00:09:13 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:16 replore [~replore@ntkngw298122.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:29:00 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:30:13 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw298122.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:13 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.18] has joined #scheme 00:41:14 I want to do music composition using artificial intelligence. what features would make scheme a better lang to use for this than python? 00:46:39 replore [~replore@ntkngw298122.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:51:40 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw298122.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:44 homie 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airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:52:31 confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:31 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 18:52:31 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 18:52:31 PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has joined #scheme 18:53:05 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:31 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 19:04:27 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:09:50 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:10:53 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.217.188] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:17:18 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 19:18:13 I have a symbol, say '+. I want to apply the procedure associated with this symbol to some operands. `eval' is the only way? 19:19:35 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:19:39 r5rs apply 19:19:44 *gnomon* prods the bots 19:20:28 Hum. Mit-scheme must have r4rs `apply' then. 19:24:49 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 19:27:49 gnomon: quit pokin' 19:29:15 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-159-62.relakks.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 19:29:34 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:30:13 doc apply 19:30:21 rudybot: doc apply 19:30:22 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 19:30:26 *offby1: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/procedures.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._apply)) 19:30:34 Doctor Apply, please help us! You're our only hope! 19:30:46 rudybot: doc holiday 19:30:46 *offby1: not found in any library's documentation: holiday 19:30:49 yuk yuk 19:32:11 homie [~Brucio-39@xdsl-78-35-185-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:32:24 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #scheme 19:40:02 Something like CL's `symbol-function'... 19:40:31 SYMBOL-FUNCTION is a totally hosed concept. 19:40:48 Any program using it is hopelessly broken. 19:40:53 I see. 19:41:59 Well, a lookup table it is then. 19:42:15 That's a sensible idea. 19:45:37 Riastradh! Hullo there! 19:45:43 Also hello to you, offby1! 19:45:45 Hi. 19:46:11 How's the year treating you so far? 19:46:44 Also, Riastradh, just what _is_ the FM principle? First Mover? 19:46:48 Fuzzily. 19:47:13 I'll give you a hint: the second word is synonymous with `sufficiently advanced technology'... 19:47:34 (or, indistinguishable from) 19:47:50 ? 19:48:04 Aha! 19:48:23 Thank you for that clarification. 19:48:31 offby1, how goes it with you so far? 19:48:39 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 19:51:28 How's your 2012? Got any cats' tails fuzzing up your nose? 19:52:58 Unfortunately I do: the fuzzbeast mightily protested being stuffed into her travel box for the trips to and then back from Ottawa, but now that we're back she has taken to sleeping and hanging out in the thing, when she's not clambering over the book I'm reading. 19:53:15 Other than that, the year's off to a pretty good start! 19:53:52 I'm planning to take my job firmly in hand and shake it until something approaching free time enough for a personal life drops out. 19:55:52 hahahahahahhahahaahahahaha 19:55:56 gnomon: et tu 19:56:33 I'm planning to make a cup of tea. 19:56:54 *qu1j0t3* 's jaw drops at the audacitea 19:57:07 Maybe a silver needle. 19:57:14 Yes, I think that will do nicely. 19:57:47 -!- Rotham [~R@174.33.144.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:12 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:59:14 Rotham [~R@174.33.144.42] has joined #scheme 20:02:40 gnomon: /me grumbles 20:05:55 offby1, that well, eh? 20:08:34 mrfpht *&@# !!! 20:08:49 *gnomon* backs away slowly 20:09:14 at least the weather is nice here, which is pretty unusual for winter 20:09:43 also on the plus side: Mrs Offby1 and I gonna visit beautiful (i.e., hot and humid) Ozztralya in Feb 20:10:28 That sounds like fun! What's the occasion, if I may pry? 20:10:36 the occasion is: Seattle Winter 20:10:40 gotta get the hell out 20:10:42 lulz 20:10:46 someplace sunny 20:11:41 this probably won't translate for you, gnomon, unless you've spent time in the US, but: I describe our trip like "imagine we're going from Washington DC down the coast to Miami ... in August" 20:11:54 *gnomon* stares blankly 20:12:15 Apologies, I don't understand your moon-man speakity. 20:12:34 hot hot hot humid hot hot humid humid. 20:12:41 schwitz. 20:12:49 Argh gack ththpbpbt 20:13:14 Humidity and I are not on the very best of terms. 20:13:46 So why Australia, home of All Poisonous, All The Time? 20:13:55 *shrug* 20:13:57 always wanted to go 20:14:06 Good reason! 20:14:12 Inspired by "In A Sunburned Country" by Bill Bryson 20:14:18 *gnomon* makes a note 20:14:23 I lobbied for NZ but alas. 20:14:26 I've done my usual obsession over "how can I get affordably-priced data for my smartphone". 20:14:33 I think I've got it nailed this time. 20:14:47 While on your trip, do you mean, or was that a topic shift? 20:14:52 while on my trip. 20:14:58 Do tell! 20:15:04 Well! 20:15:12 *offby1* glances around to see if other #scheme denizens are fuming 20:15:19 (via $EMPLOYER, I can likely put you in touch with natives there, if you'd like to consult with 'em) 20:15:30 (I might; I'll get back to you) 20:15:33 Heh, yes, sorry - wildly off topic are we. 20:15:58 ok. Well, Mrs Offby1 has an iPhone on AT&T. Turns out for about $100 we can get a reasonable amount (275 Mb I think) of data for a month. 20:16:17 Just add the "international roaming" package, or whatever it's called, for a month, then cancel when we get back. 20:17:02 And for myself (Android on T-Mobile) apparently I can just show up at a local Virgin or Telstra shop, and pay $25 and get my own SIM with a reasonable data allotment. 20:17:02 And that'll work? Nice1 20:17:05 *offby1* crosses fingers 20:17:06 -1s/1/!/ 20:17:25 not certain _either_ will work, but having two separate strategies seems like a good bet 20:17:31 pity this is all so complicated. 20:17:50 In-bloody-deed. 20:18:07 We were promised flying cars, and instead we're spreadsheeting bytes vs. dollars. 20:18:47 gnomon: but look at all your leisure time!!!!! 20:19:06 Dear cell carrier: Please just move my bits for me. 20:19:18 offby1: in Australia, you can get a month's 3G access for $20. Vodafone. 20:19:33 qu1j0t3: that sounds very close to what I was thinking of. 20:19:45 that includes several gigabytes. 20:20:03 for $5, I'll make my decision based on whichever shop I stumble across first :) 20:20:13 ah right. 20:20:18 yeah f*** AT&T 20:20:28 although I don't think I came across the Vodafone name in my research; I'll add it to my list. 20:20:36 i found them quite helpful. 20:20:42 huh thanks! 20:20:54 and they have MANY retail outlets 20:21:33 heck, for that price, you can have his'n'hers 3G modems+SIMs 20:21:49 well not including the modem of course:) 20:22:35 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:48 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:16 qu1j0t3: I suspect they won't work with the iPhone, partly out of pure pessimism, and partly because, last time I tried, I couldn't physically remove the little SIM from it 20:25:39 offby1: they do offer that format, if i recall correctly. just it in the store until it works :D 20:25:41 albert_ [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:44 OccupyVodafone 20:25:47 Gee, so far 2012 is going very fuzzily, and not very teafully. This particular fuzziness is extremely jealous of the amount of attention I am trying to pay to my tea cup. 20:25:49 sit* 20:25:58 *qu1j0t3* contemplates a cat-free coffee 20:26:08 Riastradh, the thought of a caffeinated cat is truly terrifying. 20:26:15 And doing his best to divert that attention to himself, which makes it hard to make progress on the tea. 20:26:48 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 20:26:49 *gnomon* is being dragged back into the social fray 20:26:51 aaaiiieee 20:27:30 gnomon: cut the red wire 20:27:39 Makes it especially tricky to appreciate the mild, subtle flavours of this silver needle. 20:27:42 -!- azurelysium [~androirc@121.157.225.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:48 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:31:14 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b71f5.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:33:08 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:34:49 qu1j0t3: far's I can tell, Vodafone will charge me $30 for 3Gb, which is more than you said, but still quite reasonable -- http://shop.vodafone.com.au/all-broadbands?id=700016 20:35:16 hm okay maybe i had a brainfaide 20:35:35 yeah, i paid a great deal more than that for 3G there in 2010 20:36:32 feels like Australia has more competition than the US, at least for cell carriers 20:36:43 Not surprising, really. 20:37:03 Though how much competition (or service at all) is there in the bush? 20:37:28 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d0668e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:37:38 I've just come back from my country house, where there is service in exactly one spot in the whole building. 20:38:05 And that is plain old CDMA. 20:38:23 jcowan: the distances are so great that it has historically been heavily subsidised in remote areas. 20:38:29 jcowan: dialup, at least. 20:38:39 jcowan: satellite is an option 20:38:42 Same in the U.S. for dialup. 20:44:02 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:39 jcowan: I don't care about the bush -- I'm a city boy, gonna be (mostly) in the big cities. 20:50:57 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:51:02 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:31 sounds like my parents' place. CDMA from the garage only, and AM radio. FM comes in range a half-mile down the road. 20:55:21 every once in a while, the telco will try to sell them DSL; they'll get half way through the process before they realize the copper's too old -- their availability database is wrong 20:58:05 the only competition is that somehow they've managed to ban AT&T from the area. verizon and sprint are the only cell carriers that get service outside of a 4-block radius of the downtown area. 21:02:02 must be a small downtown indeed 21:02:36 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d0668e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:05 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:46 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 21:16:37 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:18:11 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #scheme 21:27:02 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:27:12 Rapid City, South Dakota :) 21:27:25 2nd largest in the state, fwiw 21:27:28 South Dakota has cities? 21:27:34 *qu1j0t3* giggles 21:28:12 we were discussing rural areas, non? "the bush"? 21:28:36 Oh, I wasn't following; I just noticed the name `Rapid City'. 21:30:06 ~70k pop, but my folks live ~20mi outside of town. 21:34:19 ijp [~user@host109-156-154-105.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:36:04 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:47 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: best short-url ever. ] 21:42:56 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcoan 21:43:01 -!- jcoan is now known as jcowan 21:45:03 wingo [~wingo@cpe-174-108-110-115.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:46:15 What ho, wingo. 21:46:46 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:04 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:58:09 offby1: That was more or less my point: Australia is much more densely urbanized than the U.S. 22:00:27 The U.S. has 275 metro areas with more than 100,000 population, whereas Oz has only 18. 22:01:10 So getting wireless (or broadband, or what have you) to the 85%-odd of the population that is urban is a much smaller job. 22:02:12 masm [~masm@bl15-70-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:07:26 airolson [~airolson@CPE001ee502d0ac-CM0026f31ce49d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:08:53 -!- albert_ [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:05 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 22:16:34 turbofail [~user@99.121.57.65] has joined #scheme 22:26:09 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:51 cswords [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:00 -!- cswords [~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:05 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-70-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:09 -!- tupi [~david@189.119.50.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:42 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:38 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:46:35 tupi [~david@189.67.62.156] has joined #scheme 22:48:03 huh 22:48:20 so their Outback must be _really_ sparse 22:48:25 real wilderness 22:49:12 yes. it is. 22:50:05 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:05 statistically, Australians just live on the edge :) 22:51:20 It always seemed strange to me that European settlement came from the east, which after all is further from Europe. 22:52:11 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:32 jcowan: i think the earliest landing was on the West coast. but it wasn't... successful. 22:52:50 jcowan: the east coast was more habitable, so the First Fleet determined to set up shop there. 22:52:57 jcowan: and it proved viable 22:53:24 Yeah, reasonable. You can do unaided agriculture there. 22:53:27 yes. 22:53:56 jcowan: there's an excellent book on the history of hte first settlement -- Kenneally's "Commonwealth of Thieves". If you're interested. 22:53:57 First actual landfall was on Cape York, not too surprisingly. 22:54:12 Haven't heard of it. I did read "The Fatal Shore", however. 22:54:21 ah, i wanted to read that. big book. 22:54:28 not sure i have time at the moment :/ 22:54:59 *jcowan* nods. 22:56:07 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:56:22 worse, I think i just put my copy in storage. 22:57:04 jcowan: Cook was a master navigator, it was no trouble for him to explore the east coast, get back safely, and make a plan for the fleet to follow. 22:57:11 Quite so. 22:57:34 i think his vessel must have been quite state-of-the-art, too. 23:04:29 "As a juryman," one witness told the [1838] committee [investigating sodomy], "I have had opportunities of hearing many trials for unnatural offenses, with animals particularly.... I think they are much more common than in any other country inhabited by the English." "That is, among the convicts?" interjected one committee member. "Yes," said the witness, dispelling the thought of the colonial gentry practicing abominations on their own 23:04:29 merinos. --Fatal Shore, p. 267 23:07:21 lol 23:07:30 yeah as i understand it, it's a fairly dark version ... 23:10:00 Prisons, even open-air prisons, are pretty dark places. That said, however, if the aim of penology is rehabilitation, it worked remarkably well and on a massive scale. Very few people were convicted a second time and sent to Norfolk Island or hanged. 23:10:18 turbofai` [~user@99-121-57-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:12:07 -!- turbofail [~user@99.121.57.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:13 masm [~masm@bl15-70-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:13:25 The U.S. Navy was ordered (thanks to Ben Franklin) not to touch Cook's ships during the American Revolution, on the grounds that what they were doing was a service to all mankind. (They didn't yet know that Cook was already dead.) 23:15:56 what, getting the bad guys outta our hair 23:15:57 ? 23:17:25 [A 23:17:25 [A 23:18:09 Even the French went along, and they had interests in the South Seas, as America (at the time) did not. 23:19:05 "...you would not consider her as an Enemy, nor suffer any Plunder to be made of the Effects contain'd in her, nor obstruct her immediate Return to England, ... but that you would treat the said Captain Cook and his People with all Civility and Kindness, affording them as common Friends of Mankind all the Assistance in your Power..." 23:19:12 jcowan: what is also interesting is that the Spanish were only a day's sailing behind the First Fleet. 23:19:21 (approx) 23:19:31 jcowan: they sniffed around just after the landing, but didn't interfere. 23:19:44 jcowan: they were seen 23:21:31 *fds* apologises. 23:21:49 fds: i've seen worse crimes 23:21:59 fds: can you try harder? 23:29:02 I'm worried that I might offend you if I don't try harder to offend you, you... imbecile! 23:30:18 Holothurian! Hippopotamus! Abecedarian! Rhizopod! Polygraph! Vegetarian! 23:30:49 tegra [~logan@190.108.237.219] has joined #scheme 23:32:02 fds: Australopithecus! Bashibazouk! 23:32:16 Ectoplasm! Fresh-water pirate! Salamander! Anacoluthon! 23:32:43 hi, I've been struggling for a couple of hours with documentation trying to find something like "read-until" (for reading till finding a character in a set) 23:33:05 .oO("polygraph"?) 23:33:31 ijp` [~user@host81-159-31-3.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:33:39 tegra: if you're using racket, I think the various regexp functions will consume characters from a port until they find a match; that might be what you're looking for 23:33:44 -!- turbofai` is now known as turbofail 23:33:59 Riastradh: thanks!! 23:34:00 on the other hand, it should be easy to write it yourself ... assuming it's OK if you consume the first character that you find 23:34:07 Riastradh: I remembered Anacoluthon the other night! 23:34:43 I see, but since I'm new to scheme I'd like to stay standard-compliant for now, till I find the implementation that suits me best. For now I'm indeed using racket since it's the one I've heard about most of the time 23:34:44 and of course my dear friend markskilbeck reminded me about Nincompoop the other day. 23:34:47 I particularly like that word, but what brought it to mind the other night? 23:35:06 Riastradh: i was running my mind over the haddockisms that i could recall, and that popped into mind. 23:35:22 offby1: just for the sake of it, how can I read a file into a string? 23:35:39 after I open a port, what should I do? 23:35:55 I thought of collecting lines and then concatenating but seems naive 23:35:55 -!- ijp [~user@host109-156-154-105.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:04 tegra: The slow but portable way is to read it char-by-char. 23:36:13 (define (file->string file) (call-with-input-file file get-string-all)) in r6rs 23:36:17 and haven't found a "port-length" or "stream-length" function for using with read-string 23:36:37 tegra: That's because ports and streams do not have lengths. 23:36:42 tegra: It really doesn't make sense. 23:36:51 qu1j0t3: about what?! 23:36:51 but files do 23:37:00 tegra: Yes, but what about sockets, or pipes, or devices? 23:37:02 Sure it does, cky, when the port is backed by a regular file on Unix. 23:37:16 Riastradh: Right, but more generally, non-regular files do not. 23:37:19 cky: so if a port belongs to a file, why shouldn't it have length? 23:37:47 *tegra* tries ijp's code 23:37:50 tegra: Well, portable Scheme does not provide a way to provide a length when a port corresponds to a regular file. 23:38:05 tegra: I'm sure if you don't care about portability, many Schemes provide some sort of fstat-analogue. 23:38:43 maybe someday there will be a standardized library with such functionality 23:38:47 in racket you'd need to import the (rnrs io ports) library, but I assume they have a similarly named procedure by default 23:39:08 shouldn't port-length be in the standard? I mean, isn't it common enough to create ports out of files for reading? 23:39:18 tegra: streams don't have a length 23:39:33 and maybe some day we'll include r6rs in the list of standards instead of pretending it doesn't exist, instead of learning from the experience 23:39:36 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:39:49 qu1j0t3: I know.. but when it's reading from a file, it should... 23:39:58 tegra: well, length is a property of a file. 23:40:02 tegra: so do it that way 23:40:28 ijp`: i would have said the two things were compatible, but it's not a flamewar i'd enter here. haha. 23:40:28 anyway not all files have a proper length either 23:40:36 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 23:40:37 turbofail: true. 23:40:39 like /dev/urandom 23:40:44 turbofail: exactly 23:40:58 but those are devices, not bare files 23:41:06 turbofail: that's not a "regular file", though. 23:41:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h26n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:41:12 tegra: The proper term is "regular file", vs other kinds of files. 23:41:35 yeah, that's what I meant 23:41:38 *qu1j0t3* sees the ontology growing. 23:41:39 tegra: Directories, sockets, pipes, block-special, and character-special are all files, in Unix. 23:42:48 I know.., but again, not regular files. When a port is reading from a regular file, it should have length, that's what I mean 23:43:00 *qu1j0t3* isn't sure why 23:43:09 *cky* isn't sure why either. 23:43:27 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE001ee502d0ac-CM0026f31ce49d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:44:40 well, in C, there is no specific way to get a length out of a (FILE *) object, so this sort of thing has some sort of precedent 23:45:02 granted you can do fseek(f, 0, SEEK_END) or something, but usually you'll want to do stat anyway 23:45:16 fstat. :-) 23:45:33 stat if you're not using an fd 23:45:45 turbofail: I am saying that you should always use an fd. 23:46:03 Otherwise, race conditions are possible. 23:46:34 The filename-based syscalls are for when you don't have an open file. 23:46:48 When you do have an open file, the fd-based syscalls are far more appropriate. 23:47:02 right well i was supposing a situation in which you might not have the file open yet 23:47:15 turbofail: Well, if you can do fseek, you do have an open file. :-) 23:47:22 In any case, the length of even a regular file in characters cannot be determined without reading through it (in bytes, yes). 23:47:41 Or should I say, if you have a FILE* that is not yet closed, you do have an open file. 23:48:15 jcowan: Depends on encoding. For UTF-32, it can very easily be determined (I would hope). ;-) 23:48:29 Indeed, but UTF-32 files are rare. 23:48:30 i was proposing replacing fopen(path, 'r'); fseek(f, 0, SEEK_END); with stat(path, &buf) 23:48:45 "r", rather 23:48:55 turbofail: Right, that would indeed be a much better option. 23:49:06 turbofail: For starters, you don't frob the atime that way. 23:49:18 er, just seek i guess 23:49:25 wait nm 23:49:28 Lulz. 23:50:04 "Bougres de faux jetons à la sauce tartare!" 23:50:28 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:50:33 "Cornichons de zouaves de tonnerre de Brest!" 23:54:21 -!- incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:22 Full text of Franklin's letter at http://www.book-of-thoth.com/archives-printpage-7261.html (search locally for "passport") 23:54:42 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 23:56:53 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:57:36 -!- Rotham [~R@174.33.144.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59:08 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]