40:14 define-for-syntax will make it available for use at expansion time 19:40:24 but then it evaluates at phase 1, right? 19:40:28 so none of my phase 0 things are available 19:40:58 you could solve this by moving them into another module and importing at phase 1 19:41:08 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-48-222-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:41:48 I don't think I can do that 19:41:55 this is being compiled into our own scripting language 19:41:58 if you don't have a lot, I like to just stick it in the macro transformer itself (define-syntax foo (lambda (stx) (define bar ...) (syntax-case ...))) 19:42:42 though that obviously has implications if you want to use it in multiple macros 19:43:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127773 19:43:33 PfhorSlayer: how does that affect it? 19:44:07 The problem is that I want to use that same button-action-to-event-flag macro in multiple define-syntaxes 19:44:20 so I can't just stick it inside of the syntax 19:44:28 otherwise I have to duplicate it, which defeats the purpose of having it 19:44:29 I was talking about the module solution 19:44:48 I don't think we really support modules in that way 19:45:17 what? you're using modules already 19:45:23 "the file that contains it is (import-ed) above" 19:45:24 I'm confused then, maybe you can elaborate? 19:46:30 -!- virl [~virl__@85-127-156-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:46:40 each module gets imported at a specific phase as specified by you. If you need them at expand time, you just (import (for (module) expand0)) or whatever 19:47:19 virl [~virl__@85-127-92-121.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 19:47:36 if you need a bunch of functions that can be used in different phases, the best thing to is put them in a module, and import at appropriate phase 19:47:45 I don't think I can do it that way, because the module that contains melee-event-flag is used all over the place in different phases 19:47:55 and it's also preprocessed and converted to a C++ header 19:47:59 imports can happen at multiple phases 19:48:04 yeah? 19:49:37 yes 19:49:40 I think I'm confused about what is in what phase, then 19:49:56 that button-action-to-event-flag define is in phase 0, right? 19:50:18 yes 19:50:37 but when I try to use it in my define-syntax, I'm trying to use it during macro expansion which is at phase 1, right? 19:50:49 yes 19:51:08 but I can't just put IT at phase 1, because it uses things that are defined at phase 0 19:51:33 and there's no way to lower the phase for a block of expressions or something? 19:52:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #scheme 19:52:13 not really, since lower phases happen after the higher phases have ran 19:52:52 think of each phase as being sort of like a compiler pass 19:54:02 I'm looking at other source in our engine that uses a define-syntax but then a regular syntax quote (not quasi) and then is able to use phase 0 constructs 19:54:19 Is it the quasiquote that is causing it to change phases? 19:55:16 Right, so phase 0 defines everything, then phase 1 goes through and expands macros by replacing their use with their defintions, etc? 19:55:32 phase 0 happens _after_ phase 1 19:55:37 phase 2 would be expanding the macros that the original macros used, etc? 19:55:40 OH! 19:56:24 so when I'm in phase 1 there's not even any idea about things in phase 0 19:57:23 When the compiler encounters a use of my macro then, how does it process it? 19:57:26 well, you have information about lexical context, but you can't get the value because it doesn't have one yet 19:57:46 How does it know how many phases it has to process? 19:57:57 or does it do expansion first and then processes the phases backwards? 19:57:57 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:17 *ijp* looks around for a real macro expert 19:58:26 Thank you, by the way :) 19:58:33 I may only be confusing things further 19:59:15 -!- bigfg is now known as bfig 20:01:46 anyone in here know howto get spiffy to serve a directory listing? 20:01:51 I cant hak it to work 20:01:59 with simple-directory-listing 20:02:07 none of my guessing coming to any gain 20:03:10 kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:04:13 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:04:19 to answer your question of quasisyntax. Think of syntax like quote. If you use syntax, the value is 'returned' and won't get further expanded/ran til later. 20:04:47 but with quasisyntax, like quasiquote, the unsyntax'ed stuff needs to be ran at this level 20:05:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:01 -!- Cristi_ [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:10:40 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 20:13:59 I see 20:14:04 I figured out a solution 20:14:27 instead of passing in the "stx" syntax, I just created a syntax object out of the action template parameter 20:14:32 #'action 20:17:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:58 Next step: figuring out how to provide default values for all the parameters that can be passed to my syntax without having to write all the combinations out and it turning into a combinatorial nightmare 20:18:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:21:38 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 20:26:42 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:29:09 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:35 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 20:33:45 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:46 The public review process for R7RS-small is now open and will be for the next 4 months. Details are at http://scheme-reports.org/2012/process1.html . Both formal and informal comments are straightforward postings to scheme-reports at scheme-reports.org; formal comments have to be marked as such and will get formal replies from the WG. 20:37:53 -!- emma_ is now known as em 20:39:36 how do you distinguish between an informal and a formal comment? formal comments are the ones that propose a change? 20:40:13 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:42:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:43:50 -!- em is now known as emma 20:44:17 No, it's just that you have a formal guarantee that a formal comment will get a formal reply. 20:44:28 -!- emma is now known as em 20:44:41 ah, ok 20:44:41 Informal comments are easier, and we will attempt to process them in the same way, but they don't go into the tracking system as such unless they do propose a change. 20:44:56 Informal comments are also easier on the editors. 20:56:14 Of course, some formal comments may get responses that mean "I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." (Charles Babbage) 21:03:45 LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has joined #scheme 21:04:18 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-222-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:38 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:05 -!- amoe_ is now known as amoe 21:21:30 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-161-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:36 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-220-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:23:46 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D2C4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:15 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:33 snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 21:27:37 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:28:39 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D2C4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:51 -!- hypnocat_ [~hypnocat@ool-4570a3e0.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 21:31:53 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:42 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 21:38:15 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:48 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 21:46:17 joast [~rick@98.145.91.18] has joined #scheme 21:49:05 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D2C4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:49:15 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:39 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:12 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:35 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:54:28 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:00 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 21:57:49 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:59:39 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 22:01:38 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:40 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:20 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 22:03:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:12 -!- ayberk [~ayberk@88.241.133.23] has quit [] 22:06:22 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:06:51 -!- lawful_evil [~ddcgavins@64-31-104-122.static-ip.telepacific.net] has left #scheme 22:13:58 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D2C4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:18:03 -!- Guest88418 is now known as X-Scale 22:18:52 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:57 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 22:21:54 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:33:30 -!- noth1ng is now known as Inode 22:36:55 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:03 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@64.106.20.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:46 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #scheme 22:49:05 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:56:21 -!- jeapostr1phe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:32 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-49-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:34 masm [~masm@bl18-49-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:07:21 Let's say I have an associative list like ((key0 . value0) (key1 . value1) ...) 23:07:56 And let's also say I have a define syntax that has a pattern that expects a bunch of identifiers and such 23:08:22 Is there any way for me to, at runtime, determine how I'd need to reorder my alist to make it match the pattern in the syntax? 23:10:02 I'm trying to write a define-syntax wrapper that can help me deal with the combinatorial explosion of cases when I want to be able to specify only certain parameters and have others take default values, and to be able to specify them in any order 23:15:06 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:35:42 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:38:55 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:03 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:13 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 23:59:57 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl]