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joined #scheme 11:36:20 -!- y4m4 [fharshav@nat/redhat/x-szwzueulralnzolg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:53:27 y4m4 [fharshav@nat/redhat/x-iamfeyiudwakbdwm] has joined #scheme 11:56:03 -!- y4m4_ [fharshav@nat/redhat/x-lyezrmtvzuyfwdop] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:56:39 masm [~masm@bl19-171-145.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:58:56 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:36 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.138] has joined #scheme 12:07:24 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:47:48 -!- mario-go` is now known as mario-goulart 12:53:08 ijp [~user@host31-52-22-26.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 12:53:09 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:45 Any SRFI with a oneliner to reverse the endianness of an integer ? 13:01:55 heh 13:02:03 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:02:24 To "reverse" the endianess of an integer? 13:02:27 rudybot: seen leppie 13:02:27 leppie: leppie was seen joining in :#scheme twenty-four seconds ago, and then leppie was seen in #scheme zero seconds ago, saying "rudybot: seen leppie" 13:02:27 haha 13:02:31 Arafangion: quite. 13:02:46 arggg, what was my last quit message? ping timeout? 13:03:03 rixed: You could try flipping the bits. 13:03:12 leppie: 13:53 leppie < [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:21 rixed: first you'd need to know how many bytes are in the integer. second, thinking of it as 'swap' or 'reverse' is misleading. best way to think of endianness is as an encoding tht is little or big and is applied very specifically when inputting or outputting a bytestream. 13:03:26 thx surrounder 13:03:59 There is also "middle endian" and "network order". 13:04:06 rixed: i.e. construct a host native integer from shifts, masks, and add/or. and vice versa. 13:04:28 Arafangion: the latter can use a standard library and the former is irrelevant today. 13:05:15 qu1j0t3: Oh, some embedded systems are still funky. 13:05:47 Arafangion: it's normally used to describe a quirk of the pdp-11. but yeah if your system is 'funky' then do whatever it needs. 13:10:48 well, ideally I'd like a function to convert an ipv6 (128 bits) from network to host order. 13:10:57 but any "flip bytes" solution would suit my need 13:11:25 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:33 qu1j0t3: Incidentally, the reason it's "funky", is because it's 8-bit. 13:12:40 qu1j0t3: microcontrollers. :) 13:15:43 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:18:44 rixed: please don't think of it as a flip. You're going from a well defined encoding to an integer. 13:18:58 rixed: or, to a decomposed integer. 13:19:09 neither case is a 'flip' or a 'swap' or a 'reverse' 13:21:59 qu1j0t3: indeed, yet to go from this well defined encoding (network byte order) into an integer, I need to (on my current arch) flip bytes :-) 13:22:13 qu1j0t3: but any portable solution will be warmly welcomed of course! 13:22:15 why don't you just read the bytes then construct an integer? 13:23:10 qu1j0t3: This is what I'm doing now, but I wondered if anything better was available 13:23:35 anything else is below scheme's level of abstraction (i.e. an assembler hack that depends on the way memory is loaded into a register) 13:23:55 (registers having no endianness :) 13:24:40 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:27:43 cryptopsy [~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide] has joined #scheme 13:27:50 is scheme an abstraction layer for C ? 13:27:58 i don't remember which lisp dialect was, but i think it's C 13:28:09 i want to be able to have simple conversions between the lisp variant and C 13:28:13 cryptopsy: some schemes compile into C. 13:28:23 cryptopsy: and most have a foreign function interface 13:28:39 cryptopsy: Chicken is a good example of both 13:28:42 no i want conversion between langs, not foreign function interface 13:28:48 chicken? 13:28:52 cryptopsy: in what sense conversion? 13:28:57 cryptopsy: communication? 13:29:03 you know like how a chinese can translate to english 13:29:10 cryptopsy: some schemes compile into C. 13:29:14 yea 'some' 13:29:17 why would you type it twice 13:29:29 i'm sure you didn't even type it all out, you just hit up+return 13:29:32 because it's not clear if that answers your concern/ more detail on 'translation'? 13:29:43 2. To change to another condition, position, place, or 13:29:43 office; to transfer; hence, to remove as by death. 13:29:44 [1913 Webster] 13:30:01 cryptopsy: ...in the context of C and Scheme. what do you mean by 'simple conversions' ? 13:30:11 as in automatic 13:30:16 and reliable 13:30:17 like a compiler? 13:30:22 no like a god damn parser 13:30:23 or you mean data types? 13:30:34 no i mean the whole C program or the whole scheme 13:30:51 yes you can write a parser in either direction. or use one that's out there. 13:30:54 you know how there's java-to-c translators? 13:31:04 there are scheme-to-C translators. 13:31:05 way to avoid the question again 13:31:08 chicken is one. 13:31:12 oh okay, what is another? 13:31:44 there was a lisp dialect who's introduction clearly stated it was an abstration layer for C 13:31:55 my first guess was lisp but now i doubt it 13:32:02 maybe common-lisp 13:32:08 lisp is 15 years older than C. 13:32:23 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:32:28 and Common Lisp is not an abstraction layer for C by intent. 13:32:43 so what if lisp is 15 years old 13:32:46 older 13:32:59 how does that prove anything 13:34:59 thanks 13:35:41 doesnt seem to be too popular, not in the gentoo main treee 13:35:59 is qi/shen dead? 13:36:05 cryptopsy: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/scheme-repository/imp.html 13:36:13 is mark tarver dead? 13:36:17 cryptopsy: chicken is in gentoo 13:36:26 cryptopsy: but it's probably not the latest 13:36:33 yea, in other repo that only desperate people look at 13:36:48 it's not under dev-lisp/ 13:36:50 no, in main portage. 13:36:51 where all the other popular lisps are 13:36:54 cryptopsy: right, t's a scheme. 13:37:08 cryptopsy: it's in gentoo's main package lib, iirc. 13:37:28 cryptopsy: but may not be the latest version, which is 4.7.0 13:39:12 only thing i see 'chicken' is the game 13:39:27 Description: Target chickens with rockets and shotguns. Funny 13:41:46 ah it's dev-scheme, which i was blacklisting because i don't use scheme ... yet ... 13:42:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:45 thanks 13:44:38 -!- cryptopsy [~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide] has left #scheme 13:55:04 woonie [~woonie@175.156.220.23] has joined #scheme 13:56:24 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.20.202] has joined #scheme 13:58:52 can I ask a question about SICP in this channel? I don't understand how `add-terms` works in chapter 2.5.3. I think we should call `(apply-generic add (coeff t1) (coeff t2))` but we are calling just `(add (coeff t1) (coeff t2))`, can anyone explain? 14:01:38 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:40 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:03:09 bsod1: Sadly, I can't remember the exercise :-( 14:03:59 alaricsp: damn this last part of chapter 2 is strange, I really don't think this functions are working :) 14:04:40 bsod1: don't you try the functions for real? doing the whole SICP in your head? 14:05:27 rixed: I'm running all code and solving all exercises, but I can't run code in the last part of chapte r2 14:06:04 rixed: I took a break before this chapter, maybe it's because I forgot some procedures we defined before 14:06:22 before last part of this chapter* 14:07:32 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:15 wow, ok, I get it 14:08:39 yeah like what I said, I forgot some stuff we defined before.. 14:09:27 bsod1: it's funny how stating your problem often leads you to find out the solution. Some people use teddy bear for that :) 14:09:45 haha :) 14:10:17 (not sure the bear tool is considered XP or not) 14:11:25 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.220.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:33 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 14:21:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:56 woonie [~woonie@175.156.220.23] has joined #scheme 14:26:37 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 14:29:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.152] has joined #scheme 14:35:04 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:45:57 keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3A38B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:57 zmv [~daniel@c9533879.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 14:55:17 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 14:55:38 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 14:57:00 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:57:35 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 14:59:12 grwip [~grwip@dslb-088-075-159-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:00:09 Hi there, quick question: why is this code not working as I expect? 15:00:16 (define (pop! l) 15:00:17 (begin (set! l (cdr l)))) 15:00:29 grwip: set! does not do what you think it does. 15:00:39 For what you're wanting to do, you need to use boxes. 15:00:44 cky: +1 :) 15:00:53 leppie: :-) 15:01:00 ok, thx I'll look into that, never heard of boxes... 15:01:08 grwip: The central issue is that Scheme is always pass-by-value, never pass-by-reference. 15:01:15 grwip: Boxes simulate pass-by-reference to a point. 15:01:46 I'm curious because I wrote a append-2! function using set-cdr! and it worked as I expected 15:02:08 you normally use the return value of append! 15:02:09 I guess it's because when I pass a list to the function it's a reference but set-cdr! acts on the real 'pointers' 15:02:28 yes I know, just stupid exercises for uni 15:02:35 learning about side-effects 15:02:37 you could do the same with pop! 15:02:39 grwip: Right, but if the thing you're appending to is an empty list, you're sunk. ;-) 15:02:55 There's nothing to set-cdr! on in an empty list. :-P 15:03:42 yes I can see that, as it is said in the exercise's text: 'just expect the user to be smart and not sending you an empty list... 15:04:04 Lulz. 15:04:10 it's really exercises, not much sense into all that 15:04:13 Did it say anything about anybody sharing that list with anything else? ;-) 15:04:51 it says you must not do nor use this kind of functions but it's just to experiment with side effects 15:06:50 Mmmm-hmmm 15:07:54 but I'm really not happy with this exercises, first he tells you to use #lang scheme and then you have an exercise where you need to use set-cdr! 15:08:31 so you have to figure out that set-cdr! doesn't exist in #lang scheme so you have to use #lang r5rs... 15:08:58 old course notes die hard 15:09:14 yeah I guess, recycling is nice but there are limits... 15:09:26 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:10:26 You can use lang/racket, but, you have to touch up things a little.... ;-) 15:10:30 rudybot: init racket 15:10:31 cky: your sandbox is ready 15:11:27 rudybot: (require racket/mpair) 15:11:27 cky: Done. 15:11:48 rudybot: (define a (mlist 1 2 3 4)) 15:11:48 cky: Done. 15:12:57 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.138] has joined #scheme 15:13:13 rudybot: (define (last-mpair x) (if (null? (mcdr x)) x (last-mpair (mcdr x)))) 15:13:13 cky: Done. 15:13:17 rudybot: (last-mpair a) 15:13:17 cky: ; Value: {4} 15:13:36 rudybot: (set-mcdr! (last-mpair a) (mlist 5 6 7 8)) 15:13:36 cky: Done. 15:13:39 rudybot: a 15:13:40 cky: ; Value: {1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8} 15:13:48 grwip: There you go. :-D 15:14:19 set! != setf 15:14:38 zmv: Right. 15:14:52 zmv: Though, with SRFI 17, you can sort-of get there. 15:14:58 cky: thanks for the demo, impressive rudybot... I came up with this code for my append-2! function using r5rs and read a bit about mutable pairs but I wanted to stick to what's used in my course (surely a not so good idea...) 15:15:02 But that still won't give you pass-by-reference. 15:16:00 grwip: :-) 15:17:34 in fact what I have to write is a (delete! x l) that physically remove all elements equal? to x in the list l, but the correction I have gives us a function that does that except for the first elements (sic) so I was trying to figure some pop! function to get something better... 15:18:07 but the more I think about that and the more I think I'll just skip that part and spend this time learning about mutable pairs and boxes... 15:19:17 anyway thanks very much for the help/quick response, I'm discovering IRC and it's just very useful 15:22:50 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:51 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 15:24:30 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:26:55 zurich13 [~zurich13@95.235.208.96] has joined #scheme 15:27:06 hallooo!!!!! 15:27:46 grwip: IRC is the best support medium EVAH! 15:28:07 qualcuno o 15:28:15 parla italino? 15:28:21 italiano? 15:28:21 tupi [~david@189.119.75.220] has joined #scheme 15:28:22 -!- tupi [~david@189.119.75.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:32 grwip: Sounds like you understand what's happening better than your teachers do ;-) 15:29:24 ???? 15:29:30 alaricsp: I try to ;). But I think he's just being lazy not updating his courses... 15:29:46 RAGA QUALCUNO PARLA ITALIANO? 15:30:22 alaricsp: and maybe to lazy to dig in what he's teaching... that sometimes makes me sad but I'm kind of used to it now... 15:30:30 Poor grwip :-( 15:30:51 My lecturers at University were great, but I already knew the material as I was a keen reader 15:31:08 So I only really realised how great they were when I got into conversation with some outside of lectures :-) 15:31:24 alaricsp: Did you read section 7.2 of R5RS? If you can ace that, you can ace anything. ;-) 15:31:35 *alaricsp* looks up what section 7.2 is 15:31:42 Denotational semantics. :-) 15:31:48 -!- zurich13 [~zurich13@95.235.208.96] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:10 so really, nobody here speaks italian? :/ 15:32:23 Ah, semantics. We had a semantics course, and the lecturer put all the notes and exercises on his web site. 15:32:33 alaricsp: yes that can be nice, but I'm enrolled in distance learning so it's not easy to discuss with teachers, the ones that are lazy writing their notes are also lazy answering to emails... 15:32:35 So I did them all from home and submitted them electronically and didn't turn up to a single lecture 15:32:54 Then I turned up to the exam at the end, and there were only a handful of other people on the course, who all looked at me in surprise! 15:33:02 qu1j0t3: Where I live (in the Southeastern US), more people speak Spanish than Italian. But I guess the further north you go, the more Italians you find.... 15:33:05 I'd imagined my absence would be unnoted amongst a sea of students! 15:33:22 Can't remember if it was denotational or operational semantics, though 15:33:36 alaricsp: Hahaha, very nice. 15:33:43 cky: poor old zurich13 15:33:53 qu1j0t3: I know. 15:34:14 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:35:46 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:02 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:41:59 why did the italian guy scream and leave? 15:42:20 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.152] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:43:35 *ijp* mumbles something about stereotypical italian hotheadedness 15:43:57 oh, it's not just italians :D 15:44:07 zmv: because nobody answered him. 15:44:09 of course not 15:44:12 But, yeah, section 7.2 looks OK to me ;-) 15:46:42 siesta time! 15:51:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:54:37 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:03 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:56:48 X-Scale [email@89.180.165.83] has joined #scheme 15:57:09 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.165.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:46 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 15:59:37 Damn, I missed drama? 16:00:19 ? 16:01:07 -!- qu1j0t3 is now known as drama 16:01:12 the screaming italian guy 16:01:13 freakazoid: no, I'm here most of the time. 16:01:16 haha 16:02:24 stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:05:12 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:07:35 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:03 loldrama 16:08:13 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:54 soveran [~soveran@186.22.212.82] has joined #scheme 16:13:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:15:43 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.172.245.236] has joined #scheme 16:15:43 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.172.245.236] has quit [Changing host] 16:15:43 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 16:20:13 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:25 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:22:14 Hey, it's that guy whose shadow tells you the time 16:23:04 :) 16:24:34 ah, I finally figured out the difference between arrays and cvectors 16:27:33 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 16:28:57 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:06 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:33 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest74560 16:30:56 -!- Guest74560 is now known as X-Scale 16:33:14 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:39 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 16:38:16 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 16:40:00 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:07 tupi [~david@177.30.149.255] has joined #scheme 16:45:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-151-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:05 Has anyone else written an Irssi script that sends them an SMS when they're pinged in #scheme while away? 16:45:24 I see some Perl monstrosities that go over email. 16:45:35 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 16:45:35 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:35 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:46:08 klutometis: Do you want to send an SMS from a locally connected gsm-modem via AT commands? 16:48:11 klutometis: this opens up a new nice way to annoy you 16:48:17 ;) 16:50:27 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 16:51:12 antoszka: That would be cool; I was thinking more along the lines of Twilio (have to have an account, though). 16:51:26 keenbug: Not only that, it could potentially DDOS my wallet with SMS costs. 16:51:41 Nothing along these lines I heard of. 16:52:01 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:53:52 -!- tupi [~david@177.30.149.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:08 We hired sjamaan a while ago to write an smsmatrix wrapper in Chicken (); too bad Irssi is only scriptable in Perl, AFAICT. 16:54:44 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 16:55:59 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.22.212.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:33 klutometis: isn't it possible to call the chicken script from perl? 16:57:34 klutometis: weechat is scriptable in a passel of languages. like, six. 16:57:47 weechat needs chikn scriptability ) 16:59:08 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 17:03:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:05:58 tupi [~david@187.80.49.120] has joined #scheme 17:08:16 peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-232-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #scheme 17:08:35 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:11:16 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:26 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:22:15 jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:45 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:31:33 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:17 drama: Thanks for `passel': what a great word; looks like Weechat does perl, python, ruby, lua and tcl. Wonder how hard it would be to extend to Chicken? 17:34:29 Surely, an irssi-Chicken bridge is higher-priority? ;-) 17:34:43 talks about C plugins interacting with WeeChat core; FFI, maybe? 17:35:16 cky: By Zeus, that would be great; it seems like there's a pretty promiscuous relationship betwee Irssi and Perl. 17:36:05 Polyglottal meta-extensibility to other languages didn't seem to be a design decision by the Irssi authors. 17:36:29 snizzo [~quassel@host180-30-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:38:23 cky: Ah, but there's a shared-object-based module interface for back-door men. 17:38:46 Sorry; that's an awkward epithet. 17:41:49 Hahahahahahaha. 17:48:37 BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.198.144] has joined #scheme 17:49:50 mohsenn [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:02 i want to make a lookup such that an alist is traversed in such a way that given a lowest-limit value, i get from an alist the element whose car is the highest value that's greater than or equal to lowest-limit . 17:52:30 would any SRFI procedure be usable in this, or do i better write this from scratch? 17:52:54 fold maybe? 17:55:56 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-116.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:59:18 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-109-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:44 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.20.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:30 Yes, you can use filter + fold, if I understood your question correctly. 18:03:38 So, two parts: 18:04:08 1. filter out the elements that don't meet your low-water mark. 18:04:33 2. fold on the elements that remain. 18:05:48 s/fold/reduce/g 18:06:13 cky: the definition of fold is as follows yes?: (fold iterator-thunk init-val vals-list) => accumulator 18:06:28 where iterator-thunk is (currently-iterated-value accumulator) => new accumulator 18:06:29 yes? 18:06:29 Well, thunk is the wrong word. 18:06:34 Function is a better word. 18:06:38 ah yes. 18:07:39 incredible this definition is nowhere, even in the srfi doc page it's not explcitly stated, only presumed/implied - http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#fold 18:07:51 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:08:07 klutometis: it would be awesome if weechat was scriptable in Chikn! /me will mention it to a bored friend 18:08:20 snizzo_ [~quassel@95.237.234.199] has joined #scheme 18:08:40 BW^-: it does "If n list arguments are provided, then the kons function must take n+1 parameters: one element from each list, and the "seed" or fold state, which is initially knil." 18:08:46 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 18:08:49 rudybot: (define (fold1 func init lst) (if (null? lst) init (fold1 func (func (car lst) init) (cdr lst)))) 18:08:49 cky: your sandbox is ready 18:08:49 cky: Done. 18:09:01 rudybot: (fold1 + 0 '(1 2 3 4 5)) 18:09:01 cky: ; Value: 15 18:09:04 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host180-30-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:16 ijp,cky: aah you're right, thank you 18:09:31 it was expectable. :) 18:09:37 drama: weechat? url? 18:10:04 BW^-: awesome text mode client. http://www.weechat.org/ 18:11:35 rudybot: (define (reduce func init lst) (if (null? lst) init (fold1 func (car lst) (cdr lst)))) 18:11:35 cky: Done. 18:11:42 rudybot: (reduce + 0 '(1 2 3 4 5)) 18:11:42 cky: ; Value: 15 18:12:05 freakazo_ [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 18:12:20 -!- freakazo_ [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:33 -!- snizzo_ [~quassel@95.237.234.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:16 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:13:39 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:14:06 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 18:14:41 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:16:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:49 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 18:24:39 drama: Thanks. 18:25:52 gozoner [~ebg@128.149.8.170] has joined #scheme 18:26:23 -!- drama is now known as qu1j0t3 18:27:10 qu1j0t3: Bored friends are a source of great good or great evil. 18:27:26 it's a force to be channeled 18:27:35 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 18:29:19 *klutometis* , had he had his way, would husband great farms of idleness; and harvest ambitious deeds. 18:29:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:13 You know, most of the energy of the species goes into figuring out how to channel things like idleness. 18:30:30 I mean, the energy that doesn't go into the things it's channeled to 18:31:05 freakazoid: That's the blessing and curse of calorically dense foods like bread, I guess; we no longer have an 18-hour a day foraging schedule. 18:31:32 freakazoid: klutometis http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jun/27/cognitive-surplus-clay-shirky-book-review http://www.edge.org/discourse/cognitive_surplus.html 18:31:32 http://tinyurl.com/277llc6 18:31:40 rudybot: there were two. 18:31:40 qu1j0t3: I wish I were writing Lisp so much that I implemented Lisp. :-) 18:31:48 Heh, I'd say agriculture rather than just calorically dense foods 18:31:56 Advanced agriculture 18:32:08 with plant species that have been domesticated over milennia 18:32:24 rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-176.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:32:26 rudybot: I've contemplated doing that many times 18:32:26 freakazoid: (shell-command-on-region (+ (point) 4) (+ (point) 16) "~/getdbent_single defect" (get-buffer-create "Ticket Info")) ;; sometimes this works. other times (point) does not seem to resolve 18:32:45 I guess I should have considered his name sufficient warning 18:32:46 qu1j0t3: Good reads; thanks. 18:32:51 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:33:04 -!- mohsenn [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:42 freakazoid: What's the relationship, you think, between agriculture and calorically dense foods? It seems like the former optimizes the latter, somehow. 18:33:42 The way to efficiently channel surplus energy into productive uses is to eliminate distortions in the price system by not introducing them in the first place. 18:33:59 klutometis: It sure does 18:34:32 The big deal about agriculture is that humans pick the food they grow rather than just letting nature do it 18:34:45 so we choose stuff that's convenient for us in some way 18:35:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:36:15 Even when it's not adaptations that would be advantageous to the plant species in the absence of intentional human propagation - for example grasses that retain their seeds, which is definitely not advantageous to the grass 18:36:59 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-176.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:39 freakazoid: Because of the unused potential energy contained in those seeds? 18:38:47 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39:02 klutometis: well, because it would prevent propagation 18:39:16 and yes, the plant is wasting energy producing seeds that would never propagate 18:39:37 which I guess is the theme of a lot of agriculture 18:39:50 get plants to expend their energy on stuff that we like 18:39:52 -!- tupi [~david@187.80.49.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:54 rather than stuff the plants like 18:41:34 freakazoid: Certainly sounds like parasitism; never occurred to me to think of humanity as peculiarly successful parasites. 18:42:13 klutometis: you clearly hang out with a better class of parasite 18:42:17 Well, given that we make the plants we use more successful in terms of propagation, I think it doesn't qualify as parasitism 18:42:25 it's symbiosis 18:43:02 parasitism would imply a net negative to the parasitized species in terms of evolutionary success 18:43:26 Reminds me of , by the way, where they describe how parasitic wasps modify the behavior of their host beetles. 18:43:26 http://tinyurl.com/7m54xk6 18:43:43 freakazoid: That's the generous interpretation, I suppose. 18:43:58 I wouldn't call it generous 18:44:24 it's pretty clear that plant species preferred by humans outcompete plant species in the same ecological niche that aren't 18:44:28 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:50 Of course, you really have to break it down to the level of individual genes 18:45:04 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:47:10 Anyone know of a scheme or lisp high level scene graph API that lets you write procedural scene/mesh/material definitions? 18:47:19 I'd like to at least steal from it 18:49:11 freakazoid: What if, because of our asymmetrically successful `symbiosis', we deprive the Earth of life-sustaining resources? That's a different argument, though, I suppose. 18:50:18 Well, if we allow the rent seeking behavior of food conglomerates to continue to dominate food production, thus reducing global food diversity sufficiently, that's a possibility 18:50:26 That seems unlikely to me, though 18:50:37 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 18:51:41 Long before then we'll have global conflict due to food exporting countries' insistence on "food security" causing starvation in food importing countries where there was previously none 18:52:15 like the recent unnecessary rice crisis on an even larger scale 18:53:01 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:35 Or speculation on futures, say, driving up the price of food. 18:55:04 Well futures enable the spread of food panics by causing the system to be more tightly coupled than it would otherwise be 18:55:50 under normal circumstances, i.e. when they're used by people who depend on food prices to hedge against food prices going against them, they actually stabilize the price and do a good job of signaling what people believe about the future 18:56:29 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:56:33 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:33 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 19:00:27 I'm not sure on average it makes the problem worse, though. Speculation is possible without futures, and without futures farmers are limited in their ability to hedge against drops in price 19:00:44 they basically have to store any surplus, and if it's something that can't be stored they're screwed 19:01:54 mohsenn [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:28 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:56 choas [~lars@p4FDC4E68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:49 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:29 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 19:11:18 soveran [~soveran@186.22.212.82] has joined #scheme 19:14:55 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533879.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:16:55 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.220.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:37 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #scheme 19:20:11 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:43 -!- EOF-sensei [~temp@dsl-173-206-246-125.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:20:50 EOF-sensei [~temp@dsl-173-206-246-125.tor.primus.ca] has joined #scheme 19:21:23 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #scheme 19:21:50 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 19:25:21 -!- EOF-sensei [~temp@dsl-173-206-246-125.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:02 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 19:29:47 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:31:03 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-181.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:31:19 freakazo_ [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 19:31:25 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 19:32:07 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:37 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:37 -!- freakazo_ is now known as freakazoid 19:33:41 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-181.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:36 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-181.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:35:26 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.198.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:28 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:40:03 GreatGoof [~GreatGoof@122.178.218.45] has joined #scheme 19:48:24 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 19:50:16 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:52:31 -!- GreatGoof [~GreatGoof@122.178.218.45] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:52:32 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:51 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:01:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:02:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-232-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 20:04:00 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:06:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:07:07 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 20:09:20 how to indent an if expression? 20:09:38 then and else branch on same indentation level as the condition 20:10:05 yes 20:10:09 or both just a fixed amount deeper than the if paren, for example 2 20:10:17 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-style 20:11:19 ok, according to the guide, next question :) 20:11:48 peterhil [~peterhil@MMMXCVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:12:10 sometimes you want to put two arguments in one line, even if you broke the arguments up on many lines 20:12:23 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 20:12:36 just do it (tm) 20:12:56 ok :) 20:13:43 what about cond - body of the cases on the same indentation level as the condition, also if it is an else 20:14:08 see the guide 20:14:31 oh, didn't see it 20:15:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:04 let-values forms always bother me, they look always ugly (in my opinion) 20:17:04 yeah, but there's always receive, and srfi 71 is kinda ok 20:17:13 if i break after the list of variables or i don't, i think both look weird 20:17:48 yeah, recently switched to it, previously i just tried to be r6rs conform 20:18:20 s/be/program 20:18:36 I write r6rs code too, but I'm not sure what that has to do with srfis 20:18:48 (import (srfi :n)) and be happy 20:19:34 yeah, i mean i tried to use as few non-r6rs libs as possible 20:22:35 snizzo [~quassel@95.237.234.199] has joined #scheme 20:22:45 filenaming convention doesn't seem to be standardized :/ there is no real 100% consensus about it? 20:24:57 I think most r6rs implementations follow srfi 97 for srfi names, except chez 20:27:24 i mean in general, like (some example) may also be some/example/main.sls, does work in ikarus (so psyntax also?) and doesn't work in racket for example 20:28:46 it is deliberately not specified to give implementations as much freedom as possible, this is the spirit of the scheme standards 20:29:41 some/example.sls works in general I believe 20:30:26 hm, but a problem for implementors (or people who try to) writing implementation independant libs 20:31:02 yes, but it's sometimes nicer to group all files in a subdirectory imo 20:31:16 ok, just a matter of taste 20:36:20 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 20:41:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@141.215.80.186] has joined #scheme 20:41:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:29 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has joined #scheme 20:45:14 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:23 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:52:17 -!- mohsenn [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 20:53:37 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:53:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:54:27 hoi 21:03:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:07 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 21:09:31 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 21:10:27 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 21:17:29 Does `quixotic' apply equally to agents and actions? 21:18:31 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 21:19:06 no idea. 21:19:20 <--- quijote 21:19:38 klutometis: it applies to windmills tho! 21:23:14 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:26:59 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:30:55 rudybot: `,',x 21:30:55 keenbug: your sandbox is ready 21:30:56 keenbug: ; Value: (unquote x) 21:31:09 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:20 nice :P 21:31:23 rudybot: (current-directory) 21:31:23 freakazoid: your sandbox is ready 21:31:23 freakazoid: ; Value: # 21:39:12 rudybot: (version) 21:39:12 freakazoid: ; Value: "5.2" 21:39:27 rudybot: (banner) 21:39:27 freakazoid: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.2.\n" 21:40:04 rudybot: (current-command-line-arguments) 21:40:04 freakazoid: ; Value: #() 21:45:45 -!- ijp [~user@host31-52-22-26.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 21:50:43 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:03 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3A38B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:16 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC4E68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:55 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:20:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:23:19 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.22.212.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:47 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:34 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 22:51:22 EOF-sensei [~temp@dsl-173-206-246-125.tor.primus.ca] has joined #scheme 22:58:07 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 23:17:51 -!- snizzo [~quassel@95.237.234.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:17 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@141.215.80.186] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:32:05 -!- blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:29 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 23:36:34 -!- y4m4 [fharshav@nat/redhat/x-iamfeyiudwakbdwm] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:26 y4m4 [fharshav@nat/redhat/x-irqmgncvdwdruwwb] has joined #scheme 23:44:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:45:44 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:54:31 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 23:54:55 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:36 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]