00:01:17 -!- GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@33.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:45 well the rest of racket is basically a superset of scheme 00:02:01 there are a few incompatabilities here and there, like lists being immutable by default, but mostly its a scheme 00:04:50 hypnocat, it's a descendant of scheme 00:05:10 how schemish are the additions? 00:05:16 many scheme programs will work as racket programs 00:05:28 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:42 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:46 hypnocat, we think they're good additions 00:09:11 you can decide if they're schemish enough 00:09:53 some other languages, like clojure, which try to "improve" on lisp do so by changing the syntax to be more algol-like 00:10:09 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:10:09 hypnocat, the lexical syntax is more like scheme than clojure is 00:10:21 great 00:11:01 clojure's syntax isn't really more algol-like, it just has a few more delimiters 00:11:58 *hypnocat* nods 00:12:02 i'm not very familiar with clojure 00:12:12 that's just what it seemed like to me from a cursory glance at some of the source 00:12:43 well there's a few places in clojure in which redundant parentheses are removed 00:12:46 like in let 00:12:55 i wouldn't call that algol-like though 00:13:45 I don't see any parenthesis redundancy in let-bindings. But might be missing something. 00:14:27 in (let ((a 0) (b 1)) ...), you can't have any more than two elements within the let-bindings 00:15:17 thus (let (a 0 b 1) ...) introduces no ambiguities 00:15:24 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:16:07 doing this change does make macro writing slightly more difficult, but not by much 00:16:18 I was just thinking about that. 00:17:17 it introduces no ambiguity for the computer 00:17:27 but what's going on is much clearer to the reader 00:17:30 human reader, i mean 00:17:43 i would say that's a matter of personal preference 00:17:51 as he doesn't have to mentally work out where the divisions should be 00:17:59 unless, of course, the bindings are each on separate lines 00:18:03 i usually write all my bindings on separate lines 00:18:25 still, that could be a problem if one of the bindings winds up taking more than one line 00:18:45 in practice i haven't found this to ever be a problem 00:18:47 also, it's harder to navigate from one binding to the next without parenthesis 00:18:58 mostly because the indentation also helps disambiguate 00:19:30 navigation takes two invocations of C-M-f or C-M-b instead of one... 00:21:24 i still think the parenthesis makes the bindings clearer 00:21:43 let's take an example of a bunch of bindings instead of just 2 00:22:21 (let (a b c d e f g h i j) 00:22:23 vs 00:22:27 (let ((a b) (c d) (e f) (g h) (i j)) 00:22:42 that's a pretty contrived example 00:22:45 what's bound to what is much clearer in the 2nd, example, imo 00:22:59 most initialization forms are long enough to merit a line break 00:23:32 also most initialization forms don't consist of just a single variable reference 00:26:59 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 00:27:15 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:35 even so, i think this pushes clojure closer to a python-like model, where indentation becomes significant 00:27:42 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:58 of course, even in scheme, proper indentation often helps to understand code 00:28:34 the key difference is that you're free to use whatever indentation you want to make things clear 00:28:43 but at least it's easy to reconstruct the proper indentation given scheme's parenthetical syntax 00:28:51 whereas in python you have to use a certain sort of indentation 00:28:51 that becomes harder when the parenthesis are missing 00:28:53 you are free to make a wide range of mistakes 00:28:58 you're forced to count the elements and such 00:29:02 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:12 well that's the editors job really 00:29:26 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:29:27 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 00:29:28 actually you don't even have to do that 00:33:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:00 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:34:42 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:36:09 there are editor and ide features to make working with algol-like syntax easier too 00:36:16 i know it's perfectly possible to do so 00:36:20 just not something i prefer 00:36:27 i like the parenthesis 00:37:06 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:06 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 00:43:11 glompst [mike@149-169-208-8.nat.asu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:54:14 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:34 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:56 _schulte_ 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joined #scheme 02:49:05 zwolfe [~zach@c-71-58-214-34.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:49:32 hello, how do I force a fraction to be displayed as a decimal value? 02:50:16 zwolfe: try exact->inexact 02:50:36 thank you :) 02:51:50 you're welcome 02:53:11 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:47 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@host26-235-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:33 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:09 zwolfe: If your Scheme implementation has Common Lisp's format, you can just use that: 03:03:11 scheme@(guile-user)> (format #f "~,5f" 1/3) 03:03:13 $2 = "0.33333" 03:03:25 Obviously, you can change the 5 to whatever you want. 03:11:45 cky: thanks 03:12:03 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] 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implementations are you using? 09:00:33 chicken.. hkBst, I am not sure if the slowness was caused by continuations anymore... nevermind my question 09:00:51 I asked that because I had some problems I thought were caused by continuations, and because I heard they make programs slow. 09:09:04 -!- phao [phao@177.115.32.97] has left #scheme 09:11:30 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 09:14:14 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:11 -!- Intensity [6zNDP14Gi1@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:40:48 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:51:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:52:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:35 Intensity [50OWyeK641@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 10:23:06 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@176.222.173.118] has joined #scheme 10:23:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:23:06 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:23:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.118] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 10:25:46 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 10:27:47 GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@33.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 10:36:44 -!- Intensity [50OWyeK641@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:34 hi! so, I'm still looking for the best scheme for my task, because I'm not sure chibi is mature enough. what I need is an easy to compile and lightweight scheme that has an interpreter. I'm planning to use it as a loader on an embedded device to download and run from the internet the actual program... 10:40:57 I tried to look for a scheme implementation comparison table, but couldn't find one 10:46:31 I am not aware of any 10:47:03 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations is a pretty large list but I am not sure how up-to-date it is 10:48:11 snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 10:49:54 masm [~masm@2.80.154.1] has joined #scheme 10:51:50 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.154.1] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:37 -!- snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56:40 masm [~masm@2.80.154.1] has joined #scheme 11:00:36 Intensity [bgdh4rG9xt@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 11:01:14 -!- levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:09:31 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:10 SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 11:11:51 snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 11:15:07 attila_lendvai: you might find http://practical-scheme.net/wiliki/schemexref.cgi useful 11:15:27 don't know how up to date it is 11:15:53 it seems to miss chibi, so presumably not very 11:17:35 Goood morning Schemers... What are the limits of allowable behaviour, when builtin functions are invoked with the "wrong" types of arguments? 11:18:00 As a quirk of my implementation, the various string functions will read a char just fine, treating it as a 1-character string. 11:18:14 E.g. char=? and string=? are in fact identical 11:18:29 -!- rasactive [~onewland@c-24-4-206-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:44 most of the time that's not specified 11:19:03 but it will hide programming errors if you quietly do something 11:19:05 In particular, (equal? "a" #\a) => #f but (string=? "a" #\a) => #t 11:19:24 rasactive [~onewland@c-24-4-206-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:21:06 LeoNerd: well string=? is defined as returning true if two *strings* are given 11:21:24 and they contain the same characters in the same positions 11:21:27 Yes. it works fine for two string arguments... 11:21:44 But it also happens to have some defined behavior in my implementation, when given characters 11:22:14 maybe the spec should have said "only if" ;) 11:22:39 Well, R5RS at least is a lot like C, in that it doesn't really explain what happens when you step outside the spec... I find that OK 11:23:07 So my interpretation is that R5 doesn't care, so anything seems reasonable. 11:24:49 hm, r7rs does specify it as (string=? char_1 char_2 char_3 ...) which does not help... but the text is a bit clearer imho: Returns #t if all the strings are the same length and contain 11:24:53 exactly the same characters in the same positions, other- 11:24:57 wise returns #f. 11:25:44 But that's subtly different to => Returns #t if /all the arguments are strings/ and ... 11:26:14 it is 11:26:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:29:23 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 11:30:21 amoe, C-Keen: thanks! 11:31:01 LeoNerd: chicken, racket and chibi all raise a type error 11:39:04 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:27 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 11:44:54 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 12:03:25 attila_lendvai: what are the difficulties you have encountered so far with chibi? 12:04:27 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:31 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 12:22:54 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 12:27:09 joast [~rick@76.178.187.164] has joined #scheme 12:28:24 -!- gnuvince_ [~vince@ip-96-43-229-40.dsl.netrevolution.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:17 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:51:17 elly: chibi does produce stack traces 12:51:59 attila_lendvai: chibi is indeed young, but "not sure it's mature enough" isn't too helpful - what problems have you actually encountered? 13:00:28 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 13:05:11 Was a consensus reached yet? Am I allowed not to error on mixing chars and strings? 13:06:40 elly: I take that back, I broke stack traces a while back. 13:09:09 sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 13:13:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:41 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 13:21:24 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-169-134-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x___x] 13:23:49 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:26:35 i recall someone wanted a PDF version of SICP, there is one here: http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ 13:26:56 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:51 Oooh 13:34:53 I wanted one. I didn't mention it, but yes that would be useful. I do a lot of Schemeing on the underground trains lately.. 13:35:31 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:12 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 13:36:33 -!- snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:09 leppie: Hrm.. perhaps I'm being blind, but I can't see it 13:39:18 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:45:43 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:58:25 LeoNerd: found it yet? 13:58:25 euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:59:13 Ohyes.. I see, under "Resources" 13:59:18 Burried in the body text 13:59:23 Thanks :) 14:07:24 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:10:27 -!- euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:09 euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:12:43 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-158-230.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:26:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:34:04 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 14:35:04 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:26 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:13 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:43:18 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:25 chri2008 [~christian@174.132-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #scheme 14:43:29 chri2008_ [~christian@174.132-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #scheme 14:45:07 -!- euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:23 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:46 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:08:23 bytbox [~s@96.26.105.154] has joined #scheme 15:08:34 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-3-121.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 15:11:00 -!- glompst [mike@149-169-208-8.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:13 foof: it's just an impression... but my other impression is that it's quite well written (after fixing the cross-compiling gcc, it pretty much compiles out of the box on the embedded device). 15:20:57 foof: but if you want something specific, the byte-code situation... I was hoping to compile some bytecode, and send it to the device. but I guess I can stick to text representation... 15:27:59 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:31 copumpkin [~copumpkin@17.45.135.36] has joined #scheme 15:31:33 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@17.45.135.36] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:33 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:33:54 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 15:37:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:08 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 15:40:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:46 -!- confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 15:42:25 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:49:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:52:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120111092507]] 15:53:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:41 snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 15:55:46 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-choefwiplcnacque] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:00:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:02:03 rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1194-37.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 16:03:15 -!- chri2008_ [~christian@174.132-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:17 chri2008__ [~christian@239.161-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #scheme 16:03:24 -!- chri2008 [~christian@174.132-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:59 -!- snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:00 snizzo_ [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 16:16:01 chri2008 [~christian@239.161-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #scheme 16:16:04 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:17:42 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:41 hoi 16:19:52 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:26:04 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 16:26:04 la la la 16:26:09 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:20 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 16:26:20 la la la 16:30:55 *jcowan* thinks rudybot is not listening 16:30:55 !! 16:32:12 samth [~samth@209.118.182.66] has joined #scheme 16:33:52 He says "la la la" when duncanm joins 16:34:00 rudybot: seen duncanm 16:34:00 *offby1: duncanm was seen quitting in a-chinaman.com seven minutes ago, saying "Client Quit", and then duncanm was seen joining in #scheme seven minutes ago 16:35:03 rudybot: seen cannot be unseen 16:35:03 qu1j0t3: expecting: seen 16:35:24 *offby1* waggles a finger 16:37:38 *qu1j0t3* whistles 16:38:14 offby1: Ah. But does he have his fingers in his ears at the time? 16:38:57 you know, I ever checked. 16:38:59 never 16:39:18 (seriously, no; he's simply imitating duncanm, who, back when he actually spoke, would often greet the channel with "la la la") 16:39:29 *offby1* <-- IRC historian 16:39:41 I remembered those days. 16:39:49 How times have changed. 16:39:54 *offby1* sighs wistfully 16:40:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 16:41:10 !! 16:41:28 wait, i look around, and it's just a thicket of beards! grey in colour! wahhh! 16:41:39 Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis <-- what the teenage smartass (okay, me) said to the man on the bus who wept because kids these days don't learn Latin 16:41:39 mine's white 16:41:44 lemme guess, y'all coded Scheme before it was uncool, right? 16:41:58 Scheme has always been uncool, even when it was cool. 16:42:08 jcowan: that was my attempted witticism 16:42:10 *fds* has no beard. 16:42:16 *qu1j0t3* needs to shave. 16:42:18 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:42:19 why, I told Sussman and Steele to quit wasting time weaving baskets, and study the great McCarthy 16:42:28 *jcowan* has had a bheard for more than 30 yhears 16:42:28 offby1: LOL!!!! 1 internets sir 16:43:22 McC gets no luv. http://www.quora.com/History-of-Computing/Who-has-the-greatest-beard-in-computer-science/answer/Toby-Thain 16:43:22 http://tinyurl.com/7sfx66m 16:43:34 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1194-37.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:44:39 *offby1* gives a low whistle 16:44:44 That's some beard, that beard 22 16:50:30 lol Ryan Dahl looks like he should be starring in some Law & Order series ;p 16:50:52 oops 16:51:03 Larry Ellison 16:51:26 arggh I hate caption at the top... who ever decided that was a good idea? 16:51:36 leppie: he practically does. Oracle's never out of a courtroom ;-) 16:51:48 qu1j0t3: HAHAHA! 16:52:04 -!- samth [~samth@209.118.182.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:39 we'll I got a beard too now, but will probably go away this weekend (when I can afford the gas for the chainsaw) 16:52:49 leppie: haha 16:52:56 leppie: i.. prefer not to wait that long. :/ 16:53:22 nah, I can go up to 3 weeks without shaving, normally shave once every 2 weeks ;p 16:54:56 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 16:55:09 agspathis [~user@150.140.232.177] has joined #scheme 16:57:31 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:32 lolcow [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:58:02 grrr lame 'superoverclocked' video card... 16:59:05 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 17:00:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:05:31 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 17:05:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 17:09:55 euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:15:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 17:28:29 -!- euccastro [~es@102.Red-79-158-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:14 euccastro [~es@139.Red-83-40-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:10 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrzbycwgmokhoupk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:21 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:47:56 -!- snizzo_ [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:09 -!- euccastro [~es@139.Red-83-40-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnpxxtzuwlclwxuc] has joined #scheme 17:55:18 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:55:57 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 17:56:23 offby1: Too bad no one can approach this virtuosity: ; it's true, though, that that cat represents a certain Teutonic specialization. 17:56:50 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:59:41 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:00 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:08:05 snizzo [~quassel@host40-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:10:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 18:13:16 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:05 rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1193-179.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 18:27:29 samth [~samth@nat/yahoo/x-xjyndycwoaubijpv] has joined #scheme 18:38:14 ehiggs [~ehiggs@188-220-43-22.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:38:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:40:22 -!- ehiggs [~ehiggs@188-220-43-22.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has left #scheme 18:40:54 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 18:41:38 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:54 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71927e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:45:11 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:51:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:52:30 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:56:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 19:12:04 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 19:15:04 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:04 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:13 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 19:20:29 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:22:29 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host40-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:40 Has anyone ever deployed Kawa, JScheme, SISC, &c. on Heroku? 19:30:09 Of all those, only JScheme specifically documents usage with Jetty (); but it should (I imagine) be possible with any of them. 19:30:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:31 And thence . . .; oh, but you need to use Maven. Jesus. 19:33:16 jaba jeebas 19:33:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:30 Writing software in the twenty-teens involves towering so many abstractions upon abstractions; I've clung to e.g. build-tool transparency for a long time. But maybe it's finally time to stare into the abyss. 19:35:57 don't do it! 19:36:10 it cannot be unseen 19:37:42 klutometis: just as the mayans predicted 19:37:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:40:27 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:41:04 http://pastie.org/3215130 <== it appears my 'letrec' definition is a lot smaller/simpler than the one given in R5RS... and yet appears to work. Can anyone see a problem with it? 19:41:15 (other than my hideous double-nested begins ;) ) 19:41:15 Anyway: if I can successfully deploy Scheme on Heroku, I'll report back. 19:41:59 Please do. 19:42:08 leppie: We've had CPAN for a couple decades now, haven't we? Maybe it's not so bad. CPAN just seems different from Maven and the like, though; not sure why. And, of course, we have no Scheme equivalent (I thought what's-his-face-the-Chez-dude was supposed to address that). 19:42:40 -!- chri2008__ [~christian@239.161-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:42:40 -!- chri2008 [~christian@239.161-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:42:56 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:57 klutometis: CPAN is a lot more than Maven. CPAN is a module collection, an install tool, an author upload tool, a smoketest result collector/aggregator, a community, an idea,... 19:43:08 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:43:16 klutometis: the newest heroku stack is such that you could conceivably use any scheme you want without being tied to the JVM 19:43:17 A documentation web frontend, 19:44:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:58 jcowan: Ok; just started working at a shop peopled almost entirely by ex-Googlers, by the way. Their fetish for the latest-and-greatest underscores for me how much work Scheme would have to do to be accepted 'round these parts. It's maddening. 19:45:07 https://github.com/heroku/heroku-buildpack-c 19:45:35 klutometis: even so, you're way closer to that than anything i've worked at. 19:45:40 turbofail: Is that the so-called "Run Anything" stack? Details are scant; looks like you can deploy arbitrary executables. 19:45:45 yeah 19:45:46 klutometis: i mean, they hired a radical like you. 19:46:02 rudybot: (letrec () 42) 19:46:03 cky: your sandbox is ready 19:46:04 cky: ; Value: 42 19:46:05 not just arbitrary executables, you can specify arbitrary compilation processes 19:46:08 klutometis: clearly you're the kind of unhinged maniac that's going to try to inject an atom of FP into the workplace eventually. 19:46:12 klutometis: a parenthetical terrorist. 19:46:12 LeoNerd: ^^-- Your version doesn't work with zero bindings. 19:46:20 LeoNerd: Right; Maven isn't anything without its jar-repos. 19:46:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 19:46:39 so you could have a buildpack that, for example, deploys a recompiled version of chibi scheme every time 19:46:46 LeoNerd: while it will run correctly for most code, it will fail some cases, you need to read the evaluation rules. That implementation looks correct for letrec* however :) 19:46:51 cky: Ooooh.. right. Surely another clause makes it trival though? ((letrec () body body*) (begin body body*)) 19:47:10 leppie: letrec*? Hrm.. that's a new one on me 19:47:13 let and friends should work fine with zero bindings 19:47:17 from R6RS 19:47:21 and R7RS 19:47:23 LeoNerd: letrec* is letrec with left-to-right evaluation. 19:47:32 qu1j0t3: These guys have actually come half-way by adopted e.g. Clojure; it's troubling to me, though, that, even amongst these relatively open-minded devs, Scheme is radical. And it is. Weird. 19:47:40 LeoNerd: Similar to what let* is to let. 19:47:42 klutometis: yes i was about to mention Clojure. 19:47:49 Scheme will always be radical. Radical World Domination. 19:47:58 cky: Ahhhhh. I see.. /me hacks 19:48:19 jcowan: reverse psychology... 19:48:25 but you have a problem them, letrec* is basically used for internal definitions (as you used in that snippet), so you have a chicken/egg scenario there :) 19:48:25 jcowan: Radical in the way that Jedi are radical in the age of the blaster? 19:48:35 klutometis: WOW, my mind was full of jedi imagery after he said that too! 19:48:39 leppie++ 19:48:49 klutometis: something like, "when I die I will be stronger than you can imagine" or something. 19:49:00 LeoNerd: My point is that you should just use ((var val) ...) rather than ((var1 val1) (var2 val2) ...). 19:49:21 cky: Right. 19:50:58 here is some stuff I did for a typed library for IronScheme (basically reimplementing the care macros) - https://ironscheme.svn.codeplex.com/svn/IronScheme/IronScheme.Console/ironscheme/typed/core.sls 19:50:58 http://tinyurl.com/8xapadz 19:51:23 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:51:28 Waitwhat: Why would letrec be called with zero bindings? :) 19:51:37 begin :) 19:51:42 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:51:42 Hmm... 19:51:43 LeoNerd: It often isn't, but you shouldn't stop it. 19:51:48 Fair point I suppose 19:51:59 Well, not quite. Begin in expression context doesn't allow internal definitions, but (let () ...) does. 19:52:20 (let () ...) is the equivalent of { ... } in C 19:52:27 begin is transparent. (let () ...) isn't. 19:52:33 #t 19:52:54 What do you mean by transparent? 19:52:57 begin doesn't create a lexical environment, more's the point 19:53:13 jcowan: splicing I think he means 19:53:24 yes LeoNerd :) 19:53:27 Ah. 19:54:06 What leppie said. 19:54:17 Hrm.. That's a point. I can probably splice out 'begin' sublists in lambda bodies at compile time 19:54:42 LeoNerd: from a compiler point of view, all begins are spliced 19:54:56 Hrm... 19:55:02 snizzo [~quassel@host40-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:55:12 (if #f (begin 1 2 3) (begin 4 5 6)) <== not those 19:55:30 Quite. 19:55:55 R7RS explicitly distinguishes between (begin expression ...) and (begin expression-or-definition ...), which are different beasts and used in different contexts. 19:56:15 The former can be rewritten as lambda expressions (but usually aren't, for efficiency). 19:56:23 Infact I suspect the only time you can splice them out is within lambda or other begins 19:57:04 LeoNerd: There are some boundary cases though, but those would normally be transformed into branches by then 19:57:13 I'm still thinking about massively cheating in my filter/map/etc.. implementations 19:57:17 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:17 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:57:17 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 19:57:30 LeoNerd: cheating in what sense? 19:57:37 One mo, let me write the code 19:57:59 (define map native-map) ? 19:58:21 leppie: Cheating as in implemented at the interpreter level, rather than as Scheme code, I presume. :-P 19:58:29 Nope.. one moment 20:00:10 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:47 *leppie* wonders how long it can take to write map 20:01:23 (define (map fun list) (if (null? list) list (cons (fun (car list)) (map fun (cdr list))))) 20:01:35 Not too long. 20:01:37 That doesn't tail-recurse :) 20:01:53 what LeoNerd said, pjb :) 20:01:54 It doesn't. There's a cons tail call. 20:01:56 The simple tail-recursive one generates a list backwards, that you have to 'reverse' at the end 20:02:42 (derecursive (define (map fun list) (if (null? list) list (cons (fun (car list)) (map fun (cdr 20:02:42 list)))))) 20:03:07 Recursive calls can be removed automatically. 20:03:18 What I want to do is tail-recurse by keeping a pointer at the tail of the list, set-car!/set-cdr!'ing at that pointer to append new elements 20:03:31 When I've finished, my list will already be in the right order, so no reverse step 20:03:34 GOogle for "tconc" 20:04:11 However, that fails badly if the function to be mapped can be resumed unexpectedly from call/cc. 20:04:19 ijp [~user@host86-171-27-136.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:22 It is not a general implementation of map. 20:04:32 Oooh... 20:04:36 An interesting observation 20:04:41 (define (proc list1) (let f ((lst list1)(a '())) (if (null? lst) (reverse! a) (f (cdr lst) (cons (proc (car lst)) a))))) 20:05:07 Yes, that's one of the safe cases for reverse!. 20:06:15 well anywhere you consing something is a potential target for replacement. I wonder if that property could be statically inferred at compilation-time 20:07:08 my optimization ideas for IronScheme are getting a bit expensive lately :( 20:07:49 http://pastie.org/3215245 <== I want to write that yet for some reason it doesn't actually run. :( 20:07:56 It shows the rough shape of the idea though, I hope 20:09:11 whats the point of (define result (list)) ? (besides (list) being '()) 20:09:40 ... doh! 20:09:43 *LeoNerd* rethinks 20:09:43 (let ((result '())) ...) 20:10:13 next problem is that you are not actually allocating any pairs! 20:10:18 Yeaaahhhh 20:10:24 I was getting to that part ;) 20:10:25 that might be a serious flaw 20:10:40 unless you want filter! 20:10:48 It's easy to think that list will always return a pair, but it won't. 20:11:01 jcowan: did r7rs not decide that reverse! was not acceptable there? 20:11:05 *wingo* can't remember 20:11:21 the restriction on multiple returns, you remember 20:11:58 *leppie* still does not fathom that multiple returns with map and friends thing 20:12:10 Wheeee I made my 'terp blow up ;) 20:12:15 t/50expr-listf.t ... Internal error - tried to eval() something that isn't a pair at /home/leo/src/perl/Lispm/blib/lib/Lispm.pm line 121. 20:12:28 without true continuations I guess I will never get that on IronSCheme either 20:13:09 It's easier to see with vector-map. 20:13:26 The obvious approach to vector-map is to allocate a vector and put the new values into it one by one. 20:14:03 But that fails badly if the procedure being mapped captures a continuation and that captured continuation is reinvoked: you end up getting the same vecdtor every time, and previous holders of the vector no longer have what they thought they had. 20:14:22 http://pastie.org/3215274 <== it are work1 20:14:26 right :) 20:14:39 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:14:53 I thought it through ages ago and decided that the final return had to be (cdr result) yet I couldn't remember why offhand 20:15:13 Allocate an initial list that starts with a dummy symbol, which we never return anyway 20:15:25 LeoNerd: calling list is normally more expensive than calling a fixed arity procedure like cons 20:15:31 Hmm 20:15:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:15:41 (cons 'dummy '()) ? 20:16:00 and (list x) 20:16:10 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71927e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:20 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1193-179.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:16:27 OK.. fixed. 20:16:39 my feeling is map should be as fast as possible, heavily used proc in one's scheme environment 20:16:46 I think in my implementation (list x) would actually be quicker ;) 20:16:51 Eh.. benchmarks 20:16:57 LeoNerd: possible :) 20:17:10 *LeoNerd* renames this as filter-by-acc and benchmarks the two 20:17:14 In CL, both can compile to the same inlined code... 20:19:59 hmmm: that is not something I directly optimize, perhaps I should. I will gain NANOSECONDS! 20:20:34 *leppie* suspects the .NET JIT already does a good job of inlining small procedures 20:20:57 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:00 Typo of the day: (reverse reslut) 20:22:38 And the result is.... wow. I am surprised. :( the tailcall-cons-and-reverse method is actually 28% faster than my set-cdr! method. :( 20:22:48 hehe 20:23:07 Based on (length (filter even? (itoa 1000))) 20:23:42 I am actually upset :( 20:23:53 your are probably needlessly calling some mutators 20:23:55 itoa for iota is good 20:24:14 *jcowan* has been typing retrun and reutnr for 30+ years 20:24:49 'flase' is my biggest issue 20:25:20 Wow and now I blew up perl's profiler... 20:25:57 jcowan: I hope you havev an emacs hook to help you. 20:26:19 I might, if I used emacs. I'm an "ex" troglodyte, though. 20:26:56 This may be a sign I should stop implementing Scheme in Perl, and head to the pub instead. Goodnight all :) 20:27:28 LeoNerd: http://xacc.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/time-to-stop.png 20:27:48 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:27:57 leppie: hehe.. quite. :) 20:29:08 *leppie* goes to sleep too 20:29:11 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:12 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:30 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-210-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:31:51 LeoNerd: good drinkin 20:40:11 turbofail: Any idea how one would create buildpacks for e.g. Scheme? Oh, of course: you don't. You compile first to C. I wonder what you're supposed to do with e.g. libchicken.so, though. 20:48:31 see https://github.com/technomancy/heroku-buildpack-emacs 20:49:08 that compiles an entire build of emacs and runs whatever elisp is desired 20:49:29 there's no reason the scheme runtime would have to be compiled every time, though 20:50:05 gremmachook [u1735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuznmhsmrbbjoity] has joined #scheme 20:50:05 really it just needs to get an executable and its libraries in the right place 20:50:25 none of this really requires compiling to C 20:50:38 -!- gremmachook [u1735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuznmhsmrbbjoity] has left #scheme 20:51:49 er i guess it doesn't compile emacs every time 20:52:59 but anyway if your scheme run time can be made to not depend on hardcoded paths, it should be fine 20:58:35 Blkt [~user@82.84.176.4] has joined #scheme 21:02:00 turbofail: Holy shit, that's fantastic. 21:02:06 *klutometis* adds it to ~/TODO.org. 21:02:25 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:25 Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:04 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.84] has joined #scheme 21:12:40 -!- Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:10 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:22:16 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:18 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:44:39 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-3-121.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:47:27 syntax-case question, if anyone is around that knows 21:47:38 (with-syntax ((foo 3)) 21:47:48 #'(with-syntax ((foo 4)) #'foo)) 21:48:02 how can i get the second "foo" to not substitute? 21:48:09 i thought that was what (... X) was for 21:48:17 but perhaps i misunderstand 21:48:38 i.e. currently this yields the equivalent of #'(with-syntax ((3 4)) #'foo) 21:48:44 which is not what i want 21:48:50 (quote-syntax) ? 21:49:24 sounds useful, i'll look it up 21:51:55 how is that different from (syntax) ? simply that it doesn't get substituted? 21:52:21 i guess i need to search for more use cases 21:53:16 levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:09 -!- levi` is now known as levi 21:55:38 actually that won't work, you will have to bind a new variable to 'foo and use that instead 21:55:57 (with-syntax ([foo 3] [bar #'foo]) ... #'bar) 21:57:47 is the #'foo in bar scoped to the foo that gets bound to 3? 21:58:11 i guess so 21:58:30 never made use of the nested aspect of a sequence of with-syntax clauses 21:59:01 or not 21:59:21 indeed, the version i have does a parallel binding 21:59:47 -!- agspathis [~user@150.140.232.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:03 jonrafkind: sorry to bother you, but do you have any other ideas? i don't think that #'foo example gets the scoping right 22:11:10 though it's hard to tell i guess 22:11:17 maybe it does work. 22:11:35 ah, you're probably right 22:11:44 *wingo* shuts up now :) 22:12:10 is there a reason you use 'foo' twice there? they seem to be unrelated 22:12:48 you're going to laugh 22:13:01 have you heard about the local-eval thread that's raging on guile-devel? 22:13:10 not a chance 22:13:20 someone came up with a neat trick to implement local-eval using syntax-case with a couple extensions 22:13:40 wingo: sorry for the offtopic, but are you possibly related to wingolog.org? 22:13:45 it seems halfway sensible in the end 22:13:57 whitequark: that's me! don't tell the cops! 22:14:30 wingo: thanks for the fine articles, then! I've got quite a lot of inspiration there :D 22:14:33 and anyway the thing is we need to capture pattern variables, and then re-instate them (with the same marks, etc) 22:14:42 whitequark: thanks for the kind words :) 22:16:17 so there is a context in which we are capturing the pattern variables, creating a lambda that does a with-syntax to re-instate them 22:16:23 hence the need for the same names. 22:16:34 deep syntax-case terrorism, there. 22:22:41 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:24:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:24:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:28:11 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:38 -!- ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:31:24 it's very interesting 22:31:32 with `let' you can override variables 22:31:45 (let ((x 1)) (let ((x 2)) x)) -- no problem 22:31:56 but it seems with pattern variables, it's difficult to shadow their bindings 22:32:37 where's eli when you need him ;-) 22:41:39 wingo, it's easy to shadow pattern variables 22:42:04 rudybot, eval (with-syntax ([x #'1]) (let ([x 2]) x)) 22:42:04 samth: ; Value: 2 22:42:41 i suppose that is indeed right. just not within syntax forms, i guess, which makes sense 22:42:54 *wingo* having one of those classic embarassing macro moments 22:43:22 What, someone took a close-up shot of you in an inconvenient place? ;-) 22:43:34 (Sorry, had to pun on "macro" given half a chance. ;-)) 22:53:48 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: milo time] 23:01:57 ski [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 23:02:39 wingo, what wasn't working? 23:09:38 jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:16:26 confab [~win7@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme 23:16:38 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:19:27 samth: i think i need to collect my thoughts a little more before asking again 23:19:38 it will be a neat hack when it's finished tho! 23:22:24 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:26:57 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:29:11 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host40-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:01 X-Scale [email@89.180.129.180] has joined #scheme 23:31:15 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest91938 23:32:50 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 23:36:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:17 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-158-230.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:43:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:44:59 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:46:05 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:26 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:06 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme