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seconds] 08:39:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:45:00 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.98.246] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:05:03 -!- erana_ [~erana@94-225-64-145.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:49:22 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 09:53:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 10:05:34 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-0-180.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 10:06:11 *baggito* has just come unstuck trying to use letrec-syntax inside another syntax-rules expansion 10:07:30 can i have a macro that is scoped to within one expansion sanely? 10:11:32 -!- T0by 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for Emacs)] 12:34:11 lompa [~a@188.Red-83-55-237.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:34:17 hi! 12:37:41 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:37:49 GoKhlayeh [~GoKhlayeh@33.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 12:40:10 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:50 -!- lompa [~a@188.Red-83-55-237.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:54 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 12:55:50 Toby [~To8y@109.115.202.67] has joined #scheme 12:56:17 -!- Toby is now known as Guest95628 13:10:39 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:18:21 -!- Guest95628 [~To8y@109.115.202.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:50 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 13:35:43 snizzo [~quassel@host163-108-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 13:38:24 I have a problem... converting a recursive function into a tail-recursive function 13:42:39 asynchrony [~user@adsl-184-42-10-162.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:58 here is one attempt http://pastebin.com/PXJ0xa99 13:45:22 but the function seems not to be working as expected 13:45:45 Guest95628 [~To8y@109.115.242.7] has joined #scheme 13:54:42 -!- z` is now known as zmv 13:55:48 -!- zmv is now known as z` 13:56:12 -!- z` is now known as zmv 13:59:33 -!- zmv is now known as f` 14:00:05 -!- f` is now known as i` 14:01:19 -!- i` is now known as u` 14:01:39 -!- u` is now known as v` 14:02:04 -!- v` is now known as y` 14:02:22 -!- y` is now known as zmv 14:03:05 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 14:07:25 snizzo: I've yet to actually write scheme (or lisp, for that matter), however, why do you need the lambda there? 14:08:26 Arafangion: well, he's using the old style of function definitions 14:09:14 zmv: Does that have implications for lexical scoping? 14:09:39 I don't think so. 14:17:53 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 14:25:21 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:01 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:04 teiresia1 [~teiresias@99-177-241-137.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:31:01 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:11 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC5C62.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:53 jeapostr1phe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 15:02:18 -!- jeapostr1phe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:10:55 -!- Guest95628 [~To8y@109.115.242.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:37 snizzo: howso 'not working as expected'? 15:17:11 Arafangion: (DEFINE (name formals) body) is syntactic sugar for (define name (lambda (formals) body)) 15:17:22 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 15:18:00 AH, interesting. 15:18:11 Logical. :) 15:18:17 indeed 15:18:27 scheme generally has very few primitive forms 15:18:37 so (define name value) is one, and (lambda (formals) body) is one 15:21:04 good day, schemers 15:21:16 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:23:04 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host163-108-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:00 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:37 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 15:40:01 choas [~lars@p4FDC5C62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:44:25 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.116] has joined #scheme 15:52:34 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-111.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:53:44 kpal [~kpal@109.249.121.195] has joined #scheme 15:55:45 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.15.134] has joined #scheme 15:56:08 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.15.134] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:56:34 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.15.134] has joined #scheme 15:59:27 Toby [~To8y@109.113.206.59] has joined #scheme 15:59:52 -!- Toby is now known as Guest30041 16:04:14 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110] has joined #scheme 16:06:41 -!- Guest30041 [~To8y@109.113.206.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:56 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:10:16 grettke [~grettke@CPE-70-92-14-73.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:11:32 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:39 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 16:23:18 has anyone written an equivalent of Practical Common Lisp for scheme? 16:25:52 that depends - what is Practical Common Lisp? 16:25:55 wingo: good day 16:26:20 Guest30041 [~To8y@109.115.58.4] has joined #scheme 16:27:08 elly: a book 16:27:17 well, yes :) 16:27:28 :) 16:27:39 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 16:28:02 it is the most useful book on Common Lisp there is. Good examples, assumes reader is a capable programmer coming from the more prevalent C/C++/C#/Java/PHP directions and tells you how to use the language for real things. 16:28:38 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-d9bfcb03.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:09 *Arafangion* feels uncomfortable with C# and PHP in the same sentence. 16:29:17 Particularly with C++. 16:30:38 i come across scheme documents that assume a lot of prior knowledge about scheme, like explaining language features in terms of other language features :S 16:30:56 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066efa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:50 you know what I mean though: languages for which closures are the hottest new revelation still. 16:31:58 baggito: there are several books that will teach you Scheme, e.g. "Programming in Scheme", Abelson and Eisenberg 16:32:13 -!- kpal [~kpal@109.249.121.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:32:17 baggito: I'm fairly sure that C++ and C# have closures. 16:32:19 baggito: (without assuming or referring to other languages) 16:32:25 Arafangion: not in the same sense, no. 16:32:34 Arafangion: definitely not C++. 16:32:43 qu1j0t3: How so? 16:32:49 Arafangion: not even functions as a 1st class type. let alone closures. 16:32:52 C# closures do have quirks. :( 16:33:00 -!- Guest30041 [~To8y@109.115.58.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:33:10 qu1j0t3: C++ has lambda expressions. 16:33:12 most other implementations have "quirks", but C++ doesn't have anything approaching closures. 16:33:23 Arafangion: no, there's a template hack which paopel call that. but not closures, and not even 1st class functions. 16:34:07 qu1j0t3: It's not a template hack... Unless you can define template hacks with square brackets? 16:34:26 Arafangion: do you mean Objective C blocks? 16:34:35 qu1j0t3: No, I mean C++. 16:34:48 Arafangion: C++ doesn't even have the prerequisites for closures. 16:34:48 Well, as of 2011. 16:34:59 Arafangion: which standard? URL? 16:35:16 uhoh 16:35:26 qu1j0t3: C++11 16:35:33 not that i care much about C++'s last grasps at relevance... 16:35:59 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:03 Arafangion: ah that. well good luck to them. I hear Russian autistics cheering. 16:36:20 qu1j0t3: It doesn't come close to the perversities known as ObjC++ or C++/CLI. 16:36:39 qu1j0t3: And even those are a dream to program in compared with Swig interface files. 16:36:56 i... try to avoid the manifestations of darkest evil. 16:37:10 *Arafangion* has done swig interface hackery. Not nice. 16:37:28 Arafangion: but speaking of "weird ass closure implementations", i've actually used one in PHP... 16:37:43 Arafangion: my co-workers were like :-/ then they were like :-| 16:37:50 It merges three very different languages into the one damned awful syntax... And one of those languages already has several languages merged into it. 16:37:58 Arafangion: none of them have studied lisp.... :< they think a modern language is "python" 16:38:03 qu1j0t3: Bah. :( 16:38:14 Arafangion: yeah. so closures: "New way to shock co-workers". :( 16:38:15 Python's a reasonable language, at least. 16:38:21 No closures in python, alas. 16:38:22 compared to some, yes. 16:38:28 compared to others: EWHYBOTHER 16:39:01 Arafangion: JavaScript!! 16:39:12 I've yet to learn JS... But it's on my list. 16:39:34 at least it does have closures with lexical scope... 16:39:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:48 it came from Scheme people!!!! :) 16:39:53 (more or less) 16:40:14 "We would have put more of Scheme in if we had had time. But the Java-ish syntax was dictated by management" 16:40:16 i don't get the beef people have with javascript. i think it's a fair language. you can do a lot with just having closures. 16:40:17 paraphrasing Eich 16:40:24 baggito: i wasn't knocking it. it could be worse :) 16:40:27 baggito: Likewise. 16:40:35 baggito: anyway Crockford wrote the book on that... 16:40:49 baggito: I mean, I don't know it... But I've seen its syntax and It has a nice "feel" to ti. 16:41:08 It seems like a nice dynamic language. 16:41:31 well, be happy youv'e never had to do any major client-side web programming, i guess then. :) 16:41:47 That'd be a pipe dream. 16:41:48 *qu1j0t3* is doing some now. few thousand lines of JS. 16:41:55 Nothing! 16:42:03 right but i'm glad it's not longer. :) 16:42:16 How do you test it? 16:42:21 my day job is mostly maintaining many thousands of lines of JS 16:42:27 baggito: cool. 16:42:29 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:42:35 baggito: scheme exp will really help 16:42:41 baggito: how much scheme have you learned? 16:42:50 not much, but i have done quite a bit of Common Lisp now 16:42:54 baggito: :):) 16:43:01 Scheme is also on my todo. :( 16:43:03 I am currently just learning how the scheme macro system works. 16:43:14 I think I like it. 16:43:28 I'm kind of translating a common lisp project of mine into scheme/kawa 16:43:36 baggito: It's an interesting difference, the macro systems, isn't it? 16:43:52 baggito: Less flexible from what I've read... But much more convenient for the usual cases. 16:44:02 -!- asynchrony [~user@adsl-184-42-10-162.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:16 yeah. i'm liking kawa so far 16:44:23 i've been looking for something like this for ages 16:44:27 :) 16:44:29 nice. 16:44:35 baggito: I'd love to be using Scheme or CL at work. 16:44:38 baggito: I actually plan to use Kawa. Infact, I think you recommended it to me. 16:44:41 something lightweight that compiles to JVM (or .NET/Mono would have also been good) 16:44:46 baggito: but it will be a cold day in Hell. North American software industry is fux0r3d. 16:45:02 qu1j0t3: Other places are worse. 16:45:09 qu1j0t3: Australia, for instance. 16:45:18 Arafangion: well, yes, *AUstralia* is worse. 16:45:19 (Or is it?) 16:45:29 Arafangion: but I see many interesting FP jobs out of Europe and elsewhere. 16:45:32 Guest30041 [~To8y@109.113.104.215] has joined #scheme 16:45:33 Arafangion: Erlang, CL, etc. 16:45:38 yeah. it's a problem everywhere. i'm in games dev now. so everyone thinks C++ is the ultimate language. 16:45:44 baggito: yep, a problem everywhere. 16:45:52 baggito: oddly this problem is now decades-old. 16:45:56 heh 16:45:59 baggito: Everybody has told me that C++ is the lingua fanca of games programming. 16:46:05 baggito: people were describing the problem in FP texts in the 70s and 80s 16:46:16 Arafangion: last game system I did was java on client and server side. 16:46:21 Arafangion: C++ would have been massive fail. 16:46:22 Although, you can honestly do some very good things with C++ quite well... But only a *tiny* minority of programmers can use it properly. 16:46:28 WHich is itself a problem. 16:46:35 qu1j0t3: How so? 16:46:42 yeah it kind of is, though i started professional games dev in Java for funorb.com, now there's more work in facebook stuff. so php+javascript (sarcastic wooo!) 16:47:02 A common problem with C++ projects is that people try to program it as if it were Java. 16:47:09 Arafangion: would have taken longer; been less reliable and maintainable; and we wouldn't have been able to use some of java's features that we used. 16:47:17 basically we would have not delivered on time. 16:47:39 there's something to be said for the same language on client and server :) 16:47:48 baggito: yes, we got considerable benefit from that, as it happened. 16:48:11 next project we start at work, node.js is becoming more of a contender 16:48:12 qu1j0t3: All good points. 16:48:25 Arafangion: *IF* we had had a very very strong C++ team, then MAYBE they could have matched the timeline. 16:48:32 qu1j0t3: Agreed. 16:48:49 qu1j0t3: Although I personally prefer C++ to Java. 16:48:51 Arafangion: but we didn't; and I think java was a better fit, overall. 16:49:18 CL would have been nice too, but a hard sell... :) 16:49:23 *qu1j0t3* sighs 16:49:27 It's much easier to find a team skilled in OO rather than "multiparadigm". 16:49:38 yeah 16:50:07 djcb` [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 16:50:13 actually.. you make me want to rewrite our recruitment screening test ... i want to see who can identify/use/write closures 16:50:57 baggito: I'd put some questions about generics and introspection. 16:51:26 this is the thing i'm translating common lisp -> kawa if you're interested youtu.be/Yyph7SN71qs 16:51:34 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:52:21 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:52:34 That isn't CLOS, isn't it? 16:52:49 That looks very OO. 16:52:55 it kind of wraps around CLOS 16:53:07 Why do you have a wrapper around CLOS? 16:53:14 baggito: i don't think we'd ever get an applicant who could identify/use closures. 16:53:20 that's how bad it is 16:53:36 Arafangion: the hints in the name. Common Lisp Object System 16:53:37 qu1j0t3: People in my team are amazed that I can just pick up a language and use it. :( 16:53:52 Arafangion: because i generate lots of methods for serialization, equality testing and copying 16:54:00 my co-workers don't seem to see the merit of using more than one language. 16:54:06 ijp: And? 16:54:18 ijp: That code there isn't scheme yet, isn't it? 16:54:41 no, this is common lisp, i'm rewriting it in scheme now. 16:54:43 well, i was before i started nattering here. 16:55:18 qu1j0t3: A common tendency. :( Particularly with the view that "all languages are essentially the same". 16:55:34 qu1j0t3: You get a bit of that in linguistics as well - "Everyone should speak english". 16:55:49 Arafangion: That looks very OO. <- yes, that's the point 16:56:19 ijp: I meant, sadly, that it looks very much like *today's* OO systems. 16:57:53 -!- Guest30041 [~To8y@109.113.104.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:34 CLOS is alright, as object systems go. 17:00:08 I'm intruged with the notion of multiple dispatch, so CLOS is something I want to try. 17:00:57 It's difficult to simulate /elegantly/ over other OO systems, especially C++. 17:01:05 yeah it's useful for some cases. the only thing is that it can start to get a bit confusing as you write, , if you don't organise your code well. 17:01:51 So one still has to design their code. :) 17:01:55 well, i'm writing in kawa now, with a good understanding how java's class system works. i don't really have a problem with the JVM, it's just Java. 17:02:03 heh indeed :) 17:02:33 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:39 Well, I'm off to bed. 17:06:36 seeya 17:06:47 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:46 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-111.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 17:08:49 -!- antoszka_ is now known as antoszka 17:11:26 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 17:13:25 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71bfb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:19:16 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:00 -!- grettke [~grettke@CPE-70-92-14-73.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:20:55 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 17:34:00 Arafangion: http://programmer.97things.oreilly.com/wiki/index.php/Know_Well_More_than_Two_Programming_Languages 17:34:01 http://tinyurl.com/76wtauz 17:36:58 Toby [~To8y@94.163.63.239] has joined #scheme 17:37:34 -!- Toby is now known as Guest66979 17:38:55 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:31 -!- confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:37 Arafangion: http://matt.might.net/articles/c++-template-meta-programming-with-lambda-calculus/ 17:43:38 http://tinyurl.com/836froh 17:48:29 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:36 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 17:58:16 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 17:58:57 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:03:10 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71bfb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:34 -!- zmv is now known as a` 18:09:50 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.15.134] has quit [Quit: ] 18:17:17 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.212] has joined #scheme 18:18:13 -!- Guest66979 [~To8y@94.163.63.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:58 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:58 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:20:58 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 18:21:37 sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:36:35 Guest66979 [~To8y@109.113.157.200] has joined #scheme 18:37:46 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:59 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:24 -!- teiresia1 [~teiresias@99-177-241-137.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: changing host; where's my fuckin' cloak?] 18:42:42 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #scheme 18:44:25 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:50:50 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-249-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:11:49 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:56 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:19:17 -!- Guest66979 [~To8y@109.113.157.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:24 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-0-180.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:21:58 -!- a` [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:34:19 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:31 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:42:30 -!- dous_ [~dous@cm171.sigma67.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:20 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 20:04:44 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:06:04 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-145.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:52 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:11 pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:52 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:09 pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:12:02 Guest66979 [~To8y@109.113.171.113] has joined #scheme 20:22:15 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:11 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-48-211-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:29:04 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:29:09 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-223-178.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:41:54 -!- Guest66979 is now known as T0by 20:43:24 hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:45:23 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 20:45:23 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:45:23 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 20:49:05 can I use a map inside a syntax-case somehow to expand a list of input forms? 20:52:18 es [~estevo@133.Red-83-59-21.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:52:23 you want to expand the subforms before your main one? 20:53:08 -!- es is now known as euccastro 20:53:40 baggito, use local-expand 20:53:58 no, I know I have to think-top down for these macros, I want to expand a list of arguments to the macro to a list of sub-forms which can then get expanded 20:54:54 i don't think kawa has local-expand 20:55:37 something like https://gist.github.com/1603552 ? 20:57:57 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-0-180.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:58:04 i'm currently at something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127066 20:58:17 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:07 i've done it with a recursive macro, with some extra magic parameters that get prepended that i can detect, but it just seems really ugly 21:00:01 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 21:02:25 for that I'd just do (define-syntax mac1 (syntax-rules () ((mac1 first rest ...) (+ (first rest) ...)))) 21:03:22 yeah ok, the + are just exampls 21:03:57 but i do want to expand to a form which is (foo (bar 1) (bar 2) (bar 3)) 21:04:58 if you don't need to do any computation at expand time, you're better off just letting the pattern language handle it 21:10:06 -!- euccastro [~estevo@133.Red-83-59-21.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.212] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:19:44 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:03 this one works, but it's really big and ugly to do something quite simple http://paste.lisp.org/display/127066#1 21:28:39 vjacob [~vjacob@94-195-174-165.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:29:55 err, see the macro I posted above 21:30:47 doing it by hand is unnecessary, the ... will do it for you 21:32:25 i don't see any looping in that one ... meta-if? https://gist.github.com/1603552 21:34:19 no the (define-syntax mac1 (syntax-rules () ((mac1 first 21:34:19 rest ...) (+ (+ first rest) ...)))) 21:37:30 what?! witchcraft! 21:37:37 so for (mac1 1 2 3 4), first = 1, (rest ...) = (2 3 4) and therefore you get (+ (+ 1 2) (1 3) (1 4)) 21:38:23 well, --- (+ 1 3) (+ 1 4) --- 21:40:22 thanks very much for that 21:45:09 that's just mad 21:53:49 man. i had made such a mess using that other approach 22:06:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:15 -!- T0by [~To8y@109.113.171.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:17:58 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:17:58 -!- SeanTAllen_ [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egtnzucphkstyjqy] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:19:35 toekutr` [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:49 rotty__ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:38 gffa_ [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 22:22:31 kk`` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 22:22:44 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:22:47 freakazoid_ [seanl@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:4599] has joined #scheme 22:24:00 horieyui [horieyui@222.47.159.116] has joined #scheme 22:29:53 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:10 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #scheme 22:30:20 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 22:32:34 phax_ [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:34:14 ToxicFrog` [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 22:34:17 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:43 acarrico1 [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-39-140.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:35:39 -!- phax_ is now known as phax 22:35:47 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:35:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:38:29 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:29 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:29 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@222.47.159.116] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-39-140.gmavt.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:38:31 -!- freakazoid [seanl@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:4599] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:41:59 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:42:19 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 22:42:41 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 22:42:49 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:43 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@94-195-174-165.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has left #scheme 22:44:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-76-112-35-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:42 dous_ [~dous@cm171.sigma67.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #scheme 22:49:51 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-156-169.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 22:53:10 -!- panterax [~panterax@31.176.142.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:53:14 panterax [~panterax@31.176.148.25] has joined #scheme 23:01:21 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:10:36 LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has joined #scheme 23:11:17 Hi all. I'm currently writing a small scheme interpreter (R5RS + macroes from R6). am just hacking on the macro system now. I'd like a simple unit test for hygine of the macroes.. Does anyone have a nice simple case? 23:11:34 Perhaps something that evaluates to 'clean if it's working but 'dirty if it's broken? 23:12:25 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:59 -!- kk`` is now known as kk` 23:13:08 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 23:13:08 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 23:16:22 LeoNerd, http://pastebin.com/WE7wB3FD 23:17:18 Hrmm.. that's quite a big one. Isn't that hygine of the macro system itself? That's looking a big big 23:17:24 Is there a smaller usecase? 23:19:53 what does 'hygiene of the macro system itself' mean? 23:20:01 what other form of hygiene is there? 23:20:19 Well,.. OK. I'm just suspecting that my implementation isn't correct yet 23:21:09 you want like super ultra basic stuff? I guess (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () [(_ z) (let ([x 1]) z))) (let ([x 2]) (foo x)) 23:21:15 should be 2 23:21:22 http://pastebin.com/mv2FNTLS 23:21:28 Here's a basic one for the "or" macro. 23:22:02 *ijp* would have thought psyntax or the other implementations of syntax-case had a test-suite you could use 23:22:43 Ah.. hrm.. So I don't quite have an implementation of 'let' yet ;) 23:24:17 -!- gffa_ is now known as gffa 23:24:22 So, what do you have? 23:24:58 The basic forms 23:25:15 Which forms do you consider to be the basic ones? 23:25:16 I can probably adapt the or one 23:25:29 define set! if begin lambda 23:25:42 Oh, then use the straightforward lambda version of let. 23:25:49 ((lambda (x) ...) a) 23:26:10 In fact, that's another macro you can use to test your system :) 23:26:12 Yah that'll do 23:32:23 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@02d99acf.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:45:58 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:46 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 23:49:19 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:49:24 -!- bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-48-211-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49:45 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.100.164] has joined #scheme 23:51:57 http://pastie.org/3186629 <== I believe this is an example that helps me 23:52:02 I get "dirty" out of that. :) 23:53:03 -!- horieyui [horieyui@222.47.159.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:08 Moreover: does anyone have a suggestion on an algorithm to make it not do that. 23:59:49 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-52-166-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:59:59 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme