00:02:01 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.223.115] has left #scheme 00:02:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:15 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@2002:4426:8e22:0:5ab0:35ff:fe69:c9bf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:07 -!- fnord123 [~fnord123@79.109.207.14.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:24 fnord123 [~fnord123@79.109.207.14.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:57 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.100.20] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:17:00 -!- fnord123 [~fnord123@79.109.207.14.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:23 fnord123 [~fnord123@79.109.207.14.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:20:31 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 00:21:09 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 49wks 4days 14hrs 52mins 40secs] 00:21:46 -!- fnord123 [~fnord123@79.109.207.14.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:43 paxcoder [~steampunk@unaffiliated/paxcoder] has joined #scheme 00:29:35 arcfide, nope. Got questions about it or something? 00:31:01 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:18 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:25 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:35:55 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:26 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:45:37 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:26 -!- Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:25 Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has joined #scheme 01:02:48 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 01:03:50 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 01:07:22 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:13:17 Riastradh: I am just bringing it up to work with the latest Chez Scheme version. It passes the little channels test that I have for it, but that is about it. 01:14:41 I am still not sure that I ever wrapped my head around the concurrency model. 01:15:30 Phao [pedro-hen@189.107.162.111] has joined #scheme 01:15:56 I wish that there were a tutorial on CML, and all I can find are rather abstract papers. 01:17:11 Riastradh: Oh, and did you ever manage to get some benchmarks on the speed and overhead of something like Scheme-CML? 01:17:54 -!- Phao [pedro-hen@189.107.162.111] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:55 phao_ [pedro-hen@189.107.162.111] has joined #scheme 01:18:36 -!- phao_ [pedro-hen@189.107.162.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:09 Riastradh: Why did you write Scheme-CML to start with? Was it for the mental exercise or did you have a particular application in mind? 01:23:32 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:24:27 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 01:30:05 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:45 -!- Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:35 Anyone experienced with Scheme and Haskell and able to give some degree of comparison? I've been googling, but much of it's a bit dry or in intensely broken English 02:00:06 haskell is hard-core functional -- forces you to use monads. 02:00:08 scheme isn't. 02:00:48 *NihilistDandy* nods. 02:00:58 Short and to the point. I like it :D 02:01:47 pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has joined #scheme 02:05:55 -!- paxcoder [~steampunk@unaffiliated/paxcoder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:36 scheme - metalanguage 02:08:44 haskell - functional 02:09:08 That's a fair comparison. 02:09:12 scheme - good 02:09:15 haskell -baaad 02:09:17 :D 02:09:36 All right, then. Scheme it'll be :D 02:10:46 btw. implement haskell on scheme much more simpler than scheme on haskell. Or not? 02:11:11 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@196.Red-79-150-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Grazl] 02:11:17 probably easier to implement scheme on haskell :p 02:11:46 scheme has a simpler syntax for one 02:12:15 NihilistDandy: Well, I assume that your mind is already made up since you are asking us in here. ;-) 02:12:38 maybe he's a spy ? 02:13:12 yep. from ML-world 02:13:34 and ask about haskell and scheme only for stealth purpose 02:17:45 arcfide: Haha, yeah, mostly. 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has joined #scheme 23:39:49 elly: ping 23:39:55 eli: pong 23:40:28 Did you resolve the TR issues you had? 23:40:54 The use case that you wanted to get seemed pretty trivial -- specifically, it didn't look like something that needed disjoint unions. 23:41:09 (Which is what the PLAI language adds (kind of).) 23:43:58 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-90-26.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:48 eli: no, I didn't - are you about to suggest something clever? :) 23:45:16 elly: No, I was trying to figure out if you figured it out... 23:45:47 elly: The first thing you had was: data Type = TInt | TString | TBoolean | TArrow Type Type | ... 23:46:05 IIRC, those are all constants, right? (Except for `TArrow'.) 23:46:06 well, really what I want is: 23:46:26 data Type = TInt | TString | TBoolean | TArray Type | TRef Type | TArrow Type Type | ... 23:46:36 there are a few of these of arity > 0 23:47:12 (I am trying to represent the types available in www.cs.cmu.edu/~fp/courses/15122-f10/misc/c0-reference.pdf, which is a C-like language) 23:47:39 And of the ones you listed `TInt' and `TString' and `TBoolean' are all constants? 23:48:32 yeah 23:49:05 so (TArrow (TRef TInt) (TArray TBoolean)) is a function that takes an int ref and returns a boolean array, just so we're clear 23:49:14 (or rather, is the type of ~) 23:49:48 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:13 (I'm explicitly avoiding the meaning of these things, and focusing on just the representation issues.) 23:50:24 So for all of the constants, you can just use symbols. 23:50:24 *elly* nods 23:50:34 Then, for each of the constructors, you'd define a struct. 23:50:35 well, sure, but what does that actually look like in TR? 23:50:46 Each struct has its own type, so those are obvious. 23:50:58 Then, you'd end up with a type that looks roughly like: 23:51:23 (U 'int 'string 'boolean Array Arrow Ref) 23:51:45 The thing is that any value can be used as a type -- which is especially useful for symbols. 23:52:02 what does 'any value can be used as a type' mean? 23:52:24 For example, if you type "foo" on the TR repl, it will consider it as a String, but if you type 'foo you'll see that it assigns it a type of 'foo. 23:52:52 'boolean is a symbol -- it's a valid value for the Symbol type. 23:53:05 But since it's TR, you get subtypes, which makes things more fun. 23:53:16 For example, it's also a valid value for the Any type. 23:53:40 when is that (that symbols inhabit a singleton type named after themselves) ever useful? 23:53:44 (Except that these things are not so useful -- you won't be able to use any symbol function with it without an explicit `symbol?' check.) 23:54:03 And in addition, it's also a value value of the 'boolean type -- a type that has just that symbol. 23:54:21 It's useful in cases just like the one you have. 23:54:33 Let me try a quick example. 23:56:42 elly: http://tmp.barzilay.org/x 23:57:05 hrm 23:57:09 I think I see what you did here 23:57:12 When the type checker reaches the `else' part of the `cond', it knows that x must be a number. 23:57:29 does the optimizer actually make use of that? 23:57:41 (e.g., will it infer away the checks for number->string?) 23:57:51 So in places where in popular static languages you declare some `Option Foo' type, in TR you can just use (U #f Foo) 23:58:05 TR does have Option though 23:58:23 Yes -- and IIRC (Option Foo) is defined as (U #f Foo)... 23:58:42 I don't think that there's an unsafe version of `number->string', but in cases that there is an unsafe version, it will use it. 23:59:15 For example, if the type was (U ... Integer), and you'd have some (+ x 1) in the end, it would use the unsafe `+' version that assumes an integer input. 23:59:45 In any case, to continue the above -- in cases where you have some constant constructors in Haskell, in TR you'd just use symbols, and things work out fine.