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has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:56:51 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-nqdeckpognldxfdv] has joined #scheme 02:56:51 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-nqdeckpognldxfdv] has quit [Changing host] 02:56:52 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 03:00:42 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:16:28 blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:16:57 -!- blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:17:18 blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:53 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:07 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 03:23:27 -!- yx [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/yx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:34 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:52 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:25:00 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:20 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:21 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:21 -!- DrAfk [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:21 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:21 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:22 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:22 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:22 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:22 -!- bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:22 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:38:13 yx [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/yx] has joined #scheme 03:41:14 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 03:48:50 Do any of you know of a nicer way to generate a range of integers than (* (expt -1 (random 2)) (random k)) 03:50:20 You mean like (+ low (random (high-low))) 03:50:40 wtf, (- high low) 03:51:55 -!- zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Quit: zanes] 03:52:24 well (random k) randomly results in 0, 1, 2, 3, .... k-1. 03:52:37 timj_ [~timj@e176194067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:53:21 what if i want a uniformly distributed random variable for integers between -5 and 8 let's say. 03:53:45 do you mean like take your range and then just shift it to the left? 03:54:21 yeah i think that's the way. 03:56:50 -!- timj [~timj@e176199130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:26 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:58:48 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 DrAfk [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:07 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 04:07:06 -!- ssbr_ [~ssbr@gw-wifi4.cdf.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:16:57 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:18:08 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:24:42 bokr [~eduska@109.110.56.51] has joined #scheme 04:25:55 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 04:27:14 I am programming this scheme game in a pretty imperative way. Pretty much using it like python but fast and with lots of brackets. I need to learn2FP 04:28:52 lewis1711: The best way to lern2fp is to use Haskell. There, you are forced to do everything using FP. ;-) 04:30:07 -!- _danb_ is now known as lol 04:30:37 -!- lol is now known as Guest87636 04:31:58 oh yeah 04:32:20 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.77.122] has joined #scheme 04:34:58 :p then you'll find out about monads and use them to code in a pretty imperative way 04:37:19 rapacity: My goggles, they do nothing! 04:41:07 perhaps it doesn't help that 1/3rd of it is actually in c 04:43:22 :p 04:46:06 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:48:41 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:27 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:50:51 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 04:50:55 ssbr [ssbr@24-246-54-205.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:55:09 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:28 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:55:35 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:58 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:56:41 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:56 -!- Guest87636 is now known as _danb_ 05:20:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:26:28 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 05:32:02 lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 05:46:14 -!- Fare [~Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:47:50 -!- blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:41 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 06:03:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:21:17 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:32 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 06:21:47 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 06:25:55 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:31:47 user18 [~user@p5B2A9877.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 06:35:18 -!- user17 [~user@p5B2A9BBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:44:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:22 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:55:07 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:14 pattern_ [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:26 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:02 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:30:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:30:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:32:14 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 07:37:46 -!- lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: lbc] 07:38:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:38:41 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-89.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 07:39:13 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:10 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:45:38 -!- saccade [~saccade@c-67-180-11-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:48:26 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:00 saccade [~saccade@c-67-180-11-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:55:10 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:55:23 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:03:30 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:58 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 08:32:17 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:33:42 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:47:01 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:04 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:52:29 acs [59eed542@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.238.213.66] has joined #scheme 08:54:23 I have a problem of computability theory. I do not know where to ask, and I ask you where to ask for: there is a theorem in computability theory that a machine that can do these 3 basic operations : define variables, DEC (var) decrements, and WHILE (!x) { ... } , is Turing -complete 08:54:35 do you know a referecnce for this theorem ? 09:17:43 -!- acs [59eed542@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.238.213.66] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:19:39 acs_: I guess you would have to be more precise in the 'define variable' section. 09:20:32 acs_: I don't know if any pre-defined theorem with demonstration has been published, but it's rather trivial, if it is Turing complete, to demonstrate it: you only have to implement an emulator for a universal Turing machine. 09:22:23 acs_: so, while it looks quite powerful, to be TUring complete, it will need to have an infinite memory. If you can define an infinite (or at least unbound) number of variables, then I think you can implement a Universal Turing Machine with it. For that, you will have to be able to define variables indexed by an expression (another variable). 09:28:14 sounds like some kind of peano machine 09:28:34 there is no bound on the size of numbers, so you could probably use them for the tape 09:31:39 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:00 -!- ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has left #scheme 09:43:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:44:05 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:44:59 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 09:46:55 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:57:22 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:59 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:25 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:52:52 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.77.122] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 10:54:24 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 10:57:15 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 10:58:13 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:31 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 11:01:35 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:02:43 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:04:09 In Racket, how would I find the name of a procedure? e.g. given map I'd want to get 'map or "map" or somesuch. 11:10:27 in the repl? or the docs? 11:13:48 :p object-name? 11:14:02 rudybot: (define (toast) 1) 11:14:02 rapacity: your sandbox is ready 11:14:02 rapacity: Done. 11:14:10 rudybot: (object-name toast) 11:14:10 rapacity: ; Value: toast 11:14:20 zmv [~daniel@c934a93a.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:14:41 rudybot: (map object-name (list + - display printf)) 11:14:41 rapacity: ; Value: (+ - display printf) 11:15:14 ping ssbr 11:17:16 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:17:27 Excellent, thank you 11:26:31 ugh, related note, is there anything to turn an arbitrary value into a string? I'm using symbol->string for the result of (object-name), but, say, for lists or numbers or whatever... 11:27:28 (I'm hopping to avoid defining my own function with a huge case expression) 11:27:57 ssbr: contrarily to Common Lisp, scheme (r5rs) avoids defining generic functions. There are individual functions for each type of object. There are various *->string functions. 11:28:23 If you want a single function, you will have to implement it with the huge case expression, or to implement an object system and print-object methods. 11:28:39 you can use format 11:28:44 Possibly, you can find a library defining such an object system, and such functions. 11:29:08 ssbr: format or write may do what you want together with-output-from-string 11:29:10 rudybot: (format "~a~a~a" (list 1 2) 'fff +) 11:29:11 rapacity: ; Value: "(1 2)fff#" 11:29:43 pjb`: I don't mean Scheme, I mean Racket 11:29:52 I know Racket has *some* way to do it, because it does it itself in the REPL. 11:29:56 Well, if Racket is not Scheme, I know nothing about it. 11:30:18 ssbr: maybe ask on #racket 11:30:23 Why don't you check the documentation. I hear Racket comes with quite an extensive integrated documentation system. 11:30:39 I always check the documentation before asking on IRC. 11:31:06 format looks correct 11:34:48 rapacity: thanks. Might even be more useful than just for this, also. 11:34:57 bremner: sorry, didn't know that channel existed. Will ask in the future. 11:43:40 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:39 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:36 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58:38 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-244.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:58:39 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:10 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:21 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:24 masm [~masm@bl16-171-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:02:28 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-244.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:03:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-244.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:12:19 -!- user18 [~user@p5B2A9877.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:14:49 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:17:27 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:04 kuribas [~user@dD576355E.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 12:38:22 <_danb_> quack! 12:38:39 <_danb_> quack users, why on earth is quack taking over my 'v' key? 12:39:00 you have to imagine the rest of the duck underneath 12:39:03 http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lar16td1gR1qzxsrbo1_400.jpg? 12:39:04 <_danb_> does it assume I will never use v in my scheme code??? 12:39:17 <_danb_> is quack modal????? 12:39:35 <_danb_> lord, my scheme-mode-map is all crazy; I can't fix it without rebooting emacs 12:39:46 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:39:47 <_danb_> help I say! help! 12:40:15 <_danb_> elly: that's not helping 12:40:20 <_danb_> soothing yes 12:40:23 <_danb_> helping no 12:41:25 <_danb_> .seen offby1 12:41:31 <_danb_> rudybot: seen offby1 12:41:32 _danb_: offby1 was seen in/on #scheme five days ago, saying "scheme isn't.", and then offby1 was seen quitting in/on pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1 three days ago, saying "Read error: Connection reset by peer" 12:43:45 <_danb_> ugghh 12:45:55 <_danb_> hm, that duckling is cute though 12:51:05 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:59:23 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-171-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:59:29 jesusito [~user@58.pool85-49-45.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 13:02:44 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 13:06:42 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 13:13:35 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 13:15:12 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:21:30 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-59-82-252-182-108.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:22:57 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 13:28:58 -!- rien 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joined #scheme 17:11:49 jesusito [~user@58.pool85-49-45.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 17:17:38 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:52 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #scheme 17:24:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:29:31 kuribas [~user@dD576355E.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:37:26 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-59-82-252-182-108.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:38:46 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:39:10 -!- githogori [~githogori@139.sub-75-208-56.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:26 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:28 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:45 mathk [~mathk@83.158.230.146] has joined #scheme 17:43:43 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #scheme 17:48:11 cpach_ [~carl@h167n3-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:05 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:33 -!- cpach [~carl@h167n3-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:51:37 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 17:52:36 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 17:53:21 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #scheme 17:53:59 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f768a39.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:54:11 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f77bf2d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:55:37 does anyone know of an example where the tail-call-optimization in Scheme will stand out compared to say python (or something else). Like, I would love an example of some simple algorithm such that Scheme will just keep on happily going, but Python will overflow. 17:56:44 (define (fact a n) (if (<= 1 n) a (fact (* a n) (- n 1)))) 17:56:50 will kill python for sufficiently large n 17:58:55 em: pretty much anywhere you use tail calls a lot :P 17:59:02 any example that didn't have a trivial for loop solution would be even better ;) 17:59:19 a mutually recursive word counter 18:02:07 speaking of performance, are there standard approaches to efficiently compiling first class lexically scoped procedures? I guess your grampa's stack frame isn't enough anymore. 18:08:42 -!- kuribas [~user@dD576355E.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:15:57 -!- mwolfe [~michael@dhcp-v015-129.mobile.uci.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:14 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 18:20:31 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 18:21:13 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 18:21:39 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:21:56 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #scheme 18:41:17 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:48 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:05 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:59:40 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:01:56 -!- cpach_ is now known as cpach 19:05:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:02 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:07 choas [~lars@p5792C75C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:53 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:11:32 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:19:17 -!- Fill [~Fill@unaffiliated/fill] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:19:47 Fill [~Fill@static.195.170.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 19:21:11 jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has joined #scheme 19:21:36 *jcowan* unvanishes. 19:24:13 -!- jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:39 jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has joined #scheme 19:24:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:13 -!- jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:40 jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has joined #scheme 19:26:19 masm [~masm@bl16-171-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:26:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:28:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:43 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 19:31:42 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:48 kuribas [~user@94-226-51-93.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:38:11 -!- jesusito [~user@58.pool85-49-45.dynamic.orange.es] has left #scheme 19:38:50 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:57:52 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 20:07:22 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:14:05 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 20:15:52 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:04 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:10 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:19 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 20:49:31 museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:40 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 20:55:08 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 21:01:52 Schemers. What are the rules for when to add ! to the end of a procedure name. 21:02:15 -!- jcowan [c6b91222@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:02:23 (visible) mutation of arguments, i'd say 21:02:40 APPEND! may modify the list it is passed as an argument 21:03:28 Visible mutation. 21:03:52 Like some `add-handler!' that mutates something that is not an argument. 21:04:13 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 21:06:15 nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:08:25 So "(listen so)" not "(listen! so)" to start listening on socket SO (returning unspecified). 21:11:14 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:21 thats probably a good idea 21:14:32 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:25 jao [~user@1.Red-83-36-223.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:25 -!- jao [~user@1.Red-83-36-223.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:25 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:17:45 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:46 What if you have "invisible" mutation but want to distinguish between a non-side-effecting and a side-effecting variant. 21:18:28 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:19:11 For example "(socket-connect address)" to return a fresh socket object connected to address, and "(socket-connect! so address)" to connect to address on existing socket SO. 21:19:20 Is this incorrect? 21:19:51 that seems ok 21:20:22 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:21:00 -!- kuribas [~user@94-226-51-93.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:02 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 21:24:26 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:23 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:29:31 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 21:30:26 ahc [~Antti@z241.ip6.netikka.fi] has joined #scheme 21:30:29 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:52 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:26 Maybe I will ask again when there are people around. 21:37:15 ask what again d: 21:37:30 well you're welcome :p 21:38:00 zbigniew: If the mutation is invisible, I'm pretty sure it'd be kind of described in the function name. 21:38:30 jonrafkind: I noted your reply don't worry, I was hoping for several though 21:38:37 when you see socket-connect, it's clear that it implies an invisible side effect. 21:39:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 21:39:00 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 21:39:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:39:46 zmv: this is the direction I was leaning, that it would more properly be expressed with a name change other than adding ! 21:39:49 but when you use socket-connect!, you are doing a visible mutation. 21:40:56 zmv: what is a "visible" mutation when it comes to a socket object? not possible? 21:41:47 zbigniew: when you connect to an existing socket, that's a visible mutation. 21:41:55 at least compared to the act of creating a new socket. 21:42:38 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:12 that would seem to indicate I should use "listen!" instead of "listen", since it activates listening on an existing socket 21:47:48 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:49:14 well, except when the function may have nasty side-effects when misused, you may omit the ! 21:49:21 nasty/undesirable 21:59:57 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #scheme 22:10:46 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 22:10:52 nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:09 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:21 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:47 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:57 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:31:28 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-161-175.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 22:35:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:40:22 -!- ssbr [ssbr@24-246-54-205.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:41:01 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:20 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:45:26 zbigniew: I don't know if you'll find this illuminating, but that is discussed in: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 22:45:29 `Avoid using the exclamation mark willy nilly for just *any* procedure 22:45:30 the purpose of destructive update' 22:45:32 Oops 22:45:34 whose operation involves any kind of mutation or side effect; instead, 22:45:37 use the exclamation mark to identify procedures that exist *solely* for 22:45:38 I wasn't expecting that :-| 22:45:49 Anyway, it goes on, &c, &c. 22:46:36 fds: ah, riastradh by proxy 22:48:06 Yeah, even if he has abandoned us, we can still get advice from him. :-| 22:48:22 funny thing is all the official examples i can find are always trivial, like append! and set-car! 22:48:27 like ... duh 22:48:44 the gods never rule on the hard stuff 22:50:10 Heh, indeed 22:50:54 But I get the impression that he thinks many people get carried away with !s when more descriptive names might be appropriate 22:51:06 I don't really have a clue though 22:52:09 Also, I seem to recall him having more to say about it. Looking at the text now it's not very enlightening at all. 22:52:18 Sorry. :-P 22:52:42 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C75C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:55 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:06:16 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:13:52 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 23:17:03 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 23:18:21 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 23:19:23 fds: i think the usage is not well-defined honestly and so I am going to strip out exclamation points wherever possible 23:19:50 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 23:21:17 zbigniew: Cool, I think you're doing the right thing. (Seeing what you said in #chicken too. :-)) 23:21:50 don't antagonize Riastradh 23:22:05 Heh 23:22:18 *fds* shan't mention the other place again 23:28:11 zanes_ [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 23:29:48 -!- zanes_ is now known as zanes 23:30:17 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:31:57 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:33:56 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-89.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:24 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 23:35:54 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:37:41 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:43:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:58 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:55:28 -!- pumpkin is now known as djtiesto 23:56:37 -!- djtiesto is now known as copumpkin