00:03:10 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 00:03:17 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:09 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:46 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-165-6.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:41 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:21:13 nikania [~nikania@c-24-16-137-194.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:39 Hello, I would really appreciate it if someone helps me write this function. (expand '(a (3 b) (3 a) b (2 c) (3 a)) should be (a b b b a a a b c c a a a) 00:22:18 I'm new to scheme, I've been working on this for hours 00:22:43 I know I'm supposed to have a helper function that generates a list of values 00:28:54 nikania: here's a hint: try evaluating (expandHelper 2 'a) by hand 00:32:27 what do you mean by hand? using a loop? well, I can only use recursion 00:33:10 i mean pretend you are the interpreter and rewrite subexpressions.. you can do it on paper 00:34:05 first step: (expandHelper 2 'a) => (expandHelper (- 1 2) 'a) 00:34:09 you see what i mean? 00:34:53 oh I have done that, but still don't know what the right recursive expression is for expandHelper. The way my code is written now, when I run (expandHelper 2 'a), it becomes an infinite loop 00:35:13 this is my code 00:36:12 http://pastebin.com/AQEvj2SJ 00:36:55 I've been working on this for hours 00:38:24 you need to be able to do substitutions like scheme does so you can break it down into steps 00:39:24 when a function is applied, values are substituted for variables and the body of the function is then evaluated 00:39:51 what do you mean by substitutions? This is only my helper function by the way 00:40:35 well aren't n and value substituted when this function is called by the main function 00:40:37 ? 00:40:41 i mean that in the body of expandHelper, 2 will be substituted for n when you are evaluating (expandHelper 2 'a) 00:42:00 if you do substitutions yourself and use the REPL, you can try small examples to make sure you understand what you have written 00:43:24 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:43:49 ok I've done all this, but I can't find the right recursive expression 00:44:03 have you tried: (- 1 2) ? 00:44:15 does it give what you expect? 00:45:13 (- 1 2)? why? this is not even one of the cases? I'v tried (expandHelper 1 'a) and (expandHelper 2 'a) 00:46:20 (expandhelper 1 'a) gives me (a) which is what i expect but (expandHelper 2 'a) goes into an infinites loop 00:47:33 I just realized what you meant by (- 1 2) yeah I tried it just now 00:47:42 it's still an infinite loop 00:48:21 you meant using (- 1 2) instead of (- 1 n) 00:49:19 i didn't mean for you to edit the definition of expandHelper. i meant for you to type (- 1 2) into your REPL and see what the result is 00:50:14 you should do that because (- 1 2) will be computed as part of computing (expandHelper 2 'a) so you should be sure that it is giving you the value you want 00:52:22 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:53:42 I'm using DrRacket, I don't know what REPL is 00:54:04 but yeah, do you know what's wrong with my code? 00:54:39 I just started learning this last week, so this is all new for me 00:55:05 REPL means "read eval print loop". when i say type X into your REPL i mean evaluate X. and yes i know what is wrong with your code 00:58:51 expandHelper only needs two cases. for 0, it returns '(), for numbers greater than 0, it returns (cons value X) for some value of X which can be found recursively 01:00:04 you were pretty close already.. the other problem i was trying to hint at is that (- 1 2) is -1 and so you want (- n 1) instead of (- 1 n) 01:00:28 ok so what about (s) for example 01:00:50 its not (1 s) 01:01:14 it's only (s). there is no special case for that? 01:01:51 i don't understand the question 01:03:11 ok so here is the expression (expand (a (2 b)), then the output is (a b b). I meant that it's (a) instead of (1 a) 01:03:27 when n is 1 01:03:36 doesn't this need a special case? 01:04:41 ok.. 01:04:59 write expand like this: 01:05:18 (define (expandHelper x) (list 'helper x)) 01:05:40 then see if you can get the expand function to do what you want 01:05:54 btw, I just made the change and tried (expandHelper 2 'a) and the output was (a) instead of (a a) 01:05:55 see if you can get this: 01:06:15 (a (2 b)) => ((helper a) (helper (2 b))) 01:06:22 ok 01:09:52 It gave me this error reference to undefined identifier: a 01:10:17 I'm a bit confused, by the expand function you mean the helper function or the main function 01:10:37 because you said (define (expandHelper)) 01:11:51 i meant, "write expandHelper like this:". sorry 01:12:19 at the moment, you code for expand does not call expandHelper at all 01:12:53 expand should look like this: 01:13:09 (define (expand lst) (apply append (map expandHelper lst))) 01:13:41 and expandHelper needs to take one argument and return a list 01:13:59 i can't help any more than that. good luck 01:14:12 ok thank you 01:15:56 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:54 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:29:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:40:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:45:39 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 01:49:24 -!- nikania [~nikania@c-24-16-137-194.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 01:51:14 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:56 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:55:46 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:20 -!- spacemagic [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110323142937]] 01:58:57 -!- askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:25 xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has joined #scheme 02:11:56 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:16:43 i often used to think that scheme proximately embodied my thoughts; but then someone else made such a naked assertion about prolog: "the language of thought and prolog are very close to each other." 02:16:44 http://tinyurl.com/3fc8bvz 02:17:57 is it tautological to say, "language x models thought;" since sapir-whorf phenomena may be in effect? 02:18:59 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:20 -!- ijp [~user@host86-163-219-165.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:28:34 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 02:32:35 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:37:48 .oO("the language of thought"?) 02:38:06 computer "languages" and human languages are more different than similiar. 02:38:13 It's silly that the same word is used for both 02:51:44 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:59 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:13:02 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:13:42 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 03:18:59 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:19:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:27 -!- xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:27 -!- ericbb [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:41 offby1, it's almost an accident of history that they ended up sharing a word, isn't it? 03:40:39 seems to me 03:42:02 What would you propose as an alternative? 03:43:04 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 03:43:37 *shrug* 03:43:44 "scheme" :) 03:43:51 "FORTRAN is one of the older computer schemes" 03:43:54 srsly 03:48:47 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:06 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 03:56:06 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:46 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:04:46 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 04:05:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06:24 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:55 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 04:11:44 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:06 xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has joined #scheme 04:33:51 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 04:34:26 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 04:34:50 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:35:28 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:35:41 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:36:26 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:36:53 offby1: "scheme's" not bad; was about "calculus"? 04:37:54 it's sympathetic with Zuse's "Plankalkuel". 04:41:10 it turns out that calculus is "a generic term for concretions occurring accidentally in the animal body" according to the OED; which may well describe how languages are conceived and passed: like gall stones. 05:01:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:01:26 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:01:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 05:04:19 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-38-163.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:24 or tooth plaque 05:11:35 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:13:10 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:13:25 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has joined #scheme 05:13:40 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 05:15:53 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:53 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:39 askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 05:26:33 klutometis: i am afraid to think of programmers who think in brainfuck. 05:30:26 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 05:32:48 nome``: That is true. However, programmers who think in GolfScript will go far. 05:37:47 user18 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #scheme 05:41:40 -!- user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:51:49 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:33 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 06:14:29 saccade [~saccade@74-95-7-186-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 06:24:58 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 06:40:14 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:41:05 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:41:05 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:46:35 OneBraveHog [~brc@pool-72-95-152-78.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:47:24 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 06:53:39 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 06:57:42 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has left #scheme 10:05:22 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:07:25 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:35 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:28 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 10:18:09 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:37 lupe [~lupe@89.180.163.95] has joined #scheme 10:23:42 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #scheme 10:23:58 hey 10:25:00 I have a lambda calculus question, wondered if anyone here might be able to answer it: Can you see how the application of (lambda (x) (lambda (x) t)) to a closed term s should work? 10:26:32 I think the "application" means ((lambda (x) (lambda (x) t)) s) 10:26:38 which, using substitution of the first x for s, becomes (lambda (s) (lambda (x) t)) 10:26:59 but after that I think you just get (lambda (x) t) back 10:27:30 -!- lupe [~lupe@89.180.163.95] has left #scheme 10:27:51 err, ( (lamda (x) foo) s ) != (lambda (s) foo) afaik 10:28:42 you have to do the appropriate substitution (in this case null, I suppose, since x is not free in the body) 10:28:59 or else I need more coffee. 10:30:51 ok that makes no sense 10:31:14 of course ((lambda (x) foo) s) != (lambda (s) foo) 10:31:27 I think that you're right, but that it doesn't change his (valid) point that it doesn't matter what you apply it to you'll get (lambda (x) t) 10:31:35 But, I don't really know anything. :-) 10:32:11 yeah 10:32:16 that does make sense 10:33:02 I think as long as the thing you're applying it to is closed, you'll always get (lambda (x) t) 10:33:36 what does closed mean here? 10:33:54 no free variables 10:34:14 that only matters in the body of the lambda, not the argument 10:34:41 so you'll always get (lambda (x) t)? 10:34:50 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:51 as i understand it. 10:35:51 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 10:37:30 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:38:36 This is how it looks in the proper notation: http://mathbin.net/61027 10:39:14 them's fightn' words around here ;) 10:39:40 :P 10:40:23 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:40:42 maybe expressed in that form it means something different 10:41:04 but as far as I know (lambda (x) (lambda (x) t)) is equivalent 10:45:51 Your understanding of the situation seems to match mine. I'm hesitant to say that makes it correct, but I'm volunteering my opinion because it might make you feel slightly better! 10:46:12 Or it might not; I'm often wrong. ;-) 10:46:15 haha 10:46:34 I also wondered if you could review my code: https://github.com/spanners/poly/blob/master/poly.lisp 10:46:48 it's in a language closer to scheme than lisp 10:47:37 is this generally the way stuff is done in scheme? 10:50:20 I wouldn't say that. It's kind of a lisp-1 lisp, more than like a scheme. 10:50:53 What do you mean by `this'? It looks like Lisp code (where I consider Scheme to be a Lisp). One thing is the top-level SETQs, aren't you supposed to use DEFVAR or something? I don't really speak CL 10:50:58 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:51:37 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:52:10 This is not CL at all! 10:52:23 I don't understand why people insist for deviant languages. 10:52:28 Heh 10:52:31 :P 10:52:41 Well, I just going by the DEFUNs and SETQs and whathaveyou 10:53:29 where you see setq and defun replace with what it should be in your language 10:53:58 tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has joined #scheme 10:55:47 Well, I'm not quite clever enough to check for bugs in that much code in my head. But if I make those mental substitutions it definitely looks like Scheme! 10:55:54 :-P 10:56:05 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:59 Out of interest, why isn't it just written in Scheme? 10:57:55 homework 10:58:10 Ah 10:58:28 the lecturer wrote the language and interpreter 10:58:44 freak 10:58:54 Which lecturer, university, &c? 10:59:07 *fds* is a curious fellow. 10:59:19 Yes, 80% of the problems with lisp are the teachers... 10:59:29 http://people.bath.ac.uk/masrjb/ 10:59:41 Ah, nice 10:59:43 see bottom of page for language information 11:00:16 On the other hand, one advantage of using a unique programming language for teaching, is that students cannot fetch the solutions from the Internet :-0 11:00:17 :-) 11:00:18 Yeah, I see it. Not far from me at all. I'm in Cardiff at the moment 11:00:32 I'm always interested to hear about Scheme/Lisp stuff happening in the UK 11:00:40 Even if it is a bit deviant. :-P 11:05:18 euscheme 6300 hits. eulisp 23900 hits, r5rs 51,400 hits. common lisp 1,220,000 hits. 11:06:04 Java 664,000,000 hits. ;-) 11:06:17 :-) 11:08:14 daedra: it would be simplier if you announced directly that your program is written in EuLisp, and that you're using the euscheme implementation. 11:08:33 daedra: while we don't use old lisps, we still may have heard of them and have some knowledge about them. 11:09:59 ok 11:10:36 how hard is it to translate scheme knowledge into lisp knowledge? 11:11:02 In my opinion, Scheme _is_ a Lisp. :-P 11:11:36 tippenein: it's easy. The differences are small, the main one being lisp-1 vs. lisp-2. 11:11:40 some stuff looks nearly the same, but ash for example.. wtf? 11:11:47 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 11:12:00 tippenein: of course, the libraries are different. 11:12:11 But any program can use any library and be written in a different style. 11:12:44 ash is probably an Arithmetic SHift. 11:13:00 But of course, the depends on the context. 11:13:02 I'm reading `Lisp in Small Pieces' and think it's a good book for learning about the differences between Lisp dialects and stuff 11:13:05 Perhaps the program is about burning stuff. 11:14:22 lol! 11:15:10 (define ash (burn-with-fire stuff)) 11:15:46 *implements* 11:15:53 *tried for arson* 11:17:37 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 11:34:16 -!- ConnieStinson is now known as OneBraveHog 11:40:27 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:42:02 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:45 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:53:41 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:07 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:54:13 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:54:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 11:54:13 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 11:56:33 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 11:56:52 are all modern languages lexically scoped? 11:57:49 ARC isn't iirc. depends on your definition of modern. 11:58:20 arc by paul graham? 11:58:26 y 11:58:53 java,c++,dot net and the like? 11:59:24 all lexically scoped, but most of them don't have functions as first class values, so it matters less 12:00:06 even the likes of python and ruby? 12:03:37 I think so. perl yes. 12:07:52 perl and lisp have both scoping variants. afaik, all other "popular" languages are lexically scoped. 12:08:38 ... common lisp, at least. I'm not sure about the other variants. 12:09:47 Pretty much what I've noticed too (re Perl and CL being the only two common languages that offer both lexical and dynamic scoping). Oh, and Scheme implementations that support that SRFI (let-fluid, etc.). 12:11:40 emacs-lisp has lexical-let, and soon will have lexical binding (and I guess still dynamic scope, not sure how that will work) 12:13:00 Hehe. 12:13:15 nobody claims emacs-lisp is modern, I guess 12:15:59 C macros are "dynamically scoped", if you really want to reach. 12:17:00 *pukes* 12:18:29 that is really unhygenic of you 12:18:52 Can't we just call them statically nonscoped? 12:20:40 Lol (re unhygienic). :-) 12:21:00 Obfuscate: "statically nonscoped" sounds content-free to me. 12:21:11 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:21:13 Is Arc kickiing? 12:22:13 cky: I was trying to choose a term that's about as useful as C macros are. ;) 12:24:25 they have parameters, which hide things, so nonscoped doesn't sound right. 12:24:46 at least I think/hope parameters hide things. 12:25:02 Obfuscate: :-D 12:25:57 bremner: I'm not sure what you mean by "hide things." 12:27:45 #define foo(x) x=1 \n int x=0,y=0; \n foo(y); 12:31:13 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:31:17 Do you just mean that parameter names used within the macro will be replaced by the value (which is just a string) of the parameter? 12:32:16 right, so "hiding" the variable x 12:32:44 C macros are just raw text replacement/expansion: the macro isn't aware the variables x and y even exist. 12:32:47 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 12:33:16 so? the effect is the same isn't it? 12:33:58 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 12:34:04 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:01 Sure, as long as one doesn't care about sane error messages (or actual runtime dynamic scoping). 12:35:34 Any embedded guys/gals in here? 12:35:56 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:36:16 Obfuscate: oh, sure, I don't claim C macros are nice. 12:36:17 plz have a look at http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ 12:36:28 i need help for break in 12:40:22 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:56 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:42:09 xvilka [~xvilka@ip-79-111-220-160.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #scheme 12:42:18 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has left #scheme 12:42:50 hi! are there any examples of CAS/NumericCalculations written in Scheme? 12:56:30 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #scheme 12:57:01 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:57:32 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:55 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:22:52 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:29 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 13:28:00 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #scheme 13:30:17 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:42 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:32:51 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #scheme 13:50:52 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:01 erus_ [56a2e253@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.162.226.83] has joined #scheme 14:02:25 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #scheme 14:03:20 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:37 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #scheme 14:22:39 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-74.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 14:26:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:29:27 -!- tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 14:32:30 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:35:18 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 14:37:11 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:16 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:54 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:49:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:02 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:55:58 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:02:03 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 15:03:56 -!- xvilka [~xvilka@ip-79-111-220-160.bb.netbynet.ru] has left #scheme 15:07:34 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:10:50 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:11:19 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:13:48 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 15:17:09 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:45 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:19:46 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:21:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:22:17 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:25:13 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:03 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:06 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 15:31:46 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:02 dzhus [~sphinx@95-24-202-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:36:09 TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has joined #scheme 15:36:53 you don't have to use begin with set! correct? 15:39:32 so, if I have list x =>(1 5 3) and list y =>(4 6) and I write a procedure that adds an item to y while deleting it from x (proc 5 x y) => x= (1 3) and y= (5 4 6) 15:39:54 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:40:08 What will you do when x is (5) and y is ()? 15:40:56 x and y start as default () so it would be x= () y= (5) 15:41:25 How do you expect to turn a non-empty list into an empty list? What operations will you perform on it to do so? 15:42:30 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [] 15:42:43 filter would return () or I could use a cond. I'm just wondering why it only does 1 of the set! 15:43:25 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:29 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:43:46 SET! is an operation on a variable binding; your procedure can't touch the variables X and Y. It can touch their values -- sometimes. There's no operation to modify (), though; e.g., to turn it into a pair. 15:44:17 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:24 maybe the problem is that it is (set! list (append thing sublist1)) and (set! list (remove thing sublist2) 15:45:29 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:00 i am new to set! atm so I may be missing something obvious 15:46:31 SET! is, I think, the most confusing part of Scheme for novices, and Scheme would have done well to lose it thirty years ago, but it's too late for that now. 15:47:07 Sussman did not seem happy about it in those MIT videos from the 70s 15:48:59 Eighties, not seventies, but OK. Anyway, suppose you define a procedure like so: (define (frobnosticate x from to) ... (set! from ...) ... (set! to ...) ...). When somebody evaluates (frobnisticate 5 x y), the FROBNOSTICATE procedure knows nothing about the variables X and Y; it sees only their values, through its own variables FROM and TO. When FROBNOSTICATE evaluates (set! from ...) or (set! to ...), only FROBNOSTICATE sees updates to FROM 15:51:18 Suppose you tried to evaluate (frobnosticate 5 (cons 5 '()) '()); should then Scheme return () from the expression (cons 5 '()), and (5) from the expression '(), forever after? That is no more the case than that after (frobnosticate 5 x y) x and y should have different values. 15:51:28 ok, so I am setting a variable that is a list to a procedure that modifies elements in that list 15:52:20 but that procedure's value is the modified list 15:52:52 -!- xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53:16 i appreciate all the help btw 15:53:33 You can return a new list (or two new lists, with VALUES, and receive them with RECEIVE). 15:56:17 (set! list (receive list (proc-on list))) 15:56:50 No, that's not how RECEIVE works. Forget about VALUES and RECEIVE for a bit; just use a list of two elements if you want to return two lists. 15:57:31 maybe, this changes it, but I am working on lists that reside in the same list but under different keys 15:59:13 (main list (key1 ...) (key2 ...)) so -> (set! main-list (proc-on key1)) (set! main-list (proc-on key2)) 16:00:41 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-24-202-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:22 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:03:21 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 16:09:42 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:11:30 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-7.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:13:14 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #scheme 16:13:33 -!- erus_ [56a2e253@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.162.226.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:17:21 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has left #scheme 16:18:26 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:21 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 16:19:39 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:20:10 hi all. i'm looking to write a scheme implementation as an exercise. is there a large test suite somewhere i can adapt to my project? 16:21:37 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #scheme 16:23:28 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 16:37:14 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:08 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 16:49:44 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:16 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-7.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:10 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:53:28 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:54 ymasory: 16:56:56 Oops 16:57:08 ymasory: I've seen this one mentioned in here before: http://sisc-scheme.org/r5rs_pitfall.php 16:57:29 But, I don't know how good it is, or if there are better ones, or even if you want to be R5RS compliant 16:58:07 But, googling `R5RS test suite' brings up a load of results 16:58:09 fds: thanks. i wanted to start with core language not r5rs 16:58:32 Well, I guess you can take that and then remove the tests you're not interested in 16:58:48 that makes sense 16:59:23 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:59:30 s/that/whatever you find on the Internet that looks good/ :-) 17:00:32 yeah i've been going through google. i just thought i'd ask for advice here too, since so many people implement scheme and probably have this need 17:01:25 Yeah, I'd love to be more useful, but I can't be. Someone else might pipe up. 17:02:21 ymasory_ [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:27 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:40 -!- ymasory_ is now known as ymasory 17:04:14 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 17:05:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:07:40 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:02 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:41 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-170497.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 17:29:56 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:54 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:33:07 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:35:59 choas [~lars@p5792C29F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:28 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 17:41:54 -!- saccade [~saccade@74-95-7-186-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:10:40 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:35 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:32 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:26 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:19 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:15:36 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:55 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:50 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:26:46 ymasory: What's "core language" if not R5RS? 18:30:00 cky: i'm just beginning. i was going by what the wikipedia article said 18:30:05 it made the distinction 18:31:58 HG`` [~HG@p5DC05CDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:32:53 O_o 18:33:49 ymasory: Do you have a quote where a distinction was made? 18:34:53 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:43 hmm i'd have to go through it again. but if you say the distinction is bunk i believe you 18:36:34 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-4.html#%_idx_6 but that's kinda bunk too 18:36:35 http://tinyurl.com/3sldm38 18:37:33 ymasory: maybe you confused R6RS with R5RS 18:39:11 sloyd: i think so. first paragraph of the Implementations section 18:42:09 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:36 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 18:55:10 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-38-163.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:55:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:48 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 19:00:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:52 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:51 ijp [~user@host86-163-219-165.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:15:56 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:16:27 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:17:35 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:32 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:11 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:13 -!- user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:15 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 19:34:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-123.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:36:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:52 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:37:05 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-96.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:37:06 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-96.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:13 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-96.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:42:21 user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #scheme 19:44:38 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-96.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:48:50 Axius [~skg@109.97.42.132] has joined #scheme 19:48:58 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:25 I get this mgs when I want to compile stk from source :make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. 19:49:59 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:50:37 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo5.79.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:11 AtnNn [~welcome@173.177.239.60] has joined #scheme 19:52:31 Axius: Most open-source programs require you to run ./configure before you run make. 19:53:07 masm [~masm@bl16-168-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:54:50 ok 20:00:45 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:36 erus_ [56a2e253@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.162.226.83] has joined #scheme 20:01:38 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:43 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:08:37 foof: read-string from (chibi io) doesn't seem to play to well with string ports (at least not on non-trivial cases), is this a known issue? 20:08:45 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed592.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:08:55 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f7692f0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:36 both on osx and linux 20:13:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:49 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:13:50 fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has joined #scheme 20:13:56 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:14:26 -!- Axius [~skg@109.97.42.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:17:54 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:20:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 20:29:02 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-38-163.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: DT``] 20:29:10 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 20:30:02 DT`` 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