00:02:24 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 00:28:19 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:11 whitequark [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has joined #scheme 00:32:31 -!- snizzo_ [~Claudio@host169-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:56 jwd_ [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has joined #scheme 00:53:49 -!- samth [~samth@2620:149:f01:201:221:6aff:fe52:7b90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:45 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:04 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:58:59 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-51-82.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 01:00:26 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:04 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #scheme 01:14:55 -!- saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-hftwfuzpehaqofel] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:19:53 SwashBuckla [~simon@unaffiliated/swashbuckla] has joined #scheme 01:21:18 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-51-82.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:21:37 hey - I am using Racket to interpret this function: (define (negate polynomial) (map (lambda (term) (make-term (* -1 (coef term)) (vars term))) polynomial) 01:21:46 Racket complains with negate: expected argument of type ; given '((-8 (())) (4 ((x 1))) (3 ((y 1) (x 2)))) 01:22:21 Guile interprets this just fine, as well as Bigloo 01:22:42 this may be the wrong channel, sorry if that is so 01:24:24 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:24:47 why is it expecting me to pass in a procedure? Or any type for that matter? 01:25:32 I should be able to throw a duck at it and it should try to map my lambda function onto the duck 01:33:18 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:33:29 You're missing a close paren 01:34:19 and negate is a built-in in Racket 01:34:34 SwashBuckla: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/procedures.html#%28def._%28%28lib._racket/function..rkt%29._negate%29%29 01:34:34 http://tinyurl.com/7kwftvq 01:35:25 freakazoid: thanks 01:35:35 Sure thing 01:35:54 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:36:45 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-34-83.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:25 bfig [~bfig@r186-48-192-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:42:43 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-172-157.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:39 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 01:53:08 rudybot: (define (negate polynomial) (map (lambda (term) (make-term (* -1 (coef term)) (vars term))) polynomial 01:53:08 cky: hey - I am using Racket to interpret this function: (define (negate polynomial) (map (lambda (term) (make-term (* -1 (coef term)) (vars term))) polynomial) 01:53:11 rudybot: (define (negate polynomial) (map (lambda (term) (make-term (* -1 (coef term)) (vars term))) polynomial)) 01:53:11 cky: Done. 01:53:21 Works for me. :-P 02:03:00 oh sure, Racket accepts it 02:03:12 but uses it's builtin procedures over mine 02:03:42 from #racket: 02:03:43 01:41 < asumu> SwashBuckla: Racket will let you redefine bindings from the language. 02:03:46 01:41 < asumu> But not required modules. 02:04:11 oh, that doesn't seem to correspond with my understanding.. 02:28:48 -!- SwashBuckla [~simon@unaffiliated/swashbuckla] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:30:37 -!- jwd_ [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30:54 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-26.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:31:18 wbooze` 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03:38:55 subnothing [~subnothin@fl-71-3-92-59.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 03:43:04 jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:47:52 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:47 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 03:52:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:58:18 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:59:05 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:00:13 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:00 -!- ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:14:30 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:16:16 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.230] has joined #scheme 04:18:09 ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 04:19:30 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:26:21 -!- paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: paperkettles] 04:27:01 paperkettles [~chris@2406:a000:f005:1f00:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has joined #scheme 04:28:13 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-58-152.gmavt.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:51 samth [~samth@2620:101:8003:300:221:6aff:fe52:7b90] has joined #scheme 04:38:37 -!- samth [~samth@2620:101:8003:300:221:6aff:fe52:7b90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:47 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-45-1.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 04:47:45 It seems like the energy required to maintain my beloved anachronisms (Scheme, IRC, mutt, &c.) is increasing; why, just today I had to set up a IRC-to-GChat proxy to communicate with colleagues. 04:47:58 -!- wolfpython [~walter@117.89.169.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:48:37 heh 04:48:44 obtain new colleagues! 04:49:02 Racket doesn't feel like an anachronism to me. 04:49:25 pyro-: Heh; it seems like the pool of co-anachronists is decreasing, though, somehow. 04:49:56 Hasn't Scheme been riding the tide of increased enthusiasm for dynamic languages? 04:51:07 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-45-1.gmavt.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:51:39 does &c refer to the c language or is an &c a thing I don't know about? I share your other anachronisms 04:52:01 pyro-: &c. == etc. 04:52:48 Incidentially, in some fonts, the ampersand does indeed look like "et" smushed up together. 04:53:14 oh I see. thank you cky 04:53:51 -) 04:53:52 :-) 04:54:28 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55:55 klutometis: Do you really see Scheme as an anachronism, or was that for comic effect? 04:58:35 qu1j0t3: I think the comment is that Scheme isn't trendy in the same way that, say, Clojure is. 04:58:49 qu1j0t3: Just like mutt, IRC, etc.; they all have active communities, but aren't trendy. 04:59:06 well, I suppose you could humorously read "anachronism" as "not trendy". just not literally. 04:59:18 Indeed. 04:59:26 so we're assuming comic effect. :) 04:59:36 as the anachronisms are, of course, mainstream habits :) 05:00:01 :-) 05:00:54 I am not particularly picky between Clojure and Scheme, though I find the JVM to be something of a handicap 05:01:19 from my point of view, both are a relative breath of fresh air. 05:01:23 *qu1j0t3* has to deal with php @ work 05:01:58 *pyro-* will have to deal with ASP.NET at work if he is retarded enough to accept this new job 05:05:15 pyro-: It seems difficult to imagine you don't have other choices unless you live somewhere without a lot of programming work 05:05:50 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-32-68.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 05:08:24 Someday I'll figure out syntax-case macros 05:09:02 freakazoid: What trouble are you having with it? 05:09:54 I'm trying to figure out how to write a macro that defines a few new functions whose names are based on the one name I give 05:10:06 similar to define-struct 05:10:25 Okay, do you have some sample input and expected output? 05:10:28 I'll try to write you something. 05:10:49 (define-ai-string ai-node-name) is the input 05:11:12 Oh wait it's only defining one function 05:11:17 it just has more than one symbol 05:11:57 Hahahaha. 05:12:15 Seriously, though, lisppaste some sample input and output. I'm interested to see what can be done. :-) 05:12:38 Actually lemme just paste my current syntax-rules macro 05:14:05 Hmm, isn't it supposed to have announced my paste? 05:14:15 Nope. :-P 05:14:34 Oh I mistyped the captcha 05:14:54 Hmm, now I got a blank page. That's not encouraging 05:15:18 That's normal. 05:15:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125947 05:15:59 Okay, do you have some sample expected output, also? 05:16:07 So I can tailor it to get the output you expect? 05:16:20 it's the input that's different 05:16:45 -!- bfig [~bfig@r186-48-192-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:57 for that I currently give (define-ai-string ai-node-name-data ai-node-name-length) and I want to have it just be (define-ai-string ai-node-name) 05:17:33 the array and length accessors will always be blah-data and blah-length 05:17:37 I see. 05:17:42 Okay, let's see what I can do. 05:17:55 All this nonsense is because I can't nest structs in Racket 05:18:42 cstructs, that is 05:19:28 freakazoid: You're trying to define an unhygienic macro? 05:20:06 hmm, does defining functions at top-level make it unhygienic? 05:20:14 err rather 05:20:17 No, but if it's like define-struct it'll be unhygienic. 05:20:39 Well, it violates referential transparency 05:20:56 because it uses two identifiers that aren't actually specified 05:21:19 Yeah, that's breaking hygiene. You probably can't easily write that in syntax-rules. 05:21:34 Right, that's why I'm trying to figure out how to do it with syntax-case 05:21:57 I wrote a hygienic version that requires me to explicitly call out the data and length accessors 05:22:00 You want datum->syntax. 05:22:30 And just extract the symbol from the original with syntax->list? 05:22:50 Do I need with-syntax or can I just use let? 05:25:03 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 05:25:45 oh I can just extract it with pattern matching, duh 05:27:48 freakazoid: Refresh that paste. 05:27:52 I've annotated it with my attempt at it. 05:27:54 Obviously, not tested. 05:28:29 nothing changes 05:28:31 changed 05:28:35 Scroll to the bottom. 05:29:07 Nothing 05:29:15 bfig [~bfig@r186-48-200-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:29:35 Refresh again. 05:29:46 http://paste.lisp.org/+2P6I/1 05:30:32 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:39 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:39 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:48 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:31:05 lots of new stuff there 05:31:11 I'd never heard of identifier-apepnd 05:31:39 oh nm you're defining it 05:31:52 Hehehe. 05:32:06 can't you just do syntax-e? 05:32:15 instead of syntax->datum? 05:32:23 (for the identifiers) 05:32:28 Why would you? 05:32:43 syntax->datum is very explicit about what goes on: you're changing an identifier into a symbol. 05:32:44 oh wait 05:32:56 I was thinking syntax->list 05:33:01 this is still new to me 05:33:35 ah, I didn't know about #` 05:33:48 that must be syntax-quasiquote 05:34:00 It's actually called quasisyntax, but the idea is right. 05:34:43 ok so when would I use with-syntax? 05:34:57 Not here. 05:35:00 heh 05:35:21 with-syntax is used when you want to transform some pattern variables into other pattern variables. 05:35:40 Since you're doing nothing more than unhygienic shit, pattern variables don't really enter into it. 05:35:49 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:28 Well, let's see if there's a way to do it with with-syntax anyway. 05:38:29 Hah, there _is_ a way to do it with with-syntax. 05:38:57 I'll paste you it shortly. 05:39:29 freakazoid: Refresh again. 05:39:39 http://paste.lisp.org/+2P6I/2 05:40:23 It certainly does look cleaner. I must transform more of my quasisyntax'd macros to use with-syntax more. 05:40:50 ash, THAT's when you do it! 05:41:08 aah 05:41:28 Hehehehe. 05:41:51 Racket doesn't like it for some reason 05:42:04 What? I tested it with macro. 05:42:07 *Racket 05:42:15 define-ai-string: bad syntax in: (define-ai-string ai-node-name) 05:42:16 Obviously, I don't have your other functions to test with. 05:42:51 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:42:54 rudybot: (require srfi/13 srfi/26) 05:42:55 cky: Done. 05:42:58 rudybot: (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append (syntax prefix) -data)) (length-var (identifier-append (syntax prefix) -length))) (syntax (define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) (length (length-var instance))) (string-tab 05:42:58 cky: arg I keep writing (syntax-parse stx () ...) 05:43:05 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append (syntax prefix) -data)) (length-var (identifier-append (syntax prefix) -length))) (syntax (define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) (length (length-var instance))) (strin 05:43:05 cky: error: #:1:448: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 05:43:12 -!- foof` is now known as foof 05:44:05 Maybe if I can figure out how to use the macro stepper... 05:44:16 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-data")) (length-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-length"))) #'(define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) 05:44:16 cky: error: #:1:426: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 05:44:24 Huh, so odd. 05:44:41 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:44:46 rudybot: init 05:44:47 cky: your sandbox is ready 05:44:55 rudybot: (require srfi/13 srfi/26) 05:44:55 cky: Done. 05:45:04 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-data")) (length-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-length"))) #'(define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) 05:45:04 cky: error: #:1:426: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 05:45:16 You know, I think rudybot has a length limit. That, or IRC. 05:46:18 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-data")) (length-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-length"))) #'(define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) (length (length-var instance))) (string-tabulate (cut 05:46:18 cky: error: #:1:449: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 05:46:30 we need a way to get him to load code off of pastebin 05:46:47 Yeah, I know. 05:47:01 Okay, let's split the macro up a bit: 05:47:14 rudybot: (define (identifier-append identifier suffix) (datum->syntax stx (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax->datum identifier)) suffix)))) 05:47:14 cky: Done. 05:47:37 rudybot: (define-syntax (define-ai-string stx) (syntax-case stx () ((_ name prefix) (with-syntax ((data-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-data")) (length-var (identifier-append #'prefix "-length"))) #'(define (name instance) (let ((data (data-var instance)) (length (length-var instance))) (string-tabulate (cut array-ref data <>) length))))))) 05:47:37 cky: Done. 05:47:39 I note you shortened my for loop 05:47:42 Much better. 05:47:45 I didn't know about string-tabulate 05:47:49 freakazoid: Yes, I hate seeing all those string-set!s. 05:47:53 freakazoid: It's part of SRFI 13. 05:47:58 Hence the (require ...) ahead. 05:48:44 rudybot: (define-ai-string foo bar) 05:48:44 cky: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: identifier-append in module: 'program phase: 1 (which cannot access the run-time definition) 05:48:51 Eeep!! 05:49:01 Okay, so we can't actually hoist out the identifier-append. 05:49:17 because of the phase of execution 05:49:50 Right. 05:50:22 Why can you have a define within define-syntax? Is there an implicit begin or something? 05:50:48 Notice I was using the (define-syntax (func stx) ...) syntax. 05:50:56 That means it's actually an implicit lambda. 05:51:01 Ohh, ok. 05:51:34 I should really learn this from the bottom up 05:51:40 top down has never been good for me 05:51:40 :-) 05:52:07 learn the base language and then read all the macros 05:55:18 :-) 06:05:45 hmm 06:06:11 looking in the macro stepper it doesn't seem to consider the identifier-append in the macro to be the same identifier-append 06:06:28 oh it does 06:07:13 Hehehe. 06:07:25 It still says bad syntax when I try to use it though 06:07:46 Which Racket version are you using? 06:08:15 5.2 06:08:17 Hmm 06:08:30 actually I think I may have misinterpreted what the yellow when clicking on it meant in the macro stepper 06:08:38 there is no arrow, but all uses turn yellow if I click on them 06:08:53 normally if I hover there's a purple arrow between the definition and the uses 06:09:08 but not in the case of identifier-append 06:10:58 hm, replacing the define with let doesn't fix it 06:12:15 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 06:13:10 freakazoid: I got it to work on my 5.1.1 installation. 06:13:16 very strange. 06:13:46 > (define (bar-data x) (array (shape 0 4) #\2 #\3 #\4 #\5)) 06:13:46 > (define (bar-length x) (array-length (bar-data x) 0)) 06:13:51 > (define-ai-string foo bar) 06:13:52 > (foo 0) 06:13:52 "2345" 06:14:36 oh wait 06:14:56 that's why 06:15:26 you have two arguments 06:15:36 Um, your macro had two arguments. 06:15:49 right, my goal was to have one :) 06:16:11 Oh, okay. 06:16:21 So you wanted the same effect as (define-ai-string foo foo). 06:16:27 Well, that's a trivial fix. 06:16:55 freakazoid: Remove the "prefix" parameter. 06:17:03 Yeah, I did 06:17:08 freakazoid: Then, substitute all the #'prefix with #'name. 06:17:09 Done. 06:17:42 Now there seems to be an issue with it expecting characters when my array has bytes 06:17:55 How are you converting your bytes to characters? 06:18:28 I'm not 06:18:41 I was using that macro I pasted before 06:19:45 Um. string-set! only takes chars. 06:19:57 So your array really did need to have chars, not bytes, for that to work. 06:20:12 Unless there's some Racket extension to string-set! that accepts bytes. 06:20:24 It's possible I hadn't tested the old version 06:21:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-193.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:22:12 Are you sure you're using Racket's builtin string type, not a custom string type? 06:22:25 rudybot: (define b (bytes 1 2 3)) 06:22:25 cky: Done. 06:22:33 rudybot: (bytes-ref b 2) 06:22:33 cky: ; Value: 3 06:22:40 rudybot: (string (bytes-ref b 2)) 06:22:40 cky: error: string: expects argument of type ; given 3 06:22:55 freakazoid: ^^-- the above demonstrates that you cannot have bytes in a string. 06:25:03 Yay! Fixed. 06:25:31 I just changed your cut into a lambda that calls integer->char on the return value of array-ref 06:25:47 > (ai-node-name (ai-scene-root-node scene)) 06:25:47 "" 06:26:09 I'm wrapping assimp, incidentally 06:26:29 it has its own string format like every other c/c++ library in the world 06:27:01 a struct with a length and a 1024-byte array 06:27:47 Thanks! 06:28:05 Knowing that what with-syntax does is possible with let and quasisyntax is very helpful 06:29:38 hmm, I have a question 06:30:10 why are you using #'name and then unwrapping it with syntax->datum? 06:30:17 couldn't you just use name and not unwrap it? 06:30:21 Congrats!Congrats! 06:30:41 Oh 06:30:50 My Internet connection died. 06:30:56 So, sorry for the hugely lagged message. 06:31:08 No because you can only use pattern variables inside templates 06:31:24 Right. 06:31:34 Outside templates, you must use the syntax object instead. 06:32:10 So, after you have the syntax object, you then extract its corresponding symbol using syntax->datum. 06:32:29 You probably should add a guard, (identifier? #'name). 06:32:45 That way people can't put numbers, lists, etc. as your macro argument. 06:33:00 well it's not part of the API 06:33:12 but I'll put a guard anyway 06:33:20 :-) 06:33:28 I just have several places where I'll be embedding that string struct 06:33:53 because there are several different classes in assimp that have strings 06:34:48 *nods* 06:35:44 I wonder how easy it would be to use a macro to avoid having to define the strings over and over in the structs 06:36:00 right now I have ([name-length _ulong] 06:36:00 [name-data (_array _ubyte 1024)] 06:36:09 which will be repeated several times 06:36:13 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-32-68.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:03 I'm guessing what I want is a macro that will expand to a define-cstruct 06:37:37 With judicious use of datum->syntax, easy. 06:37:48 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.lain.pl] has joined #scheme 06:38:03 -!- weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.lain.pl] has left #scheme 06:38:12 In so saying, anaphoric macros are not really encouraged in Scheme. 06:39:10 hmm 06:39:46 so I'd be better of figuring out how to create a datatype that will work properly in the struct 06:39:50 off 06:40:01 lion turns my typos into incorrect words 06:40:49 I'll have to figure out how it does its thing with arrays 06:41:10 since you can nest an array in a cstruct, just not another cstruct 06:45:21 Hmmmm. 06:48:27 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:48:37 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:48:42 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:48:51 whoops 06:48:58 anyway, time for bed. Goodnight! And thanks again. 06:49:30 I'll nail this higher-order thinking thing yet 06:50:28 Have fun! 06:59:52 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:16 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 07:06:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-193.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:04 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:17:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:19:10 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.1.48] has joined #scheme 07:27:13 wolfpython [~walter@221.226.210.78] has joined #scheme 07:30:23 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:49:26 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 07:52:50 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] 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ago it was around 150, now like 180, so in 1-2 years we shoud get there! 13:30:17 paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:41:08 We need to breed more 13:44:58 BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.192.47] has joined #scheme 13:45:15 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.192.47] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:35 jwd_ [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has joined #scheme 13:52:21 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 13:52:21 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 13:52:21 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 13:54:15 Where are the schemettes? 13:54:29 pjb-: You mean elly and the like? 13:54:39 I'm sure elly pops her head in here every so often. 13:55:34 Well, for reproduction we need heterosexual schemettes. Perhaps that's why we're so few... 13:56:10 Homosexual schemettes can breed, there's just a few technical obstacles to overcome. But we're nerds, right? We can do technical obstacles! 13:56:44 *alaricsp* goes and gets the turkey baster 13:57:51 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:59:50 :D 'Discussions in IRC on Scheme channel' - somehow ... special 14:00:56 (maybe I should turn around in and on .. don't know, I don't speak english very well) 14:09:23 keenbug: I think either works in this case! 14:10:32 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 14:16:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-151-132.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30:42 jrslepak [~jrslepak@129.10.229.209] has joined #scheme 14:30:59 -!- Brendan_T is now known as B|`endan 14:39:08 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.217.87] has joined #scheme 14:40:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:40:43 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:54 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:41:39 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:31 ijp` [~user@host109-151-55-138.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:42:40 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:52 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-207-99.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:03 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:45:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:49:05 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@129.10.229.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:20 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 15:05:50 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 15:06:58 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:11:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:31:38 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:35:32 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:50 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:46:11 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 15:50:21 what is your take on type systems? 15:50:57 15:51:11 I'd take two 15:51:23 *qu1j0t3* takes a rain check 15:52:35 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:48 :| 15:55:01 Is that so bad? There's a language in Racket called Typed Racket. 15:55:17 So, just because most Schemers don't want a type system doesn't mean it's the end of your world. 15:56:23 i don't want/avoid one, just want to know what the general sentiment is... (seems obvious that nobody wants it). would you be up for typed interfaces or any kind of reductions of the type system for particular purposes? 15:57:03 Only if it's not a pain to use. 15:57:10 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111116091359]] 15:57:39 bfig: Look at contracts for a more Schemey way of doing interfaces. 15:57:51 Yay contracts! 15:57:53 (though TR shows types can be Schemey too for some definition of that) 15:58:52 qu1j0t3: Scheme is anachronistic in the same way that the Jedi arts were, I think; I'm surprised, in fact, that no one has actually quoted "your sad devotion to the ancient religion . . ." at me. 15:59:09 I'd also like to say that underestimating Schemers and Jedis is equally dangerous; but maybe that's vanity. 15:59:55 People at work are really surprised when I can do things like: call a REST API and parse the JSON. 16:00:06 It's sad, but funny. 16:00:59 klutometis: are you actually using scheme at work? 16:01:43 klutometis: it's anachronistic in the way that BUddhism is then? 16:02:22 klutometis: i can only really apply non-literal meanings here 16:02:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:00 klutometis: so much is sad. sad *and funny* should be treasured I guess. 16:04:53 offby1: It's a bad habit, man; I'm like a crack-fiend for Scheme. I use it for prototypes and one-offs but sneak it into production when I can. 16:04:57 Scheme is the ultimate virus. 16:05:46 klutometis: here it's effectively find /codebase \! -name \*.php |xargs rm -f 16:06:09 klutometis: co-workers aren't even interested in anything beyond 16:06:22 klutometis: it seems to arouse fear in their breasts 16:07:44 -!- jwd_ [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:08 qu1j0t3: I started a Scheme in PHP a while back for that very reason: ; never got past the lexer, though. 16:10:22 The idea was, you could sneak it surreptitiously into PHP projects or PHP hosts. 16:10:47 klutometis: ha! yes, the temptation is strong. 16:10:53 klutometis: maybe we could brand it DAGOBAH 16:12:24 qu1j0t3: Heh! I think we have a shot of nailing it, actually, if we could come up with some division of labor. 16:12:35 It was a little daunting going solo, given life's constraints. 16:13:36 klutometis: tellmeaboutit. 16:13:43 *qu1j0t3* is working 6 days in the php mines 16:14:37 15 tons and what do you get, another day older & technical debt 16:14:49 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:25 wingo: :-) 16:15:44 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:16:04 *mumble* "I owe my code to the revision-control store" ... nah 16:16:30 qu1j0t3: Ouch, man; if you don't mind hacking on your sabbath, maybe we could get a little something done. 16:16:49 The question for me would be whether to base it on SICP ch. 5 or some stuff in LiSP. 16:16:55 :) 16:48:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #scheme 16:53:00 asumu, this? http://www.google.com.uy/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=scheme%20contracts%20programming&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscheme2011.ucombinator.org%2Fpapers%2FScholliers2011.pdf&ei=AY3GTrbdMOfY0QHxm_31Dw&usg=AFQjCNFpTmrr5KDMEzCFf8FNcWiNA2CAiA&sig2=WErKABsy-0cVpBs2RxXF1Q 16:53:04 http://tinyurl.com/bp6nzhs 16:53:10 thanks rudybot 16:55:49 bfig: That's an interesting paper too, but for the basics you probably want to read http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/icfp2002-ff.pdf if you want a paper 16:56:18 For a non research overview: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/contracts.html 16:56:24 asumu, it's not that i want a paper... but 'scheme contract' is a google nightmare 16:57:30 do you program using this kind of stuff? 16:58:04 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:59:33 bfig: Yes, in the sense that I often write contracts to document/enforce the interface on my code. 17:00:06 It's nice because you can write arbitrary code that does the enforcement. 17:00:12 -!- ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:00:26 Also yeah, those are both common words so I can see how a search would be hard. 17:01:39 well, next semester i plan a deep dive on the scheme side of things, so i'll file both papers for future reading :) 17:01:47 You realise that's partly why Racket is now called Racket and not PLT Scheme. 17:06:59 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:06:59 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:06:59 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 17:13:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:05 ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 17:13:41 bfig_ [~bfig@r186-48-206-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:17:16 -!- bfig [~bfig@r186-48-200-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:17:47 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:18:14 -!- bfig_ is now known as bfig 17:25:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #scheme 17:28:22 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3A019.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:08 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.233.106] has joined #scheme 17:38:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:41:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:35 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 17:46:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:47:15 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:46 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 17:51:41 -!- metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat [quit]] 18:04:45 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 18:04:57 After all that macro stuff I dreamt I was programming in greek. 18:05:16 :-O 18:05:34 possibly also related to the fact that I've been listening to A History of the World in a Hundred Objects 18:05:39 freakazoid: I converted one of my quasysyntax macros to use with-syntax instead. Now to see how well it works. ;-) 18:05:57 and they'd announced at the end of the previous episode that the next one was about the Rosetta Stone 18:06:08 :-O 18:06:14 and of course my RSS reader is full of bad news about Greece 18:06:29 Eep. 18:10:04 Yay, the with-syntax version works! 18:10:54 With Scheme it seems like there's always a way to do whatever you want to do with less code. 18:11:10 We're just not smart enough to figure out the one byte program that does what we want yet. 18:12:28 ;-) 18:14:03 keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3A019.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:14:34 freakazoid: That's pretty cool; programming in Latin's not bad, actually, if you make use of things like gerunds, perfect passive and future perfect passive participles. 18:14:42 heh 18:14:56 I knew a guy who wanted to make a programming language based on Lojban 18:15:08 (define (translate transferens transferenda translata) ...) is roughly: "translate with the translator (transferens) the things to be translated (transferenda) into translated things (translata)." 18:16:11 I don't entirely understand why Alan Kay and Ian Piumarta think they need anything beyond some lisp dialect to accomplish their goals 18:16:25 freakazoid: That's cool; reminds me of this: . 18:16:29 Maybe they just think lisp/scheme aren't readable enough or terse enough 18:16:45 He never finished; but it was supposed to be some kind of Lojban parser in Checken. 18:17:03 Wish list: * Write this program 18:17:16 I used to be really into conlangs. No longer. 18:19:57 freakazoid: Are you talking about this re: Kay-Piumarta? 18:20:09 Yes, that exactly. 18:22:24 freakazoid: Heh; they didn't mention Scheme, but they did mention Hypercard. Looks like they pay respects to McCarthy. 18:22:24 One of the languages they're using is actually a lisp dialect 18:23:06 Adding a parsing layer on top seems like needless complexity to avoid representing stuff as an s expression 18:23:28 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:28 it might be easier if one wants more readable code to just put an operator precedence parser on top of lisp 18:23:48 freakazoid: seems like a Lojban-esque PL would look an awful lot like Prolog. 18:25:31 possibly 18:26:20 snizzo [~Claudio@host169-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:37:03 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:43:17 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 18:57:19 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:19 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:57:19 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 19:10:20 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:35 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:50 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 19:17:58 kniu [~kniu@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:16 -!- copumpkin is now known as damocles 19:22:43 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:02 -!- damocles is now known as copumpkin 19:26:51 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 19:27:31 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:24 -!- nego_ [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:30 -!- bfig [~bfig@r186-48-206-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:48 version32 [5246e045@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.70.224.69] has joined #scheme 19:43:31 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:47 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:53 -!- version32 [5246e045@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.70.224.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10:54 -!- kaiku [mokou@i.orz.fi] has left #scheme 20:11:18 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@host169-238-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:20 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has joined #scheme 20:13:07 mmc2 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 20:20:06 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 20:26:44 bfig [~bfig@r186-48-206-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:29:31 saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-qjnaamshpqqkzgsu] has joined #scheme 20:39:40 -!- ijp [~user@host109-151-55-138.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:26 ijp [~user@host109-151-55-138.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:40 zedstar_ [~john@cpc3-haye16-2-0-cust189.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 20:42:23 -!- zedstar [~john@fsf/member/zedstar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:47:01 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 20:48:49 jwd_ [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has joined #scheme 20:48:54 cky: Y NO U on SO mod election? 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