00:00:15 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-200.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:41 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:05 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 00:12:59 RyanRN [~Adium@72.93.251.171] has joined #scheme 00:26:10 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-231.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 00:31:59 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:19 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:23 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:34 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #scheme 00:45:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:13 -!- empt [~empt@221.181.131.63] has left #scheme 00:49:32 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 00:51:15 -!- xvilka [~xvilka@109.170.106.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:51:29 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:52:08 (In gambit if nonportable) is there some sort of reader-macro or otherwise that's the equivalent of CL's #. ? 00:52:35 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:52:41 -!- copumpkin is now known as MostInterestingM 00:53:05 -!- MostInterestingM is now known as copumpkin 01:03:51 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:04:58 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.165.196] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 01:08:47 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:24:00 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:02 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 01:34:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:47 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:58 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:52:01 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 01:57:51 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:08 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:01:16 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:07:02 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:07:45 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:40 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:00 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 02:42:50 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:43:24 -!- qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@98.124.60.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:15 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:33 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:59:51 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:00:37 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:01:23 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:08:57 qhe [~qhe2@192.55.55.41] has joined #scheme 03:25:51 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 03:37:49 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:30 timj [~timj@e176197179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:55:51 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176199028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:54 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:26 sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 04:05:26 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 04:05:26 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 04:11:37 -!- qhe [~qhe2@192.55.55.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:15:27 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.159.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:19:14 qhe [~qhe2@192.55.55.41] has joined #scheme 04:20:23 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:19 bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:58:24 jcowan: do you think you can write up most of your proposals within the next couple of weeks? 04:59:19 It took rather longer than that to write them up in the first place, so no, I doubt it. 05:02:42 you're fault for not voting r5rs down the line! :P 05:10:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 05:19:44 If I thought R5RS (or R6RS) satisfactory, I wouldn't have got involved in this process. 05:20:15 When are you scheduling ballot #3? 05:20:29 r5rs is too small, r6rs is too big, will your bed be just right? 05:20:35 I hope so, yes. 05:21:40 That's the small R7RS we are speaking of. The large R7RS will be much larger thant R6RS, but it will be basically a list of optional modules which implementations can provide or not. 05:34:56 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 05:42:48 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:09:59 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:10:35 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:32 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 06:20:35 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 06:20:35 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: need sleep] 06:31:04 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:14 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:00:11 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:00:22 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:26 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:09 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-231.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:16:59 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-36.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 07:28:16 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:34:20 -!- Caleb-- [~caleb@109.65.207.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:26 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-0-72.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:02:46 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 08:03:03 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:32 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 08:23:51 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:24:43 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 08:25:04 Is there a macroexpand in (gambit) scheme? 08:48:18 Modius: Did you check the documentation? 08:48:41 I was still under the likely mistaken impression that Gambit lacked hygienic macros. 08:48:51 s/was/am/ 08:55:19 choas [~lars@p5792CB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:00:04 qhe1 [~qhe2@nat/intel/x-ccvufilwyrhpzbgl] has joined #scheme 09:00:15 -!- qhe1 [~qhe2@nat/intel/x-ccvufilwyrhpzbgl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:36 -!- qhe [~qhe2@192.55.55.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:42 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:15 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:53 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 09:10:21 Riastradh: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2011-01/msg00136.html 09:15:51 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:57 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-105-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 09:24:14 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:28:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:28:54 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:30:01 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 09:31:55 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 10:01:09 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:10 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-105-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:13 femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-105-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:13:30 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 10:20:07 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:28:52 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 10:31:43 Ruinpeople [~nnscript@109.130.211.24] has joined #scheme 10:32:06 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-0-72.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 10:34:15 -!- zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:58 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-4d067795.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:38:10 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-d9bfd171.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 10:40:54 zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 10:45:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:57:03 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:55 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:50 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:50 -!- zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:13 zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 11:19:09 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:26 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:23:52 -!- choas [~lars@p5792CB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:24 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:35:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:36:28 I noticed that gambit scheme's interpreter won't let me redefine a macro. Is there some trick to this sort of thing in Scheme, undefining something already defined? 11:37:38 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:38:12 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 11:38:23 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:42:48 Gambit allows redefining a macro (define-macro). 11:44:15 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:23 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:32 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:45:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:47:00 Yeah, weird, it wasn't working then it was. Maybe I was doing something else wrong. . . 11:53:07 -!- RyanRN [~Adium@72.93.251.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:56:58 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 12:05:57 f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #scheme 12:32:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:48:14 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:48:30 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-138.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 12:48:35 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:36 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:52:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-36.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:28 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:55:32 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:56:53 tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 13:02:54 Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:12:40 -!- qsun_ [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:13:27 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #scheme 13:15:16 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #scheme 13:33:23 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 13:36:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 13:37:51 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:39:51 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:11 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:49 grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:42:51 -!- grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:51:11 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:53:24 -!- Ruinpeople [~nnscript@109.130.211.24] has quit [Changing host] 13:53:24 Ruinpeople [~nnscript@unaffiliated/ruinpeople] has joined #scheme 13:55:27 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:13:47 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:50 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:08 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:45:28 kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:49:35 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:01:04 -!- kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:32 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:45 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:37:42 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:38:02 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:11:14 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:12:47 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-105-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:39 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:32 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 16:22:14 Hmm... I'm a little confused by Mark Weaver's commentary. It seems to be mostly of the form, `For each operator X, there exists an application Y for which it is unfit, because Z.' 16:24:35 One shouldn't use TRUNCATE-REMAINDER to compute an index into a vector; that's what EUCLIDEAN-REMAINDER is for, and that's the application for which EUCLIDEAN/ matters instead of FLOOR/ or TRUNCATE/. 16:24:45 Also, TRUNCATE/ is not C's / and % -- C's / and % are only the intersection between TRUNCATE/, FLOOR/, and EUCLIDEAN/, which all agree for nonnegative n and positive d. 16:29:58 dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-108-48-38-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:29:58 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-108-48-38-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:29:58 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 16:37:10 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:37:35 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 16:39:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:12 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:45:11 C99 defines / and % to be TRUNCATE/ iirc 16:51:43 Hmm... I think you're right, although it doesn't specifically say anything about negative arguments. What it does say specifically is that the integer shift operators are undefined on negative arguments. 16:52:59 Where's that wingo character? 16:53:21 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:59 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:54:41 Apropos of shifting, last I checked GCC still generated bad i386/amd64 code for x << y. 17:01:49 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 17:05:29 Riastradh: oh? 17:08:28 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:25 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:15:46 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:26:01 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:22 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:36:26 elly, yep. In one object, define `unsigned shift (unsigned x, unsigned y) { return (x << y); }'; in another, call it, say with shift (1, 32), or on a 64-bit system shift (1, 64). 17:36:34 You should get back 0, but I get back 1. 17:37:20 hrm? 17:37:28 why should you get back 0? 17:37:44 (x86 hardware masks the shift to 5 bits, and x86-64 to 6 bits, respectively) 17:38:45 You should get back zero because x * 2^y = 1 * 2^32 is congruent to 0 modulo 2^32. 17:39:07 (That's the problem: GCC doesn't account for that in the code it generates.) 17:39:11 I was hoping for a more authoritative definition of 'should' 17:39:18 like "the C standard says you should" 17:39:23 OK, here's what C99 says: 17:39:56 `The result of E1 << E2 is E1 left-shifted E2 bit positions.... If E1 has an unsigned type, the value of the result is E1 x 2^E2, reduced modulo one more than the maximum value representable in the result type.' 17:40:36 (Section 6.5.7 `Bitwise shift operators', paragraph 4, page 85.) 17:40:39 sure 17:40:44 file a bug, I guess? 17:40:51 I can kind of see why they generate incorrect code there 17:41:20 people who shift by the machine word width should probably die in a fire, and it'd add slowness to a lot of code because it'd need a conditional branch 17:42:20 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:46 choas [~lars@p5792CB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:28 *Riastradh* shrugs 17:44:30 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 17:44:45 maybe there could be -mcorrect-shifts or something :P 17:44:47 I dunno 17:45:15 It probably wouldn't adversely affect the performance of much code that anyone cares about: one doesn't often shift by statically unknown amounts. But I don't care enough at the moment to find out how to submit a GCC bug. 17:45:43 the canonical way is to find an exploitable security hole in a system daemon caused by this behavior 17:45:49 and then have someone else file a gcc bug 17:45:56 Ha. Good idea. 17:46:18 this is also widely held to be less effort than navigating the gcc bug tracker 17:46:30 Yeah...that's what I guessed. 17:46:44 Interestingly, Java defers to the common implementation in hardware. 17:47:03 i.e., the shift amount is guaranteed to be masked. 17:47:12 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:32 (I actually noticed this bug in GCC only because I noticed the bug in MIT Scheme, which no longer has the bug, although it really matters even less in MIT Scheme because you shouldn't use that primitive anyway unless you really know what you're doing.) 17:48:04 cky: "shift amount guaranteed to be masked" is probably a sensible thing for a standard to do 17:48:16 cky: no conditional branch, and it's just a single register op on non-masking arches 17:48:22 Indeed. *nods* 17:48:36 Riastradh: Right above your quote, paragraph 3, it says: `If the value of the right operand is negative or is greater than or equal to the width of the promoted left operand, the behavior is undened.' 17:49:51 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:13 /whois sloyd 17:50:28 Yeah, who is this `sloyd' character anyway, questioning me? 17:50:30 sloyd: interesting, your irc client sends ligatures for fi ;) 17:50:47 probably copied from the pdf 17:51:42 sloyd, hmm, you're right: I overlooked that. 17:55:49 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:21 -!- Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:34 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:24 Still, masking is pretty silly. 17:58:27 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 17:58:41 why? 17:59:01 Masking would be sensible if shifting any one bits beyond the representible width were undefined too. 17:59:31 they fall off the end of the word 17:59:47 Right. So if I shift by 32, why don't all the bits fall off the end? 17:59:55 I mean, the reason for the masking is that the shifter only has some many lines for how far to shift by, right 18:00:04 If I shift by 461512, why don't all the bits fall off the end? 18:00:17 er, only has so many 18:00:52 and 'enough to represent the machine word width' is a convenient value for 'so many' 18:01:48 The only reason I can fathom for masking is that it turned an implementation bug from 1977 on the part of Intel into a feature. 18:02:02 what alternative are you proposing? 18:02:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:02:09 Don't mask 18:02:10 ! 18:02:13 Riastradh: IIRC, before the 486 or thereabouts, masking was not actually done. 18:02:19 and do what with the bits that don't fit into the shift width...? 18:02:26 Drop them. 18:02:32 er 18:02:55 if I say "shift by 127", what do you want to do to the 0x40 bit 18:03:13 the lower six bits can be fed to the shifter as its width 18:03:30 elly: I think what Riastradh means is, if anything other than the bottom 6 bits is set, return 0. 18:03:38 (or -1, for signed right shift.) 18:04:09 that requires a test and conditional branch when shifting 18:04:23 as opposed to LOOK A BARREL SHIFTER 18:04:32 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:04:32 Hehehehehe. :-) 18:05:25 masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:08:16 It requires a test and conditional if you're generating code for an architecture whose shift instruction masks, yes. 18:09:29 ah, after looking for an hour for a reasonable wireless presenter, i find out that it is *not* shipped to europe, and costs twice the US price if bought from a reseller :( 18:09:49 ecraven: This is where you get a US friend to ship it to you. 18:09:57 ecraven: This channel does not have a shortage of US users. 18:10:15 Riastradh: no, it requires a test and conditional in hardware either way 18:10:30 Riastradh: I'm talking about hardware implementation, not compiler codegen 18:11:32 Riastradh: elly's point, as I understand it, is that there are only two ways to go, in hardware: do the test and branch, or really shift 127 bits (in your example). The latter is probably a bad idea. 18:11:45 (or mask) 18:11:49 that is approach 3 18:11:51 Indeed. 18:15:06 alinrus [~alinrus@188.24.43.221] has joined #scheme 18:15:30 OK, but is there any real cost to the test? It's not as though the processor would have to flush any predicted instruction cache. 18:15:47 tests are fine, conditionals are not 18:17:41 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:25:01 -!- alinrus [~alinrus@188.24.43.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:15 Why wouldn't it suffice to wire the barrel shifter and a zero up to a mux which makes a choice depending on the ior of the upper twenty-six or twenty-seven bits of the shift count? 18:29:33 I dunno 18:29:43 maybe that is how it is really done on non-masking arches 18:30:23 The barrel shifter is already a big pile of muxes, so obviously some kind of conditional is not expensive. 18:30:53 we have reached the edge of my EE knowledge, so I can't really say 18:31:48 The only other hardware manuals I have handy are for the SPARC, which, it turns out, also masks. 18:32:26 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:34 pattern_ [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:32:52 -!- pattern_ is now known as pattern 18:40:53 -!- pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:53 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #scheme 18:42:19 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:44:43 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:52:33 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:56:34 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:09:19 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 19:11:13 rudybot: (string-split-fields "[áàãâéêíóõôúüÁÀÃÂÉÊÍÓÕÔÚÜçÇabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\\-ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]+" "\nhello, world!") 19:11:13 rien: Some Germans just want to watch the world burn... 19:11:23 incubot: (string-split-fields "[áàãâéêíóõôúüÁÀÃÂÉÊÍÓÕÔÚÜçÇabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\\-ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]+" "\nhello, world!") 19:11:23 Error: unbound variable: string-split-fields 19:12:10 rudybot: init r5rs 19:12:10 rien: your r5rs sandbox is ready 19:12:14 rudybot: (string-split-fields "[áàãâéêíóõôúüÁÀÃÂÉÊÍÓÕÔÚÜçÇabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\\-ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]+" "\nhello, world!") 19:12:14 rien: (string-split-fields "[áàãâéêíóõôúüÁÀÃÂÉÊÍÓÕÔÚÜçÇabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\\-ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]+" "\nhello, world!") 19:12:38 rudybot: (string-split "hello world" " ") 19:12:39 rien: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: string-split in module: 'program 19:12:51 incubot: (string-split "hello world" " ") 19:12:51 (hello world) 19:13:17 incubot: (string-split-fields "[abc]+" "abcdefabcdef") 19:13:17 Error: unbound variable: string-split-fields 19:15:17 incubot: (printf "test~%a~%") 19:15:18 # 19:15:38 incubot: (printf "test") 19:15:38 test# 19:18:01 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:27 incubot: (printf "test~%") 19:19:27 # 19:19:41 where does test go d: 19:22:29 incubot: "test" 19:22:33 |test 19:22:48 incubot: "te\nst" 19:23:31 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:01 Surjikal [~Nick@CPE002401ce6288-CM0019474d1aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:32:43 Hey guys, is there a way to raise an exception in r5rs scheme? 19:36:10 Surjikal: R5RS does not have the concept of exceptions, but SRFI 34 has conditions. 19:36:34 Well, exceptions, too. :-) 19:36:53 Ok, great, thanks! 19:37:44 Is there a website that has the documentation of the r5rs spec? 19:38:35 19:39:02 Awesome, thank you. 19:45:40 -!- Surjikal [~Nick@CPE002401ce6288-CM0019474d1aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:28 -!- offby1 is now known as fqs 19:50:41 incubot: (span odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) 19:50:41 (1 1) 19:50:49 incubot: (break odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) 19:50:49 () 19:50:58 -!- fqs is now known as Guest52342 19:51:14 incubot: (span! odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) 19:51:14 (1 1) 19:51:20 this is so strange 19:51:38 the result should be ((1 1) (2 2 3 3 4 4)) 19:51:50 It looks like incubot shows only the first value of multivalue returns 19:51:59 oh it's a multivalue return! 19:52:02 aye 19:52:04 so I have to use receive, gotcha 19:52:28 Yay for multivalue returns. :-P 19:52:29 Someone ought to fix that in incubot 19:52:41 multivalue isn't needed here 19:52:48 You remember the time I mentioned about how it'd be neat for Scheme's map to support multivalue returns? 19:52:53 it should return ((1 1) (2 2 3 3 4 4)) like I said 19:52:55 Well, I just learnt that GolfScript supports it. 19:53:11 rien: Then use (call-with-values (lambda () ...) list) 19:53:13 rien: No, it shouldn't. Semantically it should return two values, not one list value 19:53:38 MV is really useful for the times I've used it. 19:53:40 it should use a list as the container for those values, I think, like haskell does. 19:53:43 It returns the span of matching values, and the rest 19:53:50 it facilitates compositionality 19:53:52 rien: Why? Because Haskell does that? 19:54:09 rien: I call bull. MV facilitates compositionality. 19:54:09 because it makes it easier to use it as a building block 19:54:16 -!- Guest52342 is now known as offby1 19:54:35 You can use call-with-values and call a procedure expecting two values 19:54:43 Exactly. 19:54:45 That way it composes better when using MV 19:54:50 sjamaan++ 19:54:51 You can argue it either way 19:55:13 But because the language supports multiple values, it's consistent and integrates better if it returns multiple values 19:55:19 incubot: (call-with-values (lambda (a b) (cons a b)) (span odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4))) 19:55:20 Error: (call-with-values) bad argument type: (1 1) 19:55:30 Suppose I wrote (compose frob map). How many arguments will be given to FROB? 19:55:45 incubot: (call-with-values (lambda () (span odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) cons) 19:55:45 Error: unterminated list 19:55:47 dzhus [~sphinx@95-28-98-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:55:47 incubot: (call-with-values (lambda () (span odd? '(1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4))) list) 19:55:48 ((1 1) (2 2 3 3 4 4)) 19:55:53 incubot: (call-with-values (lambda () (span odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4))) cons) 19:55:53 ((1 1) 2 2 3 3 4 4) 19:56:12 Riastradh can type better than I can. :-P 19:56:23 Riastradh: thanks, now I will try and understand why that works :) 19:58:38 it doesn't work on my csi 19:58:53 oh hold on 19:58:55 rien: It should, unless you mistyped. 19:59:21 incubot: (call-with-values (cut span odd? '(1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) list) 19:59:21 Error: unbound variable: cut 19:59:29 incubot: (use srfi-26) 19:59:30 Error: unbound variable: srfi-26 19:59:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:59:33 O_o 20:00:02 incubot: (require 'srfi-26) 20:00:03 Error: (require) can not load extension: srfi-26 20:00:41 incubot: (define (proper-span pred lst) (call-with-values (lambda () (span pred lst)) list)) (proper-span odd? (list 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)) ; :P 20:00:42 ((1 1) (2 2 3 3 4 4)) 20:00:51 now I can go on and code "group" :) 20:05:39 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:07:00 incubot: (values 1 2 3) 20:07:01 1 20:07:31 incubot: (expand '(define (add1 x) (+ x 1))) 20:07:31 Error: unbound variable: expand 20:09:35 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 20:10:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:03 zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 20:18:08 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 20:18:12 evening, schemers 20:18:33 heya wingo 20:28:04 Boo! 20:28:11 erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has joined #scheme 20:30:54 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:31 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.58.112.85] has joined #scheme 20:33:32 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.58.112.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:38 Caleb-- [~caleb@109.65.207.153] has joined #scheme 20:43:14 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:44:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:49:40 -!- erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 20:51:03 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:10:07 -!- f8l is now known as w8l 21:17:04 mathk [~mathk@83.159.105.28] has joined #scheme 21:36:44 -!- mathk [~mathk@83.159.105.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:46 -!- w8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:38:35 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:48 -!- choas [~lars@p5792CB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:46:27 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 21:46:36 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 21:54:28 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-28-98-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: tanks are rolling] 22:04:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:05 ehwat [ehwat@CPE002401ce6288-CM0019474d1aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:15:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:47 Hello, can you define modules and 'import' them in scheme (r5rs)? 22:20:05 nope 22:20:32 visviva [47b6f963@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.182.249.99] has joined #scheme 22:20:40 use r6rs, or check your implementation. 22:24:24 ahh ok, thanks 22:26:20 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:27:27 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:40 Phao [phao@189.107.191.175] has joined #scheme 22:27:48 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.191.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:10 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:11 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:36:20 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:09 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:41 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:32 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:32 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:29 ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has joined #scheme 22:59:05 mathk [~mathk@194.177.61.45] has joined #scheme 23:18:08 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-138.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:40 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:19 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 23:46:49 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-86.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 23:48:33 kuribas [~user@dD5763497.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme