00:00:12 if I paste code in here will the formatting get all nasty? 00:00:26 use paste.lisp.org 00:00:29 oh ok 00:01:08 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:22 FreemanCorporeal pasted "backfill" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122428 00:01:43 so that's been sutured up just so it would load 00:01:51 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77be47.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:56 only it's not loading. I was going to run a trace on it 00:02:00 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 00:02:48 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:04 well your first problem is that "let" expression there isn't proper scheme 00:03:18 what's wrong with it? 00:03:26 should be (let ([var ...] [...]) ...) or something to that effect 00:04:38 so in the cond it's got to have [] 00:04:50 it's got nothing to do with the cond 00:04:57 so it should look more like [(let ([var (back-fill (cdr ls))]))] 00:05:17 the syntax of let is (let ((var initializer) ...) ...) 00:05:22 yeah 00:05:42 i'm still getting used to using let. 00:06:25 so that's let fixed, right/ 00:06:26 ? 00:06:37 sure 00:06:41 no, it needs a body 00:06:54 well yeah there's that 00:07:03 yeah, I'm getting there. 00:07:21 so running that let will set the last element in the list to var, right? 00:07:50 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:52 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:08:10 hm 00:08:56 you're not really "setting" anything 00:09:27 we're letting var = the last element then? 00:10:37 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:05 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 00:11:13 well as it is right now var will be equal to the last element only for the recursive call that happens on the second-to-last element 00:12:40 basically, what do you expect back-fill to return when you pass in a single-element list? 00:12:42 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:12:54 the element 00:12:57 are you sure? 00:13:06 that's what it *should* do 00:13:13 well 00:13:19 it should give a list containing that element. 00:13:21 yeah 00:14:55 so when back-fill is called on a longer list, what are you expecting the recursive call to backfill to return? 00:15:34 a list where all the elements are equal to the original last element. 00:15:58 ok... so what do you intend to do with that? 00:16:14 so (back-fill '(a b c d e)) will return ('e e e e e) 00:16:20 it's an exercise 00:16:26 i know 00:16:39 what i'm saying is what are you going to do with the result of the recursive call? 00:16:57 in order to make the function do what it's supposed to do 00:17:23 that's where I'm really stuck. You'd need to cons it on to the cdr as it runs down so that it preserves the length 00:17:29 but still replaces the elements 00:20:00 well, your recursive call to back-fill has already returned a backfilled version of the rest of the list 00:20:08 you can use that 00:20:26 is map offlimits? :) 00:20:32 it is not. 00:21:03 (don't use map :P) 00:21:08 aw man 00:21:28 the recursive solution is nicer 00:23:34 i'm getting invalid syntax 00:23:45 for what? 00:23:50 let 00:24:05 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:24:10 it's in a cond. so it looks like 00:24:11 let is of the form: (let ((formal expr) (formal expr) ...) body...) 00:24:42 [(let ([var (back-fill (cdr ls))]))] 00:24:59 the body's missing. 00:25:28 so maybe cons var onto the backfilled list..? 00:25:28 come to think of it you should probably have an else before that let 00:25:44 well, var is the backfilled list 00:25:50 but you're on the right track 00:26:33 whaaaaaat! recursion, you one crazy kid, man 00:28:07 if that's the backfilled list, don't I want to just return that? 00:28:11 recursion is excellent 00:28:33 it's a backfilled version of the rest of your input list 00:28:42 so it's got one less element than your input list 00:28:45 so that list minus the car. 00:29:16 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:29:30 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:49 what do you mean when you say "that list"? 00:29:52 so can I take the car of var and just cons that onto the new backfilled list? 00:29:58 sure 00:30:01 since it's already all the last element/ 00:30:01 congratulations 00:30:04 niiiiice! 00:30:10 lemme run this through the repl 00:30:40 ahhh 00:30:47 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:47 mario-go` [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 00:31:02 you'll probably want an else in there, though, as in (cond (...) (..) (else (let ...))) 00:31:02 FreemanCorporeal annotated #122428 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122428#1 00:31:21 this is realy close. 00:31:23 -!- yell0 [~yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:31:25 I think. 00:31:32 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:32:01 I think it's just my syntax 00:32:13 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 00:32:14 do you really need to call back-fill in there twice? 00:32:18 always with the syntax! 00:32:19 evening Riastradh 00:32:25 well 00:32:27 cdr var 00:32:36 why do you want cdr var? 00:32:49 well, var! 00:32:55 that's the backfilled list, right? 00:32:56 there you go 00:32:56 Suppose I am implementing a language that supports inexact fixed-point rational numbers with user-selectable range and precision. 00:33:11 Is there a plausible way to do that using underlying flonum support? 00:33:23 I'm still getting invalid syntax 00:33:27 geez, ask an easy one 00:33:34 We will assume that the range and precision are known at compile time, so we can emit code that will round and/or throw on overflow. 00:33:37 FreemanCorporeal: what's the code look like now? 00:34:05 I just annotedated the paste 00:34:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122428#1 00:34:20 jcowan, can't the user trivially select too much precision? 00:34:32 FreemanCorporeal: that still has the extraneous call to back-fill 00:35:01 FreemanCorporeal annotated #122428 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122428#2 00:35:16 annotated it again with what I've got 00:35:47 ok... so now what you're doing is calling "var" as if it were a function 00:36:14 you've also got the body contained within the binding list of the "let" 00:36:27 so I should close the let? 00:36:33 not the entire let 00:36:37 just the binding list 00:37:19 ok. 00:37:29 I see 00:37:33 also your conditional branch for the single-element list is still wrong 00:38:09 yeah, just return the list instead 00:38:11 right? 00:38:18 yeah 00:38:21 FreemanCorporeal: http://ix.io/1Ix <-- uses some racket-specific stuff 00:39:07 I got it working. 00:39:09 offby1: this is for an assignment, so i'm assuming they're probably specifically looking for the explicit recursive version 00:39:17 Yeah 00:39:18 They are. 00:39:34 which is also why i didn't just outright paste the solution 00:39:39 yeah. 00:39:56 bah 00:40:02 i'd be pretty hosed if I weren't doing this myself 00:41:41 offby1, (define (backfill l) 00:41:42 (make-list (sub1 (length l)) (last l))) 00:42:45 samth: Well, sure; that's true of any implementation. He can select too much range, too. 00:43:08 jcowan, no, i mean too much precision to be supported by the underlying float hardware 00:43:19 thanks for your help 00:43:23 i really appreciate it 00:43:23 We'll just say that's an implementation restriction. 00:43:28 np 00:44:05 If the compiler knows, e.g. that the underlying system is 64-bit IEEE, then it can reject demands for excessive range and/or precision easily. 00:44:08 in that case, just map into the representable integers 00:44:25 which have an easy translation to the appropriate fixed point 00:44:30 samth: didn't know about "make-list" 00:44:44 Yes, well, if I wanted to do that I'd use machine integers. 00:44:45 offby1, it's kinda new 00:44:55 make sense, analogous to make-string &c 00:45:04 The idea is not to have to do the extra shifting and such to add numbers with different precisions. 00:45:43 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:46:18 I can just add 10.3 and 10.45 to get 10.75 using fl+, but if I am representing them as 103 and 1045, I have to do a left shift on 103 first. 00:47:32 i'm highly suspicious that floating point is going to suck for anything that isn't floating point 00:48:02 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49:50 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:57 I guess the trick is to prove that the error never grows large enough to be visible when the floats are rendered through fixed-point glasses, 00:51:07 or if it does, that you need a fixed-point overflow anyway. 00:51:29 In which case you can do FP arithmetic and just test when you store the result that it fits. 00:51:33 But I don't know how to prove that. 00:52:10 s/it fits/it would have fit using real fixed point/ 00:52:13 very few fixed point range/prec combinations will not have holes in IEEE-764 00:53:01 Well, suppose we say that the range and precision can't exceed 52 bits? 00:53:09 53, whatever 00:56:29 but how many fixed point systems won't have a representation for 0.3? 00:56:33 consider: >>> 0.3 + 1 - 1 00:56:33 0.30000000000000004 00:57:06 0.3 is not representable in a binary fixed point system anyway. 00:57:46 Binary flonums can't accurately represent decimal fixed point, so you either allow only binary fixed point, or you make use of decimal (IEEE 754R) flonums. 01:01:50 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:12:00 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 01:25:22 -!- FreemanCorporeal [Bridgeman@140-182-225-20.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:48 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:17 devslashnull [~james@ppp118-208-192-185.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 01:41:00 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 01:45:06 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@50.51.30.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:46:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 01:48:16 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:47 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:40 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:54:16 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:24 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:14 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 02:01:14 -!- dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:09:36 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:14:06 dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:18 FreemanCorporeal [~citizen.b@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:26 -!- FreemanCorporeal [~citizen.b@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [] 02:30:35 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 02:45:47 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:10 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 02:58:41 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:00:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:02:40 -!- Keta [~Katie@hlfxns0148w-142177172125.region5.highspeedunplugged.aliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:40 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:20:53 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:13 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:23:28 -!- Fare [~Fare@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:26:32 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:27:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:30:02 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:17 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:45:42 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:49:02 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53:07 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:38 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:22:57 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 04:44:05 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:46:10 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:49:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:50:29 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:48 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: \o/] 04:55:01 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:24:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:29:56 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 05:37:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:56 republican_devil [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:41:03 ristradh are u here? 05:41:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:48:37 Blah, I don't have nearly enough computing power to include Stalin in a benchmark :/ 05:49:45 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:53:52 of? 05:56:57 anything more than 500 lines or so 06:00:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:04:55 z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #scheme 06:04:55 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 06:04:55 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 06:06:09 stalin is the one that like compiles to optimized c or something? 06:06:23 and then what compiles down to machine code? 06:07:38 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 06:11:58 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:14:33 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 06:17:56 masm [~masm@bl19-159-78.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 06:20:53 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 06:22:17 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:41:56 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:45:20 republican_devil: schemers have a strange taste for names. Racket, Stalin. I'm expecting implementations named Hittler and Jack the Ripper... 06:47:39 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 06:50:53 nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:58:21 racket is a straightforward pun on scheme (like gambit, and so many others). Not sure about Stalin 06:58:37 the only implementation that will use SRFI-49 by default will be called Guido, then? 06:59:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:09 bremner_: there are more programmers whose native language is not English than English. Puns are lost. 06:59:21 *bremner_* shrugs 07:00:13 tried search for Python lately? 07:00:53 I get Python Programming language, and down the page, images for python shows snakes. 07:01:15 ah, I had nothing but porn results, but that was a while back. 07:01:17 I'm logged into google, so he provides me with what I want :-) 07:01:34 bremner_: if you tend to search for porn, it will provide you with that... 07:01:45 I never get porn from google... 07:01:51 I don't log in. 07:02:06 Perhaps without a log in, it returns the "general consensus"... 07:03:11 and some more about the language and at the end, xkcb.com and Monty Python. Overall, a perfect match. Thanks google. 07:04:26 *eli* waits for pjb's inevitable http://www.informatimago.com/images/doctor-vs-racketeer.jpg troll 07:04:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:04:56 continuations I dont get thee 07:06:08 poindontcare: What are you missing? 07:06:15 does call/cc store the entire stack of the current continuation when it was called ? 07:06:49 That's one way to implement it, but not a good way to think about it. 07:06:59 eli: My point was that indeed, I should not be surprised by Racket, given Stalin. 07:07:59 pjb: That is an amazingly ridiculous thing to say. 07:08:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:08:31 but given his previous utterances, you should not be surprised by it ;) 07:08:49 Yes, I didn't say that it's surprising... 07:10:18 eli: I am looking at an implementation of factorial where the base case saves the continuation and when we call the continuation later it seems to replay the whole factorial with the new base case 07:10:51 poindontcare: How much do you know about continuations? 07:11:20 well 2 hrs worth 07:11:38 In that case, have a look at this: http://pl.barzilay.org/lec27.txt 07:12:52 k let me see 07:16:10 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 07:25:28 http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ys-forbes-tiger_worlds_highest_paid_athletes_060111 07:25:29 http://tinyurl.com/3cfo3rq 07:25:31 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:39 Miami Heat forward LeBron James, who earned $48 million over the past year. 07:36:29 republican_devil: Please stop spamming. 07:37:05 HG` [~HG@p579F7F37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:42:40 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:44:45 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:52:57 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:01:37 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #scheme 08:10:58 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: ] 08:20:03 Axius [~darkstar@92.84.31.185] has joined #scheme 08:20:39 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:20 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #scheme 08:22:46 -!- Axius [~darkstar@92.84.31.185] has quit [Client Quit] 08:24:08 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-ugqwtfyschxjqcua] has joined #scheme 08:24:12 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-ugqwtfyschxjqcua] has quit [Changing host] 08:24:12 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 08:26:21 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 08:28:37 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:31:35 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:39:52 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7F37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:49:15 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:25 k 08:50:56 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:48 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 09:06:29 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-161-39.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20:32 EbiDK [511bd602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.27.214.2] has joined #scheme 09:21:12 bremner_: gambit a pun with respect to scheme? I thought it only was related to chess. 09:21:41 -!- republican_devil [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:23:13 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 09:28:31 A gambit can be a potentially risky plan, or scheme, if you will. 09:28:49 Which is, in fact, what it means in chess too, no? 09:28:53 *fds* doesn't play chess. 09:31:41 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:00 fds: isn't just a "tactic"? 09:32:38 I don't know this word well enough to understand its nuances 09:33:45 A risky tactic. Gambit implies risk/sacrifice/danger or something like that. 09:36:05 ha, I see 09:36:19 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 09:37:25 A gambit is where you let the opponent get an advantage in pieces for you to get an advantage in position 09:37:42 So no, the popular usage of "gambit" isn't that related to chess 09:38:01 There's no risk in chess, anyway. 09:41:31 Well, there's the risk of losing. I think that the two meanings are quite related, just the chess term is more specific. 09:45:03 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:25 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 09:51:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 10:01:33 A "gambit" in chess more specifically means offering one or more pieces (usually a pawn) as a sacrifice in the opening stages of the game, in exchange for a positional advantage. 10:02:22 It is always made by the white player. It's much more difficult for black to get away with giving up material, and an opening sacrifice by black is called a "counter-gambit". 10:03:42 And it's called a gambit whether the oponent accepts the sacrifice or not. 10:04:05 Either way, you need to make use of the advantage early on or you'll probably lose, so it's a calculated risk. 10:26:14 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:52 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #scheme 10:38:05 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:41:24 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:01:59 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:34 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:24 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-45-136.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 11:04:36 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:05:23 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 11:08:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 11:12:15 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:32:04 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 11:49:26 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 11:53:44 -!- mario-go` is now known as mario-goulart 11:58:53 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-159-78.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:07 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:02:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:02:21 f8l [~f8l@213-238-105-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 12:03:44 masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has joined #scheme 12:11:21 thoolihan [~Tim@50.51.30.43] has joined #scheme 12:18:19 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:36 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:22:21 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 12:26:00 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:29:48 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:03 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:04:22 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:06:42 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-139.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:06:51 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 13:11:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:20 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:19:36 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-145-59.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:19:54 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 13:30:55 choas [~lars@p5792C8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:36:54 djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 13:44:26 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:47:09 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 13:48:43 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:39 zmv [~daniel@201.83.57.6] has joined #scheme 13:52:14 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:53:23 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #scheme 14:01:06 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:12:28 -!- EbiDK [511bd602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.27.214.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:30:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:30:25 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:43 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:43:13 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:45:40 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:47:56 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:59 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has joined #scheme 14:53:59 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has quit [Changing host] 14:53:59 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:54:15 -!- devslashnull [~james@ppp118-208-192-185.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 14:59:10 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-190-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:00:27 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:01:07 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-145-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:50 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:36 -!- homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-190-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:17:38 Fare [~Fare@206.83.64.178.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme 15:19:19 ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has joined #scheme 15:24:46 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:27:55 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:30 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:29:01 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:56 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #scheme 15:49:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:54:01 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 16:00:38 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:48 -!- Fare [~Fare@206.83.64.178.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:12:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:14:44 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:18:04 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:25:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.70] has joined #scheme 16:30:57 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:41 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 16:35:54 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has joined #scheme 16:43:41 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has quit [Changing host] 16:43:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:45:42 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:51:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:02 -!- zmv [~daniel@201.83.57.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:58:46 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:01:58 -!- f8l [~f8l@213-238-105-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:17:13 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:30 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:05 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:00 Fare [~Fare@63.115.78.49] has joined #scheme 17:51:50 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 18:17:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:33:01 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 18:40:50 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:47:50 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:38 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:35 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:56 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 19:02:17 ijp [~user@host109-154-194-139.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:04:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:05:11 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:31 -!- Fare [~Fare@63.115.78.49] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:39:31 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 19:45:07 pjb__ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 19:50:13 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:51:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:05:10 pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:11:04 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:35:23 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 20:46:09 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:15 evening 20:50:03 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:32 yay 21:01:27 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.23.6] has joined #scheme 21:02:13 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.23.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:44 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.23.6] has joined #scheme 21:12:30 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:12:34 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:35 -!- pjb__ is now known as pjb 21:14:44 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 21:25:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:25 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #scheme 21:36:47 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 21:39:09 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-168-112.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:01 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 21:40:47 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-164-222.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:55 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:41:22 wingo: Is that pronounced more like "even-ing" or "evenin'"? 21:43:34 the latter :) 21:54:00 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:22 -!- YokYok [~david@v6.nietwork.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:14 YokYok [~david@v6.nietwork.net] has joined #scheme 22:05:42 -!- pjb [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:12:01 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:14 ymasory [~ymasory@mkb036.apn.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 22:35:34 Guest55015 [~smartviki@ti0029a380-1948.bb.online.no] has joined #scheme 22:35:45 -!- Guest55015 is now known as SmartViking 22:35:48 -!- SmartViking [~smartviki@ti0029a380-1948.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 22:35:49 SmartViking [~smartviki@unaffiliated/smartviking] has joined #scheme 22:39:39 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@mkb036.apn.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:48 (define (area pie radiu 22:39:50 (* pie (* radiu radiu) ))) 22:39:58 Why does it not work? 22:40:10 #%plain-lambda: not an identifier in: (* pie (* radiu radiu)) 22:40:46 SmartViking: What are the arguments to your area function? 22:41:12 stamourv: None, I have not called the function yet 22:41:44 SmartViking: Count your parens: I suspect that's not an error in pasting. 22:41:46 Using R5Rs 22:41:47 DrScheme 22:42:04 Rather, what are the names of the arguments to area. 22:43:07 Obfuscate: They seems fine 22:43:19 I'll past all of it, 6 lines 22:43:47 (define pi 3.14) 22:43:52 (define rad 9) 22:43:52 (define (area pie radiu 22:43:52 (* pie (* radiu radiu) ))) 22:43:52 (define (curcumference pi rad 22:43:52 (* pi (* rad 2)))) 22:43:52 That is all, and it fails 22:44:01 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.244.3] has joined #scheme 22:44:04 Given the error message, the original two lines are enough to find the problem. 22:44:07 You should use a pastebin. 22:44:21 So, what are the names of the arguments to area. 22:44:26 But yeah, you haven't got the right syntax for your definitions. :-) 22:45:14 ah yeah 22:45:16 (define (area pie radiu) 22:45:18 (* pie (* radiu radiu) )) 22:45:28 Placed the paranthesis the wrong place 22:45:51 There you go. 22:46:26 stamourv: What do you mean about the names of the arguments to area? 22:46:50 Well, I was trying to get you to notice that the argument list was malformed. 22:47:11 Ah 22:47:21 I'm pretty new to scheme 22:47:22 I wanted you to say: pie, radius, oh wait, I should close a paren here. 22:47:38 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:46 stamourv: Hehe maybe another time :) 22:47:56 When I get used to the syntax 22:47:57 Have you tried HTDP? 22:48:10 s/tried/read/ 22:48:49 stamourv: Yeah, read the first couple of pages than I've made this program like 4 times, each time I had forgotten how to make it 22:49:34 Keep practicing, and you'll get it. :) 22:49:52 Hi all! 22:50:01 Yeah eventually :) 22:51:47 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.23.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:12 You know when people play a song, and then everyone starts to clap? That is really weird when you think about it. 22:53:37 "I approve" 23:01:10 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:56 framling [~user@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:08 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:53 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:01 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 23:10:49 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.244.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:03 rudybot: pi 23:11:04 cky: (define pi 3.14) 23:11:07 rudybot: eval pi 23:11:08 cky: your sandbox is ready 23:11:08 cky: ; Value: 3.141592653589793 23:11:26 rudybot: (define (circular-area radius) (* pi radius radius)) 23:11:27 cky: Done. 23:11:32 rudybot: (circular-area 100) 23:11:33 cky: ; Value: 31415.926535897932 23:11:37 SmartViking: ^^--- 23:12:10 (On Racket, "pi" is defined by default.) 23:12:19 On a system without a predefined pi, you could define it yourself: 23:12:23 -!- SmartViking [~smartviki@unaffiliated/smartviking] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:12:26 O_o 23:12:28 Oh well. 23:12:29 I tried. 23:21:28 Articate [~Moriya@pjp-78.uio.no] has joined #scheme 23:22:40 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:22:54 rudybot: pi 23:22:54 *offby1: (define (curcumference pi rad 23:22:59 rudybot: eval pi 23:22:59 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 23:22:59 *offby1: ; Value: 3.141592653589793 23:23:02 gosh, who knw 23:23:12 rudybot: awesome 23:23:12 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: awesome in module: 'program 23:23:15 *smack* 23:23:19 gotta fix that 23:23:43 how would you implement abs? 23:23:57 square-root of the square? 23:25:04 naw 23:25:16 rudybot: (define (my-abs x) (if (negative? x) (- x) x)) 23:25:16 *offby1: Done. 23:25:38 square roots are expensive and inaccurate 23:26:23 I tired that - I was only off by saying "-x", not "- x" :( 23:26:24 :)* 23:26:35 or :(, all depending on how you view it 23:26:40 rudybot: eval (abs 10) 23:26:40 *offby1: ; Value: 10 23:26:42 rudybot: eval (abs 0) 23:26:42 *offby1: ; Value: 0 23:26:44 rudybot: eval (abs -10) 23:26:44 *offby1: ; Value: 10 23:27:01 Articate: "-x" would work in lots of languages ... but not scheme 23:27:06 I found that :> 23:27:08 yep 23:27:18 difference of (if (< 0 x) and (if (negative? x)? 23:27:22 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:23 Articate: Hmm; the first time I've seen a smiley-redaction in IRC. 23:28:08 (> 0 x), of course 23:28:13 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:29:57 smiley-redactions remind us that the world is relative :D 23:32:57 Articate: negative? is the same as (cut < <> 0). 23:33:05 Articate: Only, it's useful in contexts where you don't want to use cut. ;-) 23:33:37 magic_mage [~gschuette@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:34:11 Articate: You can also define abs this way: 23:34:12 how in scheme can you have tables that relate like a relational db? 23:34:24 rudybot: (define (my-abs x) ((if (negative? x) - +) x)) 23:34:24 cky: Done. 23:34:35 rudybot: (map my-abs '(-1 0 1)) 23:34:35 cky: ; Value: (1 0 1) 23:34:59 Articate: Did you see what I did there? If so, you win half an Internet. 23:35:32 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:36:43 magic_mage: I'd use one that someelse made http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/slib_6.html#SEC153 23:37:09 or just use a "real" relational db 23:37:15 I'd avoid feeding the Gavino troll, ijp. 23:39:20 right, my bad 23:39:46 who is gavino? 23:39:53 a troll 23:40:06 turbofail, a troll currently operating under the nickname magic_mage. 23:40:06 a mailing list troll? 23:40:46 I'm not sure I've seen him on any mailing lists, but I've seen him all over Usenet and IRC. 23:40:52 hm 23:41:01 ria hate me 23:41:06 I lke him 23:41:31 « cky » Articate: Did you see what I did there? If so, you win half an Internet. 23:41:38 yeah, you return the operator to use on x 23:42:43 (am I right?) 23:43:02 (list (caddar board) (car (cdr (cdr (car (cdr board))))) (car (cdr (cdr (car (cdr (cdr board))))))) <- I know I'm just gonna love my exam in Scheme 23:43:10 ow ow ow 23:44:20 Do they do that just to make sure that none of the students write any Lisp once they've finished the course? 23:44:39 Seems like it 23:44:44 I know I amn't going to :p 23:44:48 fds: Why would they do that, C# is the future! 23:45:56 ijp: True. What am I doing here at all?! 23:45:58 /part 23:47:20 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:53 what's the best way to check if you're done with a list? 23:48:15 (if (null? (cdr list) or (if (pair? (cdr list) 23:49:55 generally I do (if (null? list)) 23:50:15 I don't think there's any real difference, but I've almost exclusively seen null? used there. 23:50:22 There is a real difference. 23:50:32 Hello 23:50:36 (not (null? x)) does not guarantee that (car x) will work. (pair? x) does. 23:51:52 but it'll always work with a properly formed list? :) 23:52:06 Hm, yes. But if you're just testing for the end of the list, they should both work equally well? 23:53:15 (cdr list) might not be a pair 23:56:32 cky, you never said if I were right :o 23:56:41 eh... gavino's trolling on c.l.l isn't nearly as delightfully infuriating as xah's