00:02:27 -!- zanes [~zane@mail.barackobama.com] has quit [] 00:08:55 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:00 *ski* is reminded of "Exceptional Syntax" by Nick Benton,Andrew Kennedy in 2001 at 00:24:59 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:26:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:32:49 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c1e0.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 00:37:01 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:40:14 45PAAF7NN [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 00:40:15 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 00:45:32 oldpier [~oldpier@137.132.45.225] has joined #scheme 00:46:45 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-77-233.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:49:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:11 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:58:17 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:58:35 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:11:05 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:18:20 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-115-30.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:29 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:24:54 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:25:23 hoi 01:33:48 -!- moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:36 damn. i can't possibly decide whether one function type is a subtype of another function type 01:46:55 weirdo: you probably need function types with domain and range (a -> b) for that. 01:47:27 my function types are messy 01:47:56 I wish the word `range' would be abolished. 01:48:40 they have 'if' expressions, in the condition part, a list of variables must unify with given types 01:49:19 codomain. 01:49:28 Riastradh: how will you denote the distance at which your weapon may smite your enemies? 01:49:47 That's a different word, turbofail. It just happens to be spelled the same way. 01:49:52 turbofail, bullet drop 01:49:53 :) 01:51:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 01:53:51 bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:58 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:10:03 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 02:10:35 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:13:09 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:13:35 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:15:54 -!- cdh23 [~cdh23@pix39.systemsbiology.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:37 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:37 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 02:28:14 -!- jcowan_ [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:30:56 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:10 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 02:34:24 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36:31 pandeiro [~androirc@bd21c1e0.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:36:59 -!- pandeiro [~androirc@bd21c1e0.virtua.com.br] has quit [Client Quit] 02:52:21 demirr [~demirr@77.117.246.224.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #scheme 02:53:11 Wow, these Rubyists are so quaint; I feel like I'm in Beethoven's Sixth Symphony of hackathons. 02:53:38 I wish LA Schemers would get their shit together and hack socially; I have a feeling it would look more like Sons of Anarchy. 02:53:45 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:53:55 Maybe I'll have to organize it. Hackathon of one. 03:03:11 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:14 kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:07:13 which rubyists? 03:08:15 dgs: Just a little get-together at caltech; it's amazing to me, though, since we deal in ASTs, that people would get together in their free time are discuss syntax. 03:08:24 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:33 s/are/to/ 03:09:30 Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 03:09:32 *jcowan* likes to see ed/ex/sed corrections used on IRC 03:11:00 *gnomon* muffles the impulse to make a ed/ex/sed -- sex/ed joke 03:13:19 Aw, go on. You know you want to. 03:14:00 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:14:05 If it's good enough I'll write it into R7RS.... 03:14:09 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:24 Don't even joke about that!! 03:14:39 My mother would read that and _kill_ me. 03:18:11 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 03:18:43 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:49 type inference is hard, let's go shopping 03:18:50 :( 03:18:53 Your mother is a [Ss]chemer? 03:19:08 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 03:19:10 i'm trying to infer OR expressions 03:19:17 and it's nothing but pain. the pain, the pain... 03:19:18 Furrfu. 03:19:25 Just use sigils, like I'm doing. 03:20:36 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has quit [Quit: upgrading. bbiab.] 03:33:02 leo2007 [~leo@124.72.117.9] has joined #scheme 03:37:46 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:01 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49:43 Man, these bearded vulcan-hackers are formidable; hacker-beards are ersatz-phallus. 03:52:15 -!- rins [~rins@c-76-24-27-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:53:33 Why would I also want an ersatz phallus? 03:53:41 (Or rather, why would I want two of them?) 03:54:06 -!- demirr [~demirr@77.117.246.224.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 03:54:34 -!- bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bill_h] 03:55:04 bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:58:12 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfd2ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:58:21 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbedf9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 03:59:27 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@137.132.45.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00:28 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:42 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 04:06:50 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:12:54 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:07 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:19:29 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:20:31 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:23:34 Ooh, a talk about R7RS and I don't have to give it! :) 04:26:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:49 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:41:19 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 04:43:47 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:45 foof: Yeah, and good news about the folks you sent the draft to, too. 05:01:29 jcowan: `Ersatz' is unfair; maybe `totemic'. 05:01:48 Fair enough. 05:02:28 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:02:47 *jcowan* 's phallus is only partly ersatz, anyway. 05:03:57 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:09:11 klutometis: Does that make it a totem pole? 05:09:40 *jcowan* defenestrates foof. 05:10:13 -!- bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bill_h] 05:11:58 *offby1* slaps foof upside the haid 05:12:31 pcavs [~paul@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:20:18 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 05:32:37 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:03 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:34:23 -!- 45PAAF7NN [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:39 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:39:27 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 05:40:08 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:16 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:52:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:55:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 05:58:16 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:00:51 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:51 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:02:59 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:05:08 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 06:05:37 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:07:28 jrapdx [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has joined #scheme 06:08:40 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:08:42 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:08:52 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:09:00 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:09:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-6.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:10:11 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:36 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:17:11 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:25 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 06:17:34 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.117.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 06:19:34 -!- jrapdx [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:44 penryu [~tanuki@kame.penryu.org] has joined #scheme 06:19:48 -!- penryu [~tanuki@kame.penryu.org] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:49 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #scheme 06:21:14 jrapdx [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has joined #scheme 06:35:53 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:36:02 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #scheme 06:44:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 06:49:26 -!- Guest9666 is now known as depy_work 06:53:09 -!- depy_work is now known as depywork 06:53:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 06:53:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-81-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:49 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:22 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 06:56:52 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-101-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 07:07:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:07:22 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:12:09 moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 07:26:22 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:37:13 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Quit: Indian] 07:37:58 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:38:42 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:25 choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:49:38 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:51 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 07:52:40 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 07:56:16 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:57:41 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 08:08:52 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 08:09:40 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 08:23:18 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:30:14 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 08:42:33 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 08:42:53 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:48 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:20:25 masm [~masm@bl19-169-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:24:36 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off.] 09:29:50 choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:42:59 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:45:00 guys! 09:45:01 i made it 09:47:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123957 09:48:05 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 09:50:46 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:51:24 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:21 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:57:10 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 10:07:39 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@host218-102-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: ] 10:20:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-6.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04:34 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:05:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123960 11:11:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-59.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:21:15 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:41 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:30:15 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 11:33:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-59.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:41:20 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 11:44:29 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 11:46:28 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 11:47:54 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:48:17 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:27 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:09 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:00:21 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:01:53 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:06:27 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 12:08:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123961 12:19:48 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:31 oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 12:24:50 dfjkaspf [~paulh@145.120.22.156] has joined #scheme 12:26:40 tupi [~david@189.60.160.15] has joined #scheme 12:26:52 forcer [~forcer@e177169077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 12:28:18 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 12:28:18 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:28:18 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 12:32:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123962 12:39:18 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@spnp47178.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:00 bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:48:51 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:35 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:07:01 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:14:48 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:21:49 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 13:25:56 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.160.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:15 -!- forcer [~forcer@e177169077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:42:21 f8l [~f8l@77-254-82-137.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 13:43:25 SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:37 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 13:46:23 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:45 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:52:32 forcer [~forcer@e177168092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:01:53 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:07:53 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:02 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:18:55 phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has joined #scheme 14:24:04 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 14:29:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-230.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:31:02 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:32:28 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:34:38 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:38 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:42:18 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:54:46 -!- phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:37 joseanpg [5aaf6c84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.175.108.132] has joined #scheme 15:16:06 zanes [~zane@mail.barackobama.com] has joined #scheme 15:17:16 weirdo: (and (number? x) (rational? x)) <-- number? is not needed, spec (R6RS) says 'numerical type predicates can be applied to any kind of argument' 15:17:47 leppie, i know. it's a test of type inference 15:17:55 :) 15:17:58 nice 15:18:03 :-) 15:18:04 I wish I knew that stuff :) 15:18:19 the source is public 15:18:32 i'm gonna push in a second 15:18:44 I wish I knew that stuff to apply to IronScheme :) Not always that easy 15:18:52 leppie, it's not that hard 15:18:58 just propagate constraints 15:19:30 i have a special 'truth-value' type that makes sure predicates work as intended 15:19:31 i'll have a look, it sounds relatively easy in general 15:19:51 -!- SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:12 but it will require (quite) a bit of modification on my code generator 15:20:45 leppie, i have eq? forms stashed into the type-context 15:20:46 everything is 'object' in IronScheme, unless you use a special construct called 'typed-lambda' 15:21:11 so that type-expander can access them 15:21:15 you can do it! :-) 15:21:34 i'll push once i finally finish type simplification 15:21:42 I agree though, that it makes code a lot faster when dealing with boxed values, like fixnums, etc 15:21:44 -!- joseanpg [5aaf6c84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.175.108.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:08 you can probably unbox them in inline functions 15:22:32 weirdo: I do that for small branchless procs 15:22:41 http://xacc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/writing-fast-arithmetic-code-on-ironscheme/ <-- notice the difference 15:22:42 http://tinyurl.com/3bkg4up 15:23:24 if it was simply up to me, I would just write a macro for it, but type inference handles the 'lazy' cases 15:24:25 one problem is conses, though, as there are no immutable ones 15:24:29 in my scheme at least 15:24:45 also, typed lists are present only in &rest arg 15:24:50 rest is untyped 15:24:56 else it wouldn't make much sense with mutation 15:25:03 it seems the CLR JIT does not have very good 'common subexpression elimination' optimizer (if it has one at all) 15:25:54 weirdo: but based on your proc in say calling map, you can infer the list element type 15:26:49 also return list type 15:27:41 weirdo: remind me again, interpreter or compiler? 15:27:49 your scheme , that is 15:28:05 leppie, compiler to JS 15:28:21 nice :) 15:28:41 leppie, yes, i have certain 'oracle' functions 15:29:09 that take a symbol and type-arguments as a function and return return- and constraint types 15:29:31 actually, i changed a *lot* so that this (or pred1 pred2) case would work 15:29:35 and it's not yet implemented 15:29:48 return on investment sounds good :) 15:30:19 choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:19 i am still thinking how to implement it practically on top of R6RS 15:30:31 remember that (or p1 p2) expands to ((lambda (x) (if x x p2)) p1) 15:30:38 which is insane to support in an untyped language 15:30:48 i mean 'dynamically typed' by that 15:30:59 weirdo: Oops. :-P 15:31:00 yes 15:31:47 cky: I have a record on SO now :) A question with the most votes without a single answer 15:31:59 leppie: Oh, wow. :-P 15:32:07 click unanswered :) 15:32:09 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has joined #scheme 15:32:10 *cky* checks :-) 15:32:35 leppie, do you have a macroexpand-all function? 15:32:48 because that's all you need to run my type-expander 15:32:50 SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has joined #scheme 15:32:52 it should work on any scheme 15:32:53 :-) 15:33:24 weirdo: I can abstract that, but honestly, everything is handled by psyntax, I just need to provide 'eval' 15:33:26 note: recursion can give incorrect support now, i'm working on it, but there's so much stuff to do now 15:33:39 s/support/result/ 15:33:56 leppie: I like your comment on the deleted troll response. :-P 15:34:03 leppie: The "sod off" part, especially. :-P 15:34:23 cky :) originally it was 'piss off' but I thought it was a bit early for that ;P 15:34:39 Hahahaha. :-) 15:35:08 Not sure about South Africa but in New Zealand, I'd consider sod off more vulgar than piss off. :-) 15:35:16 weirdo: I have no problem injecting another expander phase, but it will need to handle my core forms 15:35:35 haha cky :) purpose served then 15:35:39 :-) 15:36:30 -!- forcer [~forcer@e177168092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:37:12 although the most 'complex' is a variation on letrec*, so no biggy really 15:37:58 cky: I wonder what makes a person do something so silly? 15:38:21 leppie: Trolls be trollin', sadly. 15:38:51 And this being the Internet.... 15:39:02 well he got a downvote, a flag and delete request from me. No-one ruins my question with an answer liek that 15:39:12 :-) 15:40:43 letrec*? 15:40:54 it has a star variant? 15:41:03 also, it shouldn't be a special form, you can do a lambda 15:41:05 no back to wonder why a change in C code in my profiler would cause IronScheme (both in same process) would cause my IronScheme code to catch a DivideByZero exception 15:41:44 weirdo: Yes, letrec* is to letrec what let* is to let, roughly speaking. 15:41:46 weirdo: for codegen it makes sense to have them seperate 15:42:06 leppie, but codegen is more robust if it can optimize them 15:42:09 HG` [~HG@p5DC04A9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:23 my inference would suck if it only accepted coded OR and AND 15:42:27 leppie: I sent a moderator flag for your question. All the editing you did on the question made it CW; I've asked the mods to remove the CW flag. 15:42:46 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:51 at least when I did that code, I was not prepared to destructure a letrec from lambdas 15:43:17 it also allowed me to do some early optimizations 15:43:38 again, I am not entirely sure that is all still needed, but I did 4 years ago :) 15:43:58 thanks cky, didn't notice! 15:44:43 :-) 15:45:00 grrr, so no wonder my score has not been going up! 15:45:09 That. 15:45:22 But once the CW flag has been removed, your score should be raised pretty soon. 15:45:26 i saw the votes going up 15:45:39 sweet :) hopefully no daily limit on that 15:45:46 Hahahaha. 15:46:54 oooo, just noticed the protect button too! click 15:47:03 Hahahaha. 15:47:31 But that only protects against users with low rep (<10). 15:47:38 That poster had 41 rep, even after all the downvotes. 15:47:41 let's hope the moderator takes action soon 15:47:46 Yep, I hope so. 15:48:10 i'm gunning for 100 votes without answer (but I hope the answer will come) 15:48:34 http://piec.itcrew.pl/seaking/ 15:48:37 leppie, here you go 15:48:39 And preferably a useful one from a member of the CLR team. 15:48:43 keep in mind that many things are broken 15:48:43 thanks weirdo 15:48:46 np :-) 15:49:02 MF! ok, that is a big file 15:50:47 pretty raw stuff :) 15:51:10 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93.97.29.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:43 no macros weirdo? 15:52:12 leppie, unhygienic ones 15:52:25 search for define-system-macro 15:52:46 ahh cool 15:53:13 they're broken too, there's no special form to use a toplevel binding 15:53:27 also, qq can't use vectors :( 15:55:09 your code should compile just fine on IronScheme, I'm gonna try it :) 15:55:27 just need (import (rnrs)) 15:55:38 everything looks very portable :) 15:55:50 thanks :-) 15:58:43 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:59:42 leppie, http://paste.lisp.org/display/123964 16:00:49 wow liberal cadddr usage! 16:01:01 :-) 16:01:19 there's no multiple-value-bind so whatcha gonna do? 16:01:31 maybe an alias would be nice 16:01:40 point taken 16:02:04 :) 16:02:43 another problem - 'special' types aren't always decidable 16:03:08 and standard 'subtype?' doesn't have a secondary parameter 16:03:09 like in (cadddr (cadddr type)) , I am sure the first one means something else than the second 16:03:32 the innermost one means the else-clause, the outer means the else-clause of the else-clause :-) 16:03:59 oh ok :) so they are the same 16:05:55 weirdo: SRFI 8. 16:06:02 weirdo: Scheme version of multiple-value-bind. 16:06:30 i try to use as few non-r5rs extensions (although i'll try to implement all strfis) 16:06:43 because i want a clean bootstrap 16:06:45 weirdo: SRFI 8 is _so_ lightweight, you'd be silly not to support it directly. 16:07:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:24 rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (receive lambda-list expr body ...) (call-with-values (lambda () expr) (lambda lambda-list body ...))) 16:08:25 cky: your sandbox is ready 16:08:25 cky: Done. 16:09:22 -!- SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:32 rudybot: (receive (q r) (quotient/remainder 10 4) (format "Quotient: ~a, Remainder: ~a" q r)) 16:09:32 cky: ask, and ye shall receive 16:09:39 rudybot: eval (receive (q r) (quotient/remainder 10 4) (format "Quotient: ~a, Remainder: ~a" q r)) 16:09:39 cky: ; Value: "Quotient: 2, Remainder: 2" 16:09:49 weirdo: ^^--- 16:10:16 cky, but i need destructuring lists 16:11:21 weirdo: If your lambda supports destructuring in the lambda-list, receive will work just as well there. 16:12:17 it doesn't 16:12:27 Then, that's on you to implement. :-P 16:12:44 is it in r7rs? :P 16:13:10 I don't think destructuring lambdas will ever be in any Scheme standard. 16:13:18 Because it conflicts with SRFI 89. 16:15:18 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #scheme 16:16:15 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 16:17:19 weirdo: maybe something like a 'lazy-let' would help: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123969 16:17:59 sorry, i don't speak hygienic 16:18:02 :) 16:18:10 i'll stick with my caddars for now 16:18:19 (lazy-let ((a (+ b 1)) (b (- c 2)) (c 6)) a) => 5 16:20:57 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:23:05 the scoping in that macro still baffles me 16:23:11 but it works 16:24:50 rudybot: eval (define-syntax lazy-let (syntax-rules () [(_ [(var ex) ...] body body* ...) (let () (let-syntax ((var (identifier-syntax (force var))) ...) (define var (delay ex)) ... body body* ...))])) 16:24:50 leppie: your sandbox is ready 16:24:51 leppie: Done. 16:25:04 rudybot: eval (lazy-let ((a (+ b 1)) (b (- c 2)) (c 6)) a) 16:25:04 leppie: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: identifier-syntax in module: 'program phase: 1 16:25:14 argg 16:25:41 SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:41 -!- SV0L0CH [~shatunov@gazing-essence.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:35 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:27:39 With (define-macro (test) foo) and (let ((foo 9)) foo) <-- what would be the trick to make this an unhygienic macro/make the foo be the lexical foo in the expanded code? 16:27:58 Sorry, I mean (define-macro (test) foo) and (let ((foo 9)) (test)) 16:28:58 Forgive my dumbness, I retract the question. 16:29:20 foof: Please, please, find a way to introduce that pun into R7RS; with how far we go back, I think #scheme deserves at least one inside joke. 16:29:52 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:37:43 confab_ [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 16:40:09 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:40:12 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:11 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:44:40 rudybot: (define-syntax (test x) (syntax-case x () ((_) (datum->syntax x 'foo)))) 16:44:40 cky: Done. 16:44:47 rudybot: (let ((foo 9)) (test)) 16:44:47 cky: ; Value: 9 16:44:50 Modius: ^^--- 16:45:25 I fudged up by having (test) return foo instead of 'foo - silly 16:45:41 Modius: syntax-case lets you bend hygiene intentionally, when you want to. But it won't happen accidentally, which all too often happens with define-macro. 16:45:53 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:05 Modius: Eh? If you want (test) to return 'foo instead of foo, then what point were you trying to make? 16:48:10 oldpier [~oldpier@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 16:48:18 Modius: I thought you wanted to see how you could bend hygiene using a sane macro system. 16:48:37 cky: I didn't have a point, I asked originally as I thought define-macro was hosing me; but it was actually just a stupid bug in my own code. 16:48:58 Hahahahaha. 16:49:23 Personally I woudldn't use define-macro for anything---it's too dangerous---but it's nice to know how to bend hygiene as necessary. 16:50:12 *cky* shuns weirdo for being anti-hygiene. :-P 16:53:34 A lot of people like that ride my bus. 16:53:41 Unhygienic, that is. 16:56:02 :-P 16:56:08 I think we're all bozos on this bus. 16:56:45 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:47 it's a tossup which "joke" is cornier -- mine or Riastradh's -- but I'll guess its his, since it originated around 1970, whereas the double meaning of "hygiene" is surely newer 16:58:11 however I commend anyone who is familiar with Four Or Five Crazy Guys 16:59:38 teurastaja [~samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:09:09 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 17:20:17 martin_hex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:20:17 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:20:17 -!- martin_hex is now known as martinhex 17:21:03 masm1 [~masm@2.80.169.115] has joined #scheme 17:21:09 jrapdx0 [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has joined #scheme 17:22:01 soveran [~soveran@host186.190-136-33.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 17:23:36 dfeuer_ [~dfeuer@pool-71-178-51-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:24:39 yosafbri` [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 17:25:12 leppie: I'm afraid I can't get your macro to work in Racket no matter what. But it works in Guile! \o/ 17:25:18 (Re lazy-let.) 17:27:02 samth_ [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:27:26 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:27 -!- teurastaja [~samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:27 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-169-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:28 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:28 -!- jrapdx [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:29 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:29 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:29 -!- bill_h [~wwh@c-66-177-105-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bill_h] 17:27:29 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:30 kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:16 guile uses psyntax does it not? 17:29:28 it might be a psyntax peculiarity 17:32:37 Lemonator [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:06 Is it described somewhere, at what times a GC should be blocked in a scheme implementation? 17:36:36 No. There are no general rules about that; your implementation might require it sometimes, or might require that the GC never stop. 17:36:44 What prompted the question? 17:38:24 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-173-52-208-184.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:38:38 I want to GC in another thread... but it means that my objects will be deleted before they have been referenced by another datastructure, like here: ``(define a (make-array))''`<- if the gc runs just after make-array, then it will not find any connections to it, so it will be deleted.. 17:39:23 I know that in Java there are some rules on bytecode level, when to halt the GC and when not... but I have not yet found them... 17:39:55 Then your thread is using the wrong root set. 17:41:36 cky: buggerall points, cheeeters! 17:42:07 leppie: Hehehehe. 17:42:14 leppie: (Yes, Guile uses psyntax.) 17:42:39 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #scheme 17:43:15 Riastradh: ``(begin (make-array) (define a 1))'' v ``(define a (make-array))'' <- if the GC is run in both cases just after make-array, how could it recognize that make-array's return value will be assigned to a vs. that the return value is ignored... 17:44:03 Where is the array stored at each moment in the evaluation of (define a (make-array))? It must be stored somewhere at all times, or else you'd forget about it! Wherever it's stored, your GC must look. 17:44:06 But yeah, I could actually trace it... 17:44:32 Maybe it's stored only in a machine register when the GC can run. In that case, the GC must look in the machine registers to find roots. 17:47:59 cky: also does not work in chez, so I assume a 'feature' in psyntax 17:48:32 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:49:11 i wonder how one would write correctly then 17:53:07 -!- confab_ is now known as confab 17:53:48 Riastradh: I'd say that when eval sees the ``define'' it can actually flag to the eval on the next level that the return value is to be referenced... In the begin example, only the last SEXP's return value would matter... 17:54:35 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:41 Riastradh: Since my GC only runs on scheme objects, I need to explicate these references somehow... 17:55:20 -!- jrapdx0 [~jra@236-23.gw-01.coinet.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:38 ahh got it :) 17:56:49 cdh23 [~cdh23@pix39.systemsbiology.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:52 but using R6RS/syntax-case 17:58:06 cky: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123969#1 17:59:10 leppie: Fancy pants. :-) 17:59:19 leppie: Does it work with Racket too? 17:59:34 should work with it's R6RS 17:59:39 *nods* 17:59:58 seems like a scoping bug in psyntax 18:00:12 guess that will never be fixed 18:00:17 Huh. 18:00:27 psyntax will never be fixed...but what's the bug? 18:00:39 Riastradh see the paste 18:00:55 I saw the paste. What's the bug? 18:00:56 the first version works like the second version in psyntax 18:01:12 the first should be an error 18:01:23 Ah. Yep, that's a bug... 18:01:34 No, I don't think it should be an error. 18:01:41 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 18:01:42 but I am not sure the erro I got from chez makes sense 18:02:00 It's just that the LET-SYNTAX should have no effect. 18:02:10 Exception: definition not permitted (define a (delay (+ b 1))) 18:02:55 let-syntax still confuse me 18:03:03 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:37 i dont think I will ever understand it completely (iow logically in my head) 18:03:56 Try reading riaxpander instead of psyntax. 18:04:07 perhaps having a broken implementation des not really help that cause :) 18:04:15 s/des/does/ 18:05:42 one day Riastradh, I will do :) 18:16:25 -!- dfjkaspf [~paulh@145.120.22.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:16:33 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:31:43 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:17 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:43:40 Riastrad1 [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:46:42 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:19 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:54:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:55:48 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 19:01:25 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 19:05:40 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:38 -!- samth_ is now known as samth 19:10:01 foof: the claim about phases and procedural macros in your r6rs-differences document is false 19:11:14 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 19:11:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-230.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:11:35 foof: witness (let-syntax ([x (let-syntax ([y EXPR]) 0)]) 0) -- EXPR is at phase 2, and arbitrary higher phases can similarly be used 19:16:06 Maybe EXPR is at phase 2. 19:16:08 Maybe it's not. 19:16:22 In Racket it is; in MIT Scheme and riaxpander it's not. 19:17:18 Riastradh: but that's because they don't have phases, right? 19:17:30 1 based indices? :) 19:17:44 No. 19:17:47 They have phases (with no sensible semantics in MIT Scheme, but that's irrelevant). 19:18:17 anyway, that's not the point -- the point is that phases are relevant (in the sense that portability requires thinking about them) even without procedural macros 19:18:31 Nevertheless, the right-hand side of a syntactic definition is expanded at the lowest phase. 19:18:52 Riastradh: i'm confused, which lowest phase? 19:19:02 Or rather, it is expanded at the same phase as the syntactic definition. 19:19:05 What is expanded at a higher phase is the body of an ER-MACRO-TRANSFORMER, SC-MACRO-TRANSFORMER, &c., form. 19:19:15 ok, i understand 19:19:24 So in (let-syntax ((f (er-macro-transformer E))) ...), (er-macro-transformer E) is expanded at phase 0, and E is expanded at phase 1. 19:19:41 so EXPR is at phase 0 19:19:48 Right. 19:20:23 This way, phase 1 &c. can have a totally empty environment by default and still work sensibly with SYNTAX-RULES. This also has several other consequences that make the macro expansion process simpler. 19:21:00 By contrast, in Scheme48 (and probably Racket, I imagine), phase 1, 2, 3, &c., all have a particular SCHEME structure open by default, as a special case. 19:21:14 (which adds some complications to the implementation, especially when it comes to bootstrapping the system) 19:21:22 although, it might be that if you restrict the RHS of let-syntax to be just (syntax-rules ...) then this doesn't matter, since my example is illegal 19:21:29 that's not what happens in Racket 19:21:51 in the lowest-level language, nothing is bound at any phase other than 0 19:22:18 in the `racket/base' language, only `syntax-rules' is bound at phase 1, and nothing at any other phase 19:22:43 in the `racket' language, all of `racket/base' is bound a phase 1, and nothing at any other phase 19:22:50 So in racket/base, (let-syntax ((f (let-syntax ...))) ...) doesn't work? 19:22:58 the Scheme48 behavior does indeed sound complicated 19:23:04 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:23:10 And in racket, (let-syntax ((f (let-syntax ((g (let-syntax ...))) ...))) ...) doesn't work? 19:23:16 you'd have to require `racket/base' (or somethign else) for phase 2 19:23:22 in order to make that work 19:23:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-101-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:23 rudybot: eval (let-syntax ([x (let-syntax ([y 1]) 2)]) 3) 19:24:24 samth: your sandbox is ready 19:24:24 samth: error: eval:1:32: compile: bad syntax; literal data is not allowed, because no #%datum syntax transformer is bound at phase 2 in: 1 19:24:44 rudybot: eval (require (for-meta 2 racket/base)) 19:24:44 samth: Done. 19:24:48 rudybot: eval (let-syntax ([x (let-syntax ([y 1]) 2)]) 3) 19:24:48 samth: ; Value: 3 19:24:54 Riastradh: as above 19:24:57 OK. So in Scheme48, and with riaxpander, that's not necessary -- LET-SYNTAX arbitrarily deep works by default with SYNTAX-RULES, or any similar macros that don't entail processing any subforms in higher phases. 19:25:26 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:25:32 that seems like it requires `syntax-rules' to be special in some way 19:25:49 as in, not just another binding on the RHS of a macro definition 19:25:50 No, it doesn't. 19:26:03 rather, reference on the RHS 19:26:12 (define-syntax syntax-rules (er-macro-transformer (lambda (e r c) `(,(r 'er-macro-transformer ...)))) 19:26:32 That's all you need, in phase 0. 19:27:05 i'm 12 and what is this 19:27:28 leppie, how's the inferator [tm]? 19:28:57 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 19:29:19 sorry, didn't look again, let-syntax hurt my brain 19:29:30 (Of course, in the module where you define SYNTAX-RULES, the phase 1 environment must have vanilla Scheme with LAMBDA, QUASIQUOTE, &c.) 19:32:51 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:33:29 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-101-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 19:38:10 foof, the description of CURRENT-SECOND is wrong... Also, what and why the heck are jiffies? 19:40:03 confab_ [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 19:41:20 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:42:26 foof, the number of seconds since 1970-01-01 at 00:00:10 in TAI is exactly the same as the number of seconds since 1972-01-01T00:00:00Z plus 63072000. The implication that that relation is low-accuracy or low-precision is wrong. I have no idea what `Universal Time' in the parenthesis is supposed to mean, although I'm guessing it means a sort of proleptic UTC. 19:43:22 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:45:24 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:02 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbedf9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:50:14 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f76929e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:29 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 19:53:19 It looks like I'll be speaking at LispNYC's September meetup (Tuesday the 13th at 7 PM) about R7RS-small, for anyone who's nearby enough to want to attend. 19:53:37 There will probably be some mention of the status of R7RS-large 19:54:18 jcowan: Oh cool! (I can't attend, but it's a neat idea.) 19:54:51 jcowan: If the meetup were, say, around the 25th, I could possibly swing it, but it's not, so. 19:54:58 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #scheme 20:03:19 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:06:14 A pity. 20:06:49 LispNYC meetings are always on second Tuesdays. Some are talks, others are social events. I just attended a talk night before last on the expression problem in Clojure. 20:07:03 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 20:07:09 What is the "expression problem"? 20:07:22 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:41 sjamaan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem 20:08:15 Across statically typed languages, if you adhere to the OO faith, you can easily add new types but not new operations without changing old code, whereas if you adhere to the FP faith, you can easily add new operations but not new types without changing old code. 20:08:56 Clojure has two solutions: CLOS-style multimethods (which are rather expensive) and something called protocols, which work something like Java interfaces except that they can be associated with existing classes post hoc. 20:09:04 isn't there a fundamental dichotomy between ADT's and OO? someone (maybe wadler?) has a paper describing how they are two sides of the same coin 20:09:10 Just so. 20:09:21 Interesting 20:09:37 There's a fundamental dichotomy between `OO' and reality. 20:09:48 heh 20:09:53 There's a fundamental dichotomy between "FP" and reality too. 20:10:13 -!- confab_ [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:10:17 i find that I program 90% using OO and 10% using ADT's 20:10:22 confab [~confab@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:33 No, `functional programming' has a clear definition that is connected to real engineering concepts. 20:10:33 yogurt_truck [~yogurt_tr@190.191.221.231] has joined #scheme 20:10:54 s/engineering/math 20:12:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:12:13 To be sure, the only reason adding new classes is possible in Java is the dynamic linker inside the VM. 20:13:08 arcfide [~arcfide@64.134.64.242] has joined #scheme 20:23:18 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-101-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:39 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:34:44 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@64.134.64.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:44 ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:49:24 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 20:53:15 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:28:52 arcfide [~arcfide@pool-96-231-37-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:33:59 demirr [~demirr@178.113.43.153.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #scheme 21:41:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:32 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:48 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Quit: Indian] 21:44:32 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:56 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-254-82-137.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:49:23 -!- demirr [~demirr@178.113.43.153.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 21:56:19 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:56:59 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:57:50 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 22:08:18 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-101-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 22:10:02 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 22:12:39 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04A9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:14:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:16:24 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:47 -!- soveran [~soveran@host186.190-136-33.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:02 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:47:25 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 22:54:46 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #scheme 22:55:53 What are these `phases' that people were talking about in here earlier? It's unusual for an entire conversation to go so completely over my head, and of course googling anything like `scheme phases' is entirely useless. :-) 22:56:05 But, a pointer on where to find out more would be greatly appreciated. 22:56:53 fds: There's a paper called You want it when? that's a good start. And then you can see Azizs paper called something like Implicit Phasing for R6RS Libraries. 22:57:19 And then of course, the R6RS document itself. 22:57:44 Ah. But, it's not mentioned in R5RS, right? 22:57:44 And the latest edition of TSPL gives some treatment of the subject, and probably some more references. 22:58:00 I have to confess being mostly ignorant of the R6RS document, to my shame. 22:58:11 R5RS didn't have macros where arbitrary code could be evaluated during expansion time, making the issue of phasing relatively moot. 22:59:21 Ah, okay. So these `phases' are similar to run-time/compile-time distinctions? 22:59:30 Some reading of the syntax-case papers and the issues surrounding macro systems in general will enlighten you on phasing. 22:59:35 Yes. 22:59:53 Okay, thanks for the tips, arcfide. :-) 23:15:48 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:15:48 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:17:38 -!- yogurt_truck [~yogurt_tr@190.191.221.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:42 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:27 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:38 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:21 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:44 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:32:44 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:41:05 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:44:36 pcavs [~paul@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:54:30 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:54:32 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:54:49 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:44 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:57:01 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:57:50 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@pool-96-231-37-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:12 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:59:18 hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:59:34 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59:45 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:59:56 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme