00:02:45 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-41-165.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:03:41 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-41-165.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 00:07:28 turbofail [~user@adsl-69-111-167-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:31 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:10:41 dnolen [~davidnole@71.249.148.232] has joined #scheme 00:29:04 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:45 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:42 Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 00:49:22 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:51:44 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:52:21 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:54 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:09 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:17 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:23 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:18 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:26 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:13:51 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:26 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:21:58 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:28 PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has joined #scheme 01:30:27 -!- zanes [~zane@mail.barackobama.com] has quit [] 01:31:11 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:12 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable110.176-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:32:46 -!- jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:38:31 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #scheme 01:39:04 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 01:39:08 If I write a define in the down window 01:39:15 does that fucntion will work 01:39:45 -!- oldpier [~oldpier@nusnet-185-65.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:40:20 (define (g x) 01:40:20 (+ x 10)) 01:40:25 g 2 01:40:32 gives me 2 01:41:59 -!- zelak_ [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:43:06 rudybot: eval (define (g x) (+ x 10)) 01:43:06 ski: Done. 01:43:11 rudybot: eval (g 2) 01:43:11 ski: ; Value: 12 01:43:14 rudybot: eval g 2 01:43:14 ski: ; Value: 2 01:43:23 rudybot: eval g 01:43:23 ski: ; Value: # 01:43:25 rudybot: eval 2 01:43:25 ski: ; Value: 2 01:44:43 -!- turbofail [~user@adsl-69-111-167-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:14 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:49:54 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 01:49:56 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 01:50:02 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:24 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: ZZZzzzzzz...] 01:52:12 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:52:22 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:57:30 sweet 01:57:53 but any one using racket 01:58:35 I am using racket 01:58:54 `g 2' consists of two expressions: `g' and `2'. 01:59:19 but can you write the define in down or upper window 01:59:20 First it tries to evaluate `g' - the result is a procedure, then it evaluates `2' - the result is number 2. 01:59:27 ok 01:59:29 You can in both 01:59:35 ok 01:59:39 but I recommend writing it in upper window 01:59:44 because you can save it and load later 01:59:47 ok 02:00:00 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:04 and when ever you write a define you need to run it? 02:01:49 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:13 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:32 I mean the run on the top 02:08:36 huh? The procedure application in lisp looks like this: (function arg1 arg2 ...) 02:08:53 So I guess you wanted to write (g 2) instead of `g 2' 02:09:58 jadams|home [~jadams@adsl-98-83-130-111.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:19 hellooooo 02:10:25 ohwow: nope 02:10:40 I am asking once you define you need to click run 02:10:52 on the top of the racket 02:11:24 I have to run emacs now I suppose.... (long time vim user / zealot, starting to work with scheme for shits and giggles and bookclub) 02:11:33 In DrRacket you have to run every time you add a new definition. 02:11:39 ok 02:11:45 (or change one) 02:12:04 It will warn you if the interactions window becomes out of date with the definitions. 02:13:30 jadams|home: I use vim with Scheme, but most people do swear by Emacs. 02:13:53 asumu, I'm alright with attempting to learn emacs for the time being 02:13:59 but I really am a die hard vim zealot 02:14:03 I teach people to use vim as part of my job 02:14:04 :) 02:15:44 you guys are students at school 02:17:23 The example section says give examples before testing 02:17:31 how will one can do that? 02:21:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@71.249.148.232] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:21:40 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:21:47 hoi 02:22:07 (define (area-of-ring outer inner) 02:22:07 (- (area-of-disk outer) 02:22:08 (area-of-disk inner))) 02:22:08 (define (area-of-ring outer inner) 02:22:08 (- (* 3.14 (* outer outer)) 02:22:08 (* 3.14 (* inner inner)))) 02:22:22 Is that a mistake in the text? 02:24:00 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:21 moin 02:26:15 ? 02:26:34 stepnem [~stepnem@90.177.119.176] has joined #scheme 02:26:44 please check the section 3 02:26:47 of the book 02:27:00 HtDP 02:28:03 Indian: its been noted in this eratta http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/typos.html 02:29:41 i found that in 20 seconds, i reccomend always looking for an errata/list of known mistakes if its on available online before asking. 02:30:43 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-150-109-116.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:08 The area-of-disk program ..." should be "The area-of-ring program 02:31:32 but the the are-of-disk is not in the define 02:32:09 yes it says in that document: " page 21: "The area-of-disk program ..." should be "The area-of-ring program ..." (R. Egli) "for process" should be "for a process" (D.P. Friedman) " 02:32:10 ok 02:32:11 I got it 02:35:55 :( i hate emacs 02:36:41 *foof* hits jadams|home on the head with the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual 02:37:30 foof: I'm just so....good....with vim 02:37:36 and such a retarded monkey butt in emacs 02:37:55 All you need to know, jadams|home, is C-h and M-x. 02:39:14 I will definitely turn on viper mode 02:45:20 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:45:50 pcavs [~paul@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:57:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.219] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 02:59:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:06:55 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #scheme 03:07:53 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:57 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has left #scheme 03:14:07 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 03:14:15 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:02 jadams|home: Viper may impede your ability to use Paredit. 03:16:18 jadams|home: And Paredit makes Scheme programming much, much more pleasant. 03:16:47 Viper may impede your ability. 03:16:53 :-) 03:22:53 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:23:14 The slimv script for vim, BTW, has a paredit mode. 03:23:17 I don't even know what paredit is :( 03:23:21 Though I think it's probably a bit buggy. 03:23:31 *asumu* has had a few issues with it 03:24:33 What's the point of using vi, other than following one's Unix mentor if one is a transitive mentee of Bill Joy? 03:27:56 jadams|home: Paredit is an editing mode for enhanced S-expression editing, written by Riastradh. Its major features include doing automatic bracket matching (so you never have to think about brackets when you code) and allowing you to move (S-expression) forms around with extreme ease. 03:28:23 Riastradh, I think in vi, straight up, and am extremely efficient in it 03:28:35 jadams|home: It has more features than those, but I'm a Paredit noob and haven't played with the other features yet. 03:28:36 jadams|home, yes, but why did you start using vi? 03:28:37 I've not known an emacs user that's faster in emacs than I am in vi, but I don't know too many emacs gurus either 03:28:50 Riastradh, I tried them both and vi felt better to me 03:29:15 more intuitive default keybindings, less magic incantations 03:29:31 (Full disclosure: I don't pay cky. He's much more enthusiastic about marketing paredit than I am. All I do is mention its existence occasionally.) 03:29:41 :-) 03:29:46 (But usually cky beats me even to that here in #scheme.) 03:30:19 jadams|home: I'm a vi user, and I'm much more adept at vi than Emacs. Even so, when I code in Scheme, I still use paredit. 03:30:55 paredit.vim 03:31:07 cky: that's fair, and that's what I think I'm going for. Having said that, if I feel that I can be more efficient in emacs I will switch to it 03:31:17 penryu: I'll try it out, but I thought vi is generally very bucky-key-hostile. 03:31:23 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:31:24 penryu: And paredit is very bucky-key-heavy. 03:31:45 paredit.vim doesn't exist. 03:31:51 Hmm. Maybe I ought to have registered paredit as a trademark. I don't think the idea of paredit makes sense at all in vi. 03:32:10 :-) 03:32:34 the thought of coding any lisp without paredit is terrifying in and of itself. 03:33:22 I am faster in vi than anything else ever written, but I've actually de-installed it from several of my boxes, forcing myself to get more fluent in emacs. 03:35:16 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:16 penryu: Haha, nice. 03:37:47 that's how I forced myself to learn vi as well, so I know it works. :) 03:40:16 damn terminal emulator is intercepting my paredit bindings. :-/ 03:40:56 There are some alternate key bindings for that reason, penryu. 03:41:56 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:48 yeah, I'm familiarizing myself with the alternates cuz I'm sick of M-x par-f-bar RET 03:43:10 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:57 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:46:35 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@90.177.119.176] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 03:46:37 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 03:46:40 parf-barf, hmm. 03:47:34 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 03:51:47 ok, found some that work consistently. 03:55:22 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:55:49 -!- jadams|home [~jadams@adsl-98-83-130-111.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:59:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:01:11 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:42 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:12:01 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:02 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Quit: Indian] 04:15:35 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:19:29 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.219] has joined #scheme 04:26:14 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:28:16 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:28:30 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:30:22 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:33:59 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:34:36 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34:51 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:41:41 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:14 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:48:17 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:51:46 nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 04:54:39 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:54:48 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 04:55:19 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:55:37 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:02:02 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:03:19 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:44:18 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:44:19 -!- nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:27 nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 05:44:48 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 05:45:52 Hi 05:45:55 (let ((reg '(#x20 #x28 #x04 #x120 #x08 #x00)))) 05:46:07 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 05:46:17 how do i print each of the values of reg? 05:50:53 (write reg) ? 05:52:15 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c33a.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 05:52:27 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:53:18 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #scheme 05:55:14 nataraj: (define print display) (map print reg) 05:56:34 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:03:02 yeah, (let ((reg '(#x20 #x28 #x04 #x120 #x08 #x00))) (write reg)) 06:04:22 But this form doesn't print each of the values of reg, it prints the value of reg in whole! 06:04:25 gives ,(32 40 4 288 8 0) 06:04:41 Yes, instead of each one in turn: 32 40 4 288 8 0 06:04:51 (let ((reg '(#x20 #x28 #x04 #x120 #x08 #x00))) (map print reg)) 06:05:15 gives 3240428880( ) 06:06:51 nataraj: yeah! That's because scheme is defective. In CL (mapcar 'print reg) would work. Let's repair scheme: (define (print object) (newline) (display object)) 06:08:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:10:23 The most common definition among Schemes is: 06:10:35 (define (print . args) (for-each display args) (newline)) 06:11:13 getting a final ( ) 06:11:44 Then you can say (for-each print reg) which will not display a final () in the REPL. 06:14:01 nataraj: I doubt it. At most, you'd get a final (). 06:14:05 -!- nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:34 nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 06:16:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.219] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 06:16:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-86-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:17:02 (let ((reg '(#x20 #x28 #x04 #x120 #x08 #x00))) (for-each print (car reg))) 06:17:09 prints 32 infinitely 06:18:04 was expecting just once 06:18:18 what broken implementation is that? 06:18:52 replore_ [~replore@g1-223-25-184-182.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:19:13 that was in armpit scheme 06:19:39 but gosh gives a stack trace: "*** ERROR: list required, but got 32" 06:20:04 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-78-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 06:21:10 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 06:21:54 http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ 06:22:34 what could be wrong? 06:23:56 same with (let ((reg '(#x20 #x28 #x04 #x120 #x08 #x00))) (map print (car reg))) too 06:23:57 nataraj: what is (car reg)? 06:24:58 #x20 06:26:14 What does map expect? 06:26:20 pjb, replace car with cdr , i get the rest of the list 06:26:31 list 06:27:12 you mean car dont give a list? 06:28:05 car gives the first element of a list. That could be a list. 06:28:07 thats what you want me to understand? 06:28:27 I don't know. What can you understand of it? 06:28:29 oh, itc it is not 06:28:50 -!- replore_ [~replore@g1-223-25-184-182.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:52 not a list 06:29:13 In this instance, yes. 06:29:21 Would you think that might be a problem? 06:29:58 yes 06:30:53 but then why the infinite output? 06:31:48 Bad implementation quality? 06:32:15 scheme doesn't specify that if you give an unexpected argument you should get an error. It doesn't specify how errors are handled... 06:32:51 so its about the implementation to handle those? 06:33:54 Armpit adheres to R5RS 06:34:01 You would expect an implementation to signal an error such as "32 is not a list". 06:34:18 But indeed, r5rs doesn't require implementations to do so. 06:34:24 Armpit adheres to r5rs. 06:34:39 ok, then dig into the assembly code 06:35:00 Or switch to CL. CL specifies more what happens in those cases. 06:35:23 (There are still a lot of points left up to the implementation, but much less than with scheme). 06:35:35 don't know if there is an implementation of CL on microcontroller 06:35:52 Ah, no. 06:36:57 In that case, scheme is a good choice. But try to find a scheme implementation to develop and debug, and use the microcontroller compiler only to compile debugged code. 06:37:47 in the asm code 'for-each' comes under sub-environment 06:38:29 "control features: map, for-each, force" 06:43:23 nataraj: Armpit Scheme is displaying two issues here. 1) (car x) and (cdr x) both return x when x is not a pair, which is a dubious mis-feature going even beyond the CL semantics for car and cdr of nil. 06:44:11 2) It's implementation of `map' and `for-each' check with `null?' for termination, without ensuring the argument is in fact a `pair?'. 06:44:48 These two combined means `map' and `for-each' will infinite loop on any non-proper list argument. 06:46:22 it takes as a list if terminated by 'null?'? 06:49:13 nataraj: Short explanation - armpit scheme is badly broken, do not use it 06:49:23 Racket would be more friendly. 06:50:17 maybe somebody can fix it? don't have a choice on my at91sam7se512 board 06:50:48 or else stick to plain ol' C language 06:55:01 chibi works on arm 06:55:58 i just looked at "challenges" 06:56:05 in the paper stamourv showed 06:56:09 foof, need to work without OS 06:56:26 and type-inferring 'or' expressions will be whole loads of non-fun i s'pose :( 06:56:53 ? 06:57:43 kab3wm [~kab3wm@ip68-104-164-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 06:58:27 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:08:32 nataraj: file a bug report to the armpit devs, they can fix it easily 07:08:46 done it 07:09:24 btw, is it easier in Arm asm than C? 07:17:21 no 07:19:15 -!- nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:58 nataraj [~user@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 07:23:53 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:16 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 07:33:22 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:52 fbass 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joined #scheme 10:15:53 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:04 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:21 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:22 note to self: don't build data structures out of conses, they make bugged cadars hard to notice until it's too late 10:20:41 why oh why doesn't r5rs have record types... 10:21:35 srfi-9 is your friend 10:29:21 unhygiene is nice ;) generating macros by calling functions that return lists.. fun 10:32:32 :) 10:32:57 i'm gonna have a function and a read-macro that lets one access toplevel bindings in macro expansions 10:33:02 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:33:07 to avoid shadowing toplevel bindings when the user does it 10:33:15 it "solves" hygiene 10:33:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 10:34:09 it doesn't at all ;) sometimes you *want* to capture or introduce identifiers 10:34:35 weirdo: I guess you're not going to support let-syntax? 10:34:47 Or syntax inside a let 10:35:28 sjamaan, i will, by means of riaxpadner 10:35:39 let is just lambda 10:36:10 Then where does this read syntax or function come in? 10:37:46 sjamaan, unhygienic macros 10:37:58 i will support both hygienic and non-hygienic 10:38:21 i only worry that the compiler will miscompile itself or just blow up when run inside a web browser 10:38:23 Then your non-hygienic macros can't be used inside a let or lambda 10:38:24 :( 10:38:26 Or in let-syntax 10:38:29 they can 10:38:35 because i store them inside a lexenv object 10:39:06 i can cons and later drop them 10:39:07 :) 10:39:42 So the function doesn't really access toplevel bindings, but bindings in the "current lexenv" 10:40:11 yes, but i have a '() for lexical, and (list '()) for toplevel if you know what i mean 10:40:29 so toplevel mutates, local conses 10:49:40 and in each variable binding, i store a macro-function 10:49:48 and i resolve first lexical, then toplevel 10:49:51 so it should be OK 10:53:59 also, my 'subtype?' function has no second argument, it always decides 10:54:08 because the type system is so damn stupid 10:54:39 but this might change after i added intersection types, they're hard 10:55:21 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:55:40 :( 10:57:15 djfklas [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 11:00:48 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:24 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:11:11 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 11:29:14 brabo [brabo@globalshellz/owner/brabo] has joined #scheme 11:46:23 -!- kab3wm [~kab3wm@ip68-104-164-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:46:44 kab3wm [~kab3wm@ip68-104-164-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined 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16:23:32 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 16:24:59 drracket is crashing unreliably, this time without "sig11 during gc" 16:25:01 platform is windows 16:25:21 Is this your hacked drracket with stuff ripped out? 16:28:08 no 16:28:13 it's regular 5.1.2 16:30:01 weirdo: Do you have some code that triggers that? Also, x86, or x64? 16:30:09 x64, both OS and racket 16:30:10 i don't 16:30:26 i'm writing seaking and it happens randomly every few hours 16:30:42 :-O 16:31:22 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Quit: Indian] 16:32:03 the file is very big because there's no ASDF in scheme 16:32:04 :-( 16:32:32 also, large variables list makes it unbearably slow 16:32:34 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:32:39 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 16:35:37 weirdo: There's no ASDF for Scheme but Racket does have PLaneT (and modules, obviously), which may or may not cover the ground you're looking to cover. 16:35:53 yeah, each impl has its own 16:35:58 chicken has eggs, for instance 16:36:01 Yep. 16:36:01 this is bad 16:37:29 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 16:43:11 kubrat [~scoopio@datacentre.serendipity-interactive.com] has joined #scheme 16:43:41 -!- kubrat [~scoopio@datacentre.serendipity-interactive.com] has left #scheme 16:44:33 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:49:29 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:19 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4317C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:02:41 pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c1e0.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 17:30:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:21 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:40:46 jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:10 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:49:35 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:49:49 phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has joined #scheme 17:50:01 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:07 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:06 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:34 That may be bad, but ASDF is worse... 17:57:18 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:33 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 18:14:00 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:17:03 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:57 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 18:23:12 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 18:40:55 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:52:47 guys, will adding type negation make my stuff indecidable? 18:52:51 un* 18:52:54 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:55:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:58:15 -!- phao [~phao@pontenova.dpi.ufv.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:04 weirdo: What I don't understand is, if you're making a Scheme->JS compiler (where both Scheme and JS have dynamic typing), why are you trying to make a static type inference system? 18:59:22 cky, performance. type dispatch for numbers is very expensive 18:59:41 Okay, but you can't control the number type dispatching at the JS level. 19:00:08 cky, i do type-dispatch for complex, rational, bigint, js int types 19:00:12 s/js int/js float/ 19:00:39 and it's especially expensive because compilers can optimize non-"virtual" method calls 19:00:39 Doesn't JS have uniform handling for float and bignums? 19:00:48 js doesn't have bignums 19:00:50 i use a library 19:00:58 Hmm. 19:00:59 Nope, cky. It's all floating-point! 19:01:17 :-( 19:01:18 The technical term for this approach to language design is `lunacy'. 19:01:37 Riastradh, JS isn't that bad a language as you one might think 19:01:42 though you're right on this point 19:01:58 s/you one/one 19:02:12 it has almost-lexical scope and it's pretty expressive 19:02:37 it makes compiling scheme rather easy compared to what i'd have to do in a language without, say, closures 19:07:24 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c1e0.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 19:08:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:10:40 ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:10:56 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:41 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:22:24 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC059A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:18 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:57 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #scheme 19:29:54 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-151-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:34:28 tricus [~tricus@160.36.203.216] has joined #scheme 19:34:52 -!- tricus [~tricus@160.36.203.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:09 tricus [~tricus@160.36.203.216] has joined #scheme 19:35:25 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #scheme 19:39:38 EbiDK_ [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 19:40:17 -!- EbiDK_ [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:15 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:54 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:02:50 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:02 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 20:07:33 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 20:08:12 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:38 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:36 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:02 If I pick a book does that says LISP 20:14:13 does it likely to teach common LISP? 20:14:40 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:14:47 It is likely outdated and not very interesting. (And I think you mean `Common Lisp'.) 20:14:48 Not necessarily. 20:15:12 E.g., Lisp in Small Pieces 20:17:21 So when some say I know LISP 20:17:29 is that mean common LISP or scheme? 20:17:48 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:00 Lisp nowadays means a family of languages. If you say just "lisp", it means you know a probably parenthesized language with garbage collection and lambdas. 20:25:00 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:18 i wonder how many elisp users there are relative to scheme and CL 20:25:32 Indian: Some people consider "Lisp" to mean CL, but you should be specific when possible. 20:25:37 Indian: Also, Lisp, not LISP. 20:25:57 ok 20:26:18 what is eLisp 20:26:21 I know that CL likes to write everything in caps by default, but there's really less need to shout than you think. 20:26:30 Indian: Emacs Lisp. 20:26:35 ok 20:26:35 Indian: Emacs Lisp is the language used for writing large parts of Emacs. 20:26:47 Indian: It's used to write Emacs extensions, also. 20:26:51 ok 20:28:04 so can I say I am learning Lisp child Scheme 20:28:55 That's a strange way to put it, but yes, Scheme is a member of the Lisp family. 20:29:07 People usually call them dialects 20:29:17 That. 20:29:49 or you could just say you're learning scheme 20:30:26 Hail, Scheme: the son of Lisp, the son of IPL! 20:30:37 ok 20:30:44 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/108201/common-lisp-or-scheme 20:31:09 what's IPL? 20:31:33 turbofail: Information Processing Language 20:31:35 Hmm it says Common Lisp is more real wolrd engineering language 20:31:52 turbofail: Had some primitive, assembly-style list-processing. 20:31:52 whiel scheme is more theoretically "pure" language 20:32:14 hmm 20:32:59 That's questionable. The most that can be said is: specification of CL > specification of Scheme. 20:33:07 "According to Simon's autobiography Models of My Life, this first application [for IPL] was developed first by hand simulation, using his children as the computing elements, while writing on and holding up note cards as the registers which contained the state variables of the program." 20:33:12 Anything beyond that can be considered speculation. 20:33:22 That's cool: I wonder if that's like naming your kids "Car" and "Cdr". 20:33:58 Cdr, I think, would suffer from a sense of inadequacy; though. 20:34:01 load of bull. CL is hardly useful for Real Work 20:34:06 it doesn't have any libraries 20:34:11 neither does Scheme, for that matter 20:34:16 and then there's that . that's always separating them. 20:35:29 penryu: Maybe `.' is like the belly-button: some sort of vestigial womb-organ. 20:35:31 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:18 most of the "Real Work" i do in lisp ends up being done in elisp 20:36:50 Is customising one's .emacs Real Work? :-) 20:36:50 which is tragic, because elisp is a huge pile of shit 20:37:33 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 20:37:54 does a pdf parser count as "customizing one's .emacs"? 20:41:34 Ooh, fancy. I'd guess that Elisp is by far the most used Lisp, but I'm not sure it'd be as far ahead in terms of Real Work. (Perhaps we could take PDF parsers as a case study and see how many are around in different Lisps.) 20:42:02 By `we' I, of course, mean `someone else'. :-) 20:43:14 I just read a case-study yesterday about a 1.5-decade--Emacs-user that ditched his .emacs for ESK. 20:44:06 Here, , as a matter of fact. 20:44:14 Not sure I'm similarly inclined. 20:44:38 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:14 What's esk? 20:46:21 well i know there's cl-pdf 20:46:26 dunno about pdf libraries for scheme 20:46:44 More importantly, what interesting remotely exploitable vulnerabilities does your elisp PDF parser exhibit? 20:47:01 (It must have some; it wouldn't be a proper PDF parser if it didn't.) 20:47:16 well it doesn't execute any scripts, so that already makes it not quite proper 20:47:43 turbofail: cl-pdf is for generating pdf, not for parsing, right? 20:47:50 mario-goulart: it can also parse them 20:47:56 Ah, ok. 20:48:07 Riastradh: strictly speaking i think most of the vulnerabilities are in the rendering part, not the parsing 20:48:39 i don't really do any rendering 20:48:41 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:51 Well, OK, fair enough. 20:48:52 the cl-pdf home page just mentions the generating part. 20:50:00 i've used cl-pdf to take existing documents and add various things to every page and such 20:50:28 kind of has to be able to parse it for that 20:50:53 I see. 20:51:36 also i read some of the code for the parser 20:56:55 What is funny is that CL provides saner names for "car" and "cdr" than Scheme. 20:57:30 (Same for "cadr", "caddr", "cadddr" and few others.) 20:58:29 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 20:58:34 ASau: So does SRFI 1. 20:58:37 ASau: What's your point? 20:59:13 CL doesn't require "RFI" for that :D 20:59:45 ASau: That's a philosophical difference, then. 20:59:49 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 20:59:58 ASau: CL is about maximalism. Scheme is not. 21:00:25 It is another way around. 21:00:33 The point is that CL provides two operators for the same thing, I guess. 21:00:35 Scheme is about minimalism, CL is not. 21:01:17 ASau: Same deal. What's your point? It's like one guy saying their deity is called Yahweh and another saying it's Allah. One isn't "righter" than the other. 21:01:19 *ASau* wonders sometimes why Scheme has numbers at all. 21:01:31 Because it's not lambda calculus. 21:01:32 ASau, just to baffle you. 21:01:56 cky, actually, it's not a philosophical difference; it's an argumentative difference, and it worked! 21:02:00 *poof* 21:02:21 cky: it was argued and decided that Yahweh isn't Allah. 21:02:42 cky: the opposite is herecy since 900-ies. 21:02:49 (hint hint -- *poof*) 21:03:16 (Or maybe longer, I don't remember exactly.) 21:06:27 is there an SRFI for pattern matching? or does everybody just use andrew wright's syntax? 21:07:13 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:09:56 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 21:18:38 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:30:11 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:28 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #scheme 21:37:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:38:45 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:53:42 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56:39 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:57:58 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:30 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:07:07 turbofail: I've been using foof's implementation of match for a few years; is there anything wrong with Wright's stuff? Maybe we should ask him to write a SRFI. 22:12:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:12:37 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:14:07 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:18:36 nothing wrong with it, just wondering if there was an actual standard 22:26:25 charli [~charli@e181221205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:27:10 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:34 -!- charli [~charli@e181221205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 22:30:56 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:32:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:38:06 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:01 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:44:08 -!- tricus [~tricus@160.36.203.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:10 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 22:49:52 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:46 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-172-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:46 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-172-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:53 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 22:57:01 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:02:19 -!- PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:03:04 PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has joined #scheme 23:07:49 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:29 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:27 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:14 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 23:26:32 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:10 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #scheme 23:47:14 clivehayward [~cdh@pix39.systemsbiology.net] has joined #scheme 23:51:30 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbedfae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:12 -!- clivehayward [~cdh@pix39.systemsbiology.net] has quit [Quit: clivehayward] 23:54:07 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 23:54:33 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme