00:01:10 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 00:02:52 jcowan: Does that mean you'll include the `gh' digraph for good measure? (I'm not sure whether a voiceless velar fricative is required, though, in that case.) 00:04:07 It's been silent a long time. 00:04:50 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-237-46.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:51 Damn; what a missed opportunity to sound Scottish. 00:08:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:12:19 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:52 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed291.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:00 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 00:23:59 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f7696be.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 00:24:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:56 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:57:32 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-234-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:03:27 -!- tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03:33 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 01:06:24 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:36 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:27 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #scheme 01:13:07 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:13:16 foof: ping 01:18:06 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:18:28 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 01:19:20 -!- PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:21:30 PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has joined #scheme 01:22:51 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:56 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:54:07 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:54:22 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:54:26 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 01:56:44 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 02:00:38 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:01:21 -!- xvilka [~xvilka@ip-79-111-220-160.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:30 xvilka [~xvilka@ip-79-111-220-160.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #scheme 02:02:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:45 tupi [~david@189.60.162.202] has joined #scheme 02:03:48 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 02:34:15 acho 02:34:20 er, "och" 02:34:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-200-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:36 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-200-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:44:28 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:33 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:51 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:49:31 jcowan: pong 02:49:34 copumpkin [~pumpkin@h-67-101-72-35.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #scheme 02:49:40 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@h-67-101-72-35.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:49:40 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:51:11 foof: I was hoping we could come to convergence on module factoring or binary ports or both; have a few to discuss them? 02:54:43 Sort of... may get distracted, I'm doing 10 things at once at work right now... 02:54:47 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:57:55 To clarify, I think spec lists are the best alternative I've seen so far, but not significantly so, and I'm not convinced it belongs in WG1. 02:58:22 Do you accept my argument that embedded systems need to be able to shut off buffering? 02:58:45 Especially since the cost of postponing the decision is just two procedures, open-binary-{input,output}-file, which become slightly redundant but still convenient even if we switch to file specs in WG2. 02:59:06 No, I have _no_ idea what you're talking about there, please respond to my mail :) 02:59:15 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 03:00:50 I'm happy to move the read/write-blob and utf8<->string utilities to a separate item. 03:00:54 Already done. 03:01:26 Okay. I like your call-with-port, except I think it should be call-with-{input,output}-port, since we do not have close-port. 03:01:59 `call-with-port' is R6RS 03:02:15 I thought we added `close-port'? 03:02:26 raise-drawbridge 03:08:27 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 13:20:11 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 13:20:11 13:20:11 -!- names: ccl-logbot gravicappa dnolen soveran mmc gnomon zmv Modius tauntaun X-Scale` Skitter Pepe_ bombshelter13b Arafangion Leonidas pdelgallego pjb Jafet alfa_y_omega tab1ta kennyd masm wingo hkBst MichaelRaskin cky penryu bremner ineiros githogori daedric rpg Cowmoo leppie xvilka PreciousMetals XTL pygospa gienah stepnem elly REPLeffect vk0 pchrist EarlGray AtnNn faze` DGASAU Nisstyre bzzbzz ski mornfall finnrobi snorble Khisanth duncanm sjamaan incubot 13:20:11 -!- names: mutewit jeff_ ada2358 pothos framling wilx_ futilius dsp_ mario-goulart turbofail nowhereman _p4bl0 Nshag Hal9k cmatei amoe joast evhan ASau C-Keen acarrico alaricsp z0d elflng ToxicFrog araujo em shardz dfeuer martinhex Euthydemus clog snarkyboojum jimrees_ peterhil yell0 Quetzalcoatl_ sloyd tali713 zanea augiedoggie thoolihan aoh Intensity preflex gabot danking Adrinael tessier rapacity ecraven docgnome lusory Obfuscate takamoron rotty_ kanru levi @eli 13:20:11 -!- names: arbscht wtetzner xale cbrannon ray eno stchang micro yosafbridge ohwow xian weinholt zbigniew antoszka samth ivartj felipe Axioplase_ askhader shachaf moll rudybot sir_lewk ve inimino tizoc kba erg offby1 fbs ozzloy cipher stamourv foof aking Zol dRbiG tonyg fds poucet DerGuteMoritz kandinski klutometis 13:20:11 -asimov.freenode.net:#scheme- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 13:22:07 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 13:27:38 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 13:32:26 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:13 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.133.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:32 X-Scale` [email@2001:470:1f08:b3d::2] has joined #scheme 13:43:10 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 13:46:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:48:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:57:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:58:01 copumpkin [~pumpkin@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #scheme 13:58:01 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:01 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 13:58:15 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:37 twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 14:06:50 -!- twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:06:56 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 14:07:53 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:10:52 pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.190] has joined #scheme 14:11:24 What's the simplest way of representing a binary tree using S-Expressions ? I was thinking about (root (left-tree) (right-tree)) 14:13:59 (left . right) 14:13:59 soveran [~soveran@186.136.125.104] has joined #scheme 14:14:24 Where would I store the value of the node ? 14:15:01 If only leaf nodes have a value, they could be a different type than a pair 14:15:02 <_p4bl0> (node-data . (left-child . right-child)) ; (node-data . #f) for leaves 14:15:03 ok...maybe you mean (root (left-tree . right-tree)) 14:15:37 Otherwise (data left right) 14:15:48 Yes. I'll try that approach. Thanks. 14:16:42 I use (left right data) :| 14:18:04 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.136.125.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:52 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:25:01 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has joined #scheme 14:27:19 pcavs_ [~pcavallar@63.139.127.6] has joined #scheme 14:27:31 I use records. Bwahahaha! 14:27:45 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:30:14 <_p4bl0> ohwow: this makes sense if you go "down" in your tree more often than you read the data 14:30:33 <_p4bl0> (for instance if you read the data only on the leaves) 14:41:02 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:03 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-167.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 15:03:28 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-167.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 15:05:13 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:07:12 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 15:08:06 I like _p4bl0's structure too, except that for leaves I'd use (node-data) (i.e., (node-data . ())). 15:08:31 So thus, your nodes are either (node-data left-child . right-child) or (node-data). 15:09:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:09:34 There's no real practical difference between the two representations; just that one is easier for the human reader. 15:09:52 <_p4bl0> cky: that's better, I think I would actually have done this but I didn't have to implement bintrees in scheme yet, i just wrote the code here 15:11:33 -!- wilx_ [wilx@shell.sh.cvut.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:15:55 The Lisp world needs a name for the type "a pair or ()" 15:20:22 "List node" is too narrow; "tree node" too wide, because there are other kinds of trees beside the "native" binary trees built directly on pairs. 15:25:41 true 15:26:20 oops, wrong window 15:29:49 HG` [~HG@p5DC05ED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:29:53 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:30:56 asynchrony [~user@adsl-184-42-13-228.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:20 wilx [wilx@shell.sh.cvut.cz] has joined #scheme 15:36:49 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-237-46.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:38:53 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-49-200.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 15:40:27 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:10 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:44:46 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-49-200.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:18 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 15:47:55 Riastradh: "    ,        ." 15:48:22 Darn...apparently I don't have the necessary fonts. 15:48:48 Should only make it better. 15:49:12 i had that reaction recently when trying to display http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm 15:49:32 Besides, I'm not sure it's a valid translation. I may have missed some of the nuances of the #s. 15:50:05 wingo: What, you expected a picture of a pile of poo? 15:50:31 i did! 15:52:41 we could make an alternate scheme in which all identifiers are emoji 15:53:13 wingo: You'll need a proper binding for `else'. 15:54:08 eli: a bound literal, of course 15:55:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:44 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:01:11 wingo: http://gawker.com/5499182/someone-left-a-giant-pile-of-poo-at-an-east-village-bank may be helpful 16:01:12 http://tinyurl.com/yg6h3u2 16:02:32 Should be SFW, the manure is well-rotted 16:07:49 taylanub [~taylanub@85.108.229.225] has joined #scheme 16:08:41 pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.190] has joined #scheme 16:13:39 how do i do "indirection" in scheme ? like (define ++ (lambda (n) (set! n (+ n 1)))) ; this one only increments the local copy since variables are passed by value 16:15:04 the question is ill-posed, but the answer to this particular construct is macros. 16:16:23 how would you word that question in lisp-talk ? 16:17:11 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 16:18:32 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@host7-211-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:23 taylanub, easy, except that ++ is not a readable symbol: (define inc! (lambda (fetch store!) (store! (+ 1 (fetch]. Use like this: (inc! (lambda () n) (lambda (n*) (set! n n*] 16:20:43 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:20:48 ++ is readable in the r7 draft :) 16:21:24 (guile accepted it .. i'll inform myself about the standards eventually) 16:22:57 i think riastradh's answer was good for redirection; but for inc!, you usually want it to be a macro 16:23:12 *indirection, rather 16:23:25 Some Schemes will accept just about anything as a readable symbol, but that's treading in dangerous water -- it lends itself to very confusing errors if you're not careful. For example, +i definitely does not read as a symbol; nor does +0.i or -0.i -- but what should -0.j be? 16:24:14 (An engineer's answer is that obviously it should read just like -0.i, of course, but if you were an engineer you would be using Fortran or Matlab (depending on how old your thesis advisor was), not this silly obscure `Scheme' thing.) 16:25:24 heh 16:25:53 i find Riastradh's inc! above quite brainfuck by the way, to be honest 16:26:47 What's wrong with it? It's not much different from &n in C, except that you can make `*x' and `*x = y' (i.e., (fetch) and (store! y)) behave independently. 16:27:34 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:28:10 not saying there's anything wrong with it. i just found it overly complicated, might be just something wrong with me. 16:28:23 (e.g. being a lisp noob) 16:28:26 taylanub: Actually, it's very functional. 16:28:39 Functional? The mutation is functional? 16:28:40 taylanub: So once you get your head around functional programming, all this is like a walk in the park. :-) 16:28:57 Riastradh: The mutation isn't, but it's hidden behind functions. 16:29:22 That doesn't make it functional... (fetch) yields different values at different times. 16:29:50 True. I was more thinking about the "higher order functions" side of functional, not the "stateless" side of functional. 16:29:59 But your point is, of course, very valid. 16:30:44 taylanub: http://codesearch.google.com/#search/&q=%22define-syntax%20inc!%22&type=cs 16:30:56 Lol. 16:31:38 I wish Google Code Search didn't require JavaScript. It's frustratingly superfluous, and full of glitches. 16:32:04 Anyway, speaking of different values at different times, it's now time for lunch. 16:32:11 there are some terrible examples there :P 16:32:16 bon ap' 16:34:20 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #scheme 16:43:18 is there no way to 'evaluate' symbols, like 'foo ? 16:44:09 JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-96-236-166-197.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:44:50 what do you want them to evaluate to? 16:45:04 asumu [~opera@c-71-232-32-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:45:09 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 16:45:21 'foo would evaluate to foo ? 16:45:52 doesn't it do that now? 16:46:19 evaluate it twice i mean then 16:46:54 sure, use eval? 16:48:56 -!- asumu [~opera@c-71-232-32-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:52:33 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:54:12 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 17:10:32 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 17:10:59 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05ED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:57 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:14 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:53 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-104.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:28:50 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-234-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:29:25 soveran [~soveran@190.19.155.129] has joined #scheme 17:30:42 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:04 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:42 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:32:47 -!- soveran [~soveran@190.19.155.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:54 soveran_ [~soveran@190.19.155.129] has joined #scheme 17:37:42 -!- soveran_ [~soveran@190.19.155.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:08 djcb [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:40:24 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 17:41:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:42:18 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 17:42:42 Riastradh: Surely a sensible Scheme would interpret -0.j as 0.0+0.0i-0.0j+0.0k? 17:42:49 arrgh, ww 17:43:12 or no, rw, misleading ChanServ message 17:43:16 That's what an Irish Schemer would say, jcowan. 17:43:29 (I don't know what an Irish engineer would say, though.) 17:43:36 Irish in the sense of being from Ireland, or in the sense of Irish bull? 17:44:13 I might be described as a Hiberno-Deutsch Schemer 17:46:44 In the sense of being from Ireland, like that Will chap who chiselled a related formula on a bridge after a slight upset of the mind on his morning walk one day. 17:47:03 Ah. 17:47:08 He surely was not Irish. 17:47:44 Born in Ireland, I grant you. 17:48:32 *jcowan* also notes that Olinde Rodrigues had discovered them three years before, though without so spiffy a name. 17:49:12 WP carefully says "first described" (i.e. in the literature) by Hamilton 17:49:13 Hmmm. spiffy. 17:49:35 We will ignore Gauss's original discovery more than twenty years before. We can't all be Gausses. 17:49:42 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:49:49 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has left #scheme 17:49:57 We can't even all be degaussed. 17:50:02 Gauss discovered/invented everything but was too lazy to write it all down. 17:50:36 Consequently only half of everything is named after him. 17:51:50 Just so. 17:52:01 masm [~masm@bl15-234-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 17:52:26 And a Good Thing Too, otherwise we'd be saying things like "Hand me that Gauss so I can degauss the gauss." 17:52:56 (meaning, of course, "Hand me that spatula so I can flip the omelet.") 17:53:15 *jcowan* reflects on quaternions, rotation groups, and omelets. 17:57:49 now I am hungry 17:58:12 -!- Kajtek is now known as szkla 17:58:19 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 17:58:23 -!- szkla is now known as Kajtek 17:59:29 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:56 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:02:00 *jcowan* notes with help from WP that a quaternion can be written as (a+bi)+(c+di)j, thus making it a "complex complex number" 18:02:06 pcavs_1 [~paul@63.139.127.6] has joined #scheme 18:02:28 *ski* . o O ( Cayley-Dickson construction ) 18:09:00 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:10:09 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11:48 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:28 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 18:14:56 jcowan_ [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:19:06 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:18 -!- jcowan_ [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:49 pandeiro 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[~user@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:23 tab1ta [~tab1ta@host7-211-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 21:31:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:11 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:44:11 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:52:36 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 21:54:08 otherzmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:58:39 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:00:44 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:07:53 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:11:15 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:12:18 -!- otherzmv is now known as zmv 22:22:29 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 22:26:27 -!- JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-96-236-166-197.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@38.104.194.118] has joined #scheme 22:34:33 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:36:55 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 22:47:13 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 22:49:05 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:40 parolang [~parolang@adsl-69-214-159-162.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:07 I hope beginner questions are okay. Is there a way to create a new port without opening a file? 22:53:25 you can create ports from strings 22:53:33 (open-input-string "foo") 22:53:48 Or maybe I don't understand the concept of a port, but I thought I could create a port, call it p, write to it using write-line, and then read from it with read-line. 22:53:56 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:58 Hmm, okay. 22:54:19 It is possible but a port is not a memory. So what do you expect? 22:54:43 racket has make-output-port 22:54:46 what scheme system are you using? 22:54:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:54:53 What does "is not a memory" mean? I thought it was like a stream. 22:54:57 guile 22:55:25 I'm mainly sticking to standard scheme at this point, so I can change if I want to. 22:56:04 Okay, I get it, open-input-string returns a port. I thought there would be a define-port or something. 22:58:06 does guile have that? 22:58:12 Oh, read-line, write-line aren't standard. My bad. Read works. 22:58:18 Yeah, it has open-input-string. 22:58:52 But this seems to work (define p (open-input-string "blah")) (read p) => blah 22:58:58 parolang: I mean that you should not expect to read back what you wrote. 22:59:22 pjb: Isn't that what I just did? 22:59:45 You just read, You didn't just write and read. 23:00:12 So you can only do one or the other with a port? 23:00:25 (Yeah, I just confirmed what you just said. Can't write to p.) 23:01:58 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:21 I guess this is mainly meant for file io, because I don't see the point of a port that you can only write to or only read from. 23:03:57 Well the data goes to somewhere, or comes from somewhere, usually. The point is that somewhere. 23:04:20 Other than a file, what else can you do with it? 23:04:58 For example, you can process a string with I/O procedures. So your program can be the same whether it reads data from files or data from strings. 23:06:06 Okay, so have to separately open a string input port and then a string output port. 23:06:23 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:06:55 parolang: yes. In the case of strings however, there's no standard port doing I/O on the same string. You can read xor write a string, not read and write. 23:07:42 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:04 Well, if you write to a string, how do you retrieve the string after you close the port? 23:09:09 get-output-string 23:09:30 Yep, just found it. I'll just read the manual for a while. I think I'm starting to get it. 23:09:43 Thanks. 23:11:40 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:20:59 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:13 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-234-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:30:00 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:32:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:11 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.190] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 23:33:40 Can anyone explain this: (define q (open-output-string)) (write "blah" q) (get-output-string q) $1 = "\"blah\"" 23:33:53 Why does my output have quotation mark characters in it? 23:34:25 Because the written representation of the string with the characters `blah' is `"blah"'. 23:34:58 parolang: try display. 23:36:15 (display (get-output-string)) gives me "blah" 23:36:21 And I don't understand Riastradh 23:36:27 And I don't understand Riastradh's answer. 23:36:59 parolang, suppose you wanted to express a string in a source file. For example, you want to define the variable X to have as its value the string of the characters `frob'. Would you write (define x frob), or (define x "frob")? 23:37:23 Try: (read (open-input-string (get-output-string q))) 23:37:38 If you use write, you get "blah"; if you use display, y ou get the symbol blah. 23:38:07 pjb: read works 23:38:28 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:32 Yes, implementations are not broken usually. 23:38:34 Riastradh: The latter. 23:40:03 But...how do I write to the port without the quotation characters? 23:40:15 parolang, right. So that's exactly what you get if you use WRITE to write a list of the symbol DEFINE, the symbol X, and the string having the text `frob': `(define x "frob")', not, say, `(define x frob)'. And WRITE works recursively, so if you write *only* the string of the text `frob', the output you will get is `"frob"'. 23:40:48 You probably want to use DISPLAY, or WRITE-STRING, not WRITE. 23:41:52 Hmm...I guess I'll figure out write sometime later. Sounds interesting though. 23:46:13 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:46:42 Ah...yet, display is what I want. Thanks. 23:46:48 *yep 23:47:42 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:34 kniu [~kniu@pool-96-250-3-60.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:54 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@host7-211-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]