00:03:53 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:05:12 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:19:06 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:26 stepnem_ [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 00:19:31 ada2358 [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:19:35 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:20:12 elly_ [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 00:20:18 cbrannon_ [~cbrannon@99-177-240-11.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:20:19 C-Keen_ [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 00:22:29 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:29 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 00:22:29 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:29 -!- jimster [~jimster@jimster.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:29 -!- ada2358_ [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-132-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:31 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:31 -!- pbusser2 [~peter@79.99.24.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:31 -!- erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:31 -!- C-Keen_ is now known as C-Keen 00:22:32 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 00:22:58 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:19 jimster [~jimster@jimster.org] has joined #scheme 00:27:04 masm [~masm@bl15-132-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:27:57 erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 00:46:15 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:46:17 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@pool-71-173-93-142.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:59 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:36 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:01:02 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:34 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:59 -!- elliottcable is now known as what 01:06:25 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:05 -!- what is now known as elliottcable 01:07:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:20 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:09:25 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:47 Came across this gem in Wikipedia: "It is customary to show the yin-yang puzzle while discussing call/cc." 01:09:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-82-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:09:53 No discussion; no citation. Classic. 01:10:27 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:27 Revert time! 01:11:08 I wonder if grokking yin-yang is a necessary but not quite sufficient precondition for entering into Scheme's Skull and Bones Society. 01:13:13 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 01:13:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:21 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:20:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:02 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@pool-71-173-93-142.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805211839]] 01:35:26 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:26 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 2027 "I am the man who arranges the blocks!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8] 01:42:02 kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:48:03 -!- woonie2 [~woonie@nusnet-188-149.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:33 What other portable CPAN-like frameworks were there besides Snow and Common-Scheme? 01:54:36 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 01:55:40 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:58:56 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:01:33 Spells does not seem to provide a central repo of libraries. 02:04:57 Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 02:06:00 prototrout [~steve@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:43 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-132-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:33:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:56 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:35:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:35:10 r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has joined #scheme 02:35:25 Hello everybody! 02:36:13 HELLO MR R2Q2 OR MS AS THE CASE MAY BE 02:36:24 *offby1* gesticulates wildly 02:36:32 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:43 *r2q2* likes your humor 02:36:50 *r2q2* ANYONE WANT AN OPERATION I'M CHEAP 02:37:03 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-149-84.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:03 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-149-84.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:37:03 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 02:42:23 *r2q2* had a long day 02:42:30 Quick question: what's a good name for this function? (lambda (f . args) (lambda _ (apply f args))) 02:42:37 apply a function 02:42:54 apply-fn-list 02:43:09 wait what is the _ ?? 02:43:24 Example usage: 02:43:24 Is this a macro or a function? 02:43:38 rudybot: (define foo (lambda (f . args) (lambda _ (apply f args)))) 02:43:39 cky: your sandbox is ready 02:43:39 cky: Done. 02:43:52 rudybot: (define bar (foo + 42 10)) 02:43:52 cky: Done. 02:43:56 (foo + '(1 2 3)) 02:43:59 oh ok 02:44:00 rudybot: (bar 'ignored 1 2 3) 02:44:00 cky: ; Value: 52 02:44:11 (Bar 20) 02:44:18 rudybot: (bar 20) 02:44:19 cky: ; Value: 52 02:44:27 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:44:36 rudybot: It returns a function that calls the function with arguments initially given. 02:44:36 cky: editor. It was written in 1976 by Richard Stallman, initially 02:44:44 r2q2: It returns a function that calls the function with arguments initially given. 02:44:55 oh 02:44:55 r2q2: That function ignores everything given. 02:45:42 lambda accumulator? 02:45:48 it sort of performs an accumulation function 02:46:00 where it saves the lambda state previously 02:46:06 ...not quite. ;-) 02:48:14 call with previous lambda? 02:49:07 Or call with saved lambda 02:49:21 wait its a closure right 02:49:23 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:49:24 call with closed lambda 02:51:00 tupi_ [~david@189.60.180.75] has joined #scheme 02:51:12 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:59 call with dog whistle 02:52:07 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:17 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:47 call with dinner bell 02:54:02 *offby1* salivates 02:56:00 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:09 I don't really know the answer to this really. I'm not that good at naming things I have a hard time understanding. I'm sorry cky. 03:08:40 Oh god 03:08:57 Page 27 of the paper categories for the practicing physicist 03:09:25 has 60 percent of the page devoted to I quote "One needs to read this 'dragon as follows." 03:10:09 Man I love category theory 03:10:14 they even used it in the Graduate 03:12:36 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:13:00 oh wait false wikipedia entry 03:13:05 It was used in It's my turn 03:15:43 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:05 Sorry about that :-( 03:19:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:22:29 Hi em 03:24:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:24:48 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:28:39 -!- r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:42:02 -!- phax 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betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:04 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 08:31:49 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 09:09:52 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:48 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 09:16:25 dhaivat [~Dhaivat_P@14.97.131.239] has joined #scheme 09:17:20 I just got myself MIT Scheme (I'm on windows, I can't get much else), and its giving me this irritating REPL where I have to hit C-x C-e in order to evaluate things, how do I get something that'll just evaluate things without any extra key presses (aside from enter)? 09:18:11 did my message get cut off? Can anyone read this? 09:19:49 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20:45 dhaivat: you can try racket from http://racket-lang.org/download/ which comes with a nice GUI and REPL 09:20:59 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 09:29:29 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:44 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 09:35:59 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:14 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 09:37:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-3.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:56 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:20 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 09:47:25 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-27.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:56:31 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-194-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:08 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:34 Burlingk [~burlingk@softbank221067045171.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 10:27:15 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 10:27:59 woonie [~woonie@s120217.pc.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 10:29:04 r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has joined #scheme 10:29:17 -!- Burlingk [~burlingk@softbank221067045171.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:11 -!- r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has left #scheme 10:35:37 -!- woonie [~woonie@s120217.pc.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:36:44 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-188-149.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 10:38:04 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:38:18 Burlingk [~burlingk@softbank221067045171.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 10:40:57 dhaivat: Are you sure you're not using edwin instead of the REPL? 10:42:27 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 10:47:14 ijp [~user@host86-173-112-69.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:50:16 r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has joined #scheme 10:56:16 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57:41 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 11:18:08 -!- r2q2 [43a75191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.81.145] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:25:41 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:36:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 11:40:12 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:40:15 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 11:40:34 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #scheme 11:50:10 rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 12:25:53 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 12:29:02 The loonies have come out. 12:56:34 Continuations are hard, let's go shopping! 12:58:53 yes! 12:59:12 but what do we do with our shopping bags? 13:04:51 (call/cc (lambda (shopping) ...)) 13:08:23 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 13:27:22 why is call/cc necessary rather than a procedure that just returns the current continuation directly? continuations confuse me terribly 13:31:59 pyro-: you dont return the current continuation, you apply/invoke/call it rather 13:33:05 pyro-, try this: (define (current-continuation) (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (x) x))) (define (find predicate list) (let ((return (current-continuation))) (for-each (lambda (x) (if (predicate x) (return x))) list) #f)) 13:35:56 foof, anyway, I thought that it wasn't supposed to be a discussion list... 13:38:32 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:01 thank you Riastradh 13:41:05 zer0618 [~x@118.183.45.118] has joined #scheme 13:41:21 Riastradh: That's why I asked them to take the discussion off the list. 13:41:53 Eh, I suppose I have to switch to moderation now... 13:46:58 If anyone wants to get involved in the discussion, here's a cute five-minute hack ... 13:48:53 Oh, is his issue just that nobody wanted to go to the trouble of specifying what happens when you throw out of or into a DYNAMIC-WIND before or after thunk? 13:49:02 That's pretty silly. Someone should just have specified it the obvious way. 13:49:37 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #scheme 13:50:06 Actually they did in R6RS, and that was an oversight in R7RS. 13:50:26 I really have no idea what Shapiro is trying to say. 13:50:32 foof, by the way, a wether is a castrated male sheep. I don't think they're `OK'. 13:51:35 What do you have against castrated sheep anyway?! 13:51:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:54:16 Well, do you think they would be OK with what has been done to them? 13:54:22 I mean, I've never asked one... 13:55:08 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:58:59 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:17 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 14:02:28 -!- zer0618 [~x@118.183.45.118] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:41 aisa [~aisa@c-76-113-7-111.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:19 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:39 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:35 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:06:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:10:14 foof: you have a link of that discussion, about call/cc? 14:13:55 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-188-149.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:15:09 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:19:17 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:20:30 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805211839]] 14:22:17 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:21 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #scheme 14:22:42 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:30:52 pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.46] has joined #scheme 14:36:51 foof: if you don't want replies at all, make it an announcement-only list. if you want replies to go elsewhere, set the list reply-to and possibly cc scheme-reports by default. 14:37:09 otherwise the technology facilitates discussion 14:37:57 which i don't mind, except that the list is private. for me it is a privilege to be on a list that (e.g.) robby findler reads. 14:39:02 wingo: The idea was to allow implementors to post their thoughts to each other, without entering a full debate. 14:39:52 Since I sent the poll out, a brief reply from me possibly with an action item seemed appropriate. 14:40:19 an action with unexpected consequences, i see ;-) 14:40:48 But if people start flaming about removing call/cc from the language, people like Robby Findler will probably stop reading the list :) 14:41:08 *leppie* feels left out, what is this list? 14:43:29 leppie: having trouble finding the link, it's a private google group with uncertain purpose, but whose subscribers are to be scheme implementors 14:43:40 then leppie should be invited 14:43:43 yes agreed 14:44:00 though i think i will unsubscribe 14:44:07 why? 14:44:55 I will probably have no input, but do enjoy reading motivations for ideas/designs/etc 14:45:53 foof: i don't think there is anything that needs to be said in private, and i don't like the public/private tension. i would be happiest if the folks that are on that list were more present on scheme-reports, but did not feel the need to defend everything that they do 14:46:08 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:54 or if scheme-reports isn't the right thing, then some other list, but scheme-reports seems as good as any 14:53:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:54:52 foof: thanks, landed up nicely in the 'junk mail' (stupid Windows Live Mail) 14:55:50 oooh, who hates call/cc? 14:55:54 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:55:56 shap 14:56:06 (iro) 14:56:17 who is an implementor of which scheme? 14:56:31 he did maintain tinyscheme at one point. 14:56:37 perhaps still does. 14:56:55 ah, ok 14:57:19 my understanding was that he was currently working on a typed, low-level language called BitC (ie, not scheme) 14:58:29 does anyone actually "maintain" tinyscheme? 14:59:24 samth: Probably only the Gimp team. *grins, ducks, and runs* 15:02:28 capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 15:03:44 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:07:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124211 15:09:01 those were the tests I wrote when I was using Riadstrah's CPS converter, boggled my mind 15:09:18 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: capivara] 15:09:20 but any Scheme with a correct dynamic-wind and call/cc should pass those tests 15:22:15 hooray for testing 15:25:36 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #scheme 15:25:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:30 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:24 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:16 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-188-149.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 15:40:23 tinyscheme looks nice. :) 15:46:37 Does anyone remember the name of that small scheme compiler, mentioned here the other day? It was also very small... and for PIC16 (or something spelled like that...) 15:47:26 phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has joined #scheme 15:52:51 dostoyevsky: bit, or picobit? 15:55:54 wingo: Yes, that's the one. :) 15:57:17 scheme really is a treasure trove for anyone interested in learning how to design languages 15:58:03 Who knows whether the wether's nethers weathered the sever. 16:07:11 :) 16:08:58 cky: a reply to answer on SO. @leppie Clearly that overload is fine since the code compiles. – David Heffernan 16:14:45 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:14:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:14:52 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:14:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-2.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:19:12 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 16:23:20 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:48 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:37:16 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #scheme 16:42:21 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:21 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:27 sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 16:42:28 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:28 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 16:42:36 samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:42:41 -!- tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:16 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:17 rapacity_ [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 16:43:32 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 16:44:41 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:41 -!- poucet [~chris@li23-146.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:36 poucet [~chris@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:47:50 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 16:50:45 jimster_ [~jimster@jimster.org] has joined #scheme 16:51:03 -!- jimster [~jimster@jimster.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:11 -!- evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:01 evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has joined #scheme 16:52:04 hoi 16:52:08 -!- phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52:24 sepisult1um [yneg4yod00@hcl-club.lu] has joined #scheme 16:56:39 -!- sepisultrum [il9wcty4y2@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:41 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:45 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 16:57:24 o hai 17:00:01 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 17:02:21 HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:08 soveran [~soveran@rrcs-24-43-163-86.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:18:06 noonian [~noonian@c-67-171-219-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:20:28 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:23:46 tizoc` [~user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 17:27:00 -!- tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:44 -!- tizoc` is now known as tizoc 17:27:50 -!- tizoc [~user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:27:51 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 17:29:08 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:38:23 -!- askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:20 askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 17:40:27 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:23 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #scheme 17:42:21 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-188-149.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - 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That kernel should be both more 21:48:40 than Scheme modules and macrosand less than Schemecontinuations remain an ugly stain 21:48:40 on the otherwise clean manuscript of Scheme. 21:48:40 " 21:48:49 describing the next lisp 21:49:22 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-76-113-7-111.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:50:05 why do they think continuations are ugly? 21:50:19 speaking of which are delimited continuations going to show up in any standard anytime soon? 21:50:30 turbofail: They will be in R7RS-large, yes. 21:50:40 ah 21:50:52 static or dynamic? 21:51:00 Unknown as yet. 21:51:10 WG2 is suspended until WG1 finishes. 21:52:10 hm 21:52:18 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has left #scheme 21:54:33 jcowan: *ahem* the problem is, I do what I do not because of Scheme knowledge, but because of C knowledge... 21:54:52 So what we have is a list of short descriptions of what WG2 will include, but they are not for the most part fleshed out. 21:56:06 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/StandardDocket and http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/ConsentDocket 22:05:43 whitequark: How did you become the picobit maintainer? 22:06:22 whitequark: It looks very lean, picobit... 22:08:32 jcowan: I am not a maintainer (I think.) I am just tired of C's ugliness and want to use a _real_ language in my microcontrollers 22:10:13 dostoyevsky: yes, it is. there's a drawback through: on one side, it is designed for restricted systems (around 8-16K of RAM and ROM); on other side, it is simply unable to run on systems which have more resources due to implementation details 22:10:18 HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:32 whitequark: Ah. 22:10:35 jcowan: The maintainer is stamourv. 22:10:54 I knew that was formerly true, but not if it was still true. 22:11:14 He recently ported it to Racket and I think he has some long-term plans for it, but he can tell you more. :) 22:11:35 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 22:11:52 whitequark: Yeah... it's nice looking at it though. I try to write a small scheme that compiles to Intel x86. But I do not really understand scheme yet... So looking at what others have done surely helps 22:12:34 dostoyevsky: so you're going to write an AOT compiler? it's not an easy task, I'd say 22:13:29 *jcowan* updates http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/SchemeImplementors 22:14:43 whitequark: So far I'd be happy if I 'd just replace my C eval with calls that I generated with my "compiler"... 22:16:07 whitequark: What makes it easier to write a compiler like picobot v x86? 22:16:40 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:07 dostoyevsky: picobit is written in C. I'd say it is much easier to generate a VM instructions than to handle all the x86 weirdness 22:17:17 s,a VM,VM, 22:19:17 it all depends on the level of optimization and applicability you're trying to reach, through 22:21:14 whitequark: I want to start small... Just a small assembler/disassemlber that can replace a C-function call... so I do not have to dispatch the command in eval but directly call the approprate section (set!, if, call proc, ...) 22:23:22 dostoyevsky: yeah, if you do it the naïve way, it is pretty straightforward 22:25:40 And then I want to collect tracing data, so I could start to inline things... e.g. I could replace a call to (+ 3 4) with machine code, provided I that I know it's mostly used with integers... and then see if I can get it fast enough.. I will just watch and try... 22:25:41 The question is how much speed you actually gain with neither type nor closure analysis. 22:27:07 talking about that, I wonder how much performance register allocation gains on x86 22:27:30 whitequark: A lot I'd say... 22:27:38 on 8-bit controllers stack manipulation is quite expensive, on ARMs it is a bit cheaper 22:27:59 but x86 has a ton of addressing modes, including esp-relative ones for a lot of ops 22:29:05 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:27 I think I will mostly look at what kinds of things are done in v8 and JVM and then go from there... 22:29:30 generally speaking, stack VMs I've seen were much slower than their register couterparts 22:29:54 *stack-based, register-based 22:30:33 jcowan_ [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 22:30:59 dostoyevsky: that's quite ambitious :) 22:31:25 whitequark: Yeah, I am not sure how far i will get. :) 22:31:55 you should also check LLVM then, it is a very powerful translator 22:33:34 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:41 It also works like a VM, right? You generate some kind of bytecode and then it will go and try to generate highly optmized machine code... 22:36:34 dostoyevsky: I think that all translators for dynamic languages work like that 22:38:04 permagreen [~alex@97-120-251-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:05 -!- Kajtek is now known as Olivia 22:42:29 -!- erytssiN [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:24 erytssiN [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 22:49:31 I heard that the people from Azul (formerly working at Sun on the JVM) said that bytescodes give you the illusion of being efficient... and they do not want to use them in their VMs... I am not sure what kind of VMs they are producing, though... maybe just certain platforms 22:51:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-150-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:56:31 dostoyevsky: iirc, they're doing it at hardware level 22:56:44 i.e. make a Java-optimized processors 22:57:22 they've also made JVMs that run on stock x86 hardware 22:58:13 -!- Olivia is now known as Kajtek 22:58:20 they even submitted some kernel patches for linux, aimed at making their pauseless GC run on it 22:59:05 unfortunately those patches were not really up to spec so they probably won't be getting in anytime soon 23:00:58 turbofail: I heard they wanted to to do their own memory mapping, directly via the processor... I currently use mmap() in my scheme for the memory management but if I could organize the address translation all by myself I could be more efficient in some cases... 23:03:49 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:09 -!- erytssiN [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:45 yourstruly [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 23:08:16 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f768b03.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:08:28 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f76981f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:09:24 -!- yourstruly is now known as yretssin 23:11:07 jcowan_: Shouldn't tinyscheme also be on the list of the SchemeImplementors? 23:18:09 -!- evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:18:56 evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has joined #scheme 23:19:57 dostoyevsky: Done 23:21:11 are there any active implementers of tinyscheme remaining? 23:22:18 -!- Kajtek is now known as Kajtek2 23:22:54 -!- Kajtek2 is now known as Kajtek 23:23:30 dostoyevsky: Note chibi-scheme is the same size as tinyscheme, >10x faster, and substantially more featureful. 23:24:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 23:26:22 i've compiled tinyscheme down to 30K or so before 23:26:34 it's still a piece of crap though 23:26:39 but occasionally useful 23:27:21 And I've compiled chibi to 50k or so. I could make it smaller if I thought the difference between 30k and 50k meant anything. 23:29:17 foof: It looks very similar to tinyscheme on the source code level with many reworks and improvments... 23:29:29 ... 23:29:43 Only not. 23:29:45 dostoyevsky: It's completely different, and written from scratch. 23:30:07 foof: Ok, then it's just the comment on the GC which is taken from Knuth that's the same. :) 23:30:52 Oops, wrong directory... 23:31:14 lol 23:31:37 I compared tinyscheme to tinyscheme 23:32:21 I hear that's what Oracle did when they claimed Google stole their Java code. 23:32:38 Is it true that tinyscheme does not do tail recursion optimization? 23:34:10 it does do tail call optimization 23:36:44 You need TCO for basic loops in Scheme, that's one thing you just can't leave out. 23:38:03 Well, providing just TRO and not full TCO gets you much of the way there. Not that I want to remove TCO from the standard, but e.g. Flopsy (which will be a NQS) will only have TRO for named-let and do. 23:39:20 full TCO is trivial to implement in a tree-interpreter anyway, so there's really no reason not to do it 23:39:39 (for tinyscheme i mean) 23:39:50 foof: I have added some todos to the source about generic unspecified effects. I think that if possible we should remove them. 23:41:59 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:42:01 soveran [~soveran@rrcs-24-43-163-86.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:42:16 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #scheme 23:44:10 The current list is: force/delay expression returns multiple values; unexpected MVs in random places; altering top-level bindings not introduced by a definition; opening an existing file for output. 23:44:31 We have a ballot issue for the last one, but even if that fails we could say something more specific than "undefined effect" = nasal demons. 23:45:16 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-60-27.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:47 -!- zanes [~zane@mail.barackobama.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:18 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-132-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:56:00 chibi looks very nice too. Does so many things and still so small. :) 23:56:42 and the code is very readable