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Normally it's spelled LET-SYNTAX in Scheme. 04:14:44 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:18:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:26:06 -!- Nisstyre is now known as luig1 04:26:15 -!- luig1 is now known as nisstyre 04:37:31 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:41:00 Gambit supports psyntax but it's not tied closely with the system - last I recall lots of standard macros break. 04:54:49 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:48 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 04:55:57 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:38 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 05:05:39 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-147.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:19:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 05:20:30 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-161-222.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30:23 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 05:38:14 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:32 Riastradh: You will be happy to know I changed my project description to: IronScheme will aim to be a R6RS conforming Scheme-like implementation 05:56:18 At this point, if aiming for R6RS, why not aim for R7RS in place of or in addition to? It's a much easier goal and looks like it will have wider support. 05:58:07 that description is 4 years old, I just changed Scheme to Scheme-like :) 06:00:01 foof: changes are good that I will support it, but given there are a few psyntax/R6RS implementations, I would like to see what they are doing implementation-wise 06:00:12 s/changes/chances/ 06:01:17 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:36 foof: is someone planning a test suite for R7RS like PLT did for R6RS? 06:03:32 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:41 leppie: I don't think anyone's brought that up (at least not recently), but it's a good point, we should have one. 06:05:03 i think so too, R6RS is rather portable IMO due to that test 06:05:39 something similar to the Python and Ruby spec test suites 06:09:35 Anyone know the gambit equivalent of (format for converting object to string? 06:09:38 soveran [~soveran@rrcs-24-43-163-86.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:14:16 object->string 06:14:42 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:25 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:31:37 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:38:01 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 06:40:46 -!- tupi_ [~david@189.60.180.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:18 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 07:01:48 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:19:14 Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:29:34 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbeccff.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:29:47 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfca2a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 07:41:01 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 07:54:30 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-194-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:10 -!- soveran [~soveran@rrcs-24-43-163-86.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:12 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-176-127.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:24:25 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-176-127.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:48 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-176-127.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:26:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:29:12 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-176-127.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has left #scheme 08:36:35 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:45:25 Burlingk [~burlingk@softbank221067045171.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 08:49:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-254-42-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:27:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-254-42-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:48:46 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [Quit: EM03] 10:12:57 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-88.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:21:14 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:23:15 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:45 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-242.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:50:20 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:50:54 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:52:14 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-242.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:02 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:13 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:27 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:06:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:53 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-171-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 11:13:26 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 11:13:32 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:15:21 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 11:17:50 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.190] has joined #scheme 11:22:05 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #scheme 11:25:30 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 11:30:24 hmmm... picobit doesn't seem to have an eval written in C... Only one in scheme, IIUC 11:38:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-147.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:25 But there's a dispatch that seems to interpret bytecode... so is the scheme eval eval'ed this way? 11:42:11 Ah, Gambit seems to be used for this bootstrapping 11:42:38 wingo [~wingo@perens.inria.fr] has joined #scheme 11:43:04 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:48:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:50:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-60.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:55:32 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [Quit: EM03] 12:00:25 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 12:34:32 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:44:19 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:44:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:46:01 -!- 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[Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:39 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 16:53:57 Another thing I wondered about while I looked at chibi, tinyscheme, picobit is that they have only native support for cons'es as a datastructure and implement hashes (for env) and vectors on top of that... Is this approach efficient enough for being usable, does it have a performance penality? 16:54:29 It surely simplifies the design, also of the GC 16:56:29 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:33 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:02 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:06:33 dostoyevsky: if the primitive data structure was a vector of variable number of slots, it would still keep the memory management simple enough. a cons could be implemented like a 2-slot vector. 17:18:40 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:51 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #scheme 17:24:52 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:37 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:27:34 dostoyevsky, a performance penalty over what? 17:29:38 dostoyevsky: as far as I understand, picobit even does not use hashes for env, just lists 17:29:50 variable name resolving is done by the compiler 17:35:14 Riastradh: Penalty over using real array and hashtable datatypes... It might be slow finding variables in a list.. slower than in a hash datastructure 17:36:03 dostoyevsky, what is the difference between a `vector' and a `real array', or a `vector of buckets' and a `real hashtable' (or, a `vector of open-addressing entries', or whatever)? 17:39:47 Riastradh: True, if you have vectors, hashtables are easy... 17:40:16 If you have only lists (pairs of first/rest), then it might be slow 17:40:26 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:10 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:13 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:03:52 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:19:16 -!- ijp [~user@host81-159-127-160.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:25 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:03 dongdong [54c17518@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.193.117.24] has joined #scheme 18:24:45 hello i have a question 18:25:25 yes? 18:25:44 No. 18:25:51 how important is cps conversion in the compilation of functional programming? 18:26:10 do all compilers use it or ... not 18:26:32 CPS is a convenient representation for some purposes. Some compilers use it; some don't. 18:28:31 hmm okay 18:29:11 and what are the most important of those purposes if i may ask? 18:31:08 I think it makes tail-call optimization easier? 18:32:04 It gives explicit representation to continuations, which makes it easier to talk about the program's control flow and local variables in the compiler. 18:32:15 pierreghz [~pierreghz@cust-153-75-111-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:55 ah ok 18:34:19 i understand what you mean about the control flow 18:34:39 what advantages does it have in terms of local variables 18:35:29 CPS gives a name to the entities that need to store local variables, more specifically and at a finer grain than just `the stack' or similar. 18:37:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:39:00 Ah, ok. 18:39:08 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 18:40:59 When you say, "more specific and at a finer grain than the stack", you mean, how the stack is divided into diffrent parts for each call, right? 18:41:17 Yes. 18:41:59 Okay. 18:43:33 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:43:50 hoi 18:44:15 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [Quit: EM03] 18:47:39 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:09 -!- ratsel [~ratsel@11.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:23 Okay, one more question. If a compiler would use cps conversion, what kinds of optimizations would that allow(or just make easier) in terms of producing assembly code? 18:58:15 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:01:13 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 19:03:41 It doesn't enable or prevent any optimizations. It just provides a convenient way to look at the code. 19:06:41 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:06:48 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:54 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:21 Ah okay, thanks for answering the questions. 19:11:40 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:28 -!- dongdong [54c17518@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.193.117.24] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:40:24 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:42 soveran [~soveran@rrcs-24-43-163-86.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:49:54 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:54 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 20:00:08 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:28 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:19:00 elly: Welcome back to G+. :-D (I've been...absent for a while, since I was spending too much time playing The Witcher instead. But, good seeing you! Did you know I have a special circle called Schemers?) 20:26:09 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #scheme 20:31:44 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 20:33:43 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:45:08 -!- pierreghz [~pierreghz@cust-153-75-111-94.dyn.as47377.net] has quit [Quit: dodo forcé] 20:53:06 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:19 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:37 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.112] has joined #scheme 21:00:15 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:02 samth [~samth@134.174.140.216] has joined #scheme 21:19:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-60.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:29 cky: thanks :) I don't post much though 21:41:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.112] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 21:56:23 Do I want to make use of the Scheme->C code, or is that a tar pit to be avoided at all costs? 21:57:33 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:58:28 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:00:39 jcowan: Has there any work been done on Scheme->C since 1993? 22:00:52 Supposedly JMS has been maintaining it. 22:01:08 Until recently Stalin was hosted on it. 22:01:18 now it's self-hosting, but also hosted on Chicken (why, I cannot understand) 22:01:54 I guess debugging Stalin would be easier on Chicken, but because Stalin is autistic, there's nothing to do about any bugs you find 22:03:32 hm? 22:03:35 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:48 jcowan: "Autistic" is probably the best description of Stalin I've ever heard: both Schemely and Bolshevikly. 22:07:40 Thanks. 22:07:49 Bolshevistically* 22:08:22 Schematically*, for that matter. 22:09:07 Or not; has as anyone contrived an adjectival corollary to Scheme? 22:09:13 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:19 Adverbial, surely. 22:10:30 The adjective is `Schemely'. 22:11:22 mts [~mts@pool-74-110-121-57.nrflva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:13:09 Riastradh: But the -ly suffix is ambiguous, isn't it? There's a whole class of adverbs in -ly. I thought I could build the adverb from the adjective, but Schemely is a dead-end: unless, "Schemelyly." 22:13:23 Schemelyly is pretty fucking cool, actually. 22:13:44 The -ly suffix is not ambiguous. Can someone `do something knavely'? Of course not. One can be knavely, but not `do something knavely'. 22:14:01 Knavishly, though. 22:14:10 But it's a suffix upon a suffix. 22:14:39 Right: one builds adverbs upon the adjectival stem. 22:16:05 Anyway, I find myself building nouns with `Scheme-', instead of contriving an adjective. 22:16:41 Riastradh: Oh, sorry: knavely, adv. [!] c1592 Marlowe Jew of Malta iv. v, "Knavely spoke, and like a man at arms." 22:17:12 Thus spake the OED. It's also "Obs. rare^{-1}", though; I'll give you that. 22:29:20 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #scheme 22:29:30 cky: Um... why `#%require'? 22:30:07 cky: Also, there's this for automating the installation: http://docs.racket-lang.org/readline/index.html#(def._((lib._readline/main..rkt)._install-readline!)) 22:30:32 cky: And finally, the next release will have this: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/xrepl/ 22:31:06 eli: Try running plt-r5rs if you use require instead of #%require. :-) 22:31:29 cky: That's bogus for almost anything anyway. 22:31:39 eli: I avoided mentioning install-readline! precisely because it uses require instead of #%require. 22:32:00 Specifically in this context, he said that he wants to do SICP. 22:32:12 That may be (bogus), but it's still there and I still sometimes test with it. :-) 22:33:43 zeroish [~zeroish@siphon.research.att.com] has joined #scheme 22:33:48 (What's still there?) I'm not questioning the cases where you need that since you don't have require (and BTW, it's easy to `#%require' `require'), I'm just saying that in this question's context it's bogus; also for anyone else that tries to use r5rs. 22:35:16 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:51 ratsel [~ratsel@11.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:45 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 23:03:15 ijp [~user@host86-173-113-223.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:08:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:09 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 23:20:13 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 23:21:12 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:38 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:32:33 Anyone familiar with Kolmogorov complexity, by the way? 23:33:17 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33:30 I'd like to be able to make statements like, "Scheme is Kolmogorovically simpler than e.g. Java, since it can specify a given object with less computational resources." 23:33:42 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:33:59 But it doesn't appear as though Kolmogorovic comparisons are valid across languages; or are they? 23:34:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:34:40 The above statement may not always, of course, hold. 23:35:59 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:24 -!- samth [~samth@134.174.140.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:39:16 , by the way. 23:41:17 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:24 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:47 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 23:45:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:16 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:55:47 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme