00:00:47 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:05:08 anyone else notice that wikipedia just chose lua over javascript for its new templating language? 00:05:15 *hypnocat* wonders what it would take to get scheme used by some major project like that.. 00:05:27 the last major project i can think of that used scheme was gimp 00:05:37 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:14 o.o 00:06:31 There was a gaming company that used scheme... gah.. *goes digging* 00:06:35 Sawfish 00:06:41 (I run it) 00:07:02 lua's really eating scheme's lunch here.. lua's mainly known for 2 things: its use in games, and its being a very small, lightweight language 00:07:18 the latter is precisely the strength of many schemes 00:07:44 I believe the company I'm thinking of, is the one who made the uncharted series 00:08:01 CampinSam: There was NaughtyBoy that used their own Lisp (not much of a Scheme, AFAIR). 00:08:07 of course, lua's seen by many as a "hot new language", while to them scheme probably seems "old and dated" 00:08:18 and, of course, lua has a much more familiar syntax for most programmers 00:08:21 CampinSam: But they moved on to C++ later on for lack of manpower. 00:08:23 tuubow [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:08:33 CampinSam: When changing the platform to PS3. 00:08:47 Ah.. 00:08:49 I see. 00:09:02 Well thank's for correcting me then ^.^ 00:09:18 not entirely, ISTR a talk they did the other year about using racket 00:09:39 because of its familiarity, most programmers probably feel like they don't have to learn much of anything new when they pick up lua.. and can get going with it in a few hours 00:09:51 http://cufp.org/conference/sessions/2011/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development 00:09:52 http://tinyurl.com/6ac6sxp 00:10:08 which is clearly not the case for scheme.. unles you're already familiar with a similar language, which most programmers probably aren't 00:11:17 not quite scheme, but close 00:11:20 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:21:50 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:04 http://julien.danjou.info/blog/2011/why-not-lua 00:22:25 i like lua. it's not the be-all and end-all, though. 00:27:34 yeah, i have problems with lua 00:27:43 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:51 there are some nice things about it.. it being small and relatively simple at the core is nice 00:28:13 but its major drawback, imo, is lack of libraries 00:28:26 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:28:26 that problem is much, much worse in lua than in most modern schemes 00:28:53 in lua you pretty much either have to write your own solution from scratch, or use some hack posted on the lua wiki 00:29:13 anyway.. that was the state of lua when i tried it a couple of years ago.. maybe it's gotten better now 00:30:33 but i do think it definitely will get better now, with the influx of new users that wikipedia's use of lua will bring 00:30:57 i don't like to be negative about languages. there's lots of good things to do in many spaces. if you care about scheme, hack in scheme. 00:31:14 i do, and i do :) 00:31:18 :-) 00:31:51 then you have to have some amount of faith that it's sufficient, i think, in order to generate the future in which hacking in scheme is ok :) 00:32:10 in the senses of implementation quality, library availability, etc 00:32:21 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:24 yeah, i have no fear that scheme will die or cease improving 00:32:42 obviously, it has its fans, and continues to gain new fans and users over time 00:32:50 -!- mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:33:21 but it's a little frustrating and sad not to see it not win over more programmers, imo 00:33:48 many of them don't even know what they're missing.. :( 00:34:02 yeah, but i really think that's a matter of perspective 00:34:40 we can't really push scheme forward effectively by being sad, disappointed, or bitter 00:34:52 not that i am saying that you are any of those 00:35:26 the best way to help scheme -- if it is a cause -- is to be positive about it, to hack in it, and to write about it 00:35:29 imo anyway 00:36:11 and it's ok to recognize good things that other languages do, like lua, and to learn from them 00:36:51 imo, it's important to be realistic about the benefits and drawbacks of every language 00:37:10 indeed 00:37:55 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:41:08 also, look at how much milage python and ruby got out of bashing perl ;) 00:41:13 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:42:45 meh. i hack on webkit sometimes, and that uses perl, python, php, shell, and ruby in their build scripts ;-) 00:44:39 use all the things! 00:45:06 use all the things! 00:45:29 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:53 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:23 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 00:48:52 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:52:08 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:14 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-175-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:01 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-202-static.acedsl.com] has joined #scheme 01:00:34 klutometis: EOM, eh? Back in the Kuro5hin/Slashdot days, it was known as [NT] or [nt], as in "no text". 01:02:13 albert-sicp [~albert-si@pool-98-112-96-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:03:44 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 01:06:07 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:06:20 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:06:36 wingo++ 01:06:45 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:47 (Just finished reading scrollback.) 01:06:59 (Now, onto #guile scrollback...346 messages! :-O) 01:12:17 -!- albert-sicp [~albert-si@pool-98-112-96-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:13:16 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:27:02 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 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#scheme 15:10:54 -!- nwr [c3d41db7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.212.29.183] has left #scheme 15:11:05 elly: stack traces should be restored 15:11:09 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #scheme 15:11:24 foof`: woo! :D 15:11:42 ski: Roooughly similar idea, except for being totally unrelatedly different :) 15:12:01 ski: Longstoryshort: the frontend is a "small" dumb client, has no knowledge of IRC. All IRC state is stored purely on the backend. 15:12:09 it still only tracks line numbers for the nearest lambda - I'll add a compile-time option to track more precisely soon 15:12:11 Frontend is a little bit like an X11 server in some ways.. 15:12:31 foof`: cool :) 15:16:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:20:51 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:23:59 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:18 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 15:34:09 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:34:10 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:34:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:37:09 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-182-240-4.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:47 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@tmo-111-55.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:40:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:00 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:41:01 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:41:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:43:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:43:55 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:46:47 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-169-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:53:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:53:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:54:16 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 16:01:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 16:03:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:59 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #scheme 16:05:39 axelmathias [~aksel@cm-84.215.135.160.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 16:05:56 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:05:56 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:05:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:07:19 -!- dous_ [~dous@cm171.sigma67.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:55 hi, can someone help me with a programming question (scheme/racket) 16:08:03 ? 16:09:21 No. Nobody can answer unasked questions. 16:09:22 the custom on IRC is that you state your real question, then wait for anyone who can answer to notice your question 16:10:33 i see. so i can paste code right in here without anyone kicking me out? many years since i've been on irc 16:10:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:41 axelmathias: Use lisppaste. 16:10:46 http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme 16:10:55 cky: thx 16:11:00 mister_m [~mattosaur@2620:0:2250:2104:223:5aff:fe7e:cc97] has joined #scheme 16:11:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 16:11:11 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:11:11 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:11:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:11:19 But since it has difficulties with the irc bridge, once you'ev pasted, go to http://paste.lisp.org/ and click on your paste to get the url and copy and paste it here yourself. 16:11:39 What pjb said. 16:16:25 -!- cswords [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:17:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:04 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:18:04 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:18:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:19:06 cky: I don't get to see the paste myself? But others get the announcement? 16:19:59 No, nobody get the annoucement. Go to http://paste.lisp.org and find your paste amongst the firsts. And copy and paste the url here. 16:20:47 So it says that days-between-months is undefined. Why don't you define it? 16:21:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127460 16:22:20 No change. 16:23:27 pjb: it's defined 16:23:52 No. It's written right here: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: # on ;; (days-between-months ... ) 16:24:45 axelmathias: it's not enough to write things in files, you have to load those files in the scheme image too. Without error. 16:25:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127461 16:25:53 Instead of multiplying the pastes, you can annotate the same paste. 16:26:23 ok. sorry. that's the definition. Unless you refer to definition as something else 16:26:24 Once you define it, what changes for the first expression? 16:26:34 No, you need to load that definition in your scheme image. 16:26:42 nevermind. 16:26:44 before evaluating the first expression. 16:26:47 -!- axelmathias [~aksel@cm-84.215.135.160.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:26:50 ? 16:26:55 what was that? 16:27:23 C-Keen: check the three pastes 16:27:25 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:41 scheme in general has no notion of an "image" like common lisps have 16:28:01 When you work with a REPL, it has. Let's define image = (interaction-environment). 16:28:01 pjb: yeah he seems to be confused 16:28:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28:52 pjb: I know what you mean and I do think that students probably won't because that word won't show up in their textbooks 16:29:09 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:29:25 -!- c0w [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:29:28 Well, I never saw any term to refer to that in scheme textbooks 16:30:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:30:16 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-202.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:30:27 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 16:30:39 pjb: usually the concept of environment is used without specifying how that is kept or built 16:30:45 ok. 16:32:22 mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:27 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-229.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:33:28 pjb: I also doubt that in *this* case it would have helped clear up the confusion :) 16:33:34 *not 16:34:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:43 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:00 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 16:41:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:42:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:42:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:50:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:51:54 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:57:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:09 eno 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quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:25 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 19:03:21 choas [~lars@p4FDC5F63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:51 LeoNerd: Took some time, but I finally figured it out! :D 19:11:09 Whowhatwhere? 19:11:27 LeoNerd: Rollbars in cars. 19:11:34 Lern2scrollback. 19:11:36 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:36 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:11:36 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 19:11:37 Ahh 19:12:20 kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.140.37] has joined #scheme 19:15:44 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:16:24 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1197-135.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:17:12 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 19:17:17 Yup, those Rollbars! 19:17:37 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:36 I have not had so much fun in a long time. 19:21:20 -!- mister_m [~mattosaur@2620:0:2250:2104:223:5aff:fe7e:cc97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:24 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:22 Glad to hear it. :-) 19:26:51 -!- fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:59 fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has joined #scheme 19:29:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:48 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:48 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 19:34:46 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.65.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:36:28 -!- eno 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