00:02:04 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:56 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire_] 00:08:47 smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 00:10:41 rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:16:02 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:17:32 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 00:28:04 -!- blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: blackened] 00:28:09 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77bf22.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:28:21 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdde7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:34 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:11 -!- YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-19-149.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:15 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-142-4.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:45:52 Say I do something like this: (define a #t) (define-syntax b (identifier-syntax a)). Is there anywhere that I can distinguish the B bound there from a B bound as (define b #t)? 00:46:50 rudybot: (define a @t) 00:46:50 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: @t in module: 'program 00:46:52 oops 00:46:52 Ah, with SET! if I'm not careful. 00:46:54 rudybot: (define a #t) 00:46:54 *offby1: Done. 00:46:59 rudybot: (define-syntax b (identifier-syntax a)) 00:47:00 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: identifier-syntax in module: 'program phase: 1 00:47:03 pff 00:48:47 Basically, I am trying to make a variable visible in two contexts, in such a way that you cannot tell that there are actually two contexts lying around. 00:52:05 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-37-213.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 00:55:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:44 ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-53-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:06:21 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:21 -!- ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-53-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:09:56 woonie [~woonie@spnp67030.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 01:13:03 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:16:07 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:20:17 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 01:21:45 -!- woonie [~woonie@spnp67030.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:46 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:02 mister_m [~mattosaur@216-80-123-91.c3-0.drb-ubr1.chi-drb.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:55 woonie [~woonie@spnp67030.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 01:48:14 ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-53-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1931] 01:52:11 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:33 -!- woonie [~woonie@spnp67030.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:06:32 rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:58 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:23 -!- rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Quit: rbuck gone away...] 02:26:00 hba [~hba@187.171.203.4] has joined #scheme 02:35:28 -!- ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-53-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:36:05 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 02:37:15 Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 02:37:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:07:58 aoeu [cb27de05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.39.222.5] has joined #scheme 03:11:09 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:34 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 03:11:51 hello people. is there a way in scheme to get a reference to a list cell? if i have a list '(A A2 C) where A2 points to A then modifying A i'd like A2 to also be changed. 03:12:10 define 'points to A' 03:12:16 like a C ref 03:12:21 or pointer 03:12:28 instead of a value of its own 03:14:23 since each cell points to an address basically i'd like A2's address to be the same as A's 03:14:38 (lambda (A C) (list A A C)) 03:14:47 Pretty sure this is covered by SICP 03:15:23 They're even called "box-pointer diagrams" 03:15:32 that just creates a new list, i want to modify one list cell and have another reflect the change also 03:15:48 i'll lookinto box-pointers 03:17:30 (lambda (list) (setcar! (cdr list) (car list))) 03:17:40 Perhaps you should look into SICP altogether. 03:23:44 bfig [~bfig@r186-48-199-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:27:23 that does not do what i asked for. the question is not how to copy values, the question is about how to reference values. 03:27:53 I'm not actually sure there is a way to create a C++-style transparent reference 03:28:28 Well, there isn't then. 03:28:39 in Racket, you can do this: 03:28:43 > (define b (box #f)) 03:28:43 > (define z (list b b)) 03:28:43 > (set-box! b #t) 03:28:43 > z 03:28:43 (#&#t #&#t) 03:28:51 but those are not transparent 03:28:55 Sure there is, elly. 03:29:04 Riastradh: how's that? 03:29:06 That's how all argument passing works in Scheme. 03:29:29 What C has that Scheme doesn't is pass-by-copy. 03:30:07 And what Scheme has that C doesn't have is objects whose identities are independent of their addresses. 03:30:23 rudybot: eval (begin (setf! a 1) (setf! b a) (setf! b 2) a) 03:30:23 Jafet: your sandbox is ready 03:30:23 Jafet: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: setf! in module: 'program 03:30:35 rudybot: eval (begin (define a 1) (define b a) (setf! b 2) a) 03:30:35 Jafet: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: setf! in module: 'program 03:30:41 rudybot: eval (begin (define a 1) (define b a) (set! b 2) a) 03:30:41 Jafet: ; Value: 1 03:31:33 I assume aoeu wants to replace set! by something that would make a take the value 2 03:31:43 Er, s/set!/define/ 03:31:45 indeed 03:32:13 and do so on list elements 03:32:15 There is no such thing in Scheme. 03:32:21 That's not very compatible with lisp tradition 03:33:15 no its not but tradition only goes so far 03:33:34 Tradition schmadition. It is essential to the semantic model of Lisp. 03:34:34 if a cell contains a reference to the next cell as well as a reference to the cell's value why can't i copy the value's reference into another cell's value reference? its elementary. 03:34:59 it may not be common but i dont see why its impossible 03:35:05 Riastradh is the right person to answer this question 03:35:12 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:38:43 If I understand you correctly, you're asking for spooky action at a distance in data structures. But perhaps you would be happier with a simple example of what I suspect you would be satisfied by: 03:38:47 rudybot: init r5rs 03:38:47 Riastradh: your r5rs sandbox is ready 03:39:05 Riastradh: i'm all ears 03:39:43 rudybot: (let () (define (f a c) (list a a c)) (let ((x (f (list 0) (list 2)))) (write x) (newline) (set-car! (car x) 'foo) (write x) (newline))) 03:39:43 Riastradh: ; stdout: "((0) (0) (2))\n((foo) (foo) (2))\n" 03:40:26 rreeves [~rreeves@static-50-53-77-35.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:59 -!- rreeves [~rreeves@static-50-53-77-35.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: rreeves] 03:41:40 jcowan [~John@p-69-195-55-114.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 03:43:48 In other words, you can build the mutability relations you want, but only if you choose to do so; by default they're not there. 03:45:41 The aesthetics of that seem a little like what one would get by building a subset of C that used macros and goto's to provide flow control without requiring the use of function definition: sure, you can do it, but it's pretty much missing the point. 03:45:57 *gnomon* shrugs 03:46:59 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:47:36 A very good evening to you, Riastradh! 03:47:53 I see that you have not yet been eaten by cats. Yay! 03:48:57 yea that's not at all what i'm after. lets say you have '(A B C AA BB CC) where AA is A by ref. I then modify A - whether using set-car or taking that element off the list and modifying it - and i want AA to also change to whatever A was changed to. what you suggest mimicks it on the surface but is at best confined to a regularity i cannot predict ahead of time. 03:49:30 aoeu, there is a fundamental difference between `modifying A' and `modifying the list with SET-CAR!'. 03:49:37 sure 03:49:46 but like i said either way it doesnt achieve what i want 03:50:30 I don't understand what you mean by `is at best confined to a regularity I cannot predict ahead of time'. 03:53:04 aoeu, have you read SRFI-17, perchance? Are you aware of the concept of generalized variables as they appear in Common Lisp? 03:53:26 Scheme guarantees that if (not (eq? a b)), then (car b) is invariant across (set-car! a x). This is an assumption you can rely on, or perhaps `predict ahead of time'. 03:58:13 the regularity i refer to is that your function, or any other for that matter, relies on copying the first value to the second or whatever other arrangement which is fixed when you right the function. a way around it would be to pass a parameter for the index of the value you want to copy and an index where you want to copy it to. but that requires knowing ahead of time both indexes. 03:58:34 i only want to be concerned with one index or element and by modifying it the other relevant element gets updated also automagically. 03:58:50 gnomon: nope haven't looked into it i will 04:00:40 i fully understand the scheme approach of immutability etc etc. and am greatful for it. but there has to be a way for what i want even if its somewhere deep in the guts of scheme or a particular implementation of scheme. 04:00:49 You Can't Do It. 04:01:36 Perhaps you should step back a moment and explain what problem you are trying to solve of which you believe this to be a subproblem. 04:02:44 If you're willing to rely on something that appears "deep in the guts of ... a particular implementation of scheme", aoeu, you're no longer programming in Scheme, you're merely pushing the rods and levers of a particular implementation - and if you're willing to do that, why not choose the set of rods and levers that will prove the least troublesome and most compatible with that approach, i.e. a non-Scheme solution? 04:03:13 Heh, I think Jafet, Riastradh and I all just expressed the same thought in three different ways. 04:03:22 Jafet: two possibilities: 1) you don't know, which is not the same as impossible. 2) it's impossible, in which case just saying so is pointless, you should give reasons why. 04:03:30 gnomon: i like to push things to their limits 04:03:35 Riastradh already explained why. 04:04:10 You know, single-minded people who treat irc as a write-only medium get annoying rather quicky. 04:04:21 gnomon: if it really does end up more effort then i'll surely switch. but at this stage i just started asking the question so i'm a long way off from deeming it too hard. 04:04:48 aoeu, Scheme guarantees that if (not (eq? a b)), then (set-car! a x) preserves (car b). Ergo, `impossible'. 04:05:18 aoeu, does your habit of pushing things to their limits imply that you have a kitchen littered with fractured casserole dishes, burnt-out blenders, and snapped wooden spoons? 04:09:44 No, that would be me. 04:10:15 You could change that guarantee, but then you would be substantially redesigning the language, and to derive a useful result you would have to reapply a large number of other constraints and desiderata. 04:11:41 Scheme even gives you an excellent toolkit for building such a different language, and SICP will teach you how to do so with a minimum of fuss by building a metacircular interpreter. 04:12:57 Riastradh: fair enough thanks for your input. i suspected as much but suspicions aren't worth much. 04:13:07 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:14:37 gnomon: yes except before embarking on something like i wanted to find out if there's a simpler solution. thanks again for the srfi pointer. 04:15:28 I was thinking yesterday about how to build (inefficient) locatives in Scheme, but of course they fall down on the issue of locatives to local variables. 04:16:12 (define (car-locative pair) (make-locative (lambda () (car pair)) (lambda (x) (set-car! pair x], &c.... 04:17:00 kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:18:01 Quite so. It's (make-locative x) that's the problem, unless you are willing to do a prepass over the entire code to figure out which variables are mutated and do assignment conversion on them. Which is outside the scope of Scheme macros. 04:18:38 (define-syntax variable-locative (syntax-rules () ((VARIABLE-LOCATIVE x) (MAKE-LOCATIVE (LAMBDA () x) (LAMBDA (X*) (SET! x X*] 04:18:40 all other commentary was useless at best and negative, insulting, hypocritical, arrogant and self-righteous on average. stick to the technical stuff and things which actually help people instead of passing judgement and offering your narrowminded opinions about someone you know nothing about. especially when you don't pay enough attention to they say, jumping to conclusions and forcing them to repeat themselves. 04:18:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:18:43 then maybe people won't have as much of a write-only attitude about irc. 04:19:06 adios 04:19:12 -!- aoeu [cb27de05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.39.222.5] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:19:15 HAH 04:19:39 We forced him to repeat himself, did we? 04:19:41 Well, that signoff was 100% in line with his behaviour in other fora. 04:20:11 Pity. 04:21:45 samisafish69 [~samisafis@c-71-202-149-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:22:10 -!- samisafish69 [~samisafis@c-71-202-149-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:26:08 -!- cdated [~fieldsb@ip70-160-25-156.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:28 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:31:07 -!- bokr [~ed@109.110.49.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:19 woonie [~woonie@s120098.pc.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 04:48:17 I'm reading about the "xor" macro in Alexandria, and I don't understand what someone would want it for. 04:49:01 It takes multiple arguments, and returns two values: one is either the value of the sole true argument, or #f if there is none. The second value is #t if all the arguments were evaluated, and #f if not. 04:49:46 In what circumstances would you want "xor" to short-circuit, and why would you care whether it has or not? 04:50:01 iuh [~ipuh@220-244-41-97.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 04:50:27 How can xor short-circuit? 04:50:50 In the case where it is known that more than one argument is true, we can stop looking at the others and return #f #f. 04:51:30 (Note that (xor a b c) is not (xor (xor a b) c), but a "conceptual extension" to two-argument xor. 04:51:56 Have you tried a Google Code Search, or asking the author? 04:52:02 Okay, that's a strange thing to call xor. 04:52:36 AFAICT, the authors of Alexandria are anonymous. 04:52:42 Though there is an editor. 04:52:58 What Alexandria is this? 04:53:28 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ 04:53:45 a collection of small convenient macros and functions, all in the public domain 04:53:49 or said to be so 04:54:42 What should I make my scheme file extensions? 04:54:51 scm 04:54:58 .scm, .ss 04:55:04 what's wrong with ss 04:55:15 jcowan, aren't there revision control logs saying who wrote what? 04:55:17 .i-am-r5rs-scheme-code-dont-touch-iuh-is-saving-me 04:55:22 Anything you want. If you are writing an R6RS library, .sls. 04:56:01 I'm sort of coming here 04:56:10 because I want to try scheme 04:56:20 I've been doing lisp for 3 days straight 04:56:23 like all day 04:56:26 learning 04:57:08 Riastradh: That particular patch is blamed on the editor, but it does not follow that he wrote it. 04:57:15 ("blamed" in the git sense) 04:57:32 Employ the transitivity of blame. 04:57:33 Nevertheless, you could ask him where it came from. 04:57:55 True. 05:00:04 Google Code Search is uninformative 05:01:37 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:02:42 soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #scheme 05:06:30 -!- soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:58 how does one debug in scheme 05:10:01 -!- bfig [~bfig@r186-48-199-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:37 -!- sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:37 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12:03 -!- docgnome [~docgnome@web169.webfaction.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:12:03 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:12:03 -!- malorie [~bla@unaffiliated/malorie] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:13:41 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #scheme 05:13:51 iuh: It depends on the specific Scheme implementation. 05:13:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 05:13:53 docgnome [~docgnome@web169.webfaction.com] has joined #scheme 05:14:13 But in general you can debug in the same way as in any language with a read-eval-print loop. 05:14:21 malorie [~bla@chello084112144105.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 05:14:29 Call procedures with different arguments and see what happens. 05:18:01 soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #scheme 05:18:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124498 05:18:44 Que? 05:19:14 You are referring to the variable "query", for which no definition is known. If you are going to define it, you can ignore the warning. 05:19:33 Oh, wait a minute. 05:19:39 That's supposed to be an argument 05:19:44 Your problem is that you are using defun instead of define. 05:19:52 Oh. 05:19:54 (define (find-vars query) ...) 05:22:01 sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 05:25:40 ;Unbound variable: endp 05:27:36 try 'null?'. endp and defun are common lisp 05:28:04 How do you check for an empty list? 05:28:11 null? is common? 05:28:34 null? is #t for () in scheme 05:28:51 #t ? 05:28:53 true 05:29:00 oh 05:29:51 *jcowan* would like to have "end?" in Scheme 05:30:27 not much trouble to define it yourself though :) 05:30:36 It's spelt NULL-LIST? in SRFI 1, jcowan. 05:31:11 ;Unbound variable: atom 05:31:12 :( 05:31:28 this isn't like common lisp at all 05:31:34 I thought it would be a subset 05:31:41 it is a different language 05:32:11 It is not at all a subset, nor the other way around. 05:33:23 Don't worry, scheme offers a complete refund (minus shipping) 05:36:18 How do you test for atoms?\ 05:36:24 Define `atom'. 05:36:28 besides a geiger counter 05:36:44 s-exp that is not a number 05:36:51 wait 05:36:53 sorry 05:36:57 s-exp and numbner 05:37:00 (not (number? x)) 05:37:04 (number? x) 05:37:07 Well, one of those two, anyway. 05:37:10 atom? 05:37:20 predicates have question marks? 05:37:28 iuh: Yes 05:37:29 yes. well most of them 05:37:41 By convention, predicates are named with question marks. 05:38:08 So there is no (atom? 05:38:12 No. 05:38:16 hmm 05:38:31 (define (atom? x) (not (pair? x))) gives you CL-equivalent behavior 05:39:06 At a certain point, the Scheme names for things were rationalized, whereas CL retains the old Lisp names, which come from a large variety of sources and aren't very consistent. 05:40:05 drwho [~chxane@c-68-80-208-32.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:39 Thus CL "atom" does not end in "p" because it goes back to the very beginnings of Lisp before the "p" convention was devised. 05:43:31 Hmm 05:43:34 And it begins with `atom' because it goes back to the very beginnings of Lisp before a sensible data model was devised. 05:43:38 Riastradh: If you use the reference implementation, then null-list? does the job, but it is valid to define it to mean simply null?. 05:44:11 #f is false? 05:44:22 you don't use T and NIL 05:46:47 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:47:10 Nope. "nil" is a random symbol with no meaning. #f is false, () is the empty list (and must be quoted) 05:47:49 Again, Common Lisp conflates the three, again, for pointless hysterical raisins. 05:50:50 ;Unbound variable: eq 05:50:52 Argh... 05:52:03 jackson [~jackson@76.73.16.26] has joined #scheme 05:52:11 -!- jackson is now known as Guest4363 05:52:29 we have eq? and equal? i don't know if one of them is like cl eq 05:52:29 -!- Guest4363 is now known as jackson- 05:52:33 hi. how compatible are various scheme implementations? if i write a lib for one is it likely to work on another? 05:52:40 Thomas Anderson wakes up. 05:53:24 jackson-: if you don't rely on non-portable features, sure. 05:53:44 ;Unbound variable: rest 05:53:46 oh wow... 05:54:23 iuh, it's not Common Lisp. 05:54:29 It's a different language. 05:54:45 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 05:54:46 If you typed C into your favourite Common Lisp REPL, it would get just as confused. 05:54:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:54:51 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:55:14 how hard would it be to port non-trivial application from one scheme to another? 05:56:33 how long is a piece of string? depends on what non standard extensions are used and how hard those extensions are to emulate 05:56:41 easy, until someone executes a branch of code that wasn't tested 05:56:49 i dont know which implementation to choose yet, and not sure how far fetching the choice will be. can i just swap from one to another while having most of my code work? 05:57:33 Can I put a ferrari endine in my toyota? 05:57:35 engine 05:57:42 similar question 06:00:13 -!- woonie [~woonie@s120098.pc.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:49 ok well I'll ask a more direct question. i can write a portable C++ code that uses sockets, threads, etc without too much issues, and it'll work cross platform and cross implementation. is it possible to do the same with scheme? 06:01:21 unlikely i think 06:01:35 which part, sockets, threads? 06:01:45 all of the above :p 06:02:04 There are probably concurrency and network SRFIs, and they are probably implemented by a few schemes. 06:04:07 ;Unbound variable: t 06:04:11 D'oh. 06:06:45 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 06:06:53 ;Unbound variable: remove-duplicates 06:07:11 hmm is there such a function in scheme? 06:07:51 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:08:14 which scheme are you using? 06:08:47 MIT/GNU Scheme running under GNU/Linux 06:08:59 Release 9.0.1 06:10:42 what scheme do you recommend? if crossplatform portability is important 06:11:05 ^ 06:11:32 unix, mac and windows 06:11:47 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:12:05 unless you want embedded scheme 06:12:10 if such a thing exists 06:12:24 I meant *nix mac windows 06:12:40 nothing esoteric 06:12:44 unix, mac and windows 06:12:57 embedded is modern 06:13:13 Pretty much all Schemes are portable to all modern platforms, with a few exceptions. 06:15:05 thevishy [~tnishant@203.123.174.162] has joined #scheme 06:15:18 which scheme implementation should i install for learning SICP material 06:17:27 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:20:58 dandellion_yello [~dandellio@178.88.82.102] has joined #scheme 06:21:47 Hi, I just went over chapter 9 of "The Little Schemer" three times already. 06:22:03 (set! tq (transformer '... 06:22:03 ;Unbound variable: tq 06:22:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-134-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:20 In all prev chapters, I could not only follow the exercises but deeply understand to the point that I could close the book & reproduce every & all the constructs. Not so lucky with chapter 9's y-combinator. 06:24:07 Was wondering is it same for everybody ? Or can like anyone come up with y-combinator by heart with pencil & paper ? 06:24:28 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 06:25:43 -!- cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:13 Any implementation of scheme would you recomend 06:30:12 dandellion_yello: I think most people have to think a bit when it comes to the Y 06:31:26 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.203.4] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:31:30 dandellion_yello: and there are a few different forms, mostly different in how lazy/strict they are I believe. 06:33:24 hkBst, comprehending something takes some discipline, no arguments about that. Just wondering, is the Y, something people get to see, remember it, frame it, put it on shelf and never think about it any more.... 06:33:54 dandellion_yello: the point of Y is to be able to do recursive function calls without further language support; all you need is lambda calculus and then through Y you get recursive calls... 06:36:17 dandellion_yello: I think it is one of those things that takes some time (years perhaps) to be able to use outside toy programs, so that's why I pay attention when someone who is able to use it effectively is talking. ;P 06:37:14 hkBst, you remind me of the p == np . It is easy to say what it does, having seen it. But it is hell a lot more difficult to come to that conclusion from scratch. But I was really wondering, how people like curry church turing and bunch of others came to think about this stuff... 06:38:57 heh, it was probably to prove some property of lambda calculus, as it usually goes in maths... 06:41:10 -!- vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:41:19 does scheme have a standard library? 06:41:37 . 06:41:49 vk0 [~vk@84.238.23.75] has joined #scheme 06:41:55 -!- jackson- is now known as grr 06:42:00 Every rnrs has a standard library. 06:42:06 There are also not-so-standard libraries 06:43:07 Jafet: anything involving networking? 06:45:53 -!- kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:56 No. 06:46:05 that is unfortunate 06:46:27 I imagine that could be managed with some C extensions 06:46:39 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46:58 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 06:47:59 kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 06:48:07 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire_] 06:49:37 One onerous, particular thing that was bothering me within the "little schemer" was this: At some point the text says, lets name that function like: ((lambda (mk-length) (mk-length eternity)). What does this syntax do ? 06:52:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:52:55 how do I use a debugger in scheme 06:53:25 dandellion_yello calls lambda, which calls passed function 06:55:45 woonie [~woonie@137.132.26.3] has joined #scheme 06:58:47 Is there something really wrong with this? 06:58:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124499 07:02:51 bokr [~ed@109.110.49.35] has joined #scheme 07:06:15 As I said, nil doesn't mean anything special in Scheme. You should return '() or #f as the case may be. 07:06:36 In this case, #f is probably the right thing. 07:08:02 schemers, please help out with comprehending lines 1,2,3 here : http://paste.ubuntu.com/683189 like what calls what in what order and with what gets passed 07:08:56 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:34 dandellion_yello: the first lambda calls the second lambda with eternity for its length argument, result is a function, the third lambda... 07:13:49 -!- Borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:56 hkBst, that is cool, and it makes sense... But what bothers me now is the THIS : mk-length . What does it denote ? 07:15:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:16:38 dandellion_yello: it is the name of the argument of the first lambda. When it is called with the second lambda as argument, in the first lambda's body, the second lambda will be bound to that name. 07:21:16 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:42:17 Needless to say, most Scheme code does not look like this. 07:47:26 is the second lambda is an argument to the expression that comes before it ? 07:48:16 dandellion_yello: yes 07:48:44 -!- iuh [~ipuh@220-244-41-97.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Hasta la vista, baby.] 07:48:55 hkBst, you know you are immensely helpful. I am still trying hard to comprehend it though. 07:49:41 dandellion_yello: as jcowan said, this is not what code usually looks like, so don't focus on it too much. 07:51:31 hkBst, understand it. But at this point it is very critical for me - I want to finish two chapters of this gem. And I won't make any further progress if I don't get this syntax. I am trying to formulate my questions. 07:53:40 dandellion_yello: do replacements from the outside ((lambda (mk) (mk et)) (lambda (len) (lambda (l) ...))) -> ((lambda (len) (lambda (l) ...) et) -> (lambda (l) ...) 07:53:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:51 (this is called "reduction") 07:54:14 It's very mechanical, so you must do it by hand a few times, and it'll become a second nature. 07:54:25 but aren't arguments NOT supposed to be surrounded by parenthesis ? 07:54:41 oh, they do, sorry ... 07:54:41 you read wrong 07:55:22 Axioplase, my last comment about parents was not about pseudocode that hkBst pasted 07:55:29 arguments can be surrounded by parens, if they are themselves things to apply/compute 07:56:05 so it is top bottom or bottom top ? 07:56:12 like who feeds whom 07:56:26 top down 07:56:47 err, well 07:57:11 (f (g h)) -> (f result1) -> result2 07:57:40 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 07:57:50 (g h) evals to result 1 in your example ? 07:57:51 but you don't reduce "under a lambda" 07:58:11 (g h) evals to "result1" (whatever this value is) 07:58:20 but not to (result1) right ? 07:58:27 right 07:58:52 but would it be syntactically same if you had (f result1) and (f (result1)) 07:58:58 no 07:59:02 oh shit :( 07:59:18 I need to think :) 07:59:26 "result1" is a value, "(result1)" is the value from the evaluation of result1" 07:59:50 even if result was an atom 07:59:51 ? 08:00:04 "Don't reduce under a lambda" means (lambda (x) (f (g h)) -NO-> (lambda (x) (f result1)) 08:00:06 (atom) is not equal to atom ? 08:00:22 -!- woonie [~woonie@137.132.26.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:00:51 that is one piece of puzzle in place, I guess. 08:00:54 rudybot: eval (define (f x) (if (procedure? x) 'it-s-a-function (list 'it-s-not-a-function-it-is x))) 08:00:54 Axioplase: your sandbox is ready 08:00:55 Axioplase: Done. 08:01:09 rudybot: eval (f (lambda () 42)) 08:01:09 Axioplase: ; Value: it-s-a-function 08:01:15 rudybot: eval (f ((lambda () 42))) 08:01:15 Axioplase: ; Value: (it-s-not-a-function-it-is 42) 08:01:21 dandellion_yello: (atom) means call the function atom without arguments, which is an error if atom is not a function 08:01:34 rudybot: eval (define g (lambda () 42)) 08:01:35 Axioplase: Done. 08:01:40 rudybot: eval (f g) 08:01:40 Axioplase: ; Value: it-s-a-function 08:01:43 rudybot: eval (f (g)) 08:01:44 Axioplase: ; Value: (it-s-not-a-function-it-is 42) 08:01:49 rudybot, shutup pls 08:01:49 dandellion_yello: pls refer to the paste, where i indicated the helper function 08:02:13 dandellion_yello: I'm showing you examples so that you understand! don't tell the bot to shut up! 08:02:26 oh, ok :) 08:02:49 woonie [~woonie@137.132.26.3] has joined #scheme 08:02:54 I m just trying to sift what you say, and this bot seems just to water down your comments :) 08:03:40 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 08:03:44 Hey guys? 08:03:53 hi 08:04:09 thanks, I need to "smoke" this page just a little :) 08:04:59 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:05:34 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 08:07:14 -!- drwho [~chxane@c-68-80-208-32.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:30 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #scheme 08:12:11 Axioplase, at what point ((lambda (mk-length) (mk-length eternity)) (lambda (length) (lambda (l) ... starts collapsing ? Is it the first lambda feeding eternity into second lambda as length argument (thanks hkBst ) 08:13:54 and then, in first lambda, can I name the mk-length anything else, like for example : ((lambda (mk-length-whaterver) (mk-length eternity)) (lambda (length) (lambda (l) ? 08:14:25 it would still be treated as a parameter, right, just a name 08:18:37 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 08:25:20 -!- jcowan [~John@p-69-195-55-114.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:25 hkBst, your comments were helpful ! 08:28:31 I got it 08:28:42 Axioplase, thank you too 08:29:01 -!- dandellion_yello [~dandellio@178.88.82.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:29:08 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has joined #scheme 08:31:54 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:39:59 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-179-142-217.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:24 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 08:46:24 siege [~siege@89.238.222.19] has joined #scheme 08:47:46 -!- siege [~siege@89.238.222.19] has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:16 -!- serban [~siege@unaffiliated/serban] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:02 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has joined #scheme 09:05:53 -!- woonie [~woonie@137.132.26.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:24:39 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 09:36:26 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:05 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-145-11.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:57:24 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:11:48 anyone have a nice strategy for testing code that uses modules? 11:12:15 where the test code needs access to private identifiers from other modules 11:12:35 -!- pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has left #scheme 11:13:29 in R6RS and R7RS, you can almost do it by creating (mymodule private) for every module. But you still have to explicitly export each identifier from that private module. 11:13:53 and it seems R7RS is not planning to add something like ALL-DEFINED-OUT from PLT :( 11:14:59 maybe i should just suck it up and write out all the identifiers 11:15:28 or make a nasty preprocessor :/ 11:27:47 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:36 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 11:32:21 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:41:58 rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:43:34 -!- grr [~jackson@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 11:43:47 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:56:55 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-142-104.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 12:01:49 -!- bokr [~ed@109.110.49.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:54 pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.250.224] has joined #scheme 12:07:27 -!- rff 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[~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:08:55 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:12:52 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 14:15:40 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:17:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.134.95] has joined #scheme 14:19:52 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:21:09 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:21:16 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-210-233.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:21:34 ijp [~user@host86-174-97-241.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:26:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 14:27:14 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:57 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:39:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.134.95] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:39:17 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:38 jimmy3987 [~chatzilla@ppp121-45-77-5.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:43 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:59 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:46:48 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:48:45 amoe: here is a way for psyntax-based systems: https://github.com/leppie/IronScheme/blob/master/IronScheme/IronScheme.Console/ironscheme/library-utils.sls 14:48:46 http://tinyurl.com/3veprlq 14:49:47 amoe: usage example: https://github.com/leppie/IronScheme/blob/master/IronScheme/IronScheme.Console/lib/ikarus.sls 14:49:48 http://tinyurl.com/3d9mqfr 14:58:04 samth [~samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:58:10 -!- pumpkin is now known as 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[~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:06 leppie: awesome! you are my new hero 15:19:11 aziz (author of ikarus) wrote it, not me :) 15:21:07 wingo: did the video from your talk go up anywhere yet? 15:21:56 congratulations on dealing with the general trainwreck of comments, btw 15:26:11 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 15:31:30 amoe: the fellow doing the video stuff is a debian developer, so the answer to that is "when it's ready" ;-) 15:31:34 not yet tho 15:31:44 thanks re comments, it has taken a bit of patience ;) 15:43:41 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 15:46:01 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:55:16 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:48 rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-140.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 16:07:09 -!- djcb [~djcb@nat/nokia/x-rsmvcesipcerfwio] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:12 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:18:34 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:36 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-83.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:23:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-83.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:26:46 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:29:40 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.250.224] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 16:35:12 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 16:39:11 danly|work [~user@216.81.48.202.epikip.net] has joined #scheme 16:50:36 HG` [~HG@p5DC04E1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:54:20 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-83-231.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:54:38 denisw [~denisw@dslb-188-103-181-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:54:50 -!- bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:55:53 hi 16:56:09 any kawa developer here, by any chance? 16:56:54 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:57:09 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:38 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:58:12 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 17:03:13 whitequark: Do you mean a native compiler? 17:03:37 That would make Picobit less easily ported. 17:03:55 And code size is still an issue on low-end systems. 17:08:04 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:10 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-gtzhtkxjbxwlpdau] has joined #scheme 17:08:47 arcfide [1000@dhcp-cs-244-96.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 17:14:39 phax 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has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:02:54 rins [~rins@c-76-24-27-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:05:59 sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:24 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-140.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:08:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:15:03 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:15:18 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:49 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:21:40 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:21:40 f8l [~f8l@81.219.200.79] has joined #scheme 19:21:55 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: 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[~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 20:43:43 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:19 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:38 soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #scheme 20:51:22 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.250.224] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 20:55:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:59:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-0-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:48 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:03:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-134-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:47 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-62-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 21:05:06 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04E1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 21:05:55 stamourv: I mean, as an option. picobit already has sixpic, which is absolutely unportable. 21:08:13 whitequark: Picobit is independent of Sixpic. And Sixpic is not actively maintained at this point anyway. 21:08:56 It so happens that Picobit can compile with Sixpic, and the code may have been modified a bit for Sixpic's quirks, but that's it. 21:09:15 ah, okay then 21:10:21 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:28 whitequark: I didn't get around to adding support to the compiler for the primitives protocol yet. 21:11:46 But it would be possible to make it work without any change to the compiler at all, actually. 21:12:37 stamourv: just by generating the primitives.rkt as it currently is? 21:12:48 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 21:12:52 Exactly. 21:13:03 That's probably the best solution. 21:13:29 The format is not especially complicated, and the definitions at the top are fixed, at least for now. 21:13:35 rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:38 What do you think? 21:14:04 that can be easily done, and that's how I'm going to test it (have to do a bit of work on my side yet) 21:14:47 well, now I recognize that s-exp format we've settled on is actually implemented already 21:15:24 Well, the current compiler-side DSL is a bit different, but it's similar enough. 21:15:36 -!- f8l [~f8l@81.219.200.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:15:40 the differences are cosmetic, I'd say 21:16:11 Right. 21:18:12 Yes, this should make sense. Apart from that, is there a quick way to do something like #include in Racket? Generating the file with a header is fine, but not with static meaningful code (especially when it's the DSL definition itself); that causes some confusion. 21:22:13 `include' would be ugly. 21:22:50 What we could do is pit the definitions at the top in another file, say primitive-utils.rkt, and then require that file from the generated primitives.rkt. 21:23:43 So basically, the header of the generated file would be "#lang racket" and then "(require "primitive-utils.rkt")". 21:23:45 I'm not sure how Racket macros work, hence I'd proposed a simple include-ing. 21:24:01 If they survive between modules, your way is better. 21:24:20 That should work fine. 21:36:29 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:08 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-35.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-134-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:45:34 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:45:54 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-164-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:54 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-164-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:35 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:06 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:28 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:49:28 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:57 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:44 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:11 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:51:30 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:52:46 rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-140.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 22:01:49 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-145-11.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:03:55 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:11 -!- xissburg [~xissburg@187.50.13.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:47 -!- soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:27 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:51 sajith [~sajith@140-182-144-158.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 22:36:59 gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #scheme 22:37:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 22:37:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 22:37:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:37:45 -!- arcfide [1000@dhcp-cs-244-96.cs.indiana.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:33 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:29 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:40 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #scheme 22:48:33 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:58 -!- YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-37-213.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:56:40 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:04:38 jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-40-95.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:04:59 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:07:54 Anyone see this, by the way: ? 23:09:23 Interesting response to purely-functional orthodoxy; even Riastradh made a comment once, I believe, to the effect that it's not inconsistent to have a functional API that uses mutation under the hood. 23:17:19 ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-53-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:29 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:52 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-112-140.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:22:22 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 23:31:59 -!- sajith [~sajith@140-182-144-158.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:34:12 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 23:37:52 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6653.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:41 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53:02 cdated [~fieldsb@ip70-160-25-156.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:53:44 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.142.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:47 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:55:12 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:15 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:24 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:45 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme