00:00:59 coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:02:16 -!- jld [jld@westworld.xlerb.net] has left #scheme 00:12:20 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:13:08 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:16:52 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 00:17:38 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:15 azathoth99: chibi 00:23:27 PicoLisp: The Scalpel of Programming A Radical Approach to Software Development 00:23:28 If some programming languages claim to be the "Swiss Army Knife of Programming", then PicoLisp may well be called the "Scalpel of Programming": Sharp, accurate, small and lightweight, but also dangerous in the hand of the inexperienced. 00:23:28 Less is more! - The maxim is: Keep it simple, and the programmer in control! 00:23:28 Why PicoLisp? Short answer: Because PicoLisp has two characteristic features, which are not found to that extent in other languages: An integrated database Equivalence of code and data These two features, and how they are used in combination, make it worth to take a closer look at PicoLisp. Besides this, PicoLisp is a very simple and succinct, yet expressive language. And it is free (MIT/X11 License). 00:23:28 Integrated Database Database functionality is built into the core of the language. PicoLisp is a database query and manipulation language. 00:23:28 Database entities are first class objects. They are called "external symbols", because they are automatically fetched from database files when accessed, but otherwise behave like normal symbols. 00:23:28 This fetching from external files is completely transparent, the symbols "are just there", and there is no need (or even a function) to read or write them explicitly. Pilog (a built-in Prolog engine) is used as a query language. 00:23:29 It is possible with PicoLisp to build large multi-user databases, distributed across many machines or in a cloud. Such a database system can be optimally fine-tuned, because all its levels are under the developer's control. 00:23:29 Equivalence of Code and Data This is actually a feature of Lisp in general. However, PicoLisp really lives it. It makes it easy to write things like the HTML, PostScript or TeX libraries, exploring a syntax of nested function calls. This results in very succinct and precisely expressed programs. 00:23:30 For a closer explanation, see the article The Equivalence of Code and Data. 00:23:30 Expressiveness PicoLisp is a very expressive language. Programs are often much shorter and concise than equivalent programs written in other languages. 00:23:31 Examples of various programming tasks and their solutions can be found at rosettacode.org. 00:23:31 Efficiency PicoLisp uses (at least when compared to other Lisps) very little memory, on disk as well as in memory (heap space). 00:23:32 For example, the installation size in the OpenWRT distribution is only 575 kB (uncompressed), where the statically linked interpreter with 296 kB takes the largest part. Yet, it includes the full runtime system with interpreter, database, HTTP server, XHTML and JavaScript application framework, watchdog, and the debugger, PostScript and XML libraries. 00:23:55 Wow, pastespam. 00:24:30 sorry bout adat 00:24:33 http://synthcode.com/scheme/chibi/ this was meant 00:24:37 chiibi looks intersting 00:28:37 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-pvyngdxeyjphvwyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:53 http://i.imgur.com/nZ1QT.jpg 00:31:51 -!- joyfulgirl is now known as testing 00:32:00 -!- testing is now known as joyfulgirl 00:46:48 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:47:01 -!- blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: blackened] 00:48:02 picolisp is dynamically scoped, which for the most part is a huge pain in the ass 00:48:46 any advantages you may think it possesses are usually outweighed by the surprising behaviors it produces 00:49:32 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@71.249.142.141] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:02:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has joined #scheme 01:05:23 turbofail: yeah i got the same impression, though i've never tried to use it. 01:05:31 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [] 01:07:47 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 01:07:58 rudybot: later tell jcowan LISP 1.5 had caar et al. ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/pub/free/develop/lisp/lisp15-0.0.2.tar.gz 01:07:58 minion: memo for jcowan: pjb- told me to tell you: LISP 1.5 had caar et al. ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/pub/free/develop/lisp/lisp15-0.0.2.tar.gz 01:11:33 pjb-: minion is no more, by the way. 01:12:41 tell that to rudybot. I thought that it would do the job itself, but it's as lazy as any other bot. 01:17:58 incubot: Later tell rudybot, "minion is no more." 01:18:06 chatting later) 01:18:30 Jesus. 01:21:26 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:00 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:37:52 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:46:19 -!- rimmjob [~king@adsl-108-207-193-192.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:49:57 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 12wks 2days 13hrs 23mins 35secs] 01:55:39 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:24 X-Scale` [email@89.180.128.169] has joined #scheme 02:15:01 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:33 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 02:25:31 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:49 minion was mccarthy?! o_O 02:33:33 Who knew? 02:43:58 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:45:00 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:45:55 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:47:15 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:05:05 no way 03:07:12 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:09:56 *offby1* pats rudybot on the head 03:10:01 takes after 'is dad, 'e does 03:10:24 Gormless. 03:12:15 -!- MadMuppet006 [~MadMuppet@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:35 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:17:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has joined #scheme 03:19:17 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:19:33 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:19:40 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:38 djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:55 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:22 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 03:27:29 djanatyn [~djanatyn@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 03:28:49 Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:33:44 http://synthcode.com/scheme/chibi/ hmmm 03:36:50 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:56 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:38:26 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:50:46 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:51:03 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 03:55:38 turon [~turon@choplifter.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:56:37 karlito [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:59:43 -!- kniu [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:01:30 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 04:05:04 pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has joined #scheme 04:05:12 _pyro_ [~pyro@zhaozhou.dcollins.info] has joined #scheme 04:16:37 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:18:56 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 04:20:25 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:27 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:20:27 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:20:58 coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:22:22 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:30:45 samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-odrsdejtxhznnlvi] has joined #scheme 04:47:59 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:00:35 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 05:00:37 Hey peeps 05:01:00 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:01:39 -!- Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?] 05:02:30 -!- Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:02:30 Hey. 05:07:36 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:12:59 Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 05:13:53 What's up CKY? 05:13:56 long time no see, man 05:14:11 :) I'm on the phone so I'll be pretty unresponsive.\ 05:16:29 *offby1* just learned about McCarthy now :-| 05:16:37 :-) 05:16:41 @elderK 05:16:44 :-( @offby1 05:17:18 bad week. 05:17:19 kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:17:26 Jobs and Dennis Ritchie. 05:18:04 Aye, aye. 05:18:34 Aye 05:18:38 I care more for DMR. 05:18:49 Read a bunch of his ol' papers. 05:19:35 elderK: You care more for dmr than McCarthy, is that what you meant? 05:19:53 'cuz that may not the best opinion to hold on this channel. ;-) 05:19:54 I care for DMR and McCarthy more than I care for Jobs. 05:20:00 Right. True. 05:20:14 as for DMR and McCarthy, they're both Gods in my eyes. 05:20:26 Quite. 05:20:32 My view is polytheistic rather than monotheist. 05:20:33 :) 05:20:58 Pondering implementation of Scheme with reader macros right now. 05:21:01 Grarh. 05:21:04 Anywho, how's life? 05:21:07 It's been ages! 05:21:10 I landed a job some time back, btw :) 05:21:13 Living in christchurch now. 05:21:14 Congrats! 05:21:20 ^_^ 05:21:27 Been working here since April. 05:21:31 Cool. :-) 05:21:37 Downside is that I h aven't done any personal coding since, really. 05:21:37 I've been working for my current place for 3 years now. 05:21:45 and I feel like my codetelligence is rotting. 05:21:49 :) Wow 05:21:54 It's good, lots of challenging performance things to solve. 05:22:12 Lucky :P 05:22:20 What kind of problems do you come up against? 05:23:07 Well, so, on occasion our system will hang because it ran out of memory (and the GC is going crazy), or waiting on a database that's locked up, etc. 05:23:18 You guys use Lisp there? 05:23:20 Finding out what the causes of those things, and fixing them, is a big part of my daily job. 05:23:21 or something else? 05:23:23 No, we use Ruby and Java. 05:23:30 Fun :) 05:23:34 I seem to be just another grunt. 05:23:36 :-) 05:23:40 Oh, yes? 05:23:42 Fixing bugs in a giant mess of code that's been maintained for like, 20 years. 05:23:53 tensive thousand line functions... 05:23:56 code duplication left and right, 05:24:03 extensive use of databases with the SQL all raw in the main p rogram. 05:24:07 No views, no stored procedures used. 05:24:09 Do you get to refactor much? If you can refactor stuff, then you can find passion in cleaning up the code. 05:24:18 Not really. 05:24:20 Otherwise, it's like a living hell. 05:24:22 yeah 05:24:24 Also, 05:24:26 zero documentation, anywhere. 05:24:28 None, period. 05:24:29 No commenting/ 05:24:31 Nothing. 05:24:33 No design... 05:24:38 Everything is so bad. 05:24:45 One file, 10,000ish lines 05:24:45 :-( 05:24:48 nothing but a single function with a giant if chain 05:24:51 about 40 levels of indentation 05:25:01 I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not. :( 05:25:07 Okay, so it's probably time to find new work, then. Or seriously ask management to put some effort into refactoring. 05:25:19 I had a project awhile back 05:25:25 Management forced me to use al ibrary they developed internally. 05:25:30 See, they're big on the .NET fad. 05:25:36 they thought that any program could be a library. 05:25:37 elderK: Sounds like you have a responsibility to pen a DailyWTF. 05:25:44 since you can load programs as assemblies. 05:26:03 so, I had to build a "backup" program using this other program as a base, a library, which it wasn't designed for. It swallowed all errors, everythin. 05:26:11 yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.110] has joined #scheme 05:26:16 spent weeks working aruond, ran over time, now I have to maintain this piece of shit I had to rigth myself. 05:26:21 And I've never felt more ashamed of my code in my life. 05:26:22 Period. 05:26:34 Yeah, you're working at the wrong place, then. 05:26:41 It's like, doing so many kludges to fix stupid fuckups in their code is taking it's toll on my mind. 05:26:44 *its 05:27:05 Basically, I'm hanging in there for refernces. 05:27:06 *references. 05:27:11 It's not worth it. 05:27:14 I got a stern talking to for using function pointers... 05:27:19 and references in C++ 05:27:23 A place you don't want to work for, is a place you don't want references from. 05:27:36 Ie, so I wouldn't have to keep typing TDeviceRealTerminal::Instance().DBControl.ID 05:27:49 TDBTransaction &tr = TDeviceRealTerminal::Instance(); 05:27:58 they have 200 character lines.. 05:28:11 but aye. 05:28:15 and it provides a living. 05:28:19 Make 35000 a year... 05:28:22 started at 33k$ 05:28:23 !!!! 05:28:28 Okay. Truth time. 05:28:32 Aye? 05:28:39 My first programming job, straight out of university, paid me $40k. 05:28:51 By the time I left, 3 years later, it was at $52k. 05:29:04 Not the best wages even by NZ standards, but better than what you're listing. 05:29:11 Aye. 05:30:18 elderK: So you're in a crappy job that's underpaying you. That can't work. 05:30:35 Other than keep l ooking for new jobs, there doesn't seem to be much I can do. 05:30:53 Then look for new jobs. But with more seriousness. :-) 05:31:00 Seriousness? :) 05:31:14 Yes. Hard to explain in a sentence. 05:31:24 Next tiem I get an interview, I'm going to ask more questions about their processes, that's for sure. 05:31:29 I mean, we use Borland RADSTudio 05:31:31 Embarcadero now. 05:31:33 It crashes constantly. 05:31:38 Hehehehehe. 05:31:39 The COMPILER crashes constantly. 05:31:43 Seriously, it's horrible. 05:31:50 On top of that, there's no real makefile system 05:31:53 or automated build system. 05:31:59 just a batch file... 05:32:14 and several programs are developed in older versions of Borland C++ Builder that don't run on newer OSes 05:32:15 so... 05:32:22 we have to load VMs to work on the older stuff that's still shipped. 05:32:30 (in the latest product releases) 05:32:34 and my manager, my immediate boss, 05:32:44 in a development meeting I explained the important of shared objects, libraries. 05:32:48 "I don't see the use in the overhead" 05:32:49 and it's like... 05:32:53 you've got to be fucking shitting me. 05:32:59 *elderK* stops ranting 05:33:00 Sorry. 05:33:14 A good workplace is one that doesn't constantly override their engineers without good reason. 05:33:22 If that doesn't describe your workplace, next. 05:33:36 The star program of the company was written by my boss in Delphi then in C++ 05:33:38 all by himself. 05:33:40 it's his baby. 05:33:44 heh 05:33:45 aye 05:33:59 almost every fucking class ends in "Manager" 05:34:18 and he tells me how function pointers and shit are code-smells. 05:34:35 and how my removing duplication is only adding complexity. 05:34:39 nice and simple, just copy an dpaste. 05:34:40 bla bla bla 05:34:43 anywho\ 05:34:45 I need a cigarette. 05:34:46 :)\ 05:34:48 Heh. 05:37:40 -!- yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.110] has quit [] 05:38:21 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:38:58 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:38:58 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 05:40:08 elderK: No, you need a new job. Cigarettes are bad for your health. 05:40:41 Aye. 05:41:52 stelleg_ [442395ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.35.149.236] has joined #scheme 05:42:54 noob question: how to use a quasiquote like `((X 0) (Y 1)) as let bindings? 05:43:53 stelleg_: you cannot, it's not designed for that. 05:44:20 stelleg_: quasiquote is designed to generate some data. A let binding is some code. 05:44:35 You could write a macro, and generate the let binding there, using the quasiquote. 05:44:59 pjb-: alright, I'll look into that 05:45:02 pjb-: thanks 05:45:29 stelleg_: What're you trying to do, anyway? 05:46:45 cky: pass a list of bindings as an argument explicitly 05:47:16 seemed like the quasiquotes would be a good fit 05:47:18 stelleg_: Let's step a level up: why do you want to do _that_? 05:47:37 stelleg_: (I'm going to go "5 whys" on you until I get to the real thing you're trying to do.) 05:47:44 cky: :) 05:49:10 cky: I'm trying to build a recursive evaluator, so I was going to pass the list of bindings through each recursive call 05:49:40 Well, your evaluator won't be using the host "let", will it? It operates on a different level. :-) 05:49:56 So you will need to implement a "let" for your evaluator, and for that, you can make it support taking your list of bindings, if you like. 05:50:30 good point 05:50:46 I guess I thought it would be a good intermediary step 05:50:56 to make it work with the built in let 05:50:56 Nah, it'll be all pain and no gain. ;-) 05:51:01 haha 05:51:37 my friend is a lisp addict and has alwas told me how easy it is to go back and forth between "data" and "code" 05:51:45 so I was hoping to get a taste of that in this case 05:52:02 always* 05:54:01 yep 05:55:28 your evaluator will also need to look up variables in something that's not its own lexical scope 05:56:14 but you can list a list that looks a bit like a let binding to represent a set of variables -- see ASSOC 05:56:21 stelleg_: I would advise you to read LiSP: Lisp in Small Pieces. 05:57:38 stelleg_: basically, (your-eval '(+ 2 3)) <-- (+ 2 3) is code. But inside your-eval, it's data. 05:58:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:58:19 pjb-: thanks, I'll check that out 05:58:56 It presents 9 scheme implementations, from the simpliest interpreter to the most sophisticated compiler. 05:59:06 sweet 06:05:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:39 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #scheme 06:24:19 confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:28:59 frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:13 -!- frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:18 frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:48:49 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-94-226.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 06:53:35 Hey, cky 06:53:46 any chance we can talk about Lisp implementation? :) 06:54:01 I'm working, but I can probably answer a thing or two. 06:54:30 Ah, okay :) 06:54:33 Well, reader macros. 06:55:01 The reader knows how to read by executing functions in the dispatch table, or whatever 06:55:14 but reader macros can also invoke read with the recursive-p argument true. 06:55:15 the thing is, 06:55:36 does the compiler take action to ensure that the process ends up being iterative rather than recursive? 06:55:39 like, blowing stack style? 06:56:25 because, implementation-wise, the recursiveness of it is hard for my mind to tackle. Not because I don't get recursion but because I can't see a way to make it iterative here. Reader macros calling the reader which could call the macro again and the like. 06:56:28 kniu [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:56:40 It's not iterative, in such cases. 06:56:40 unless the compiler's reader keeps a stack itself and stuf 06:56:42 *stuff 06:56:43 Is that a problem? 06:56:44 really? 06:56:50 Just surprise me. 06:57:07 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 06:58:18 Really? 06:58:59 well, kind of. 06:59:02 are scheme macroes in any way inferior to common lisp macroes? paul graham mentions some tidbit about such that disturbs me 06:59:10 Also, cky, 06:59:17 in the implementation of something like syntax-case or syntax-rules 06:59:28 That doesn't, at least to my mind, suffer from that same recursiveness doom. 06:59:36 -!- karlito [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:43 azathoth99: Depends on which Scheme macro system you're talking about. 06:59:43 since, couldn't we expand the template - then read the output from teh template? 06:59:49 and if needed, re-expand 07:00:00 azathoth99: syntax-rules is very restricted. You will need another macro system to use alongside it if you want to do complicated things. 07:00:18 azathoth99: The most commonly-used two (AFAIK) are syntax-case and explicit renaming. 07:00:19 like syntax-case? 07:00:23 or er-macros 07:00:33 Either will do. :-) 07:01:24 elderK: Hmmmm. Re expanding and re-expanding. 07:01:55 :) See, I wanted to make a scheme compiler agaes ago 07:02:01 and did a bunch of research, if you recall. 07:02:06 mostly on lexing and the like, macro systems. 07:02:17 but, still much to be pondered :) 07:02:29 like, my initial idea was to use a giant DFA to do the lexing and reading and such 07:02:37 which could be redefined at runtime. 07:03:10 as for expanding over and over, 07:03:17 I mean, like, 07:03:27 a macro that expands to something that includes a call of the macro itself. 07:03:38 kind of say like cond having a cond inside of it, if the cond was a macro 07:06:03 It's too late in the day for me to think very hard on, but, I'll let the idea sit on my thoughts and see if it's possible to determine whether it's iterative or not. 07:06:57 :) thanks 07:07:05 and hey, I appreciate you even giving me whatever time you could 07:07:07 :) thank you 07:07:22 :-) 07:08:49 so syntax-rules and syntax-case combined can do even complex macro stuff? 07:09:42 is it possible for a process to be both iterative and recursive? 07:09:44 azathoth99: syntax-case alone can do everything syntax-rules can and more. 07:10:04 or to start out iterative and end up recursive? 07:10:26 azathoth99: In fact, syntax-rules can be implemented as a syntax-case macro. 07:10:57 http://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Macros ah it seems chicken uses syntax-rules and explicit renaming 07:11:17 syntax-rules can be implemented as an explicit-renaming macros too. :-) 07:11:39 ah so syntax-case kinda of repalces syntax-rules and does not need explicit renaming? 07:11:51 woa 07:11:57 I feel kinda uneducated her elol 07:11:59 here lol 07:12:45 what are some scheme that have syntax-case? is explicit renaming beter or worse that syntax-case? 07:13:02 That's a partisan topic, the last question. :-) 07:13:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:15 Implementations that use explicit renaming include Chicken and Chibi. 07:13:24 Implementations that use syntax-case include Racket, Chez, and Guile. 07:13:34 Oh, MIT Scheme uses explicit renaming also. 07:15:18 azathoth99: Here's an example of something you can use syntax-case for but not syntax-rules: quote. 07:16:33 frhodes: well... 07:16:44 generally, if a function chain becomes recursive, it is by definition recursive :p 07:16:52 it's not iterative if it degenerates to recursion 07:16:56 ok but both work? 07:17:06 rudybot: (define-syntax (my-quote stx) (syntax-case stx () ((_ x) #'(syntax->datum #'x)))) 07:17:06 cky: Done. 07:17:13 rudybot: (my-quote foo) 07:17:13 cky: ; Value: foo 07:17:21 rudybot: (my-quote (foo bar baz)) 07:17:21 cky: ; Value: (foo bar baz) 07:17:39 rubybot: (display 'foo!) 07:17:40 ok next lame question, I know, I am slacker and havent read as much as I should: htdp or sicp? 07:18:06 rudybot: (display 'yarrrrr!) 07:18:07 elderK: your sandbox is ready 07:18:07 elderK: ; stdout: "yarrrrr!" 07:18:10 hehehee 07:18:18 azathoth99: Read both. :-) 07:18:19 both, azathoth99 07:18:21 read everything you can 07:18:26 Jinx! 07:18:26 and play more than you read. 07:18:29 heh 07:18:34 Great minds think alike, cky 07:18:34 :)_ 07:18:45 ok 07:18:53 and what scheme shall I use? 07:19:01 chicken seems cool 07:19:05 I dunno 07:19:14 I noticed it stays r5 not r6 07:19:16 I use chicken 07:19:22 it's great and the community is fantastic. 07:19:23 but generally, 07:19:29 use whatever is easiest for you. 07:19:36 I am ignorant 07:19:36 R5RS is still widespread. 07:19:39 so all hard for me 07:19:44 then start with chicken 07:19:46 I started with Chicken 07:19:48 and really, you can't go wrong. 07:19:49 ok 07:20:06 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 07:20:06 chicken is r5rs, the community is good, they can help you 07:20:10 they're friendly and nice. 07:20:11 :) 07:20:22 and most of all, fun 07:20:22 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #scheme 07:20:35 -!- frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:20:54 azathoth99: http://www.scheme.com/tspl3/ 07:20:54 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:21:08 azathoth99: https://gustavus.edu/+max/concrete-abstractions.html 07:22:17 ah yes I think the dyvbig book was r6 in the newest so I was liek hmm 07:22:18 what now 07:22:23 this oen is the r5 versin eh 07:22:37 Yes, elderK linked you the R5RS version on purpose. 07:22:57 I knew it! 07:22:57 Afaik, the wider scheme community is still split on r6. 07:23:01 R5RS and R6RS are very different languages. 07:23:03 is that still the case, cky? 07:23:18 Lately, I've been really fighting between CL and Scheme 07:23:21 r6 let me guess is syntax-case 07:23:21 Well, I think now it's more like the R7RS supporters vs the R7RS detractors. ;-) 07:23:34 aye, azathoth99 07:23:42 but scheme is flexible enough to let you use syntax-case in r5. 07:23:48 chicken allows this if you wish 07:23:59 although I can't remember how it does so, you'd have to ask in #chicken 07:24:01 damn 07:24:07 ok I gota read read read 07:24:18 Scheme is a language in which you can easily do whatever you want, provided you spend the time. 07:24:22 and provided you learn. 07:24:27 the weird thing, you see, 07:24:38 is that many of the things that seem incomprehensibly difficult are actually intensely simple. 07:24:45 it just takes you ages to realize :P\ 07:24:57 www.prevayler.org I want a scheme version of this with something like seaside as web interface 07:24:58 the light bulb of learning! 07:25:08 ha ha 07:25:14 I have had many many light bulbs 07:25:18 well 07:25:19 in my education 07:25:20 get writing. 07:25:27 which I never let school interfre with 07:25:54 as for me, so many habits of C which die realyl, really fucking hard. 07:25:58 like true and false being 0 and 1. :P 07:26:03 and being able to exploit that 07:26:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:26:28 just realize that scheme isn't just another language, wel,l lisp isn't just another language 07:26:37 it's also a mindset you have to adjust to, if you want to use it to its best. 07:26:39 right, cky? 07:26:57 also, you might find this useful: 07:26:57 http://jabberwocky.sourceforge.net/ 07:27:00 I have onyl dabbled with common lisp forth scheme 07:27:08 Well, that's the case with any language really, but more so with Lisp and the like. 07:27:10 er, my bad 07:27:11 it's for CL 07:27:13 I got work done at work with tcl and bash 07:27:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has joined #scheme 07:27:42 btw, cky 07:27:43 ok here is an example of something I had to do: 07:27:45 on the iterative reader thing, 07:27:52 I had an idea a few days ago, 07:27:59 but all it does is shunt more responsibility and shit to the compiler. 07:28:02 cisco file dump of all networks and gateways 07:28:17 pick out all networks and gateways while removing 0.0.0.0 and other junk 07:28:23 2000 lines 07:28:43 would you do that in chicken? 07:28:48 sure 07:29:00 I noticed irregexp 07:29:21 i'd use whatever scheme 07:29:23 I used Guile for a time 07:29:41 -!- stelleg_ [442395ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.35.149.236] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:29:58 I miss UNIX for working with Scheme 07:30:07 I'm a Vi user so I use GNU Screen linked to Vi to do the REPL stuff 07:30:09 *sighs* 07:30:14 I could learn Emacs, could. 07:30:24 I wonder if it'd mean I could do all the nice REPLy "send to the REPL" stuff in Windows. 07:30:37 I'd hope so. 07:31:07 vi si for me 07:31:11 emacs too work much 07:31:13 cky, any advice on how to grow past the pointer love of C, when trying to move fully to Scheme? 07:31:25 What are you missing? 07:31:26 it's only too much work because we aren't familiar with it. 07:31:29 well, 07:31:40 I'd say the "poweR" but that's not the right word. 07:31:44 I guess convenience. 07:31:54 being able to say, keep a pointer of something, say, a pointer to a pointer 07:32:05 then set that to point to something else, change structures and stuff that way. 07:32:14 Can't realyl pull an idea from the top of my head. 07:32:17 You can do similar with boxes, though; you just can't do pointer arithmetic. 07:32:27 is it worth doing it with boxes though? 07:32:34 is it not kind of shoehorning stuff into scheme? 07:32:38 ie, wrong approach? 07:33:11 Boxes are often appropriate if you need an extra level of indirection. 07:33:40 :) May need to find out more about them\ 07:33:47 Are they simply closures over some field? 07:34:07 For fun I'd like to write a little ADT library, to try and grow my skill 07:34:09 No, think of a one-element struct. 07:34:09 havgen't scheme in AGES. 07:34:20 hm 07:40:27 -!- _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:40:46 I wish I could patch things up with peter bex 07:40:53 I must have pissed him off 07:41:01 sigh 07:41:10 I think his work is excellent 07:41:32 He's here on-channel, you realise. 07:41:41 Okay, maybe not right now. 07:41:43 But in general. 07:42:04 I sent question about updating eggs to amiling list, and he said im a troll and pest and pubic svc etc 07:42:09 :( 07:42:18 mailing list of chicken 07:42:32 ah well best i go read and not bother people 07:43:55 Wish I could patch things up 07:46:18 jeez 07:46:21 what'd you say to piss him off so much/' 07:46:25 I mean, Peter rules. 07:46:35 Usually, when someone calls you a troll, it's because you've broken some major social norms, on multiple occasions. 07:46:43 aye 07:46:49 You need to identify what those norms are, and stop breaking them. 07:46:52 broken the status quo, as it were. 07:47:41 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 07:48:49 -!- mithos28 [~eric@99-113-32-54.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mithos28] 07:49:49 azathoth99: Let me ask you point blank: are you Gavino? Your IP address sometimes looks a lot like his. 07:50:19 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:52:57 btw, cky, what's your "path to lisp/scheme"? 07:53:01 Man, I missed IRC. 07:53:21 elderK: R. :-P 07:53:42 elderK: So, I was a stats graduate back in the day. My honours project was to implement a new serialisation format for R objects. 07:53:54 (The stats department I studied at was the birthplace of R.) 07:54:35 Ross Ihaka was my supervisor, and he was explaining to me that under the covers (which had to be S-compatible, thus the ugly syntax), everything is internally like Scheme. Cons cells, etc. 07:54:35 -!- azathoth99 is now known as gavino 07:54:37 yes 07:55:26 gavino: So, one thing you should already know is that you're referred to as a troll not just on lists, but openly in the channel, etc. Again, remember what I said about social norms. 07:55:28 I want to be cool with people. 07:55:39 I don't think Schemers care about being cool. 07:55:43 They just want to code Scheme. 07:55:51 Amen to that. 07:56:04 And have a nice community to chat in, about scheme and all kinds of things. 07:56:07 Learn, share ideas. 07:56:41 gavino: Nobody on this channel adopts quite so many different guises as you, for example. 07:57:23 I think one of the social norms here is that people don't wear masks, they present themselves as they are. 07:58:15 well its kind of a problem since my basic nick si banned from liek 7 channels 07:58:24 Why? 07:58:26 but I shall be quiet 07:58:42 Um, you know, you need to figure out why you get banned that way. 07:58:45 I ask too many questions, and am overly defensive. 07:58:48 It's not for frivolous reasons. 07:59:08 Okay. So you need to stop doing that. Scheme channels are not for personal musings, and I've seen many of your comments of that nature. 07:59:26 Okay, for regulars here, sure, some musings are fine (I <3 klutometis's musings). 07:59:39 But...they have a very different character to the kind of musings you have. 08:00:51 gavino: Also, stop getting in the middle of partisan topics. 08:00:59 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-odrsdejtxhznnlvi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:01:17 gavino: Like, the whole R5RS vs R6RS thing, it's a long-fought topic, there's no need to draw fire in your direction by getting in the middle of it. 08:01:46 Survey: EoPL vs. LiSP? 08:01:53 gavino: I get the feeling that you are looking for attention. The Scheme community is the wrong place to look for it. 08:02:12 klutometis: I've read neither, but have heard good things about both. Hmm. 08:02:35 klutometis: what's your opinion on them? 08:04:37 cky: Ihaka, by the way; and did your serialization stuff ever make it into core? 08:05:38 klutometis: It did, but eventually a newer serialisation system was created, years down the line. 08:05:40 elderK: None yet: LiSP looks messy and rigorous; EoPL looks clean but narrow. 08:06:17 You've got the general idea, really. 08:06:19 I found the same. 08:06:24 But, I'm also kind of biased. 08:06:30 klutometis: (My honours project was done, what, 12 years ago.) 08:06:31 I dislike Quiennecs writing. 08:06:50 Oh oh oh! You didn't finish your road to lisp story cky! 08:06:51 :) 08:06:58 cky: Fantastic; Hadley and I have been trying to get Roxygen into core for years now. Core doesn't budge easily; but it sounds like you had connections. ;) 08:07:11 klutometis: Also, re "Ihaka, by the way", did I miswrite his name somehow? 08:07:18 klutometis: Or maybe I misread that comment. 08:07:30 klutometis: Ah, I see. 08:07:45 klutometis: (Re connections.) 08:07:48 cky: Sorry: that was the first question; bad placement of semicolon. 08:08:13 :-) 08:09:17 elderK: Unless you're reading the original French, you're probably disliking his translator's English. 08:10:17 aye 08:10:18 tjat 08:10:23 *that's true, klutometis 08:11:57 And the with EoPL, apparently there's a controversy as to whether the 2nd or 3rd edition is better. 08:12:12 Anyway, didn't mean to interrupt a good road to lisp story. 08:13:50 I've finished telling the story. 08:14:07 cky: Did they live happily ever after? 08:14:20 foof: I guess you could say so. 08:15:38 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 08:16:27 elderK: I mean, what's more to say? I got introduced to Scheme through R, years later I started playing with it more seriously, and the rest is history. :-P 08:17:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:17:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has joined #scheme 08:18:54 heh 08:18:57 "the rest is history" 08:18:58 :) nice 08:19:02 It's a little bit uncanny, by the way, writing C-bindings in R and seeing all the SEXP-macros. 08:19:15 Makes me nostalgic for an R-implementation I never knew. 08:19:49 *klutometis* thought about writing a Scheme wrapper around R; hasn't bothered yet, though. 08:20:00 It may not be worth it. 08:20:43 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 08:28:19 -!- gavino [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:45 masm [~masm@bl15-130-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:41:40 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.128.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:59 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:31 andyjpb [~andyjpb@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 08:57:14 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #scheme 09:04:44 gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #scheme 09:07:36 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:16 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:21:46 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ytvfwcaarmwnujrl] has joined #scheme 09:29:27 samth [~samth@12.232.236.2] has joined #scheme 09:36:26 -!- fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:38:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 09:39:33 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:58 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 09:42:21 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:04 -!- gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:50:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:09 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:57:40 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x___x] 09:58:00 -!- samth [~samth@12.232.236.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:08 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 09:58:10 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-fwuoygkswwrbgxpr] has joined #scheme 09:58:14 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-fwuoygkswwrbgxpr] has quit [Changing host] 09:58:14 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 10:08:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has joined #scheme 10:13:44 fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has joined #scheme 10:37:05 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 10:38:58 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:35 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 10:44:14 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:12 _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 11:00:39 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ytvfwcaarmwnujrl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:55 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-elxkmwccvbcdinjx] has joined #scheme 11:05:33 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:24:06 kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 11:26:52 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:29:17 -!- pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has quit [Quit: gute nacht] 11:29:38 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 11:30:34 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-elxkmwccvbcdinjx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:51 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uffnenvtqlpmxmcp] has joined #scheme 11:40:50 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x___x] 11:53:56 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@unaffiliated/alcuadrado] has joined #scheme 11:56:41 karlito [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:25 Does #scheme have any thoughts about Church: http://projects.csail.mit.edu/church/wiki/Church ? 11:59:36 -!- kniu [~karl@pool-108-17-80-180.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:41 I've come into contact with it a couple of times now, it looks interesting 12:11:38 Like, you were walking downtown, and they offered you a free personality test? 12:12:21 Something like that. :-) 12:12:34 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:13:25 First, I heard someone talking about it on IRC, and then I met a PhD student here who's just about to teach a course about it in Germany with Andreas Stuhlmüller :-o 12:14:08 He was impressed that I'd heard of it; apparently I was the first person he'd ever met who had. :-P 12:19:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 12:25:35 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 12:28:26 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:24 eli: nice paper for scheme2011 workshop, good explainations 12:31:12 eli: however fluid-let-syntax was extended/contrained in psyntax (not sure about Chez) not to be able to mutate a syntax binding unless it was defined with define-fluid-syntax. From what I can see, this is exactly the same as syntax parameters in Racket. 12:31:43 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 12:31:54 eli: usage example @ http://eval.ironscheme.net/?id=12 12:32:58 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 12:45:30 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uffnenvtqlpmxmcp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:30 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:34 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-pzyohecaqovkcizj] has joined #scheme 12:54:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:56:01 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:58:16 gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #scheme 13:00:12 -!- gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:00:32 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:00:42 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 13:00:45 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:50 gavino [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:03:47 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:10 djcb_ [djcb@nat/nokia/x-hwnlbnbmfsvvvqxu] has joined #scheme 13:04:10 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-pzyohecaqovkcizj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:09 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:08:08 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 13:08:13 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.219.169] has joined #scheme 13:13:43 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:37 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:47 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:21:17 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-94-226.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:25:07 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:30:37 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:06 azop [curt@warped.bluecherry.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:41 -!- azop [curt@warped.bluecherry.net] has left #scheme 13:36:50 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:08 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 13:47:24 tupi [~david@177.30.73.161] has joined #scheme 13:55:39 metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has joined #scheme 13:58:54 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:00:01 -!- djcb_ [djcb@nat/nokia/x-hwnlbnbmfsvvvqxu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:17 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uncqnwlwstnywqfq] has joined #scheme 14:03:04 -!- gavino [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:14:48 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:50 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:47 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:32:54 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:30 -!- confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:50 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:38:22 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 14:42:54 sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has joined #scheme 14:43:02 hello all! 14:43:31 what scheme implementation would you use to create a simple text editor in the style of vim (but much simpler)? 14:43:48 so far im using chicken scheme.. im coming from ruby, and the tdd world where rspec is cherished. 14:45:35 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:47:42 sdegutis: dont do it! writing a text editor takes 5 years off your lifespan 14:51:49 thats fine, i dont plan on getting far. 14:52:05 just enough to be able to do basic key movements and modify a buffer, maybe save/open 14:52:27 i was kind of surprised that there was no list-insert in chicken scheme or any of its eggs 14:53:14 i wrote one myself that was recursive and used cons every time, it was pretty inefficient. then i rewrote it to modify the existing list and it only uses list-tail once, set-cdr! once, and most of the time also set-car! 14:53:28 but only the first version, this one is destructive 14:53:33 but *unlike 14:55:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.74] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:59:29 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:09 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@unaffiliated/alcuadrado] has left #scheme 15:05:25 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uncqnwlwstnywqfq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:40 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ayrlbcctqejsprfm] has joined #scheme 15:10:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 15:12:04 -!- sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:06 ijp [~user@host109-154-213-170.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:38:57 snizzo [9e6e2b02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.158.110.43.2] has joined #scheme 15:39:04 hello all! 15:39:15 how to cast string to integer? 15:39:44 e.g. "9" should become 9 15:40:07 "parse" is the word you are looking for. 15:40:08 rudybot: eval (string->number "9") 15:40:08 C-Keen: your sandbox is ready 15:40:08 C-Keen: ; Value: 9 15:41:58 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 15:48:27 C-Keen: \o/ 15:48:49 I hope I did not ruin someone's homework 15:49:01 wingo: does your psyntax have the define-fluid-syntax addition? 15:49:31 *ijp* wants to know too 15:51:05 leppie: i don't think it does 15:51:11 wingo: I only ask, as that chap that was porting syntax-parse was using fluid-let (yes, I can taste it) 15:51:14 i should fix that! 15:51:17 haha 15:51:57 wingo: you should be you have so beautifully rewritten psyntax to use syntax-case 15:52:05 s/be/but/ 15:52:46 what? :) 15:54:31 I noted the psyntax code uses syntax-case and not syntax-match like it does in Ikarus (it could be that the reference to psyntax in the syntax-parse attempt is outdated by now) 15:56:25 wingo: anyways, point is that it gives one syntax parameters in the Racket sense. http://eval.ironscheme.net/?id=12 15:58:25 -!- snizzo [9e6e2b02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.158.110.43.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:58:44 there is fluid-let-syntax but no define-fluid-syntax 15:58:55 wingo: that is as per eli's paper @ http://scheme2011.ucombinator.org/papers/Barzilay2011.pdf giving the shortcomings of fluid-let-syntax descibed in Chez 15:59:12 wingo: it was a later addition by Aziz 16:00:27 not sure if it went into chez ever 16:01:24 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ayrlbcctqejsprfm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:38 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ofmspttcpvkjalvv] has joined #scheme 16:06:14 yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.118] has joined #scheme 16:06:43 -!- yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:26 yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.118] has joined #scheme 16:09:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-240.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:13:09 samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-munqxdfatfqjcczd] has joined #scheme 16:15:47 -!- andyjpb [~andyjpb@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:20 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:24:26 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 16:30:10 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:52 -!- yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.118] has quit [] 16:31:29 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:32:16 samth 16:32:20 -!- tupi [~david@177.30.73.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:26 your nick says you are at djangocon 16:32:26 wingo, hi 16:32:28 you get around! 16:32:30 ? 16:32:42 that's very odd -- i'm at splash 16:32:48 * samth (~samth@conference/djangocon/x-munqxdfatfqjcczd) has joined #scheme 16:32:54 heh, that is odd :) 16:33:55 Note to all attendees: your normal programming has been replaced by a conference on web frameworks. Please excuse the misunderstanding. 16:38:43 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-ofmspttcpvkjalvv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:01 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-jlmmzhyykktxgnhn] has joined #scheme 16:41:19 Bitch, moan, gripe. Pure-functional (monadic) style in Scheme quickly turns into a twisty maze of little higher-order functions, all different. 16:42:06 I'm just about to lift a whole raft of functions I wrote into something approximating a state monad. Hope I get them all in short order. 16:42:32 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:43:47 tonyg: Throw it up on e.g. github when you're done? 16:44:52 klutometis: the code is already there: https://github.com/tonyg/racket-ssh/blob/master/ssh-session.rkt - see in particular definition of run-ssh-session near the bottom. All those event handlers are about to get lifted. 16:44:58 Maybe after lunch. 16:45:28 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:45:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:30 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:45:43 Actually thinking about it, if I do this right, it'll make the code a bit nicer. 16:45:54 So perhaps it's a win even though I'm going to end up higher-order up the wazoo 16:46:15 tupi [~david@189.67.216.3] has joined #scheme 16:53:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:54:42 coderdad [~coderdad@ip-64-134-146-96.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 16:56:34 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:00:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-101.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:01:07 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-101.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:04:58 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-munqxdfatfqjcczd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:39 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-jlmmzhyykktxgnhn] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:37:27 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:38:27 certainty|work [~david@port-4313.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #scheme 17:39:34 -!- certainty|work is now known as certainty 17:41:05 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 17:42:40 -!- tupi [~david@189.67.216.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:42:55 choas [~lars@p5792CC8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:55 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip-64-134-146-96.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:52:07 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:34 Riviera [~Riviera@gateway/tor-sasl/riviera] has joined #scheme 18:00:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:02:17 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:08:16 djcb [~user@a88-112-255-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:08:31 samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-rhkgnhxxifdinrff] has joined #scheme 18:11:07 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 18:11:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-84.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:21 tupi [~david@189.119.209.54] has joined #scheme 18:19:21 sskniranjan [~sskniranj@49.202.100.203] has joined #scheme 18:20:44 hm, sskniranjan was looking for a handy download link for HTDP, for off-line reading -- is there such a thing ? 18:21:03 *ski* didn't find any on a quick look around 18:21:48 ski_ 10xx 18:21:54 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-rhkgnhxxifdinrff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:22:59 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 18:28:48 ijp` [~user@host31-53-125-66.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:30:24 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-213-170.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:23 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 18:35:49 samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-teutziyzndomaldh] has joined #scheme 18:36:16 ski: try wget? 18:38:53 ski: yes, wget produces a usable file tree for local browsing. 18:39:16 ski: sskniranjan $ wget -np -r -pr http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 18:41:16 oh, right 18:41:19 *ski* didn't think of that 18:41:31 *qu1j0t3* just tested it 18:46:01 Belaf [~campedel@3-254.197-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 19:00:07 confab [~win7@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme 19:07:47 -!- copumpkin is now known as amphitheater 19:09:13 -!- amphitheater is now known as copumpkin 19:17:26 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-teutziyzndomaldh] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:21:24 -!- tupi [~david@189.119.209.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:31 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 19:25:17 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 19:31:36 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.219.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:32:16 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.219.169] has joined #scheme 19:34:13 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:36:19 Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:27 sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has joined #scheme 19:39:36 whats your favorite implementation of scheme and why? 19:40:15 if you would stay online long enough to collect the answers it might not be necessary to ask the same question all over again 19:40:27 :) 19:40:34 ill stay on for 2 hours 19:40:36 deal? 19:41:20 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:44:06 it's not a very worthwhile question in my opinion 19:47:53 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 19:50:00 im trying to decide which one to use for a vim-like simple text editor (using ncurses) 19:50:09 ive decided i want to go with scheme instead of CL 19:50:23 but i dont know the viable choices 19:51:34 pick one you've heard of, and just get started. if it sucks move onto the next one 19:52:23 Yeah, well, let me tell you it's not mit-scheme 19:52:25 arguing over which scheme is best is a waste of time usually 19:55:03 sdegutis: Chicken; reasonably fast, great FFI, sufficient libraries for production work. 19:55:27 If you're doing SICP, though, why not cut your teeth on GNU/MIT? 19:55:29 Downside: named chicken 19:55:43 -!- sskniranjan [~sskniranj@49.202.100.203] has left #scheme 19:56:13 Giomancer: Heh; true. IT had to suppress giggles when I told them to deploy. 19:56:41 =/ 19:56:43 klutometis:heh, what did you tell them? "Release the chickens!" ? 19:56:50 ! 19:57:01 Loose the Chicken! 19:57:14 chicks on speed 19:57:26 $ chicken-status 19:57:29 not flying 19:57:45 ..they glide, though 19:57:58 I think the record is over 150 feet 19:58:05 Something like that 19:58:27 C-Keen: Something along the lines of: "Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the chickens of lambda." 19:58:42 ..that works. 19:58:54 klutometis: sounds great 20:01:43 Giomancer: welcome to the chicken house 20:01:54 Not yet 20:02:09 I still have a deep fryer standing by 20:02:25 no food jokes ;) 20:02:51 Chickens are food. =/ 20:05:33 indeed 20:05:35 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 20:05:47 sdegutis: maybe you should start by checking what scheme implementations provide what your app requires. That will probably give you a small set, assuming your app is a practical one. 20:05:53 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:55 E.g., if you don't want to rely on the jvm, you can exclude sisc and kawa. 20:08:48 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:26 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 20:09:28 samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-jmmkqdneblpdwnxj] has joined #scheme 20:10:09 You can exclude some implementations by license, for example, if that is an important aspect. 20:11:34 I think it is hard to distinguish implementations of a language if you don't know the language. So you might as well toss a coin or pick the one with the logo you like best 20:12:18 -!- Belaf [~campedel@3-254.197-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:35 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:54 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:18:23 C-Keen: That's a good point, actually; reminds me of advice I got upon taking the LSAT: "Don't know whether to take pro or contra on the essay? Flip a coin: you're a fucking proto-lawyer!" 20:22:03 heh 20:22:19 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 20:22:35 klutometis: that's all true 20:23:46 klutometis: actually this possibly forces you out of your usual argument chain and take a position you might not agree with, which can be an interesting experiment 20:27:35 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:01 -!- sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:38 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:44:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:45:57 -!- ijp [~user@host31-53-125-66.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 20:48:10 -!- certainty [~david@port-4313.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:42 C-Keen: Aristotle advocated this, I learned recently :) 20:52:06 qu1j0t3: No shit: citation? 20:57:18 klutometis: "Rhetoric" 21:00:16 klutometis: here, i quoted it (pardon the typos): http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2011-October/306375.html 21:01:13 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:01 copumpki_ [~pumpkin@17.45.135.26] has joined #scheme 21:04:27 frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 21:06:45 -!- copumpki_ is now known as copumpkin_ 21:06:46 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:06:48 -!- copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin 21:06:49 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.26] has quit [Changing host] 21:06:49 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:06:57 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:07:07 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:07:07 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 21:12:52 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:13:55 -!- frhodes [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:10 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:20:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-240.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:10 Am I crazy for wanting a `map' where I can specify a new base list a la (define (new-map f b ls) (fold (lambda (x xs) (cons (f x) xs)) b ls)? 21:33:29 (for/fold ([l b]) ([x ls]) (cons (f x) l)) 21:35:11 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:35:49 copumpki_ [~pumpkin@17.45.135.26] has joined #scheme 21:37:44 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:38:00 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:32 Razz [~tim@kompiler.org] has joined #scheme 21:43:25 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:47 Hi, I'm relatively new to scheme but am trying to find out the size in cons-cells of a program that is generated using a partial evaluator, any way I can find that out? 21:45:24 -!- copumpki_ is now known as copumpkin 21:45:31 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.26] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:31 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:49:37 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:58:46 -!- choas [~lars@p5792CC8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:24 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:47 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:04:25 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:18 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:09:01 -!- samth [~samth@conference/djangocon/x-jmmkqdneblpdwnxj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:25 -!- confab [~win7@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:12 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:19:17 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:52 kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:43:58 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x___x] 22:49:26 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-130-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:29 rudybot: init r6rs 22:54:30 wingo: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 22:54:34 hee hee 22:54:38 rudybot: init 22:54:38 wingo: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 22:54:42 rudybot: init racket 22:54:42 wingo: your sandbox is ready 22:54:56 rudybot: eval (integer? +nan.0) 22:54:57 wingo: ; Value: #f 23:02:54 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:43 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:58 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:07:03 I've got a function (list-and pred l) that takes a function and a list, and returns true if the function returns true for all elements in the list (short cutting evaluation); 23:07:10 and similarly (list-or pred l) 23:07:24 Does that exist already somewhere? 23:08:37 (Under another name or argument order is fine, too; I'm worried using new "terminology" when unnecessary.) 23:08:59 there's "every" in srfi-1 23:09:21 "every" and "any" 23:10:16 srfi-1 has a lot of good stuff, as it turns out 23:10:32 Stupid, how could I miss those? 23:10:40 Yes I know and I *did* check srfi before writing the above. 23:13:00 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:13:28 Thanks for pointing it out, turbofail. 23:13:52 np 23:18:04 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 23:24:21 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-200.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-200.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:31:22 Oh yeah 23:31:39 Another reason their damn installer is crap: 23:31:56 If I move the exe to where I want it, it fails to run 23:34:28 Now here's the test: Let's see if I can compile Chicken. 23:36:10 ..but god, I really really really can't look myself in the mirror and say "Oh, yeah, I've got Chicken compiling in the background." 23:36:16 Razz : sounds strange -- i suppose you could walk the tree and count 23:45:18 Giomancer: why is that the fault of hte installer? it seems like maybe the reason they *use* an installer. 23:45:55 To compensate for their failure to write a program properly? 23:46:01 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:46:10 Oh, wow, what a great idea! 23:46:28 kvda [~kvda@124-149-101-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:46:36 ... 23:46:45 What! 23:46:49 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:06 what's the nature of hte failure when you move the EXE from where the installer puts it? 23:47:13 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:47:23 (noting that there are a large number of dependent files in an mit-scheme installation.. where are they?) 23:47:29 The failure is that they use an installer at all 23:47:45 i thought the problem was that the EXE wouldn't run. 23:47:50 *qu1j0t3* doesn't see how the installer is implicated here 23:48:03 what was the nature of the failure when you move the EXE? 23:48:14 The installer puts the exe where I don't want it 23:48:26 Then 23:48:38 if I move it, makes the program not run 23:48:47 yes, how? 23:48:53 I don't know! 23:49:05 what's the symptom? 23:49:20 It says it can't find all.com 23:49:39 Which is the same relative position is was pre-move 23:49:40 right, there are a large number of dependent files. do you know where they get installed? 23:49:52 relative position. so the bug could be rather simple. 23:49:57 i'm sure they'd welcome feedback 23:50:16 Stop defending them. 23:50:21 i'm not defending them. 23:50:22 D: 23:50:23 read back. 23:50:30 How far? 23:50:31 xD 23:50:39 not a single defence. but it's a bit tiring to hear "i did this and it doesn't work". just move on. 23:50:40 You want me to tuen Chicken 23:50:45 no. 23:50:47 lol 23:50:56 Nah, you're right 23:51:02 you should just get on with the main job, which was studying sicp, right? 23:51:22 there's also the idea of not using windows, but i have bad news: there are standard installation locations on unix too. 23:51:37 Under usr, though, no? 23:51:38 however there are package managers, which really saves you most of this grief. 23:51:44 Yeah. :( 23:51:49 Giomancer: yeah, /usr/bin on a typical managed system. 23:51:59 i don't know how you'll cope when stuff just works :D 23:52:06 I'll die 23:52:10 :) 23:52:13 *Giomancer* thump 23:52:13 try it you might like it! 23:52:26 I have, and I do 23:52:27 *qu1j0t3* lieks it when stuff works. $ csi 23:52:39 Giomancer: happens I did a source install 23:52:40 $ which csi 23:52:42 /usr/local/bin/csi 23:52:54 Giomancer: but on linux i'd be using a package manager. 23:53:03 samth [~samth@12.232.236.2] has joined #scheme 23:53:18 Oh, and by the way: 23:53:25 Giomancer: you need to look up "yak shaving" some time. 23:53:31 Giomancer: i believe it comes from MIT too... 23:53:40 To build CHICKEN from git you'll need a recent working version of CHICKEN. In case you don't have one, get the release tarball, build and install it. For more information, see README's "Bootstrapping" section. 23:53:51 Giomancer: use the binary then 23:53:59 Giomancer: you have a knack for making things hard :) 23:53:59 This sentence made me cry tears of happiness 23:54:20 Yes, yes I do. 23:55:24 But I was pointing out that the implication here is that if you want the bleeding edge, their stable source release is capable of bootstrapping into a binary. 23:55:41 yes, just as it says 23:55:43 (then you can use the repo) 23:55:50 this is exactly what MIT Scheme does 23:55:57 No it doesn't! 23:56:00 D: 23:56:04 it did when i tried to build it. 23:56:06 same process. 23:56:08 :( 23:56:11 install stable binary to bootstrap from source. 23:56:20 wait 23:56:22 no.. 23:56:22 but, let's put MIT Scheme behind us. 23:56:26 this is a new era! 23:56:30 lol 23:56:33 Giomancer: that's as I remember it. 23:56:56 I'm pretty sure chicken compiles a binary from source 23:57:04 Giomancer: so does MIT's makefile 23:57:15 Giomancer: but it needs an MIT Scheme binary as well 23:57:29 Giomancer: you installed one by extracting the stuff from the installer 23:57:35 But chicken only needs that already there binary for the repo 23:57:43 it's the same deal. 23:57:48 Well... 23:57:55 "install latest stable, then you can install from latest source" 23:57:55 Kinda but not really? 23:57:56 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:58:03 *qu1j0t3* doesn't see any difference. 23:58:06 what am i missing? 23:58:24 *Giomancer* shrugs 23:58:28 I got nothin 23:58:31 heh 23:58:35 well then. how's the compile going? 23:58:40 It's different to me, tho 23:58:44 why?> 23:58:48 Oh, right 23:59:01 I'm downloading, also poking around