00:08:59 -!- choas [~lars@p5795C67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:16:24 -!- ijp [~user@host86-177-154-41.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 00:20:12 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:23:54 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:28:32 -!- samth_ [~samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:29 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:13 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-168-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:08 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:51:37 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 00:54:44 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:20 -!- copumpkin is now known as JesusGarcia 00:55:37 -!- JesusGarcia is now known as copumpkin 00:58:51 Sysop_fb [fb@67.99.44.210] has joined #scheme 00:59:34 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:54 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:03:06 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:12:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:13:43 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:21:24 -!- Sysop_fb [fb@67.99.44.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:22:01 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:32:03 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #scheme 01:32:04 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 01:32:06 I'm looking for strong opinions: is Scheme better than CL? (or vice-versa?) 01:32:20 Here, Scheme is better than CL. But ask on #lisp. 01:32:40 pjb: :P 01:33:18 buhman: If I said that CL is better than Scheme here, I'd be kicked out. 01:33:28 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:38:09 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:38:13 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:38:13 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 01:40:43 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #scheme 01:44:43 Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined #scheme 01:46:25 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has left #scheme 01:46:43 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:47:33 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 01:47:56 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:40 buhman: Hahaha 01:49:03 buhman: the secret is, there is no 'better'. 01:49:09 buhman: but I think you already know that. 01:50:43 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.130] has joined #scheme 01:53:13 qu1j0t3: well I just wanted to hear strong opinions from which I could derive my own conclusion 01:53:55 buhman: if you are new to lisp family languages, scheme is usually recommended for beginners. 01:54:08 buhman: I'm pretty much a beginner, and I'm learning SCheme, and about to embark on CL 01:54:31 buhman: but without parameters, 'best' means nothing :) 01:55:03 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:56:13 buhman, better or worse at what? 01:56:22 which CL impl, which scheme impl? 01:57:14 CL lacks continuations, and its package and macro systems are primitive to say the least. 01:57:36 look at the size of CLHS vs r5rs: do you prefer C++ or C? Which would you rather learn first? 01:57:48 but it does the job, has good implementations, it's possible to write reasonably portable code, and there are awesome hackers such as Xach using it. 01:58:21 aspect, not very fair, because the CLHS specifies much more functionality than the r5rs does. 01:58:59 structures, vectors, objects, streams, etc... if you add the text of all relevant srfi's, it's not necessarily better than the CLHS. 01:59:58 then, the scheme ecosystem has a much wider variety of systems than the CL community. 02:01:14 aspect: I don't like C++ 02:01:18 qu1j0t3: sounds reasonable 02:01:51 aspect: I'd rather learn C first, and never touch C++ without a 100-foot pole 02:02:07 compare Racket and Ypsilon 02:02:23 C++ now has lambdas! 02:02:40 though dynamic extent only, I believe. 02:03:25 Fare: true enough. I think there's some tenuous validity to the analogy in terms the mental space required to hold enough of the language to be able to read most code. I'm inexperienced with CL though, so I could be talking hot air 02:03:29 qu1j0t3: I think I might follow your plan of attack 02:04:30 aspect: what if most code uses weird libraries, and every two projects use different libraries? 02:04:51 not that the problem doesn't happen with CL, C, C++ and any other language. 02:05:05 but with Scheme, it can happen for pretty basic functionality 02:05:18 though less so if you restrict yourself to one implementation 02:06:50 wait, what? 02:07:34 buhman: yeah it seems wise to begin with Scheme. Scheme can be used for production work, it's quite mature. 02:08:10 buhman: and if you don't know C: put off learning that till later. :) 02:08:44 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:23 buhman: what's the goal? 02:09:48 *qu1j0t3* praises Fare's question 02:10:19 tupi [~david@189.119.49.67] has joined #scheme 02:11:22 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:11:31 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:41 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:11:46 qu1j0t3: I already know C (more or less) 02:12:08 Fare: I'm not quite sure yet; I was hoping I would come across some inspirationg during my learning process 02:12:27 what interests you? 02:13:32 Fare: well this claim that "lisp is secretly used for AI programming" is interesting 02:13:39 buhman: hahaha 02:13:42 and bullshit 02:13:57 buhman: it's used for everything. the AI thing is some kind of unhelpful meme. 02:14:01 like the "C is fast" meme. 02:14:11 Fare: eh? http://www.clisp.org/propaganda.html isn't that the first line there? 02:14:14 everyone knows lisp is used for "AI" programming, and there's a big gap between "AI" and AI. 02:14:18 Fare: or did I misread? 02:14:23 AI is a typo for "All" 02:14:50 Fare: I think you completely lost me 02:15:02 lisp is flexible. So it can be relatively more easily used for programming that hasn't been done before. 02:15:11 than inflexible languages. 02:15:43 Fare: which I think might be precisely what I'm looking for 02:15:54 :) 02:15:55 its also has relatively better defined and simpler semantics than a lot of languages, so can be used for a lot more interesting metaprogramming 02:16:00 most people are, but they don't know it :) 02:16:05 though people do amazing things with Haskell. 02:18:00 so I'm not understanding still 02:18:11 what's this supposed to be, if not "AI"? http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/0.html 02:18:27 buhman: it doesn't really demonstrate anything 02:19:59 qu1j0t3: no argument there, but I've never seens such claims about "X language is good at Y specifically" on any other language's website 02:20:16 Excuse me, language implementation * 02:20:59 buhman: oh, those claims are made frequently. 02:21:13 buhman: "C is good for.. systems programming." 02:21:23 buhman: PHP is good for web applications, etc. 02:21:39 buhman: i'm not endorsing these opinions, just that every language comes with its cloud of preconceptions. 02:21:50 buhman: Lisp's are particulalry weird, maybe because so few people try it. 02:21:56 buhman, once again, people can do "AI" in any language 02:21:58 buhman: here, some answers may help you out. http://www.quora.com/Lisp-programming-language?q=lisp 02:22:24 lisp is rather good at it, but a lot of people choose, say, python, because of a lot of libraries. 02:22:48 or C++ because they want a lot of speed in the number crunching parts. 02:23:00 buhman: this is probably my favourite ever response to your line of questioning. http://www.quora.com/Lisp-programming-language/What-can-Lisp-or-its-dialects-do/answer/Toby-Thain 02:23:00 http://tinyurl.com/3rznvej 02:23:03 or Java because of "professional" libraries 02:23:10 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:23:36 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:24:15 in the end, it appears that every programmer has some sense of life, some general tastes, that make him like some languages rather than others. 02:24:33 so try a few, and see which fit you 02:24:47 Fare: trouble is, it's often combined with an unwillingness to explore the language space. so many people are 1-language programmers! 02:24:58 Fare: yes, that's the only course (try a few) 02:25:02 yup. If I were you, I'd explore 02:25:28 I like Python 02:25:32 say, Racket (PLT Scheme), Haskell, Oz, F#. 02:25:48 good selection! 02:26:09 :) 02:26:32 buhman: this is also very topical http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2038036 02:26:40 I can't stand java or C++, but I do like C (in the context of the limited amount of avr-gcc programming I do) 02:26:51 add a few trivial languages like mindfuck, unlambda, etc. 02:34:26 Brain. Brainfuck. There's no mind involved. 02:39:14 *qu1j0t3* wouldn't be surprised if there was a mindfuck out there too 02:39:29 gnomon: your point is well taken tho 02:40:14 *qu1j0t3* doesn't really get into novelty languages but Piet was interesting. 02:40:23 and Whitespace appeals to some people. 02:40:38 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 02:41:39 qu1j0t3, I deep-dived into Brainfuck at one point and learned a lot while doing so. It was very interesting to build a compiler which recursively investigated the dependencies of the one looping construct to figure out if they were being used to represent compile-time constants, runtime calculations, or conditionals. 02:42:23 It was like building the reverse of a traditional compiler, where instead the goal was to build higher-level constructs out of the lowest level units. 02:47:07 gnomon: wow 02:49:58 I have this great mental image of you simultaneously avoiding eye contact, backing away slowly and non-threateningly, and frantically trying to scope out the closest exit. 02:53:37 -!- turbofai` [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:54:37 buhman: Lisp for AI is historical. McCarthy fathered both AI and Lisp. Many foundational papers demonstrated using Lisp (see Rodney Brooks and subsumption architecture). 02:55:32 However, nowadays AI uses different techniques and algorithms (e.g. bayesian models) that don't relate to Lisp. 02:57:24 gnomon: no... 02:58:03 gnomon: I was going to say something like "...but you're smarter than me." I'm not scared of smart people, I look up to them! Which is the suitable position before a gnomon I believe! 02:58:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:58:27 asumu: nowadays [50 years later] 03:00:30 asumu: I know people doing bayesian models in lisp 03:01:05 Not saying you can't, but Lisp isn't any better at it than Java except where it's better in general. 03:01:14 and quite a few people who think that macros + continuations allow you to build great languages to build systems that keep searching for better probabilistic models. 03:01:47 and that's where Lisp >>>> Java 03:03:02 qu1j0t3, with all the awesomely smart and productive people in here, you don't want to be looking up to me! I'm the class clown. 03:08:11 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:08:43 gnomon: It's no shame to be a clown of the best class, or something. :) Worst house in the best street, and all that. 03:08:52 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 03:08:59 gnomon: did that Bf stuff get published somewhere? 03:09:22 gnomon: lot of smart people toiling away on things that stay hidden away :| 03:10:40 qu1j0t3, I never cleaned it up enough to put it out anywhere, no. That was at least five or six years ago now; I'll see if I can dig it out of a backup or something. 03:10:55 (BF stuff doesn't deserve to get published anywhere!) 03:12:27 gnomon: don't dig it out on my account; i'm a bit busy to read it. 03:12:39 gnomon: but it sounds pretty interesting, was it part of a larger project? 03:12:42 gnomon: or just for fun? 03:13:49 It was just for fun. I hacked it together under LispMe on a Palm Pilot during a real analysis course that utterly, utterly failed to engage my interest. 03:13:55 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 03:14:13 ha 03:14:48 ...which really described most of my unfortunately ill-fated university career, really. I folded a 120-unit modular truncated icosahedron during the calculus course which followed that real analysis course. 03:14:53 Man, what a waste of time and money. 03:15:24 lol @ truncated icosahedron 03:15:45 gnomon: i hope things improved after this. 03:16:42 Academically, nope, but as far as life is concerned, I'm pretty sure I've won that lottery. 03:17:06 I _do_ wish I had an excuse to code more Scheme at $EMPLOYER, but I really have no room to complain there. 03:18:17 I spend a disproportionate amount of time there ironing douchebaggery out of ksh88/93+ scripts before they're unleashed on my prod environments. 03:19:16 haha 03:20:02 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:44 .oO( one might reasonably inquire why one doesn't apply the hot iron to the source of the scripts rather than the code itself, to which inquiry the only logical reaction is "bloody HR!" ) 03:21:53 gnomon: I was about to ask 03:21:58 gnomon: whether you try to educate the source 03:22:10 Always. 03:22:22 ah good, you believe in the perfectibility of man? :) 03:22:44 -1/man/hu&/ 03:23:08 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 03:23:21 I believe in the possibility of improvement, yes! Not a lot of evidence backing up that belief right now, but I'm sticking with the hypothesis for now. 03:23:27 gnomon, why ksh scripts at all? replace them! 03:23:30 gnomon: so how do people respond to advice on writing better shell scripts? 03:23:50 I've recently replaced some zsh scripts with lisp. SO GOOD! 03:23:56 :) 03:24:06 and zsh is the least bad of the shells. 03:24:38 but after 1000 or 2000 lines, it gets out of hand. 03:24:38 yes we're certainly in the era of 'hold your nose and try to use the least worst' 03:24:38 *qu1j0t3* is supposedly a php dev 03:24:55 php? wow, even worse than shell 03:24:58 rather. 03:25:13 do I believe in the perfectibility of the software business? :/ 03:25:23 qu1j0t3, generally the reaction is "they're shell scripts, they're not programs, so they don't deserve scrutiny, review, or QA", to which I generally respond with two or three rounds of gentle advice before I whip out the flaming baseball bat and make a few salient points about change- and deployment-related incidents. 03:25:28 though, it has eval... you can write FEXPR, and hence macros. 03:25:30 gnomon: WOW. 03:25:39 gnomon: that's... beyond clueless. 03:25:51 gnomon: do they even version control them? 03:25:51 You're telling me. And these are smart people. 03:25:56 I remember using EVAL to do some database loading of data. 03:25:56 >_> 03:25:57 <_< 03:26:01 gnomon: oh please... 03:26:06 ...I will win that fight. But right now, no. 03:26:10 gnomon: holy crap. 03:26:33 gnomon: ask your boss for a flamethrower and a couple of grunts with a tripod mounted machine gun 03:26:35 Fare, there are a very limited number of tools allowed within the environment, to my annoyance. 03:26:44 I spent some time making CL a better system to write shell scripts. 03:26:56 Fare: but... lisp is good for AI... 03:26:57 *qu1j0t3* runz 03:27:00 .oO("a few strong points about the quality of undergraduate education in Amerika") 03:27:11 For from perfect, but already mucho better than a shell script. 03:27:13 Far 03:27:14 qu1j0t3, that's the best part - when I don't gain enough traction in those arguments, I call in my boss. He doesn't bring the flamethrower, he _is_ the flamethrower. Watching that man in action is inspiring. 03:27:19 gnomon: what's scary is that the clueless get their way. 03:27:32 qu1j0t3, not as long as I'm around they don't. 03:27:34 I have also used Racket in the past for similar things 03:27:34 gnomon: hm, well. okay that's not so bad then. 03:28:01 gnomon: i find myself in impasses with very junior programmers. 03:28:13 gnomon: they ... seem to think it's a democracy.... 03:28:27 Fare, how did you like... oh, darn, what was that Shivers system built atop Scheme48? Right, scsh! Did you steal any ideas from that? 03:28:53 gnomon: yes and no. On the one hand, I didn't go that far yet. 03:28:55 scsh was much nicer than i expected (reading the paper, i did not try it) 03:29:05 scsh is beautiful. 03:29:10 qu1j0t3, I keep trying to figure out whether junior or senior programmers are less flexible. 03:29:11 On the other hand, lots of the pieces I used or built are indirectly informed by it. 03:29:16 offby1: yes, and i wasn't expecting that. 03:29:24 I personally like a DOS prompt 03:29:25 gnomon: right 03:29:27 offby1, I keep wishing that it will suddenly take over the world. 03:29:32 me too 03:29:43 Fare, very nifty. 03:29:44 maybe someone will finish the guile port 03:29:46 gnomon: these are PHP programmers, who occasionally fantasise about writing Python. 03:29:55 gnomon: so i guess they're better than PHP programmers, period. 03:30:03 slightly./ 03:30:28 the Python thing, well, even that's not going to happen. 03:30:35 it's just something they talk about 03:30:35 gnomon, for deployment reasons with CL, I'm limited in what functionality I use (no dependency on hard-to-deploy non-standard .so) 03:30:41 as if Python is some holy grail 03:30:50 *qu1j0t3* did something thar 03:31:00 with more .so, I could have a real fork/spawn infrastructure 03:31:13 *qu1j0t3* sporks a faun 03:31:57 I'm SURE Python was invented just so PHP programmers could have a pressure valve 03:31:57 with my "run anywhere in pure portable lisp" thing, I sometimes fork a shell to run a pipe for me. 03:32:48 gnomon: we had one of the inflexible seniors until recently. 03:32:58 gnomon: he was a PHP guy, to the death... 03:33:18 gnomon: had made that pact.. "well, you're ugly, but we're going to do this together... and nothing shall come between us..." etc 03:33:43 We live in an age where PHP programmers can be considered "senior"? That is... quietly sad. 03:33:44 i am sure my emails about functional programming, keeping an open mind, etc, were trashed quicker than Viagra spam 03:33:51 gnomon: quite 03:34:21 gnomon: it's pretty much like Groundhog Day, 1999 03:34:27 gnomon: in terms of web development 03:34:47 gnomon: you should have heard the howls of derisive laughter when I said Facebook's XHP was doing something clever by having first class XML syntax 03:35:28 a tiara on a pig, granted. 03:35:33 alright, a shit tiara. 03:39:35 -!- drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:41 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:43:09 dsmith [~dsmith@66.178.229.162] has joined #scheme 03:45:36 -!- tupi [~david@189.119.49.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:55 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@66.178.229.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51:33 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:56:41 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:03:17 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:10 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:13 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:19:33 -!- jrslepak_ [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:36 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:34:07 hoi 04:39:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-147-91.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:44:15 Fare: http://blog.fogus.me/2011/10/18/programming-language-development-the-past-5-years/ 04:44:16 http://tinyurl.com/3o8bguj 04:45:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-187.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:48:24 jrapdx 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[~user@host86-177-154-41.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 12:04:00 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 12:06:52 *wingo* reads eli's paper 12:10:44 I like reading papers 12:10:52 It STIMULATES my BODY and MIND. 12:13:05 i ran into a case in which define-fluid-syntax / define-syntax-parameter would be useful just yesterday 12:17:41 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:50 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:29:47 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:36:41 markofve1o [mshroyer@c-174-48-145-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:47:40 masm [~masm@bl19-168-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 13:23:15 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-174.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:23:36 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-174.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:25:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping 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#scheme 15:55:54 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 15:58:44 choas [~lars@p4FDC5111.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:02:29 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:19 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:03:36 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:06:09 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:07:26 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:05 snizzo [~quassel@host159-41-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 16:33:49 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:33:58 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC5111.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:57:03 certainty [~david@port-11904.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #scheme 17:07:22 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 17:14:58 The Economist's obituary for McCarthy and Ritchie: http://www.economist.com/node/21536536 17:17:20 cicciopasticcio1 [~ThePlague@host234-115-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:17:24 -!- cicciopasticcio1 [~ThePlague@host234-115-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 17:35:27 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:13 -!- wingo [~wingo@AMontsouris-551-1-52-116.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:03 fschwidom [~fschwidom@92.117.9.144] has joined #scheme 17:52:33 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:53:39 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:01 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 18:06:29 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:55 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-3.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:15:26 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:18:56 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@92.117.9.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:08 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:32:48 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 18:40:49 dnolen [davidnolen@nat/google/x-anbslzpgdqdnnorj] has joined #scheme 18:44:08 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:19 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:46:24 What 18:46:41 -!- pierreghz [~pierreghz@cust-82-25-111-94.dyn.as47377.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:46:41 Where 18:46:43 What's the built-in(top-level?) environment that one can pass to eval in scheme? 18:46:52 depends on the scheme. 18:46:53 hit enter instead of apostrophe 18:47:16 I use eval so rarely that I don't know any of the details. 18:47:22 Let's see if our friend rudybot will shed some light 18:47:31 rudybot: (eval '(cons 1 2)) 18:47:32 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 18:47:32 *offby1: ; Value: (1 . 2) 18:47:33 hm 18:47:37 -!- certainty [~david@port-11904.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:47:40 rudybot: (eval '(define x 2)) 18:47:40 *offby1: Done. 18:47:48 rudybot: (eval 'x) 18:47:48 *offby1: ; Value: 2 18:47:50 hm 18:47:53 viller [~chatzilla@26.217.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:47:57 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:47:57 apparently in racket you don't need any such thing 18:48:11 rudybot: x 18:48:11 *offby1: ; Value: 2 18:48:21 does anyone know how to eval the whole buffer in geiser? 18:48:24 rudybot: I don't believe you 18:48:24 *offby1: My solution is to start rcirc from *scratch* which is always in my home directory. What you need right now is code that walks through all your ERC buffers and sets the current directory to your home directory, I think. 18:48:37 apart from selection everything and evaling the region 18:48:48 viller: C-c C-a does something like "enter module"; that might do it 18:48:58 (eval (+ 1 2) (interaction-environment)) 18:48:58 3 18:50:58 offby1 that kind of works 18:51:09 why doesn't geiser have a basic thing like that 18:51:15 f8l [~f8l@213-238-96-124.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 18:51:25 mit + xscheme.el is better 18:51:42 viller: I wouldn't be surprised if we're both overlooking something 18:54:47 certainty [~david@port-17956.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #scheme 18:56:13 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-197.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:06 pierreghz [~pierreghz@cust-190-95-111-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:18 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:00:31 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:31 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 19:03:14 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:30 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-197.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:04:53 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:04 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 19:13:09 -!- viller [~chatzilla@26.217.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085652]] 19:14:56 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:18 offby1, rff: racket supplies (current-namespace) as the default second argument to eval 19:19:24 kokonero [kokonero@caj3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 19:19:39 -!- kamyzi`e [~polann@unaffiliated/polann] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:20:29 I dimly remembered something like that. 19:20:35 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-197.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:21 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-197.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:31:50 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:37:38 dnolen_ [davidnolen@nat/google/x-zglgbnpkonnikbrc] has joined #scheme 19:39:10 -!- dnolen [davidnolen@nat/google/x-anbslzpgdqdnnorj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:11 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 19:45:47 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:05:20 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.155] has joined #scheme 20:06:14 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:06:17 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:18 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 20:09:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-187.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:18:07 pon1980 [~pon1980@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 20:25:45 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 20:30:13 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:13 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:45:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 20:51:06 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-18-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:58:12 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:58:41 Boo(m)! 20:59:28 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 21:03:04 -!- imphasing|home [~Alex@97-81-115-30.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:04:34 welcome back 21:04:55 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:17 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 21:08:19 rudybot: who had 'guy fawkes day' in the 'when will riastradh return' pool? 21:08:20 ijp: I'd prefer if it actually parsed the whole document and know which chuncks of letters represented a symbol or number, etc. 21:09:02 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-255-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:25 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-182-68-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:12 *offby1* stares blankly 21:15:16 oh, that utterance must have been _from_ Riastradh. Thought I fixed that bug. 21:16:13 I didn't utter that. I'd never misspell `chunks' as `chuncks'. 21:17:14 hmm 21:18:01 stranger still, it was said _to_ you. 21:18:28 Might have been arcfide. 21:18:46 Armageddon00 2010-02-01T22:29:11Z 21:18:49 *shrug* 21:19:23 I haven't the foggiest idea what the conversation might have been about or what relation it might have had to blowing up Parliament. 21:34:05 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:07 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:42:46 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:44:52 lol @ijp 21:58:17 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-182-68-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:03:17 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-168-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:04:46 masm [~masm@bl19-168-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:08:10 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-115-30.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:08:21 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:09:31 -!- dnolen [davidnolen@nat/google/x-zglgbnpkonnikbrc] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:11:40 Alas, Tom Keith is no more. 22:15:55 Riastradh: welcome back to the channel. people have been constantly speculating on your whereabouts.. 22:16:10 Riastradh: i.e. "you were missed" 22:21:50 Hi. 22:22:08 What exciting ideas were speculated? 22:32:11 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 22:32:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:27 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:38:23 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:07 Riastradh: I'll let others answer that as it would have been over my head anyway :< 22:42:27 Riastradh: but while you were away I discovered your style guide and enjoyed it. I guess cky might have cited it. 22:42:47 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:29 I think the most common idea was that you'd got a job or started some kind of academic term, which meant that you had something better to do with your life that hang out on IRC. 22:43:37 That's not terribly exciting though, really. 22:44:10 s/life that/life than/ 22:45:41 I think you guys can speculate something more exciting than that. 22:45:46 samth_ [~samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:46:28 There probably were some more outlandish speculations too, but I can't remember any at the moment. 22:47:37 qu1j0t3, glad to hear it. 'Fraid I'm not likely to complete it; except for corrections of typos, it is probably frozen in its current state. 22:52:18 Riastradh: I think it's quite useful in its current state! 22:54:06 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:02 -!- samth_ [~samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:59:40 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:00:13 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 23:01:08 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 23:05:09 -!- kokonero [kokonero@caj3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 23:05:38 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:05:49 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:10:13 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:45 -!- f8l [~f8l@213-238-96-124.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:13:09 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:14:10 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:38 -!- jrslepak_ [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-76-112-35-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:07 tupi [~david@189.119.204.97] has joined #scheme 23:28:31 -!- _p4bl0 [~user@berthold.shebang.ws] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:04 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 23:31:30 -!- pjb is now known as Guest43247 23:32:16 -!- Guest43247 is now known as pjb` 23:32:32 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 23:48:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-76-112-35-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-76-112-35-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:54:21 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:22 zmv [~zmv@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme