00:00:16 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:01 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 00:06:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-109.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:07:56 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-109.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:08:34 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:05 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 00:24:42 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 00:36:19 So much for the grad students spending all night on irc... 00:36:39 Can someone help me understand these read tables? I've got some code that's not working as expected. https://gist.github.com/819682 00:36:52 I thought it'd just call my ->js function and fail there at worst, but not fail in read. 00:37:08 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-230-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:45 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-165-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 00:40:16 ASau [~user@95-26-230-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:42:38 what is tuple-readtable? 00:48:33 oops. 00:49:48 jonrafkind: It should have read js-readtable, but changing that makes no difference 01:04:55 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 01:07:06 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:42 -!- zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Quit: zanes] 01:22:39 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:38 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:25:51 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:59 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f768280.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:26:11 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f7695cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 01:28:07 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:32:37 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-jdfakrinapnxoenc] has joined #scheme 01:35:42 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37:51 -!- noonian [~noonian@c-24-20-15-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:08 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:01 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:46:50 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:50:59 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:25 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:07 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:25 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:25 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:03:25 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:07:58 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:08:48 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-171-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:55 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 02:17:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:19:36 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 02:21:59 wisey [~Steven@host86-164-95-81.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 02:23:51 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-164-95-81.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:49 noonian [~noonian@c-24-20-15-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:39:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:21 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:42:30 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunboud t plese!] 02:53:10 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-qyndjtzexrotfjyu] has joined #scheme 02:53:10 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-qyndjtzexrotfjyu] has quit [Changing host] 02:53:11 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 02:57:38 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe84:fec4] has joined #scheme 03:20:02 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:23:44 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:24:14 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:24:51 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:07 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 03:33:30 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:34:50 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:37:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/119538 you see the let statement here at line 3? Is there a way so I can define something there that relied on what I just defined? ie end-x and end-y don't work 03:38:22 You want let* rather than let; let* is equivalent to nested lets. 03:38:45 aha, thankyou 03:42:16 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as oo-o-ooo-oo 03:43:39 let* is awesomesauce. 03:44:02 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:44:05 let* is the wildcard 03:44:18 rapacity: O_o 03:44:39 :p the asterik sign at the end 03:48:59 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:59 every time i see let*, the christmas carol "let it snow" lodges itself firmly in my head 03:51:19 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe84:fec4] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 03:52:34 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:14:40 too much christmas, not enough FP! 04:24:31 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 04:36:35 is the use of parameter objects considered especially good or bad form in the scheme community? 04:36:35 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:54 What are parameter objects? 04:40:22 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-39/srfi-39.html 04:42:15 the following quote is from the guide to a popular Scheme implementation, "All else being equal, a program that uses no assignments or mutation is always preferable to one that uses assignments or mutation." 04:42:21 I don't know, but I assume if the scheme community made the effort of writing a SRFI for them, then they should be useful. 04:42:40 (1) What does mutation mean in this context? and (2) If that quote is true, what is the best explanation for why it is true? 04:42:49 set! 04:42:52 and similar. 04:43:31 The problem with set! is that it makes programs harder to understand, to prove, to parallelize, to debug, and slower and less energy efficient. 04:44:08 And I'm sure you can find half a dozen inconvenients more too. 04:48:35 don't forget loud, what with all the exclamations 04:49:16 dynamic vars, mutation, and goto statements are all useful 04:50:04 but there are usually safer ways to do things without them 04:52:43 well what does mutation mean? 04:52:56 em: things like `x++;` 04:53:05 where you change the value of a variable 04:53:21 saccade [~saccade@c-67-180-11-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:38 I just found this line on Wikipedia: "Imperative programming is known for uncontrolled, promiscuous use of side effects." 04:55:41 what harlotry 04:56:29 Indeed, there's no reason to be dogmatic about it. All paradygms are useful. Check sicp to see examples of the usefulness of mutation. 04:57:11 Usefulness and ugliness. :-) (I think they have quite a balanced view) 04:57:14 em: when you run a function and it goes off and modifies something else in the process (a "side effect"), that can lead to messy programming and unexpected errors 04:57:46 But if you're not dumb, you don't do uncontrolled side effects. 04:58:24 of course, some things have to be side effects... `rm` should do the side effect of deleting the specified file 04:58:32 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 04:58:39 (or I suppose it could copy your disk with that file omitted) 04:59:44 a purely-functional file system 04:59:55 wonder why no one's tried that... 05:00:31 evhan: really, we should just count on the compiler to do it efficiently 05:01:38 Capability based systems are like that. You just build a directory without the file. When no directory refers the file anymore, it's garbage collected. Actually, that's exactly how unix file systems work. 05:02:04 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 05:02:50 pjb: indeed, for reasons of efficiency rather than correctness. interesting 05:03:49 evhan: lol doing the wrong thing fast 05:04:03 You could make a "copy" of a unix file system, by linking all the files in a shadow directory tree, so that rm doesn't really delete the file. 05:04:59 -!- oo-o-ooo-oo is now known as kilimanjaro 05:05:29 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 05:05:34 kilimanjaro: is that morse code/ 05:06:00 adu, no but it should have been 05:06:13 it does not parse correctly as morse code, at least 05:06:31 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as dash-dot-dot-das 05:06:45 oh ya, you need 3 symbols for that 05:07:00 ...- ...- 05:07:24 -!- dash-dot-dot-das is now known as kilimanjaro 05:27:19 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has left #scheme 05:33:51 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-83-50.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:34:23 pjb: Would you mind explaining your comment in #lisp about Scheme not being able to `host itself' like CL could? I'm just interested. :-) 05:35:35 Just a little clue about what to read about would be fine. 05:35:50 For one thing, the syntax of scheme is defined "syntactically", it's not defined from s-exps. 05:36:35 Now, of course, eval is specified to take sexps, so something can be done with it, but it doesn't feel exactly the same. 05:36:53 I'm refering to r5rs, I know little more about scheme. 05:37:44 Hm, I see. Well, only talking about R5RS is okay 05:37:53 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:37:55 I just wondered what property it was that would cause problems 05:38:23 Perhaps in practice it causes no problem. 05:38:44 It's the syntactic definition of scheme which disturbs me. 05:40:04 Okay, I guess I'll have to have a look at the CL syntax definition and see how it compares :-) 05:48:33 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:51:03 fds: CL is defined on the sexp. The sexps are the real sources in a CL program. The lisp reader defines the mapping of text to sexp, but it's highly customizable with reader macros. 05:56:19 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:31 Hmm, okay. Well, thanks. You've given me something to think about at least. :-) 06:15:08 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 06:30:26 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:42 user18 [~user@p5B2A9BBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 06:34:02 -!- user17 [~user@p5B2A9935.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:39:38 -!- noonian [~noonian@c-24-20-15-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:47:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:40 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 06:57:44 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:06:06 -!- certainty [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:25 certainty [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 07:21:31 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-182-198-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 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[~vu3rdd@122.167.108.176] has joined #scheme 12:22:57 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.108.176] has quit [Changing host] 12:22:57 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 12:23:22 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:26:13 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:33 f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #scheme 12:40:43 ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has joined #scheme 12:55:07 i'm having problems typing in a regexp in racket. i think "it"'s trying to interpret my escapes 12:55:17 it says "read: unknown escape sequence \. in string" 12:58:17 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 12:58:42 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Client Quit] 12:58:50 ironChicken: \ has a meaning inside strings. Try adding another backslash to escape its special meaning inside the string 12:59:29 so does racket provide a reader macro for typing in regexes? 12:59:52 *mario-goulart* wonders if ironRacket uses chicken 13:00:34 :P 13:01:01 ironChicken: Chicken has an extension for that. Racket may too 13:01:31 playing with chicken is on my todo list 13:01:43 especially compiling for N900 13:01:59 DerGuteMoritz: heads up 13:02:37 say what! 13:03:06 I don't have an N900 :-) 13:03:53 No!? 13:05:42 zmv [~daniel@c953305f.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 the N900 is Maemo based IIRC 13:07:04 I have an Android phone 13:08:15 I thought you had an N900. 13:09:33 there's a working .deb of CLISP for Maemo 13:09:42 and emacs23 13:10:10 racket now says "regexp: invalid range within square brackets in pattern" about "^[A-Za-z0-9_\\-.]+@[a-z0-9\\-]+\\.[a-z0-9\\-.]+" 13:10:20 Maemo is built using openembedded. There are chicken recipes for openembedded. 13:10:31 python is happy with the same regex 13:10:34 (coincidently, I'm fixing them now) 13:10:43 Harrold [~quassel@134.117.254.250] has joined #scheme 13:15:00 -!- mathk [~mathk@83.159.33.33] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:15:54 ironChicken: try moving the "-" to the end of both charsets 13:16:09 leaving off the \\, should not be necessary at the end 13:16:25 I don't know what regexp engine Racket uses though 13:17:05 you may want to check out SREs though: http://www.scsh.net/docu/post/sre.html and http://synthcode.com/scheme/irregex/ 13:17:33 thanks. moving the - to the end of character class worked 13:17:40 yw 13:21:27 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:27:49 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:53 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:32:11 -!- jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:45:29 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:37 Where can I find old RnRS (n < 3)? 13:58:30 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:41 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 14:07:04 mario-goulart: Abrey Jaffer has old RnRSes on his website. I don't know if they go anywhere before R3RS though 14:41:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:46:04 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #scheme 14:53:11 -!- Harrold [~quassel@134.117.254.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:38 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:58:59 jimrees [~jimrees@pool-96-237-230-95.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:07 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:17:38 Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-182-198-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 15:26:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:30:07 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:37 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 15:46:44 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:52:19 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 15:52:19 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 15:52:19 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:56:07 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 16:04:29 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 16:07:29 Intensity [UH2MNxfCXr@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 16:07:39 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:11:49 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 16:34:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:19 Harrold [~quassel@dhcp-101-110.hpsc-staff.carleton.ca] has joined #scheme 16:40:42 -!- scaman [~lowscaloo@n112119180003.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:45:33 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:49 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:52:13 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:50 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:57:14 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:24 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:38 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f7695cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:07:50 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f77bed5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:04 sjamaan: yeah, I've seen that. The oldest I could find is r3rs 17:15:07 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:17:20 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-83-50.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:18:53 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:42 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:56 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:27:49 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:29:54 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:38 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 17:37:52 user17 [~user@p5B2A9BBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:08 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:24 ironChicken: Did you type just the string, or a literal regexp? 17:43:32 rudybot: eval #rx"^[A-Za-z0-9_\\-.]+@[a-z0-9\\-]+\\.[a-z0-9\\-.]+" 17:43:32 eli: your sandbox is ready 17:43:32 eli: error: eval:1:3: read: bad regexp string: invalid range within square brackets in pattern 17:43:36 rudybot: eval #px"^[A-Za-z0-9_\\-.]+@[a-z0-9\\-]+\\.[a-z0-9\\-.]+" 17:43:36 eli: ; Value: #px"^[A-Za-z0-9_\\-.]+@[a-z0-9\\-]+\\.[a-z0-9\\-.]+" 17:44:05 ironChicken: See above -- in the simple #rx syntax a backslash is not significant inside a character range, but in #px it is. 17:44:23 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:00 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 17:51:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:52:19 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:54:48 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:21 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 18:04:01 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04:25 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 18:14:04 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 18:17:51 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:45 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 18:20:56 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 18:39:38 -!- Harrold [~quassel@dhcp-101-110.hpsc-staff.carleton.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:51 zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 18:49:40 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:55:30 -!- copumpkin is now known as auger 18:58:06 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:00:16 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:14 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:02:22 -!- auger is now known as copumpkin 19:03:03 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:19 femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:06:10 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:26 damasxadrezminir [bc523251@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.82.50.81] has joined #scheme 19:17:40 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 19:18:17 i want to learn how to program, scheme is a good language? it is a bit strange? it has some commercial uses? can you recommend a book? 19:18:37 good language: yep 19:18:40 bit strange: sure 19:18:43 commercial use: not really 19:18:48 book: SICP from MIT, or HtDP 19:19:00 (Structure & Interpretation of Computer Programs, and How To Design Programs, respectively) 19:19:27 which is better book? 19:19:48 i am in the 10 grade so my math skills is not great 19:19:49 that depends on your point of view 19:23:32 SICP uses a lot of math? what kind of math do i need to know 19:24:35 damasxadrezminir: the book is available online you could just have a look 19:26:33 damasxadrezminir: i know very little math, but i still learned a lot just from the first few chapters of sicp 19:27:06 cpach: when you said very little, how much? 19:27:09 10 grade? 19:27:25 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27:46 damasxadrezminir: is that 10th grade in the us school system? 19:28:21 i am european,i dont know the us system 19:28:34 damasxadrezminir: neither do i :) 19:30:02 damasxadrezminir: but really, have a peek here http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 19:30:17 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f77bed5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:30:25 damasxadrezminir: i can also recommend _the little schemer_, a great book imho 19:30:29 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f768a39.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:42 it's not heavy on math 19:30:57 and what are the differences between sicp and htdp? 19:31:25 i haven't looked that much into htdp 19:31:46 the seem to attack the "problem" from quite different perspectives 19:32:04 and what is sicp vision? 19:34:06 sicp revolves around having fun with ideas that were new and exciting 30 years ago. htdp teaches people how to program. 19:35:12 eli: so htdp is better do learn how to program 19:35:17 ? 19:36:23 damasxadrezminir: both are online... 19:38:50 damasxadrezminir: If you're looking for a book to learn how to program, then htdp is much better. IMO. 19:39:44 and you are the differences between learning python and scheme? 19:40:41 You mean "what"? 19:40:55 -!- drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:55 yes sorry 19:41:56 I'd say python stimulates the use of side effect operations. Scheme usually doesn't. 19:41:59 damasxadrezminir: the same difference between learning english or french 19:42:05 or apples and bananas 19:42:24 recursion is also not recommended in python and very common in scheme. 19:42:24 yes but i need to choose the first language 19:42:46 mario-goulart: Compared to Python, Ruby doesn't push side-effecting stuff quite so much, although it makes side-effecting operations more readily available than Scheme does. 19:42:51 damasxadrezminir: then just pick one, and change if you don't like it 19:43:19 cky: how's side effect not readily available in scheme? 19:43:28 it is not the republic of haskell :) 19:43:29 mario-goulart: Also, as far as the reference implementation is concerned, most of its non-side-effecting operations are implemented by cloning the object, then calling the side-effecting version on the clone. 19:43:32 They are both strong typed, dynamic languages, though. 19:43:49 C-Keen: You should look at Ruby's standard library. It has ! methods out the wazoo. 19:44:00 cky: interesting. 19:44:03 -!- damasxadrezminir [bc523251@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.82.50.81] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:44:12 cky: does the number of procedures show anything? 19:44:15 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:44:21 _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 19:44:29 C-Keen: Not necessarily. Just something I noticed. 19:44:41 I've heard that the use of `!' in variable names is allowed depending on the phase of the moon. 19:44:49 (in ruby) 19:45:07 mario-goulart: I think variable names can't have !, but method names can. At least that's been my experience with ?. 19:45:25 mario-goulart: It's...odd, compared to what you can do in Scheme. 19:45:29 how nice it is to have consistent rules 19:45:32 Ah, so that was it. 19:45:44 C-Keen: Quite. ;-) 19:46:00 So if you want to bind an anonymous procedure to a variable, you are screwed. 19:46:34 mario-goulart: Well, given that you can't use method call syntax on variables in Ruby, this is not an issue. 19:46:48 ! 19:47:08 mario-goulart: If you, do, say, foo = lambda {...}, you call foo using foo.call(...). 19:47:11 Rather than foo(...). 19:47:28 I see. 19:47:44 Yes, it's lame, and it's stung me a lot in my early days of using Ruby. 19:47:55 So you can't have doit!.call() 19:48:08 Well, if doit! is a method that returns a lambda, then you can. 19:48:23 And it will call that returned lambda. 19:48:42 Ah, ok. 19:49:03 But I mean I cannot have doit! = lambda {...} 19:49:16 That's right. 19:50:08 ok 19:50:36 sudo-do-it-exclamation-mark then 19:55:43 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:52 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 20:08:48 -!- easy4 [~easy4@c-174-60-36-128.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: easy4] 20:09:41 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:12:34 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:20:56 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-108-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:14 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:29:30 -!- f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:38:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:39:47 vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@122.167.69.158] has joined #scheme 20:41:04 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:12 rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 20:50:26 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:26 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:36 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:50 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:53 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:02:11 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:03:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:04:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:04:32 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:09:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:09:17 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:10:40 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:14:56 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 21:27:08 ssbr [ssbr@user214-155.wireless.utoronto.ca] has joined #scheme 21:29:22 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 21:31:01 schmir [~schmir@p54A90867.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:33:01 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:43:30 hee hee hee. Lesson learned: I should learn Scheme before doing Scheme programming 21:44:09 Just because #;(+ 2 3) is highlighted the same as (+ 2 3) (rather than, say, ;(+ 2 3)) by dr. racket doesn't mean it isn't a comment. :( 21:51:26 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:19 f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #scheme 21:55:31 -!- ssbr [ssbr@user214-155.wireless.utoronto.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:04:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:15 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:14 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:54 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 22:13:58 ssbr [~ssbr@gw-wifi4.cdf.utoronto.ca] has joined #scheme 22:15:02 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:31 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 22:25:05 scaman [~lowscaloo@n112119178155.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 22:26:25 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 22:26:28 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90867.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:39:14 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:12 <_danb_> incubot: (if #t 3) 22:40:12 3 22:41:07 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:41:07 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 22:48:33 -!- f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:58:24 kuribas [~user@dD576355E.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 22:59:47 -!- timj [~timj@e176193134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:57 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 23:11:20 timj [~timj@e176199130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:19:23 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 23:20:06 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:20:10 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:22:36 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 23:22:41 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-26-111.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 23:25:44 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 23:29:16 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-211-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:14 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:47 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:13 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:40:39 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:42:10 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:43:25 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 23:44:55 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:52 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:47:26 wisey [~Steven@host86-164-95-81.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:48:41 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:55:41 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-113.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:26 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:56:32 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 23:57:07 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:17 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme