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[Quit: Leaving...] 03:53:00 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53:44 tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has joined #scheme 04:04:52 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 04:07:06 kniu [~kniu@pool-96-250-3-60.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:45 aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has joined #scheme 04:23:55 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 04:24:21 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 04:25:57 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:29:07 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 04:29:20 hello all 04:30:06 is the (begin implicit when a definition contains multiple s-expressions? 04:30:16 for e.g. (define (foo) (display "hello\n") (display "world\n")) 04:30:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-125-145.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #scheme 04:32:56 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:34:31 chemuduguntar : yes. also with the body of `let' (and friends) 04:38:12 compare with 04:38:12 http://tinyurl.com/yaqadkd 04:38:20 r5rs lambda 04:38:21 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_96 04:38:21 http://tinyurl.com/3vl8gz 04:38:27 r5rs let 04:38:27 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_124 04:38:28 http://tinyurl.com/695ay7 04:40:20 so a `' in all those is a sequence of zero or more definitions followed by a sequence of one or more expressions (only the value(s) of the last expression is kept) 04:42:38 i think one usually says that `lambda' and `let' (and the shortcut form of `define') has an "implicit `begin'" 04:43:31 (confusingly, though, the "body" of a `begin' is *not* an "implicit `begin'", so you can't put definitions inside an explicit `begin', only expressions) 04:46:36 -!- aspect [~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org] has left #scheme 04:47:04 That depends on where you put it, ski. 04:47:34 (lambda () (begin (define x 0)) x) is perfectly valid. 04:49:32 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:53:06 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:35 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 05:04:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:46 oh, sorry. you're right. i was talking only about expressions `(begin ..forms..)', here, not `begin'-definitions (which i had momentarily forgot about) 05:10:25 *ski* always thought that overloading of `begin' a bit confusing 05:12:42 (and i don't recall whether `(lambda (frob) (define foo 2) (begin (define bar 3) (frob foo)) bar)' is valid or not) 05:21:12 That's not valid in the R6RS, although I don't think there's any sensible reason to reject it. 05:21:23 ...R5RS, I mean. 05:21:29 It may be valid in the R6RS; I don't know. 05:25:25 -!- tupi 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seconds] 07:24:43 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 07:32:58 -!- saccade [~saccade@74-95-7-186-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:42:02 stis [~stis@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 07:45:02 -!- pyrony_ [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:48:48 masm [~masm@bl15-71-105.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 07:49:48 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:49:53 wingo [~wingo@mna75-7-82-230-83-86.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:52 skld [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has joined #scheme 07:57:15 Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-iyzrjlpddcwqldmg] has joined #scheme 07:58:39 hello. I have a list and want to compare each value with previous and next value from the same list. 1) Is this the correct datatype for this? 2) Any advices for a strategy (performance)? The list may have several thousand values. 08:06:47 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:07:36 -!- twem2_ is now known as twem2 08:12:03 -!- skld [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has left #scheme 08:33:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 08:59:02 -!- tildeleb [~leb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tildeleb] 09:13:41 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 09:29:30 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:37 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 09:47:08 -!- wingo [~wingo@mna75-7-82-230-83-86.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:58:19 tricus [~tricus@h69-130-142-158.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #scheme 10:01:15 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 10:26:36 ijp [~user@host109-153-23-149.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:34:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:03:19 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:03:34 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:23 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:18:34 steshaw [~steshaw@60-240-111-207.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 11:23:08 -!- steshaw [~steshaw@60-240-111-207.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 11:28:16 sorry for the repost, but I think it was too early the first time: I have a list and want to compare each value with previous and next value from the same list. 1) Is this the correct datatype for this? 2) Any advices for a strategy (performance)? The 11:28:20 list may have several thousand values. 11:29:12 Nils^: do you want to do it for an arbitrary element, or traverse the list once and do it for every element? that latter sounds ok, the former sounds not good for a list. 11:29:50 the first. A quick example: 11:31:04 '(1 2 3 4 5) and I map a list of functions to each "position". Position is not list-ref but whaI'm searching for. For example the first test is (if (> current next)) and the second is (if (= n previous next) 11:31:35 the mapping of functions is done. I just need an elegant way to get those current, next, previous positions for each iteration of (map= 11:31:38 ) 11:31:44 I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but you should look at vectors 11:32:42 oh, there were three options in your question. I meant "Traverse the list once and do it for every element" 11:32:50 not arbitrary. 11:33:11 oh, ok, then lists are fine, just pass around an extra value for the previous element. 11:34:47 Nils^: what's the previous element of the first? What's the next element of the last? 11:34:58 Those are the essential questions. 11:35:21 exactly 11:35:30 Also, what's the previous and next element of zero, one or two-element lists? 11:35:42 sjamaan: those cases will not happen 11:36:01 famous last words ;) 11:36:25 Nils^: I don't know if you want to have a sliding window or want to invoke it every three items, but you could use (map foo lst (cdr lst) (cddr lst)) 11:36:32 My first impulse was to copy the list two times, delete the first; append something; equalize. 11:36:35 This would invoke foo with prev, current, next 11:37:11 sjamaan: yes, but that leaves the question of the unequal lenghts 11:37:12 (assuming srfi-1 map) 11:37:13 Nils^: no need to copy: (map (lambda (previous element next) ...) (cons #f list) list (cdr list)) 11:37:33 Nils^: It will ignore any trailing elements. The first element is skipped 11:37:47 Nils^: but since you didn't answer the essential questions, it may be wrong. 11:37:55 Or what pjb said, then it will do the first element with #f as prev 11:38:24 pjb: I have no answer to that question, thats why I'm here. (map (lambda (previous element next) ...) (cons #f list) list (cdr list)) was my first impulse. 11:38:55 Nils^: We can't answer that question for you. It's your program 11:39:59 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:06 I think it comes down to this. I have a proc that wants n arguments, but map delievers only n-1. How to deal with that? Since the normal case gives an error: (map list (list 1 2 3) (list 'a 'b 'c 'd) 11:41:53 I think that returns '((1 a) (2 b) (3 c)) 11:41:58 (assuming map from srfi-1) 11:42:15 ah, srfi-1 is different, ok 11:42:31 yes, thats ((1 a) (2 b) (3 c)) 11:42:38 It stops whenever a list is exhausted 11:44:51 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:44:55 then everything is clear now. 11:45:25 since the last compare is from n-1 to n and I don't need to test the last member at all. 11:45:28 thank you all 11:53:34 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:26 jeapostrophe [~jay@rrcs-67-52-254-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:02:57 rudybot: help 12:02:57 jeapostrophe: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 12:03:22 rudybot: seen 12:03:23 bremner: No sign of 12:04:14 rudybot: later tell Riastradh This package implements keyword values: https://github.com/jeapostrophe/exp/blob/master/values.ss 12:04:14 minion: memo for Riastradh: jeapostrophe told me to tell you: This package implements keyword values: https://github.com/jeapostrophe/exp/blob/master/values.ss 12:13:19 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:14:19 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 12:20:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:21:39 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed472.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:23:23 -!- ijp [~user@host109-153-23-149.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:28:03 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has joined #scheme 12:29:04 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed472.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 12:33:28 alaricsp 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16:56:09 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 16:56:25 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:56:25 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #scheme 16:59:57 f8l [~f8l@77-253-29-51.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 17:02:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-73-24.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #scheme 17:08:45 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:43 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:31 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-253-29-51.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:25:33 paste a link to scheme code in a prvmsg. get an "OMG2MANYPARENSWTF". it must be monday. 17:30:00 I read OMG2MANYPARENTSWTF 17:31:06 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:21 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 17:39:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:43:50 -!- bokr [~eduska@109.110.51.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:03 HG` [~HG@p579F7AA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:08 ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has joined #scheme 17:48:37 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:27 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:40 I think he only has the common count of 2. 17:50:00 boring 17:50:44 kuribas [~user@94-227-93-21.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:51:01 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:51:38 f8l [~f8l@77-253-29-51.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 17:59:14 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:54 offby1: You have an anachronistic "later tell" implementation. 18:06:35 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:19:26 yeah yeah 18:19:39 klutometis: but doing it right takes more work! :-) 18:20:26 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 18:20:57 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:21:28 offby1: I mean: I don't think minion has existed here for a while, has it? 18:21:31 rudybot: seen minion 18:21:32 klutometis: minion was seen joining in/on #scheme one day ago, and then minion was seen quitting in/on tiger.common-lisp.net one day ago, saying "*.net *.split" 18:21:40 Oh, never mind; carry on. 18:21:46 Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:46 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:13 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:27:52 -!- Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 18:37:30 *shrug* 18:38:12 hardly anyone uses that feature. So: how would I implement it for real? Hint 1: I don't really trust rudybot's "disk"; Hint 2: I'm slowly working on moving all its logging from disk to Amazon's SimpleDB 18:38:26 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:51:21 -!- _p4bl0 [~user@berthold.shebang.ws] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:59 _p4bl0 [~user@berthold.shebang.ws] has joined #scheme 19:01:28 Migaaresno [~benny@s529c3e36.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 19:02:29 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:33 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 19:06:16 "But one aspect of the demonstration has the legions of Windows developers deeply concerned, and with good reason: they were told that all their experience, all their knowledge, and every program they have written in the past would be useless on Windows 8." 19:06:25 http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars 19:06:27 http://tinyurl.com/5utdakj 19:06:34 Sorry; not sure why I find that amusing. 19:08:34 (Schadenfreude?) 19:09:41 -!- ijp [~user@host109-153-23-149.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has left #scheme 19:10:05 klutometis: sounds good. 19:10:19 I like Windows programmers to be horrified. 19:11:05 peterhil` [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 19:12:51 pjb: I'm not sure how much of that article is mere hyperbole; but it's still delicious. 19:13:03 I find Windows as infuriating as the next guy, but that seems to be making a lot of inflamatory statements without backing them up. 19:13:19 I generally expect better from ars 19:16:59 penryu: Yeah; I'd like to figure out exactly what's going on, but maybe it's a reflection of some general histrionics in the WEmpire. 19:17:46 I mean, Windows devs have to put up with some shit regarding mutating APIs, &c.; but this seems particularly ballsy, if it's true. 19:18:56 he penguin geeks is happy / As under the waves they lark The closed-source geeks ain't happy / They sad cause they in the dark But geeks in the dark is lucky / They in for a worser treat One day when the Borg go belly-up / Guess who wind up on the street. 19:19:00 oh, I've no doubt they've added DHTM^W Ajax^W HTML5+JavaScript as an API 19:19:10 s/he/The 19:20:04 but I can't find any confirmation on at all is that (a) other methods will be going away and (b) that this latest API, even if followed by a deprecation of WPF/CLR/whatever, will be any more destructive and hissy-fit worthy than the last dozen. 19:20:33 It's not that other methods are going away. It's that there will be no support for writing the new "immersive apps" using the older methods. Or at least, so says the article. 19:20:49 jcowan: Heh: the only references I can find to those verses are in your sigs; is it your own composition? 19:21:02 yeah, the article doesn't say that, afaict. she just says that _that example_ was written in DHTML 19:21:13 Yes, but a parody of a song from _The Little Mermaid_ 19:21:25 Right; that "immersive" qualification is all over the place. How serious that is depends on whether Redmond bets the farm on "immersion". 19:21:44 That's not totally out of the question, is it? 19:21:58 Down here all the fish is happy As off through the waves they roll The fish on the land ain't happy They sad 'cause they in their bowl But fish in the bowl is lucky They in for a worser fate One day when the boss get hungry Guess who's gon' be on the plate 19:22:13 francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has joined #scheme 19:22:15 Clever, clever. 19:23:18 *jcowan* bows and grins 19:23:21 Hi, does anyone use SCM implementation? I am having a hard time making it work with emacs 19:24:53 *jcowan* makes the sign of the T and backs away, shuddering. 19:25:57 klutometis: I didn't interpret her sentence fragment as implying that DHTML was the ONLY way to get that immersive experience. 19:26:29 iac, my friend is a dev at msft and he thinks it's just a huge overreaction. 19:26:45 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:26:56 I think it's just msft hedging its bets. just like when they made Visual J++ to try to compete with the Java revolution that never really took off. 19:27:31 Interesting; yeah: maybe windows-devs suffer from battered-wife-syndrome, and flinch at the slightest gesture. 19:27:34 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:22 but hey. even free software has its share of yellow journalism 19:28:27 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:28:38 i'm just used to it being on slashdot 19:30:26 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:36:43 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:37:45 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:56 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-73-24.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:13 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:57:46 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:58:24 -!- Migaaresno [~benny@s529c3e36.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:04 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:00:08 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01:56 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:55 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 20:03:27 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:57 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 20:04:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:16:57 -!- kuribas [~user@94-227-93-21.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:26:35 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 20:27:06 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:28:11 OneBraveHog [~nana@pool-71-182-166-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:08 tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:34:35 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:30 asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:36:37 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #scheme 20:42:15 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 20:44:50 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:46:27 -!- entrix [~entrix@93-80-205-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:48 -!- edw [~user@li246-89.members.linode.com] has left #scheme 21:14:18 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:16:49 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed472.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:17:01 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b05c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:32 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:23:54 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:31:20 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7AA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:09 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-253-29-51.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:45:55 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 22:00:15 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:05:30 zenspider [~user@envy.zenspider.com] has joined #scheme 22:06:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:06:14 penryu: For the past five years or so, I've thought of SD as an anachronism; browsing through there today, though, I was refreshed by the editor-curated content as opposed to the standard trough-based aggregation one finds today. 22:08:32 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 22:08:47 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:10:07 klutometis: hah. I don't think I've read SD in about 5 years, so that's one thing. 22:10:42 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:44 interesting to see that ars has met and passed SD on the journalism spectrum. 22:12:06 -!- minsa [minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:40 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:16:38 minsa [minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:17:17 -!- asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:24 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:06 sheikra [~wy@222.208.186.132] has joined #scheme 22:56:46 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:08 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:55 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:08:27 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:54 -!- tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-71-105.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:19 jeapostrophe [~jay@206-71-214-11.adams.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 23:40:05 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:46:01 -!- sheikra [~wy@222.208.186.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:14 samth: Oh, absolutely, `match' doesn't belong in the core. But the argument was that case-lambda was more expressive than the alternatives, which is clearly false since it is less expressive than `match'. 23:46:28 Nor can it be used as a basis on which to build `match'. 23:47:50 foof: that entirely depends on what you think `match' does 23:47:57 The discussion between John and I had explicitly been avoiding the topic of performance, but I at least will acknowledge arguments in favor of `case-lambda' on that basis. 23:48:12 i don't know of any implementation of `match' where `case-lambda' would be useful 23:48:57 i've never seen a compiler that could do anything approaching the optimization needed to recover the performance of case-lambda from rest arguments 23:49:02 samth: I mean, `match-lambda*' can be used as a strictly more expressive `case-lambda'. 23:49:28 it's more expressive, certainly 23:49:29 samth: Chibi now has an experimental optimization pass to do exactly that. 23:49:43 but case-lambda is not useful for building `match-lambda*' 23:49:55 at least not if you have an interesting pattern language 23:50:15 It took me a few hours, most of which was installing some not-yet-existing optimization infrastructure to Chibi, and it weighs in at about 100 lines of plugin code - it doesn't touch the core. 23:50:16 foof: what pattern of use to you have to have to make it fire? 23:50:51 evening all 23:50:59 also, arity reflection exposes differences that can't be fixed in the optimizer 23:51:02 foof: I've been using chibi disturbingly heavily of late :) 23:52:10 It's tailored to let-optionals*-style use, but should in principle be able to optimize match style uses - i.e. it's strictly more general than case-lambda, working on first principles. 23:52:20 It can do arity reflection. 23:52:30 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:21c:26ff:fe06:5b57] has joined #scheme 23:53:11 foof: one of us is confused about arity reflection 23:53:28 How so? 23:53:35 what is (procedure-arity (case-lambda [(x) 1] [(x y) 2])) ? 23:54:04 (assuming case-lambda is a macro in chibi) 23:54:05 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@206-71-214-11.adams.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 23:54:43 Ah, in Chibi that's going to be at-least-one however you implement case-lambda. 23:55:22 right, whereas in a language with `case-lambda' built in (Racket, say) it could be: 23:55:33 rudybot: eval (procedure-arity (case-lambda [(x) 1] [(x y) 2])) 23:55:33 samth: your sandbox is ready 23:55:33 samth: ; Value: (1 2) 23:56:19 The only reason Chibi can do optimizations like this easily is because it has a simple AST, and doesn't have things like case-lambda or let-values builtin. 23:57:38 I still don't understand what this optimization pass is doing -- the underlying implementation of `case-lambda' does some cdring, right? 23:57:53 JoelMcCracken [~user@70-90-236-161-Pennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:05 I could actually implement procedure-arity to return (1 2) in Chibi there by detecting the errors - I may do that if I ever have a need for procedure-arity. 23:58:28 foof: that's a very strange change to the semantics 23:58:37 how can you detect the errors correctly? 23:58:58 samth: I'd detect when the errors are conditioned on the arity. 23:59:13 would there be a (necessarily conservative) program analysis to determine the possible exceptions? 23:59:24 and the behavior of that analysis changes the results of programs? 23:59:35 The optimization builds an anlysis of which variables refer to rest parameters or cdrs thereof, detects when none of the cdrs escape, and translates the cars to stack references.