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[~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:32:39 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 11:33:53 gulli [c290166d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.144.22.109] has joined #scheme 11:33:57 Hey! 11:34:21 Was wondering if someone could guide me through installing Dr.Racket on ubuntu? 11:34:33 When I download it from the iste I get a .sh file 11:37:51 gulli: right-click, go to properties/permission and enable run as program (I think that's what it's called anyway), then double-click it 11:38:08 ahh 11:38:18 thanks :D 11:42:18 Works like a charm, happy I dont have to boot the windows installation to use it :) 11:52:59 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:53:39 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 11:54:46 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-atbtimphklwabdbw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:15 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-rohpvekqzrxppfmb] has joined 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[~david@189.119.133.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:47 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:11 exobit [~user@pool-98-116-156-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:22:12 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:22:15 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:31:29 tupi [~david@177.31.20.177] has joined #scheme 13:31:58 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:33:43 add^_ [~add^_^@h234n6c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 13:35:05 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:37:26 rudybot: (let () (define-syntax foo (identifier-syntax bar)) (define bar 1) foo) 13:37:27 leppie: your sandbox is ready 13:37:27 leppie: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: identifier-syntax in module: 'program phase: 1 13:37:31 argg 13:38:53 rudybot: (let () (define-syntax foo (lambda (x) (syntax-case x () [_ #'bar]))) (define bar 1) foo) 13:38:53 leppie: ; Value: 1 13:39:41 rudybot: (let () (define-syntax foo (lambda (x) (syntax-case x () [_ #'bar]))) (let () (define bar 1) foo)) 13:39:41 leppie: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: bar in module: 'program 13:39:42 *ski* . o O ( why does the latter work, but not the former ? ) 13:40:17 ski: indeitifer-syntax is undefined in the former case 13:40:27 oh .. yeah, i just realized 13:40:41 confusing, i agree 13:40:45 rudybot: doc identifier-syntax 13:40:45 ski: your sandbox is ready 13:40:46 ski: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: r6rs/private/base-for-syntax 13:41:24 now if only rudybot could pretend to have a R6RS repl like all the other implementations do 13:42:15 anyways, back to coding this crazy macro 13:42:18 rudybot: (require r6rs/private/base-for-syntax) 13:42:18 ski: Done. 13:42:25 rudybot: (let () (define-syntax foo (identifier-syntax bar)) (define bar 1) foo) 13:42:26 ski: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: identifier-syntax in module: 'program phase: 1 13:42:32 LOL :p 13:42:41 ho hum 13:43:04 leppie : hehe, what does the macro do ? 13:44:09 it is (basically) a syntactic reflection/inspection layer on top of R6RS define-record-type 13:44:22 :-O 13:44:35 leppie reinvents CLOS, part 1. :-) 13:44:45 (Just kidding. :-P) 13:44:55 mostly portable but will require some implementation support 13:45:30 should be easy to port/use on racker and psyntax (or any R6RS scheme with support for compile time values) 13:45:57 although I suspect the latter might be portably implementable 13:46:14 Hi, all. I'm having trouble writing a pop-n proc. Can someone take a look and give me a hint: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126377 13:46:18 s/racker/racket/ 13:46:19 Currently it just hangs... 13:47:11 1st problem is you are re-evaluating stuff 13:48:09 leppie: care to elaborate? 13:49:35 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:58 multple uses of some syntax, say n is (long-operation-that-may-even-mutate-n) 13:50:06 s/some/same/ 13:50:17 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:51:37 btw markski1beck: you are not writing a proc, you are writing macros! 13:52:11 leppie: yes, forgive my abuse of the language. 13:52:19 the code in fact looks like it should if you actually used procs 13:56:45 leppie: looks like it should work? 13:57:08 I can't see how this would be possible without macros (the mutation). 13:57:38 that's true 13:59:18 the problem is that (= n 0) can't be evaluated at compile time, thus is makes no sense to the expander, and you get an infinite loop at compile time 14:02:47 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:08 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:08 there is ways to do arithmetic in syntax-rules macros, but I have no clue how to do that 14:03:21 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 14:03:47 markski1beck: now if you tell me you are ok with syntax-case, then it is not that hard as long as n is a constant 14:06:47 leppie: this is really my first foray into macros. 14:07:00 how would syntax-case fit into this? 14:07:26 syntax-case is a another syntax expander 14:07:47 many scheme's have it 14:07:52 but not all 14:08:30 but it is more complicated to use then syntax-rules 14:09:02 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:02 markski1beck : another problem is that the order in which the operator and the operands in a combination are evaluated isn't specified, so in `(cons (pop s) (pop-n s (- n 1)))' you have no guarantee about which of the two argument forms are to be evaluated first 14:10:23 ski: yes - I had thought of this, and used let* but forgot to put this in the paste. 14:11:00 Well, actually, as I was undoing a few failed attempts at solving this problem, I C-_'d past my use of let*. 14:13:54 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:15:00 Any ideas on how this could be solved? 14:16:24 well, you could use some kind of mutable box to store the stack in, and pass that to `pop!' and `n-pop!' 14:17:21 (define s (cons 'stack '())) 14:18:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126379 14:18:09 works 14:18:25 you could also let the two operations return the new stack (alternatively call a continuation argument with it), possibly wrapping this up into a monad 14:20:22 markski1beck : *nod*. i would use `split-at' instead of `take' and `drop', though 14:21:45 (where you will need to catch the multiple values returned with something like `receive' or `let-values' or `call-with-values') 14:21:46 ski: I will (of course) stop using destructive programming (mutations, arghghrhhr!) - when I'm more competent :P 14:21:54 ski: why split-at? 14:22:07 markski1beck : hehe, why not start today ? ;) 14:22:25 markski1beck : why traverse the list two times, when one time suffices ? 14:22:31 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 14:22:54 ski: ah! i see :) 14:24:23 (see srfi-8 and srfi-11 for `receive' and `let-values') 14:24:23 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:01 rudybot: seen specbot 14:25:02 ski: specbot was seen joining in :#emacs three weeks ago, and then specbot was seen quitting in tiger.common-lisp.net three weeks ago, saying "Ping timeout: 240 seconds" 14:26:34 cky: I don't know CLOS btw ;] mine is very limited and only deals with a small subset of the R6RS records API. It is fun and challenging to write the macros though, especially get scopes and shit right. Most of the time (after thinking many hours) my first attempt ran like I 'envisioned'. 14:26:46 leppie: Neither do I (know CLOS, that is). 14:26:52 lol 14:27:28 it is actually part of my typed scheme library I am doing 14:27:37 Cool. :-) 14:27:38 useful side-effect :) 14:29:47 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:55 cky: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126382 14:31:24 -!- rjcks [~richard@220.174.174.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:37:44 MadMuppet006 [~MadMuppet@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 14:38:47 -!- Guest7417 [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:48 moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 14:40:47 Im trying to work through sicp and have got to question 1.11 where it asks to write a recursive procedure and an iterative procedure of the same process .. I wrote a recursive procedure within 5 min but Im still stuck on the iterative method a week after .. any ideas on how to learn iterative methods appreciated .. I have written factorial using iteration and a method to calculate the sum of the first n digits .. 14:41:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-145-120.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:41:24 leppie : lovely 14:42:11 ski: you actually tried to figure out what it does, or just being sarcastic? ;p 14:43:30 i actually tried to figure out what it does (and i think i more or less got it) 14:43:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:46 (.. and i was being (slightly) sarcastic ;) 14:45:47 ski: some of the ugliness is purely to get the scoping right 14:47:06 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 14:47:23 i wonder if the #'(define (name this xargs ...) (let-syntax (..) ..)) could alternatively be written as #`(define (name this xargs ...) #,(with-syntax (..) #'(let () ..))) 14:47:25 that last syntax though is very wack :) I was amazed that it could work 14:47:46 which one do you mean ? 14:47:58 the 'this' part 14:48:09 chromaticwt [d0360487@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.4.135] has joined #scheme 14:48:33 along with the scoping hack of the identifier 14:48:43 i'm not sure what the [_ #'this] alternative will really do, there 14:49:29 otherwise unrecognized uses of `this' resolves to .. itself ? 14:49:37 it binds it to the outer this 14:49:48 yes 14:50:02 oh, of course (right, it's not `letrec-syntax') 14:50:13 intentionally 14:50:18 scoping.... 14:50:51 i'm also wondering about the `(lambda (lookup) ..)' thing 14:51:18 that is an accesor for compile time values in psyntax 14:51:33 will a call to the macro generate a function at compile-time, that is expected to be applied once again, before yielding a syntax ? 14:52:12 hm, ok 14:52:20 in psyntax you make a compile time value like: (define-syntax foo (make-compile-time-value #'bar)) 14:52:50 -!- EOF-sensei is now known as EOF-kusuri 14:53:18 yes, if the expander returns a proc, I guess it gets called with the lookup proc 14:53:21 i was suspecting one would be able to write something like `((define-method my-type (my-name u g) blah) my-lookup)' 14:53:40 you can do that anywhere withing define-syntax 14:53:58 (though it would probably not be exactly that, but i don't know the correct syntax, if any) 14:55:41 usage is like: (struct: foo (bar)) 14:55:57 (define-method foo (inc x) (set! bar (+ bar x))) 14:56:27 (inc f 1) 14:56:42 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:02 the this stuff refers to the instance (f in above code) 14:57:37 how does it know which value to pass as `lookup' ? 14:57:44 if you say shadow a field with a parameter name, then you can access via (this fieldname) 14:58:02 ski: that is handled in psyntax somehow 14:58:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 14:58:40 hm, so `lookup' is not a value that you create somewhere, then ? 14:59:16 you create it by defining the syntax for it 14:59:16 -!- chromaticwt [d0360487@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.4.135] has quit [] 14:59:45 a bit limiting, as you can't use the same identifier for a normal macro 15:00:07 yeah, but i don't see how it knows which `make-compile-time-value' result to pass as `lookup' to an invocation of `define-method' 15:00:39 I guess it is shared through all the phases of expansion 15:00:52 and discarded at the end 15:01:05 or maybe not 15:01:55 similar to http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxprops.html 15:02:09 i mean, if you say 15:02:18 (define-syntax my-cat (make-compile-time-value #'cat)) 15:02:18 which I think can be implemented portably anyways 15:02:25 (define-syntax my-dog (make-compile-time-value #'dog)) 15:02:43 then how does it know whether to pass `my-cat' or `my-dog' as the `lookup' argument ? 15:02:56 obviously it is not just limited to syntax values 15:03:32 yeah, but who says what value to pass ? 15:03:42 i guess you can lookup any value already added 15:04:42 oh, so `lookup' is some kind of environment that contains bindings for all the identifiers in scope at this phase ? 15:05:52 yes, but an evironment with all the identifiers you have already added 15:06:48 *ski* thought the argument `lookup' here was a completely custom value, that you somehow associated with `define-method', or maybe with a certain lexical scope (cf. syntax parameters) 15:07:28 nope :) 15:08:16 but yes, lexical scoping is kinda repsected, as you would have to import/define the identifier to use it 15:12:22 MadMuppet006 : have you tried writing fibonacci iteratively, yet ? 15:13:40 hm, i see it talks about that in the text just before 15:13:51 (MadMuppet006 : you may consider this a hint) 15:16:31 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:17:51 ski: just looking through my work I think so 15:18:11 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:19:24 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:19:33 ski: yes I have done it 15:20:16 maybe you could try something similar for 1.11 ? 15:20:16 leppie: you can use rudybot in r6rs mode 15:20:20 rudybot: init r6rs 15:20:21 samth: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 15:20:25 grr 15:20:26 lol 15:20:38 rudybot: init racket/load 15:20:39 samth: your racket/load sandbox is ready 15:21:05 rudybot: (module m r6rs (import (r6rs)) 3)) 15:21:06 samth: wait, is nickserv module not enabled for erc ? i did change some 15:21:14 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (r6rs)) 3)) 15:21:14 samth: error: #:1:33: read: unexpected `)' 15:21:16 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (r6rs)) 3))) 15:21:17 samth: error: #:1:33: read: unexpected `)' 15:21:24 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (r6rs)) 3) 15:21:25 samth: Done. 15:21:31 rudybot: (require 'm) 15:21:31 samth: Done. 15:21:39 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (r6rs)) (display 3)) 15:21:40 samth: error: #:1:32: expand: unbound identifier in module in: display 15:21:45 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (r6rs base)) (display 3)) 15:21:46 samth: error: #:1:23: import: cannot find suitable installed library at: (r6rs base) in: (import (r6rs base)) 15:21:51 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (rnrs base)) (display 3)) 15:21:52 samth: error: #:1:37: expand: unbound identifier in module in: display 15:21:58 rudybot: eval (module m r6rs (import (rnrs)) (display 3)) 15:21:59 samth: ; stdout: "3" 15:22:03 there we go 15:22:10 leppie: there ya go 15:22:25 lol 15:22:37 leppie: also, you can use (make-rename-transformer #'a) in place of (identifier-syntax a) in racket 15:23:01 ok, thanks :) 15:26:19 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping 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