00:04:45 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:02 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:05:32 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 00:06:04 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:06:18 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 00:08:44 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:51 Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #scheme 00:08:59 nyingen: if chibi is broken in any way please report a bug! 00:09:54 foof`: actually, all my problems seemed to have been a result of misunderstanding the module system (aside from that bug about 'load' not working) 00:10:32 I've been working with it some more today and I take back my hasty use of the word 'broken', apologies 00:11:29 What about the module system confused you? I can improve the docs (I think the R7RS draft gives a better explanatation). 00:12:11 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:44 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 00:19:08 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:27 phao [phao@187.1.250.222] has joined #scheme 00:22:48 -!- phao [phao@187.1.250.222] has left #scheme 00:22:51 foof`: I had some trouble figuring out how to get it to find a module I made, I think. I can get back to you on that if I can think of anything specific 00:22:51 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:51 foof`: thanks for the quick response on the mailing list (and in here), highly appreciated 00:28:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:32:46 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 00:38:04 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:05 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:47:34 -!- ijp [~user@host86-179-78-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:49 chromati` [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:49:06 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-103.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:11 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:49:27 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 00:51:34 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-74-98-32-113.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:25 Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:56:05 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 00:56:53 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:29 kniu [~kniu@pool-74-98-32-113.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:04:57 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:08:10 virl [~virl__@85-127-156-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 01:11:17 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 01:20:48 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:21:39 hoi 01:29:07 -!- samth_ [~samth@dhc023761.med.harvard.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:44 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:33:09 davidh [~user@f053008089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 01:33:17 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:33:30 -!- gnomon_ [~gnomon@174.119.4.137] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:33:37 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:33:42 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:38:17 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-231-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 01:38:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:17 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:45:20 -!- ysph [~user@mobile-166-147-125-035.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:10 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:08 -!- davidh [~user@f053008089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:41 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-51-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:52:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:01:14 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-231-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:06 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:05 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:24:43 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has joined #scheme 02:47:00 wow 02:47:13 SRFI 99 records are incomprehensible, or chibi's implementation of them is broken 02:53:58 How? 02:54:49 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:01:14 elly: What is incomprehensible and/or broken, specifically? 03:01:52 one sec, I will produce an example 03:05:50 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has joined #scheme 03:06:53 http://www.leptoquark.net/~elly/srfi-99.scm 03:17:08 I think this is the recrudescence of a bug I reported months ago. 03:29:31 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #scheme 03:33:06 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 03:33:51 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has joined #scheme 03:36:15 Part of the problem with SRFIs on Chibi is that Chibi doesn't use reference implementations for size/space reasons, and there aren't adequate test suites. 03:42:11 :( 03:42:35 On the other hand, Chicken's implementation is broken too. 03:43:31 SRFI 99 is very hard to understand 03:43:36 it is not clear to me what the three layers are 03:44:24 The syntactic layer is just SRFI 9 with some extensions. 03:45:30 The procedural layer lets you create record type descriptors (RTDs) and their constructors, accessors, and mutators. The inspection layer lets you look inside RTDs and determine their relationships. 03:46:00 So if you just want to use a few record types, the syntactic layer is what you want. 03:46:14 If you want to create new types at run time, you need the procedural layer. 03:46:26 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:46:27 If you need to determine the relationships between types, you need the inspection layer. 03:47:10 hm 03:47:10 okay 03:47:15 that was not at all clear 03:47:33 Hmm. 03:48:26 SRFI 9 lets you create new Scheme types from scratch for use in your code. You specify the names of the constructor, the field accessors, and the mutators. Often that's plenty. 03:48:46 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has joined #scheme 03:48:54 SRFI 99 syntactic lets you create subtypes of existing record types, and gives you some syntactic convenience (it will make up names for you). 03:49:05 As long as you know in advance what new types you need, they suffice. 03:49:43 okay, so really I want to use SRFI 9. 03:49:56 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-125.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:50:39 In that case, (import (srfi 9)) if you are using the default language, or if you are using (scheme base), then it's already there. 03:51:07 cool :) 03:51:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-166-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:24 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 04:00:38 lawful_evil [~g@pool-108-13-218-184.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:39 SRFI 9 also has the advantage of being portable to almost every Scheme, although the incantation needed to invoke it varies a lot. 04:00:42 hello 04:00:54 lawful_evil: hola 04:00:56 Hey ho. 04:01:30 I am curious about chicken and its web stuff, does it use say 4 cpu if available or would it tend to be stuck on 1 cpu? 04:01:38 No, it would be stuck on one. 04:01:47 I found that chicken has a binding to openmpi 04:02:14 The whole multiple cpu thing and how you build programs to take advantage of them is in my mind today. 04:02:20 That is to say, threaded code is stuck on one. If your code is running in separate Unix/Windows processes, then of course they can be on multiple cores/CPUs. 04:02:44 how do schemes allow building of programs that use N cpu? 04:03:03 It all depends on the implementation. 04:03:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:08 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:33 reading on chicken site.......hard to find anything that mentions using N cpus.. 04:05:23 -!- r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:31 lawful_evil: the easiest way is to split into communicating processes. but at some point you might dream of Erlang... 04:05:34 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host246-238-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:22 lawful_evil: Chicken has thread support. fwiw. http://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Unit%20srfi-18 04:06:44 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:06:55 levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:38 oh its an srfi, woa 04:08:43 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:08:46 jcowan: I don't recall any bugs with rtd-constructor. 04:08:51 so I am guessing then that the web tools use that? 04:09:09 Must a continuation use a thread? 04:09:21 In Chicken, threads are continuations of a particular kind. 04:09:58 the-beam` [~user@94.72.149.10] has joined #scheme 04:10:01 foof`: I don't remember the details either; it was very early in the SRFI 99 release. It's even possible that it was a Chicken bug. 04:10:13 But elly's bug is very real, and makes SRFI 99 unusual. 04:10:44 I noticed paul graham mentioned that viaweb forked a process that then had a conversation with the web client, I wondered if that involved forking a lisp interpreter for each client? I also wonder if the whole java spring iversion of control thing is an implementation of this idea, where the process which is then on a os thread, can spawn others to do queries or build html resoponses n stuff 04:11:09 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:09 -!- the-beamacs [~user@94.72.149.10] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:09 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:24 -!- kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 435 seconds] 04:11:50 kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has joined #scheme 04:12:40 I am a bit over my head perhaps need to read some relevant stuff. 04:14:36 does the fork an interpreter and let it completely hand 1 client avoid need for threading? 04:14:51 paul graham mentions using closures to fake continuations 04:16:21 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:21 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:21 -!- cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:35 cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has joined #scheme 04:17:35 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 04:18:26 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:20 Ah, the test suite doesn't cover that case - seems to be a bug in make-rtd. 04:19:25 I'll fix it shortly. 04:19:36 Note for SRFI-99 the reference implementation isn't really an option. 04:20:48 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #scheme 04:22:32 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-163-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:58 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-152-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:23:14 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:23:35 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 04:23:38 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsefzxhdtktkaqab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:38 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:47 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #scheme 04:24:08 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:14 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:16 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:12 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:27:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcfoxksekascglhw] has joined #scheme 04:27:23 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:28 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 04:27:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:29:01 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has joined #scheme 04:29:51 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:30:54 foof`: Indeed. I was speaking in general. 04:32:46 CampinSa1 [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:34:20 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34:20 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34:45 -!- the-beam` [~user@94.72.149.10] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:45 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:45 -!- qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:35:59 the-beam` [~user@94.72.149.10] has joined #scheme 04:36:28 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #scheme 04:36:36 qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #scheme 04:38:36 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:38:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 04:39:38 elly: Fixed and pushed, I just had the argument order flipped on make-rtd. The test cases for rtd-* were using an already syntactically defined record. 04:40:04 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:40:05 oh, woo 04:40:06 thanks 04:49:37 lawful_evil: continuations and threads are orthogonal. "The difference becomes visible when you cast pointers." 04:49:42 lawful_evil: oops, bad paste 04:49:48 lawful_evil: "Each thread has its own dynamic environment" 04:52:43 orthogonal 04:52:49 a greek island? 04:53:13 cast pointers... 04:53:21 qu1j0t3: That was pretty confusing there. 04:53:28 I had a magicuser who could cast fireball. 04:55:19 erm yes 04:55:37 please ignore the first sentence between ""; it was meant to be the second :) 04:56:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:50 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:24 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:06:26 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:07:48 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:10:14 -!- CampinSa1 [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:12:19 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has joined #scheme 05:13:25 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-231-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 05:14:45 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:32:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has joined #scheme 05:35:42 so, dumb question, but, how do I get the nth element of a list? 05:35:54 is this standard? it doesn't seem to be in srfi-1 if it isn't... 05:37:46 (list-ref ls 8) 05:37:51 or (ninth ls) from srfi-1 05:39:10 huh, somehow I read 9th... 05:46:49 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-231-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:47:43 they are phonetically similar 05:48:55 everyone knows you spell that as nineth 05:49:41 phao [phao@187.1.250.222] has joined #scheme 05:57:08 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.226] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:57:34 hypnocat_ [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has joined #scheme 05:57:52 -!- hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:57:53 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:53 -!- hypnocat_ is now known as hypnocat 05:58:22 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:58 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 06:03:04 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #scheme 06:03:20 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:05:07 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:01 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:12:40 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 06:12:40 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 06:12:40 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 06:23:14 -!- kmc [~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:23:40 kmc [~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:36:17 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #scheme 06:44:53 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:59 -!- kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:46:24 -!- the-beam` [~user@94.72.149.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:22 kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has joined #scheme 06:50:15 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 06:51:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.172.19] has joined #scheme 06:51:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.172.19] has quit [Changing host] 06:51:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 06:51:45 -!- phao [phao@187.1.250.222] has left #scheme 07:01:57 otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:02:03 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:04:04 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:08:33 -!- otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:58 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:36:04 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:38:23 -!- snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:59 snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 07:41:45 -!- levi` is now known as levi 07:42:06 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:54:18 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:01 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 08:01:38 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:04:18 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 08:15:44 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:18:16 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:50 -!- chromati` [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:49:03 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbed3ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:49:12 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d067f97.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 08:57:22 phao_ [phao@177.27.8.142] has joined #scheme 08:57:23 -!- phao_ is now known as phao 09:06:04 :) 09:07:09 (+ 2 3) 09:07:18 is + considered a subexpression? 09:07:18 http://picolisp.com/5000/!wiki?EquivalenceCodeData 09:07:28 along with 2 and 3. 09:07:35 wow this is some intersting reads 09:07:52 chromaticwt: in scheme, yes. 09:09:55 lawful_evil: sicp too ;-) 09:11:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 09:21:52 so subexpressions in an expression is just like taking the output of one function and inputing it into another as an argument? 09:21:59 (+ (/ 10 2) (- 5 4)) 09:22:02 yes. 09:22:06 cool 09:22:22 s/is/are/ 09:26:22 does every procedure return a value? 09:26:27 define for instance? 09:26:36 or is define just a special form? 09:26:42 define is not a procedure. 09:26:48 procedures can return no value. 09:27:02 is it a nil value? or truly nothing at all? 09:27:05 or more than one. 09:27:11 (define (f) (values)) 09:27:17 rudybot: (define (f) (values)) 09:27:18 pjb: your r5rs sandbox is ready 09:27:18 pjb: Done. 09:27:22 rudybot: ,(f) 09:27:22 pjb: error: #:1:0: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote (f)) 09:27:26 rudybot: (f) 09:27:27 pjb: Done. 09:27:59 rudybot: (define (g) (values 1 2)) 09:27:59 pjb: Done. 09:28:02 rudybot: (g) 09:28:02 pjb: ; Value: 1 09:28:03 pjb: ; Value#2: 2 09:28:47 that's multiple values, what about one that returns nothing? 09:29:24 what is no value? Or zero value? 09:29:56 that's what my question was, does a procedure have to return something even if that something is a nil value? 09:30:07 Look at f above! 09:30:32 (f) 09:30:45 rudybot: (f) 09:30:45 chromaticwt: your sandbox is ready 09:30:46 chromaticwt: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: f in module: 'program 09:31:24 so f returns nothing, right? 09:31:40 Mine yes. Yours is not defined. 09:31:47 rudybot: (f) 09:31:47 pjb: Done. 09:31:49 rudybot: (g) 09:31:50 pjb: ; Value: 1 09:31:50 don't mind mine, I tried it in gule. 09:31:51 pjb: ; Value#2: 2 09:32:06 I was only looking at g, sorry about that. 09:32:25 Use a bigger window. Or a smaller font. 09:32:35 so that is truly no value at all not nil? 09:32:49 Yes. 09:32:59 rudybot: (define (h) 'nil) 09:32:59 pjb: Done. 09:33:00 ok 09:33:02 rudybot: (h) 09:33:02 pjb: ; Value: nil 09:33:06 rudybot: (f) 09:33:06 pjb: Done. 09:34:34 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 09:43:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:57:00 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:58:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 10:03:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-125.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:13:39 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 10:14:26 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:58 -!- poucet_ [~chris@li23-146.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:15:05 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:35 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:15:48 poucet [~chris@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 10:16:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:52 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:17:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 10:31:06 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:32:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 10:38:38 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 10:39:55 masm [~masm@bl18-51-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:55:04 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 10:55:12 djcb` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 10:56:35 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 11:06:32 rostayob [~rostayob@host86-143-150-219.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 11:12:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:04 -!- kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:14:12 -!- lawful_evil [~g@pool-108-13-218-184.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 11:15:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:25:28 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:26:20 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:12 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 11:27:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 11:32:18 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 11:34:26 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #scheme 11:35:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:29 djcb`` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 11:37:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 11:39:10 -!- djcb` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:09 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 11:43:36 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:10 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@host86-143-150-219.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:49:27 is it a good idea to think of composition of fuctions as being analogous to unix pipes? 11:49:57 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:58 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:51:45 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 11:52:02 each function is like a unix command and you chain them together. 11:53:54 who cares, it is a simple mathematical operation. 11:54:42 xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has joined #scheme 11:55:17 cat 1 | add 2 | add 3 11:55:24 (+ (+ 1 2) 3) 11:55:47 chromaticwt: it is better to think of unix pipes as composition of functions! 11:57:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:00:01 UNIX pipes are about data flow. Function composition and call semantics are more about control flow 12:04:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:06:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 12:11:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:19 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:12:27 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:12:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 12:25:09 snizzo [~quassel@host246-238-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 12:26:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:29 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qmymgjtklzwmugot] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:27:45 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcfoxksekascglhw] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:28:03 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:17 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:28:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 12:28:23 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:28:44 chromaticwt, some are, some not 12:28:44 list operations are better seen like that 12:28:54 than others. 12:29:23 I mean... look at the addition example pjb gave... it's correct, but I don't think that maps into pipes/filters very well 12:29:51 The fundamental difference being operating on a stream basically as soon as it starts flowing. 12:32:08 chromaticwt, and it's very interesting that the "first" (the one I know is the first) document suggesting what we now thing is the unix pipes talked about the idea of composition 12:35:26 snizzo_ [~quassel@host89-238-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 12:35:51 chromaticwt, doc.cat-v.org/unix/pipes/ 12:35:54 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host246-238-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:03 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhzexyohwbpgexxx] has joined #scheme 12:36:48 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 12:38:16 I think I am confusing papers =) But anyway... 12:39:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:19 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 12:42:41 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:42:50 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:15 snizzo [~quassel@host253-1-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 12:45:34 -!- snizzo_ [~quassel@host89-238-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:19 -!- eno 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quit [Changing host] 17:21:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:26:41 csmrfx [csmr@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #scheme 17:27:31 So far I've been in #ruby, #programming, #xml and #javascript and have still not gotten *any* help as to how to implement a nice templating parser without shooting myself in the foot. 17:28:03 Would any of you know a nice reference text I should read before writing a parser for dsl aimed at XSLT? 17:29:12 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 17:29:33 csmrfx, do you know about regular languages? 17:29:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:06 csmrfx, do you know about deterministic stack automatons? 17:30:49 I know what a regular language is, even if I cannot probably correctly formulate the formal definition of such 17:31:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:31:08 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:31:08 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:31:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:31:12 deterministic stack automaton as a term is not familiar to me 17:31:28 you don't need regular languages, you need context free grammars, which is a sort of extension... that's the easy way to see them for me anyway 17:31:44 same as deterministic pushdown automaton? 17:31:49 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:53 i think so 17:32:04 consider implementing one of those 17:32:13 just write the grammar rules and a generic parser for those rules 17:33:58 ie: xml = BODY; BODY = TREE*; TREE = TREE with A in some regular language... etc. 17:34:32 I had a simple plan in only non-cs-majors terms: input string tokenized. tokens used to traverse a rule-set tree (using ruby/js syntax rules = { token_a: do_a(t, l), token_b: eof, token_c: { t_x: eof, t_y: whatever }} - then that tree is traversed) 17:34:42 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:27 csmrfx, it doesn't matter if you're not a cs major, just consider the structure of the rules. usually it is something like this (in regular language): [terms] (| terms)*, where terms are either the name of a language or a regular expression 17:36:40 do you understand what i just wrote? 17:37:13 Yes, I am trying to formulate in my mind if thats kind of the same or if there really is some diff 17:37:15 ie, a simple example: S = e | hS. what language have i defined? 17:37:46 also reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_pushdown_automaton and figuring where that stand in terms of your & my pseudocode 17:38:23 bfgun what. lisp? huh? 17:38:43 csmrfx, one sec gotta do something 17:38:51 let's go priv so we don't spam the chat 17:38:59 ok 17:39:42 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:41:21 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:41:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:45:40 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:49:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:59:35 csmrfx: you could check out some texts like the Dragon Book, or one that I found pretty clear was Parsing Techniques - A practical guide http://dickgrune.com/Books/PTAPG_1st_Edition/ 18:00:54 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:52 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:03 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #scheme 18:14:48 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:15:34 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping 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seconds] 18:27:16 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 18:29:14 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #scheme 18:30:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:33:50 kniu [~kniu@pool-74-98-32-113.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:59 teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:36:52 id like general advice on my code. also, id like help understanding how to implement and use amb for this 18:36:54 http://pastebin.com/M5gBzKpM 18:38:36 qu1j0t3: ok, thats brilliant 18:38:54 I knew there would be some proper nice people on #scheme u8) 18:38:59 why would you use amb? Sudoko is completely deterministic 18:39:47 for the solver 18:40:45 if set-possibilities! doesnt bring new solutions, resort to trial-and-error 18:40:47 but trial and error is a stupid way to do it 18:41:36 im not done. it will try other stuff before but i wrote this fast 18:42:32 trial-and-error will ultimately be used when theres no other option 18:42:42 if there is no option, then the puzzle isn't solvable 18:43:29 and giving one is false 18:43:57 i solve diabolic sudokus by hand in usually 5 minutes, but ive seen hard sudokus that required trial-and-error with a pencil 18:44:24 csmrfx: yw. 18:44:28 *qu1j0t3* bbl 18:44:31 giving one and seeing if it fails or not 18:45:17 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.250] has quit [Quit: ] 18:45:39 for generation and pruning, i want to use the originak grid as much as possible to test for inconsistancies 18:45:57 aka: a unique solution 18:46:25 do you have a technique that works all the time? 18:46:43 if so, i will abandon amb 18:47:18 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 18:47:38 but please read the code before commenting 18:50:08 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 18:50:46 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:53:16 im starting to work on amb because i want it to work as soon as possible and then optimize. unless amb is not required in your solution 18:53:41 djcb`` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:55:17 -!- djcb` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:00:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:12 -!- porco [~porco@123.114.97.72] has quit [] 19:04:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:21 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:21 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:06:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 19:08:16 djcb``` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:09:43 -!- djcb``` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:44 -!- djcb`` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #scheme 19:10:03 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:35 I did it as a constraint solver 19:10:58 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:11:03 each cell knew about its line|row|square 19:11:13 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 19:11:30 if you get down to one possibility you tell them so that they can remove it from their own list 19:11:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:14 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host154-156-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:24 snizzo [~quassel@host194-156-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:12:24 you either get to the state where it is impossible to work out, or it finishes 19:13:37 basically, the same way I would solve a sudoku by hand 19:15:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:32 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:00 thumbs up for the constraint solver (when i read about it the first thought was : great for sudoku solver) 19:17:14 -!- teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:36 teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:19:39 ijp: did you measure the performance of your constraint solver against alternative solutions? 19:19:51 I can't remember, this was years ago 19:20:09 probably not 19:22:10 this is in my comments: 19:22:12 #| rewrite so that: 19:22:14 | unique group possibilities assign the right cell 19:22:15 |# 19:24:57 i want my generator to make puzzles that are so hard that you need to drop your pen and get a pencil 19:25:03 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:25:14 i wonder how this is done 19:25:34 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:35 i have a book full of those 19:26:25 where you need to pick a cell with 2 possibilities and try one 19:28:28 -!- confab_ is now known as confab 19:33:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:12 anyway, amb. amb isn't too difficult to write if you have some experience with continuations. Maybe a dozen lines. 19:36:53 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:39:34 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 19:39:35 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:39:42 rudybot: eval (let ((x (amb 1 2 3 4 5 6)) (y (amb 1 2 3 4 5 6)) (z (amb 1 2 3 4 5 6))) (if (= (* z z) (+ (* x x) (* y y))) (list x y z) (amb))) 19:39:42 ijp: ; Value: (3 4 5) 19:39:46 rudybot: eval (amb) 19:39:46 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:54 :( 19:40:02 did I kill it? 19:40:07 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:41:41 snizzo_ [~quassel@host39-238-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:42:14 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host194-156-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:07 teurastaja: if you give up https://gist.github.com/1810451 19:45:04 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 19:46:17 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:27 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:50:21 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:16 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1221-152.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:52:06 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:09 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 19:55:28 -!- csmrfx [csmr@hilla.kapsi.fi] has left #scheme 19:58:41 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:17 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:05:12 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:19 As a haskell programmer, I'm intrigued by srfi-26, which I just found 20:06:43 (via google searches about how to do currying/partial-application in scheme) 20:07:07 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:07 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:07:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:10:40 (define (papply f . args-l) (lambda args-r (apply f (append args-l args-r)))) is a really simple way, but to do it well you really need arity inspection 20:13:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:14:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has joined #scheme 20:14:11 I see 20:14:50 I found another document describing how formal currying could be implemented, but srfi-26 specifically discusses why it doesn't implement it that way, which was interesting 20:14:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:14:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:15:04 -!- virl [~virl__@85-127-156-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:03 scheme is a free language for experimental implementations. limits are imposed for compatibility 20:16:12 lol, compatibility 20:16:25 portability 20:16:31 again, lol 20:16:44 i'll have to agree with ijp 20:16:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:55 I had a horrible experience programming a system that used an old version of SIOD 20:17:04 without srfis, wed write implementation-specific code 20:17:05 technically it was scheme, but no example code seemed to work properly 20:17:15 we all, still, write implementation specific code 20:17:52 it's easier in r6rs, and presumably in r7rs, but still implementation-specific is the common case 20:17:55 is this implementation-specific? except for import: imgur.com/YOKQI 20:18:03 oops 20:18:11 wrong link 20:18:23 i waxs helping someone elsewhere 20:18:25 hold on 20:18:44 and srfi's are exactly all widely portable 20:18:45 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.205.249] has joined #scheme 20:18:52 jcowan has a spreadsheet somewhere 20:19:05 -!- ssbr [~scorchsab@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:13 ssbr [~scorchsab@206-188-66-188.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 20:19:14 -!- ssbr [~scorchsab@206-188-66-188.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:19:14 ssbr [~scorchsab@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme 20:19:14 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:31 a spreadsheet showing which implementations support which srfis? 20:19:35 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tRCHK6jWXuKMABKAfoOwWqw&output=html 20:19:56 excellent 20:19:56 http://pastebin.com/M5gBzKpM 20:20:07 i just use 3 srfis 20:20:11 print, for one 20:20:35 when and unless 20:21:05 and ceiling-quotient, are all nonportable 20:21:19 easy to write, but you didn't write them 20:21:29 not in r7rs 20:21:38 which doesn't exist yet 20:22:00 and print won't be in it 20:22:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:22:14 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:22:22 and hopefully it'll drop half those division operators 20:22:37 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 20:22:51 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs-draft-5.pdf 20:22:57 oh, and even with a portable library syntax, you need ensure that they all handle them the same way 20:23:02 hence srfi 97 20:23:11 print is defined 20:23:14 in my source 20:23:27 i could name it print-grid but its a long name 20:23:38 ok, my apology. I was assuming you were aliasing 'write' 20:24:04 teurastaja: you'll note the document says _draft_ 20:24:31 and, as with r6rs, and err5rs, there is no guarantee of implementation other than by chibi 20:25:10 *ijp* takes some happy pills 20:25:28 maybe, but implementations tend to implement r7rs already. did r6rs achieve that? 20:25:32 By the way, is there a decent comparison of different scheme implementations somewhere? 20:25:37 r6rs has 8 implementations 20:25:46 I tried to find such a thing a few days ago when beginning this project, but I couldn't dig up much 20:25:48 *teurastaja* takes some cocaine 20:25:48 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:06 and people who actually cared enough to write portable libraries 20:26:44 -!- snizzo_ [~quassel@host39-238-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:45 given r7rs-small is a conservative extension of r5rs, and all of r7rs-large is optional, I don't expect the situation to improve drastically 20:28:07 but hey, I'm just a cynic 20:29:11 if you were a cynic, you wouldnt own a computer 20:30:50 that statement makes no sense whatsoever. 20:30:56 the scheme community doesn't agree on things, but wishes it does, and will keep producing standards until it figures this out 20:31:05 samth++ 20:31:27 it does make sense 20:32:12 a cynic is an extreme form of simplistic living 20:32:17 if you were referring to the cynic school of greek philosophers then yes 20:32:28 if you are referring to cynicism as she is understood today, no 20:33:22 i cant jk... 20:34:34 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:18 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 20:38:12 Just to be clear, I don't mean to imply this is insolvable; I just think people have unreasonable expectations as to the outcome of the r7rs process. 20:38:29 -!- kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.149.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:36 well... its probably schemes last chance of not dying 20:40:10 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 20:40:16 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-233-21.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:36 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:54 teurastaja: i think that people will still be reading the "lambda the ultimate" papers in 20 years 20:41:08 regardless of rnrs 20:41:30 it'll live on in the myriad scheme implementations still being written :P 20:41:32 and people will still be implementing scheme interpreters for fun 20:42:02 kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:43:02 ...or the language could split and die (not without having changed the landscape of programming languages though) 20:45:15 languages die. the same is true of programming languages; even faster 20:46:52 i think theres something like 10 languages invented everyday 20:47:27 unfortunately almost all of them are rehashes of the same tired concepts 20:47:28 most dont last long 20:47:45 look at lisp 20:47:45 Landin's "The Next 700 programming languages" was called that due to a misprint, but the name has held true in practice 20:48:04 lisp and lisp machines 20:48:23 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:48:33 is there an original lisp language? 20:48:48 the original lisp still kinda lives on in common lisp 20:48:58 except for the dynamic scoping part 20:49:50 i doubt the code really looks the same 20:49:58 it really does 20:50:00 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #scheme 20:50:03 because it was made for lisp machines 20:50:10 and that is incorrect 20:50:24 ah? 20:50:25 lisp predates lisp machines by decades 20:50:29 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-233-21.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 20:50:42 *ijp* may be exagerating slightly 20:51:45 hmm, 1973 was when the lisp machine project started 20:51:59 and lisp in 1958 20:52:11 so 15 years 20:52:54 and scheme? 20:52:56 the 80s? 20:52:57 1975 20:53:14 common lisp? 20:53:25 late 80s I think 20:53:51 its younger? 20:53:54 hmm, 1984, so I'm off 20:54:28 teurastaja: scheme has changed quite a bit since then, but yes 20:54:55 in those 9 years, what dialects were popular? 20:57:45 I'm not really big on the history of that era 20:58:13 popular lisp dialects then: interlisp, lisp machine lisp, maclisp, flavors 20:58:18 surely others too 20:58:49 zeta lisp, T? 20:59:48 virl [~virl__@85-127-156-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 21:00:05 zeta yes, I don't know if T was ever popular 21:00:17 but scheme also should be on that list 21:01:48 hmm, I'm surprised pjb never butted in with http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html :) 21:02:01 rostayob [~rostayob@02d99acf.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 21:02:37 teurastaja: see that link for an example of the similarity between lisp 1 and CL 21:05:45 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:13 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:24:14 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:38 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:33 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.158.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:33 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 21:43:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:47:42 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 21:53:54 -!- teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:35 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:34 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:43 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:56 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #scheme 22:07:40 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-233-21.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12:43 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:21 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 22:19:32 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:25:51 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:25 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 22:33:42 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:24 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-163-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:50 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-128-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 22:36:38 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:36:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:03 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #scheme 22:44:04 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:50:12 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has joined #scheme 22:54:14 -!- ijp [~user@host86-179-78-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:40 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-128-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:11 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-148-213.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 22:57:17 -!- exobit [~user@pool-98-116-156-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:55 ijp [~user@host86-179-78-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:00:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:11:13 -!- ijp [~user@host86-179-78-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:19 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:19:08 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:19:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:44 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-247.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:22:00 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:36:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.249] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:37:55 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:46:58 ijp [~user@host86-179-78-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme