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host] 11:53:58 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 11:55:27 jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-40-95.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:56:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-193-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:43 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:24 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:04:19 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-236-182.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 12:09:24 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 12:10:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:12:12 stamourv: require'ing the generated primitives file yields the following error: 12:12:12 compiler/gen.primitives.rkt:3:30: application: missing argument expression after keyword at: #:unspecified-result in: (#%app define-primitive #%sleep 1 0 #:unspecified-result) 12:13:24 or, maybe anyone here knows the answer: I have a racket file which (defines-syntax), and then (requires "some-other-file"). looks like the macro isn't available in required one 12:19:00 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:23:57 whitequark: this is how it should be 12:24:35 denisw: I'm autogenerating the file which should undergo the macro substitution. Is there anything like #include in C? 12:24:42 if you need to defined syntax, you need the file you are requiring right now to require the file with the syntax, not the other way around 12:25:59 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:24 denisw: still getting the same error 12:27:27 whitequark, you could open the file and use "read" and "eval" 12:27:45 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:55 whitequark, could you show me the code? (or a small test case) 12:31:33 whitequark: or wait, try to just substitute (require ..) with (load ..) 12:31:40 i think that does what you want 12:32:30 denisw: thanks, indeed it is 12:32:32 *does 12:32:47 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 12:34:11 whitequark, this is because "load" uses "eval", which resolves all identifiers relative to the current envrionment at runtime 12:34:45 "require" evaluates everything in a fresh environment, i guess 12:43:15 okay, with this change, picobit/arm is largely finished: http://github.com/whitequark/picobit 12:43:25 *mostly 12:44:00 xissburg [~xissburg@187.50.13.57] has joined #scheme 12:46:59 whitequark, cool congratulations! :) 12:47:29 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:48:13 denisw: thanks! :) 12:48:58 it was mostly refactoring, but the diff is now three or five times larger than original code... and now it is time to add some arm-specific optimizations! 12:51:42 hehe 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whitequark: Do you have the file somewhere? 15:27:04 It should require the definition of the primitive DSL. 15:27:55 whitequark, denisw: In Racket, `load' and `eval' are rarely a good solution. 15:32:01 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:32:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:40:35 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:46:07 whitequark: I'm trying your changes out, and the compiler generates code that the VM doesn't like. 15:49:10 -!- twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:19 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 15:58:13 xwl [~user@194.100.69.130] has joined #scheme 15:59:25 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:02:25 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:03:11 -!- gravicappa 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[~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:22:24 djcb``` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:24:20 -!- djcb`` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:21 h3rfg [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 19:47:07 stamourv: here? 19:47:28 I'm finally testing the code (not just the VM), and looks like it won't even load the compiler 19:48:07 compiler/gen.primitives.rkt:1:0: compile: unbound identifier (and no #%app syntax transformer is bound) at: #%top-interaction in: (#%top-interaction module gen.primitives racket (#%module-begin (define-primitive #%sleep 1 0 #:unspecified-result) (define-primitive #%set-led! 1 1 #:unspecified-result) (define-primitive 2) (define-primitive #%gc-max-live 0 3) (define-primitive #%pair... 19:54:39 The file with primitive definitions is generated by running make -C vm. That is, before compiling the compiler. I should adjust the main makefile accordingly. 19:54:47 -!- h3rfg [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:56:11 djcb```` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:58:18 -!- djcb``` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:53 djcb````` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:59:53 -!- djcb```` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:03:59 whitequark: I have fixes for most of these. 20:04:35 I'm currently trying to fix the missing primitives. 20:04:51 I'll send you the patches I currently have. 20:05:36 -!- metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat [quit]] 20:06:53 stamourv: what ones are missing? 20:07:15 It's in the email. But basically, the continuation primitives and `#%halt'. 20:07:20 ah. 20:07:31 I've fixed the continuation primitives, but `#%halt' is tricky. 20:07:38 what's wrong with it? 20:08:01 With the old primitive system, `#%halt' just returned from `interpreter', which ended execution. 20:08:21 (I've removed the missing primitives unintentionally. I didn't tried to get rid of any of them, just for the record) 20:08:30 But now, since all primitives are in their own function, `#%halt' would only return from `prim_halt', and not from `interpreter'. 20:08:39 No worries, that's what I figured. 20:08:45 It was pretty easy to add them back in. 20:08:56 I'll then handle halt specially in the script, that's not hard at all 20:08:58 But I still have to find a solution for `#%halt'. 20:09:10 Ok, sounds good. 20:09:14 no changes to the compiler will be required 20:09:18 Great. 20:09:29 I'll send you the patch for the continuation primitives. 20:09:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:09:36 Sounds good. 20:11:54 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-205.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:12:05 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-205.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:14:15 whitequark: Sent. 20:14:19 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:44 Now, for the tests to run, I'll add the host-specific primitives to `arch/host'. 20:14:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:12 -!- woonie [~woonie@137.132.27.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:32 stamourv: Sure. I've been going to add them, but only went to home recently. 20:16:31 Ok, so should I do it, or should you do it? 20:17:47 -!- homie` is now known as homie 20:18:21 githogori [~githogori@220.sub-75-208-13.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 20:18:51 stamourv: I won't mind doing it, but you may want to get familiar with the changes. If you don't have time for that, fineI'll do. 20:19:03 Already doing it ;). 20:19:11 -!- wbooze` is now known as wbooze 20:19:31 Also, do you think your branch is at a point where it could be merged into the trunk? 20:19:36 (Once tests pass, of course.) 20:19:53 Yep, it is. 20:20:06 Good. 20:20:16 So once we fix that, I'll look into integrating it. 20:20:39 I've refactored practically every line of code, but didn't change much of the logic or optimizations. That's another task. 20:21:01 What are your plans? 20:21:59 I shall remember the purpose I've ever started this fork, at least. 20:23:22 Then, I'll write a blog article in English (and the Russian translation) about its inner workings, porting to another platforms and why would one ever want run Scheme on microcontrollers. 20:24:10 Sounds good. 20:24:47 (There are several other ones awaiting translation, so that may take up to a week, maybe.) 20:26:53 Then, I'll eventually get to implementing basic ARM optimizations, like 32-bit accesses, and do some profiling (another article on performance, although without Russian variant, I think) 20:27:31 32-bit accesses should make a lot of things much faster. 20:27:38 -!- djcb````` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:46 Yes, and they're not very difficult to implement. 20:29:13 (Now, if I blink the LED on my board without any delays, I can shake the board in air and see the dotted lines due to POV. That's not very fast, and delays due to GC are _huge_) 20:30:19 The very fact that environments accumulate through all the RAM and then get collected was quite sad for me. I think it's the room for another big optimization, through I may not be entirely correct. 20:31:16 (The ARM was running on like 8MHz, and the led was blinking with maybe 2kHz of frequency, if not much less.) 20:32:48 Afterwards, it would be clear for which classes of tasks picobit is applicable, and for which it isn't. 20:33:06 Right, there's probably ways to reduce allocation. 20:33:29 And the blinking LED program shouldn't allocate that much. 20:33:50 Could you send me your code, maybe the compiler is producing really bad code for it. 20:34:19 I'm currently getting it to run on my ARMI'll send it after I'll manage to do it. 20:35:48 It was something like (define (f v) (#%set-led v) (f (not v))) (f #t) 20:35:53 Maybe exactly this. 20:36:01 :O 20:36:06 what are you guys coding? 20:36:18 looks interesting, something embedded? 20:36:30 ohwow: a Scheme implementation for low-end ARMs, currently STM32, as that's what I have 20:36:46 cool 20:36:49 The port from PIC8 is almost finished. 20:36:56 ohwow: And also works on PIC18, where it was originally used. 20:37:20 (PIC8 as in 8-bit, not as in PIC16F series) 20:38:58 ohwow: http://github.com/whitequark/picobit 20:40:27 whitequark: Fixed the host primitives. 20:40:45 But now there's a bug somewhere in the VM. I'm investigating. 20:41:06 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-235.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:13 stamourv: Is there a line in your gen.primitives.rkt without a primitive name? 20:41:25 Mine has such a line. In fact, I've just fixed that bug. 20:41:27 Lemme see. 20:41:58 Nope, all good. 20:42:08 Did you apply the patches I sent you? 20:43:53 stamourv: Yes. That line was caused by a #ifdef at the end of gc.c; there is a PRIMITIVE word at end of it. 20:44:01 I wonder why didn't you get it. 20:44:11 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:45:07 My gc.c doesn't have that. 20:45:32 It was added in ba5c8b7. 20:45:45 Ah, I don't have that one. 20:45:51 Lemme pull. 20:47:59 -!- githogori [~githogori@220.sub-75-208-13.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:49:42 Now I get a similar problem with gen.dispatch.c. 20:49:56 stamourv: What's with it? 20:49:58 It refers to that primitive even if it's not turned on. 20:50:27 Oh. Looks like my system is fundamentally flawed, as it does not account for #ifdefs. 20:50:33 Right. 20:50:46 I know how to fix that, fortunately. 20:50:50 You probably want to pass the files through cpp before you give them to your awk scripts. 20:50:55 Yeah. 20:51:00 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 20:51:14 It will be a little tricky, through, as PRIMITIVE itself is a preprocessor macro. 20:51:21 Oh, good point. 20:51:37 But I can define another one to forbid expansion of it. 20:52:07 Or, you could put the gc_max_live primitive in another file, and have it be included conditionally in the makefile. 20:52:13 Besides that, I've pushed #%halt support. It was pretty trivial. 20:52:25 As is, if the config option is off, the awk scripts won't run on that file. 20:52:44 Yes, I can extract it to another file, but that's not very clean. Imagine what will happen if there would be more of these conditionally included primitives. 20:53:46 The whole refactoring was done to increase configurability while reducing (source code) bloat and confusion. Extracting every conditionally included primitive into a separate file pretty much contradicts that. 20:54:10 Good point. 20:54:28 But otherwise, you may need dirty cpp tricks, which are not great either. 20:55:06 stamourv: That's not dirty tricksit is actually pretty trivial. I just call cpp with -DNO_EXPAND_PRIMITIVES, and add one more #ifdef in my header. 20:55:34 Ok. 20:56:31 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:59:01 whitequark: Anyway, I have to go. I'll be on email for the weekend. 20:59:16 Oh. I just realized that I've screwed up Windows builds by including gawk as a dependency. 20:59:19 stamourv: Okay. 20:59:22 Once the tests pass, I'll merge your branch into the trunk. 20:59:32 Meh, we can do without windows. 20:59:38 Good then. 20:59:45 And it would probably be possible to rewrite these in Racket anyway. 20:59:59 So anyway, talk to you later. 21:03:30 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD606A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:56 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93E01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:07:49 rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:24 is there a reason the standard doesn't specify that vectors evaluate to themselves ? how does having to quote vectors make any more sense than having to quote numbers, strings, etc. ? 21:11:47 -!- xissburg [~xissburg@187.50.13.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:33 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c0ca.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 21:15:52 the same reason as lists? 21:16:37 It's probably to leave open the option to have vectors evaluate specially, like lists 21:16:51 So ijp's comment isn't nonsense :) 21:16:53 which, at a guess, would be because they can contain items which are not themselves self-quoting. This is not the case for strings/bytevectors 21:17:38 vectors are (afaik) the only non-atomic objects that have literal syntax 21:18:08 (aside from lists, of course :P) 21:22:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:46 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:48 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:21 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:23 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:36 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:59 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:29:28 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:56 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:30:17 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:27 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-145-183.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:30:35 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:58 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:36:23 anyone heard of "Better Scheme" ? http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jwalker/bscheme/spec/intro.html 21:45:36 whats the difference between better scheme and scheme? macros are first-class? 21:46:02 hmm, he didn't fix any of the things I would have 21:46:21 http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jwalker/bscheme/differences.html i guess this page is under construction 21:47:15 all values are functions, as in the lambda calculus. kind of scary 21:48:29 And slow too, I guess 21:48:38 Macros as first-class functions.. 21:51:11 apparently the spec is a copy of r5rs with certain modifications 21:51:24 -!- dfjklaaf [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:25 yeah, but no proper diff 21:51:29 And it's incomplete 21:51:56 Yet another uncompleted Lisper's project 21:55:03 by the way have you heard of Qi ? it's a language implemented and based on common lisp, with presumably the strongest type system out there (while type checking is optional), currying, pattern matching, etc.. a scheme version could be neat 21:55:22 I think , for eval as a dual of ' for quote is cute 21:57:57 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93E01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:58:07 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93E01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:58:56 I keep hearing about Qi this year 21:58:59 "The Shen project is building a $free successor to Qi that runs under Scheme and Javascript to appear in the summer of 2011." interesting 21:59:01 I thought it was a reaaly old project? 21:59:09 really* 21:59:22 Javascript?! 21:59:23 wtf 21:59:29 "A new version was reimplemented and issued as Qi II in November 2008." 21:59:42 what sucks (IMO) is that Qi II is not free software 22:00:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04E4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:00:36 yeah, that makes it uninteresting to me 22:00:45 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 22:00:51 And being a Lisp, that'll turn off half the people who might be interested in it 22:01:06 Meaning there's probably only a handful of people in the world considering using it at all ;) 22:01:30 indeed. someone should convince this Mr Trevor to make Shen free software, and re-libertize Qi 22:02:19 er, Tarver not Trevor 22:02:37 -!- erikano [~erikano@man.i.wish.i.had.an.irish.setter.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:02 Shen does use a semi-free license apparently, though Mr Tarver finds the GPL too restrictive and the BSD license too anarchic 22:07:20 *sjamaan* sighs 22:07:24 Never happy 22:07:30 "You can use the software in any way you like, make money and do as you will, and even change the source code and distribute it and charge for it provided that your changed version still works. That is, the behaviour of your Shen version corresponds exactly, not more or less, to the standards for Shen laid down in my website which are very much those of Qi." 22:07:55 that's a funny restriction 22:08:00 In other words "I am a megalomaniac bastard who wants total control. If you don't like it, piss off" 22:08:32 haha 22:08:51 erikano [~erikano@man.i.wish.i.had.an.irish.setter.co] has joined #scheme 22:09:02 here's the link by the way: http://www.lambdassociates.org/Shen/newappeal.htm 22:13:00 This whole lambdassociates site gives me this "quack" vibe 22:13:34 "buy this life-extending elixer for only $99.99 and I'll throw in a free stick of incense" 22:14:57 how big a stick? 22:15:23 Oh, you want to haggle! 22:15:55 This product is too good and so sharply priced, haggling is out of the question! 22:16:07 In fact, at this price, I'm stealing from myself! 22:16:44 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-235.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:04 this Mr Mark Tarver seems to lack insight into certain matters http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/the_problems_of_open_source.htm 22:27:23 many false facts, and uninsightful criticism of fundamentally subjective matters, unable to understand a different world view 22:27:58 dfjklaaf [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 22:30:15 yeah, it's a bit myopic 22:36:50 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93E01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:41:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:40 -!- soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:22 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:57:05 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:05:53 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:13 apparently he thinks all commercial software is sunshine and roses 23:17:28 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:28:13 Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined #scheme 23:30:36 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-145-183.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:02 -!- danly|work [~user@216.81.48.202.epikip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:40 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:47:14 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:42 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:48:55 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-140-66.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:11 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]