00:03:24 platinuum [~platinuum@S0106602ad06b80ad.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:47 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-32-106-187.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:17 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:05:17 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 00:07:14 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-0-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:13:27 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 00:13:54 -!- zzach [~zzach@dslb-094-221-125-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:08 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:19:46 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 00:20:37 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-131-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:23:04 offby1` [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 00:23:17 -!- offby1` [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:23:17 offby1` [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 00:27:37 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 00:28:33 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:28:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:28:46 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:30:55 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:21 -!- GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@33.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 00:33:42 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:38:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:38:54 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.138.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:47:18 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:51:49 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:44 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbec36f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:12:53 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76856e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 01:16:55 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has joined #scheme 01:22:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:04 -!- euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:56 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:47:52 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:48:39 X-Scale` [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has joined #scheme 01:54:52 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.100.166] has quit [Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack] 02:06:39 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-065-013-204-170.sip.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:07:28 Daemmerung [~goetter@63.142.200.228] has joined #scheme 02:18:11 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-227-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:34 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 02:22:40 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:03 stunsg [~dous@210.24.42.190] has joined #scheme 02:24:06 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 02:25:17 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:27:05 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:49 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 02:27:55 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@63.142.200.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 02:28:35 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:56 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:49:31 how do you share structure with reader syntax? 02:49:37 i found no examples 02:49:56 (#1=(a b c) #1#) 02:50:14 isnt that circular? 02:50:18 Not in this case. 02:50:30 Here is a circular one: (a b c . #1=(d e f . #1#)) 02:50:49 Or: #1=(#1# . #1#) 02:51:00 how would i create a shared array? 02:52:04 Or: #1=[#1# #1# #1#] 02:52:49 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:53:04 could you show me a 9x9 array? 02:53:55 teurastaja: scheme (r5rs) doesn't have multidimensionnal arrays, only vectoro. 02:53:58 vectors. 02:54:29 So you will have to implement arrays with vectors. You can define a 9x9 array as a 81 vector, oor as a 9 vector of 9 vectors. 02:54:30 cant you create them with boxes and reader syntax? 02:54:37 Yes. 02:54:44 hkuieagle [~hkuieagle@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has joined #scheme 02:54:46 how? 02:54:59 But since it'd reveal the low level implementation detail, you don't want to do that. 02:55:37 how am i supposed to make arrays? 02:55:58 If you choose to implement n*m*...*z arrays as vectors of (* n m ... z) elements, you would just write [a b c ...]. 02:56:40 teurastaja: however you want. Implement them yourself. 02:56:53 isnt [] like()? 02:56:58 teurastaja: scheme is a pedagogical programming language: it has a lot of holes so that students can fill them and learn something. 02:57:42 thats what im trying to do 02:58:07 teurastaja: Well, I might have been wrong, it seems #(...) is the syntax for literal vectors. 02:58:07 -!- hkuieagle [~hkuieagle@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has left #scheme 02:59:02 what would a 9x9 array look like? 02:59:13 teurastaja: let's try a 3x3 array first. 02:59:32 In CL, you'd write: #2A((a b c) (d e f) (g h i)) 02:59:45 You could implement it as a 9-vector: #(a b c d e f g h i) 03:00:11 Now to implement (aref a i j) you can use (vector-ref (array-data a) (+ (* i 3) j)) 03:00:35 You can also find a general formula for more indices, higher dimensions. 03:01:26 An alternative representation is #(#(a b c) #(d e f) #(g h i)). It's more complex a data structure, but you can implement (aref a i j) as (vector-ref (vector-ref (array-data a) i) j) 03:01:53 and you can easily extract columns, since they're independent objects in the array implementation. 03:02:22 You can also use more sophisticated representations, for example if you have a lot of hollow matrices. 03:03:41 You can also represent arrays with functions: 03:04:35 (lambda (i j) (if (and (= i 0) (= j 0)) 'a (lambda ...))) 03:06:02 how to extract both rows and columns? 03:06:27 like array[][5] 03:06:45 There's no simple representation where it's easy for both. You have to loop over the elements. 03:07:08 alright 03:07:21 thx 03:07:30 Well, with the functionnal representation, you can make it lazy and easy enough. 03:08:09 Eg. to transpose a matrix, you can use: (lambda (i j) (matrix j i)). No pain. 03:09:20 how would you represent a sudoku? 03:10:07 abstractly. (make-sudoku) (sudoku-ref i j), etc. 03:10:17 Ie. the implementation has no importance. 03:11:27 youre just confirming what i thought but i thought there was an easier way 03:11:50 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:12:20 sleep with enlighten me thx 03:12:26 You could use a 3x3x3x3 array if that helps logically. 03:12:28 -!- teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [SeaMonkey 2.5/20111214131000]] 03:12:41 Or just a 9x9 array. Or a 81 vector. 03:20:58 phao [phao@177.115.10.213] has joined #scheme 03:21:44 Hi... the book "the little schemer" has this commandment "build functions to collect more than one value at a time"... is this really good advice? because it looks like it goes against modularity 03:21:54 and also, I don't see it being done many places 03:23:47 In the context, it's probably a good advice. Usually, program structure follow data structure. If you have to process two values at the same time, it's logical to have a single procedure to do it. 03:24:55 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:28:22 pjb, it's strange though... I don't see it very much out there (I am THAT experienced though) 03:28:45 phao: check multiple values in r5rs... 03:29:27 I know multiple values. 03:29:51 I just didn't notice that it's pretty much the same thing 03:29:53 until you said 03:30:43 now that you mentioned, each function looks like a "particular" version of call-with-values.. each function is made to accept another function, which process one+ "return values" 03:30:50 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:31:01 I didn't notice this is exactly multiple-values... thx pjb =) 03:32:32 Multiple values are simply the dual of multiple arguments, passed to continuations rather than (non-continuation) procedures. 03:32:54 yes... =) 03:33:12 (Except that there is no way to statically determine how many values a procedure returns unless you are doing whole-program analysis, and not always then.) 03:34:12 ok. 03:34:29 I think that is a (in this case) a down-side of not being statically typed 03:34:49 pjb, jcowan, thx 03:34:53 gonna go now 03:34:56 -!- phao [phao@177.115.10.213] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 03:35:44 Hmm. What statically typed languages return multiple values? I know only of Fortran and Mesa/Cedar. 03:36:03 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:38:10 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxomxqmgidfjscjw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:21 (Of course, you can get the effect of multiple values by passing references.) 03:44:44 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:39 What's that quote: "q: How come lisp doesn't have reference arguments? a: Because C++ can't return multiple values." 03:47:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:48:08 *jcowan* chuckles. 03:50:02 Of course, reference arguments (locatives) are more general than multiple values. 03:50:54 It would be fairly easy to add locatives to Scheme in a portable way if there were low-level locatives for lexical variables. 03:50:59 jcowan: not counting tuples? 03:51:48 What tuples? 03:52:03 "What statically typed languages return multiple values?" 03:52:07 Ah. 03:52:30 Yes, not counting tuples. 03:53:33 Or typed lists, or other explicit data structures. 03:53:39 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:45 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgcnmuvopwwuxtkb] has joined #scheme 03:54:00 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 03:54:23 So a locative is just a four-field record: aggregate, index, getter, setter. 03:55:53 leo2007 [~leo@117.128.173.211] has joined #scheme 04:00:03 But you'd need implementation-dependent stuff to capture a lexical environment frame. 04:01:12 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:14:01 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:14:18 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 04:21:07 is there a lispy DSL to markup texts? 04:21:28 There are a ton of them. 04:23:10 Not really a DSL, more of a data structure, though in Lisps the distinction can be fine. 04:25:16 i need to pump out a CV in a couple hours and i have not even started 04:25:55 i'm trying to find a super compact latex template but all i can find are absurdly long and complicated ones 04:26:31 Are you searching for "resume" as well as "CV"? 04:27:52 mm should try 04:30:21 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:35:17 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:44:02 bfig: You could use Scribble. It outputs latex or HTML. 04:44:25 mm right now i'm set on latex, it's too late :p 04:44:40 but i'll check it out as soon as i have a second 04:45:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:20 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:49:44 -!- bytbox [~s@96.26.105.154] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:55:30 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:58:58 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 05:04:37 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:14 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 05:08:25 xwl_ [user@nat/nokia/x-dsxxhpxrrqbcyxyw] has joined #scheme 05:10:41 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14:11 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:06 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:19 offby1 [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 05:16:22 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 05:17:03 -!- offby1 [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:17:03 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 05:26:44 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:14 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 05:30:41 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 05:36:24 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:39:21 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 05:41:54 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:45 -!- panterax [~panterax@31.176.155.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:03:55 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:06:53 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 06:13:58 -!- amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:14:49 thing2 [~Thing2@MYWANG.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:16:08 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 06:25:24 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:35 -!- amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:37 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 06:29:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.128.173.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:31:24 -!- platinuum [~platinuum@S0106602ad06b80ad.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:34:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 06:36:26 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:52:49 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 06:56:14 foof: hi! is there some form of authorization on the chibi google group? I've posted a message on the web interface and it's still not listed... 06:57:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:02:27 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has joined #scheme 07:03:05 MengZhang [~MengZhang@203.208.61.212] has joined #scheme 07:10:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:16 cadabra [~cadabra@c-98-207-97-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:16:17 Anyone familiar with tinyscheme? Does it not gc or otherwise cleanup? I don't see any API to dealloc individual cells... Do I have to deinit the entire instance? 07:16:49 cadabra: if there's no API to dealloc individual cells, it's a good sign. 07:20:21 Well, my trivial scheme script dies with "No memory!" after a few zillion iterations. I don't see any obvious reason why... 07:20:42 Perhaps you have a memory leak? 07:21:20 Note "trivial". 07:21:36 I'd expect any scheme implementation to have a garbage collector, but if you keep references to the objects you allocate, it's not garbage and it can't collect them. 07:22:32 cadabra: garbage collection is trivial. It was invented in 1960. It can be implemented in less than 60 LoC. 07:23:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:24:37 What I meant by trivial was that my program is trivial. I don't see where it might be leaking. It is: `(define (foo))`. From native: `while(1) scheme_apply0(sc, "foo");` 07:25:18 If you call scheme fromC, it's possible the garbage collect isn't run. 07:25:26 Why do you use C? 07:25:43 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:28:46 To integrate with other subsystems. 07:29:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.90.1] 07:31:18 And there's nothing about garbage collection in the doc? 07:31:46 while(1){ scheme_apply0(sc,"foo"); scheme_apply0(sc,"gc"); } // perhaps? 07:32:48 I tried (gc) within foo, but it didn't help. Will try from native. Don't see any native API to call gc, other than as you describe. 07:34:11 LamBot [~LamBot@203.208.61.212] has joined #scheme 07:34:41 -!- LamBot [~LamBot@203.208.61.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:18 -!- stunsg [~dous@210.24.42.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:32 dous_ [~dous@210.24.42.190] has joined #scheme 07:45:39 -!- dous_ is now known as stunsg 07:47:56 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 07:47:56 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:47:56 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:49:25 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:15 -!- DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 07:59:17 -!- cadabra [~cadabra@c-98-207-97-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:02:51 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:05 ysph [~user@68-186-193-128.dhcp.unas.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:05:28 Tinyscheme does have a GC. 08:09:52 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:12:47 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:38 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:00 yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has joined #scheme 08:23:46 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:23:53 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ubtvhseqmnduklns] has joined #scheme 08:25:44 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgcnmuvopwwuxtkb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:37:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.192.100] has joined #scheme 08:37:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.192.100] has quit [Changing host] 08:37:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 08:41:24 LamBot [~LamBot@203.208.61.212] has joined #scheme 08:42:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:49:04 LamBot: search chibi 08:49:05 Searching chibi 08:49:05 06:58:38 jcowan: I've seen iota used with floating-point numbers. 08:49:06 06:59:27 Both the reference and the chibi implementation (until a little while ago), compute (iota 4 0.0 1.0) => (2.77555756156289e-17 0.1 0.2 0.3) 08:49:06 06:59:46 would be useful for like wave generation 08:49:07 -- 08:49:07 03:19:18 hm 08:49:08 03:19:29 foof: is there a way to get either stack traces or useful errors out of chibi? 08:49:08 03:20:41 (I have a module which, when imported, yields: ERROR in type-name: invalid type, expected type: # 08:49:09 -- 08:49:09 03:21:37 heh 08:49:10 03:21:45 chibi's module system is unique though 08:49:10 03:21:47 isn't it? 08:51:14 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 08:52:15 -!- MengZhang [~MengZhang@203.208.61.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:21 -!- LamBot [~LamBot@203.208.61.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:49 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 09:01:41 LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has joined #scheme 09:02:45 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:05:18 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pizzwddkylvotsvj] has joined #scheme 09:07:07 fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 09:12:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:08 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:19:56 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has left #scheme 09:39:17 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 09:42:36 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:08 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-131-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:38 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:46 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-131-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 09:56:57 masm [~masm@bl19-138-65.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:00:45 euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:01:49 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has joined #scheme 10:06:04 -!- asynchrony [~user@adsl-184-42-10-162.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:11 -!- euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:25:10 -!- Ppjet6 is now known as Pepe_ 10:35:36 kvda [~kvda@124-169-134-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 10:54:49 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 11:02:28 Helllo 11:35:13 -!- Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:35:42 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 11:36:10 confab_ [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:36:49 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:55 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 11:36:55 la la la 11:36:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:37:13 Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 11:37:21 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:21 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:28 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 11:38:25 -!- xwl_ [user@nat/nokia/x-dsxxhpxrrqbcyxyw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:25 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:44 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:45 -!- carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 11:38:57 -!- confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:57 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39:57 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:00 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 11:41:05 -!- foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:41:07 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:41:11 -!- stunsg [~dous@210.24.42.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:42 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 11:49:18 mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 11:56:11 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:45 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 11:57:04 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 12:00:49 thorwil [~thorwil@p4FFB6DE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:02:26 hi! is there a tool that solves expressions with step-by-step rewriting, like i hopefully did correctly here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/536135/ ? 12:05:21 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-131-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:41 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:22:40 bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-64-65-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:23:34 foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 12:23:36 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 12:29:29 -!- ysph [~user@68-186-193-128.dhcp.unas.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:35:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:37:08 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:35 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 12:47:50 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.23] has joined #scheme 12:50:20 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 12:59:58 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:01:41 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:13:08 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:21 do you really need `let' in lambda calculus, or is it isomorphous to some amount of definition and applying? 13:23:38 rudybot: eval (cdr (cdr '(apples))) 13:23:40 leppie: your sandbox is ready 13:23:40 leppie: error: cdr: expects argument of type ; given '() 13:24:53 bytbox [~s@96.26.105.154] has joined #scheme 13:25:36 mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has joined #scheme 13:26:28 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 13:32:42 -!- fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:37:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:24 whitequark: let doesn't exist in the lambda calculus, the original one anyway 13:42:35 dous_ [~dous@cm171.sigma67.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #scheme 13:44:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:44 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:19 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:47:14 -!- confab_ [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:13 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:11 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:00:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:07:19 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-158-230.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:13:12 .b 2 14:27:56 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:44 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:47:10 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has joined #scheme 14:49:33 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 14:55:16 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:48 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 15:14:24 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:14:30 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:16:29 zmv [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has joined #scheme 15:19:30 cage90 [~hondakeij@FLH1Abp213.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:19:51 -!- cage90 [~hondakeij@FLH1Abp213.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has left #scheme 15:22:20 euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:23:00 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 15:23:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:19 -!- ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:35 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 15:26:04 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76856e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:26:13 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77b635.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:42 fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 15:34:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:37:09 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120111092507]] 15:37:48 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 15:47:14 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:52:36 thorwil: racket has a stepper that does that 15:52:39 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:04 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:53:33 whitequark: In Scheme, LET is a usually a macro on top of LAMBDA. Does that answer your question? :-) 15:53:44 rudybot: init racket 15:53:45 cky: your sandbox is ready 15:54:17 rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (my-let ((var val) ...) expr ...) ((lambda (var ...) expr ...) val ...)) 15:54:17 cky: Done. 15:54:30 rudybot: (my-let ((a 1) (b 2) (c 3)) (+ a b c)) 15:54:30 cky: ; Value: 6 15:54:45 whitequark: That's my usual example of how LET is implemented. 15:57:51 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:56 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:45 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 16:00:37 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:02:44 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:04 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 16:05:32 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 16:09:33 GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@33.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:12:13 -!- euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:25:59 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:55 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 16:40:07 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:42:49 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:04 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:44:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:51:26 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #scheme 16:56:57 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:04 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ubtvhseqmnduklns] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:04 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:08 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:27 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:16:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:19 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:28:57 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 17:33:25 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:33 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 17:36:07 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:41:19 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #scheme 17:43:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 17:52:03 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:53:36 twem2 [~tristan@puma-aaisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 17:55:03 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 17:59:35 -!- shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:38 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:03 -!- shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:46 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:03:56 Does anyone have any opinion on docstrings vs. comments (e.g. Doxygen, Javadoc) for documenting code? 18:08:18 I like docstrings better, but that's just me. 18:08:24 Also, that's how CL, Guile, and Python do it. 18:10:22 klutometis: well, they're usually two different things. obv docstrings don't replace in-code comments (though some people seem to write as if they do :X) 18:10:48 klutometis: docstrings lead to interface documentation ime 18:12:52 qu1j0t3: Doxygen and Javadoc also are. 18:13:01 qu1j0t3: klutometis's question isn't about code comments in general. 18:13:14 qu1j0t3: But rather, whether interface specifications should be in docstrings or doc-comments. 18:16:24 cky: yes, those are what i've used (and phpdoc more or less) 18:16:29 oh 18:16:30 oops 18:16:34 *qu1j0t3* returns to lurking 18:21:19 cky: Docstrings are nice if you're writing the doc-parser, I suppose, since you can simply `read' and parse; it always seemed a little ad-hoc, though. Like, "oh: one of the side effects of returning the last value in a function is that we can stuff this NOOP-string in here." 18:21:35 But, what the hell; if you have it, flaunt it. 18:22:02 I've been itching to write some kind of doc-system for Scheme; docstrings are the way to go, I think. 18:22:17 Such things may already exist; in general, there seems to be an ambivalence, though. 18:23:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:14 klutometis: You can look at how Guile 2.0 does it; there, you can use ".d" to access the docstring. 18:23:30 Uh, ,d. 18:23:38 cky: Oh, interesting; so it has metadata consequences. That's pretty cool. 18:23:39 So, you can type ",d +" to get the documentation for +. 18:24:36 klutometis: Yeah, all the procedure-creating macros (such as lambda, the define{,-syntax} shorthand syntax, etc.) allow specifying the docstring and it will be put into the procedure's metadata. 18:25:31 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:25:44 klutometis: It seems, in the case of case-lambda, the docstring for the first branch gets used. 18:25:54 Too bad R7RS didn't have anything to say about that; or, maybe not. It would be nice to have some implementation-agnostic convention; I imagine that would be pretty controversial, though. 18:31:20 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:37 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 18:33:57 kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:34:07 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:07 cky: Nice corner case; yeah, extracting the docstring is probably not as easy as doing a `caddr' on all top-level forms, unfortunately. 18:34:17 Some domain-knowledge is apparently required; that sucks. 18:35:28 klutometis: STklos also uses docstrings, although there's not a lot of documentation on how they work: http://www.stklos.net/Doc/html/stklos-ref-4.html#--index-entry-34170 18:35:36 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:46:38 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:46:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:48:28 Should docstrings be mentioned in RnRS: yea or nay? 18:50:06 is it part of the language, or a processor 18:51:32 i don't think it would be part of the language processor 18:52:01 er 18:52:08 s/language processor/language/ 18:52:25 no, think of the page count! 18:52:32 -!- webben [~benjamin@173-203-84-17.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:51 on the other hand maybe there should be a standard library function for extracting a docstring out of a form 18:53:13 though how this would interact with macros is beyond me 18:54:33 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #scheme 18:55:37 klutometis, in r6rs you can't have a string before an internal define, so maybe the language would need some slight modification 18:55:56 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:04 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 19:04:29 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #scheme 19:09:40 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:49 cky: yes, I've already understood that, in the very same way 19:11:35 just was away from irssi 19:15:16 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-156-169.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 19:29:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:32 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #scheme 19:38:07 webben [~benjamin@173-203-84-17.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #scheme 19:44:10 euccastro [~euccastro@214.Red-83-59-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:50:32 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit 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