00:03:19 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:06:03 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has joined #scheme 00:06:06 erjiang_ [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has joined #scheme 00:06:06 -!- erjiang_ [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:05 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 00:08:37 bgs100 [~ian@h121.51.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #scheme 00:08:37 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h121.51.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:08:37 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:08:39 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:48 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has joined #scheme 00:09:03 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09:18 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has joined #scheme 00:09:51 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:18 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:10:18 parolang [~kevin@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:20 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:15:52 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-031.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 00:19:07 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:49 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 00:23:59 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 00:24:30 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe7d:2a56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:02 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43:41 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:45:32 does anybody know how I could do something like (in pseudo scheme) ... (replace '(foo rest-of-list) 'foo 'bar) => '(bar rest-of-list) ? inside a function though, not at top level 00:46:30 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:49:17 what about doing a map? 00:54:15 rudybot: (define (replace lst element replacement) (map (lambda (e) (if (equal? e element) replacement e)) lst)) 00:54:15 rapacity: your sandbox is ready 00:54:15 rapacity: Done. 00:54:29 rudybot: (replace '(foo rest-of-list) 'foo 'bar) 00:54:29 rapacity: ; Value: (bar rest-of-list) 00:54:54 lewis1711: is that what you want? 00:55:17 ohhh 00:55:28 yes, that will act as a nice base, ty rapacity 00:59:05 lewis1711: as long as you put the operator in first position in a list with the arguments, you are not writing pseudo scheme, but full fleshed scheme! 00:59:15 (define (a-function) (replace '(foo rest-of-list) 'foo 'bar)) 00:59:20 that's all there is to it. 01:02:29 -!- gozoner [~ebg@64.134.237.180] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:02:41 pjb: haha, true. it was pseudo scheme in the sence i had no defined replace:) 01:02:48 *not 01:02:54 *other spelling/grammar errors 01:03:18 Not having defined a function yet is what's called 'programming'. Just do programming! You're here for that. 01:03:30 gozoner [~ebg@64.134.237.180] has joined #scheme 01:10:33 pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has joined #scheme 01:11:34 phao [~phao@189.107.180.103] has joined #scheme 01:12:18 uh...yeah that's what I am doing :/ 01:13:03 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:26 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:17:08 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:02 groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:18:02 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 01:18:02 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 01:22:55 bleharg [~user@70.49.244.12] has joined #scheme 01:23:23 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:26:27 -!- bleharg [~user@70.49.244.12] has left #scheme 01:28:05 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:28:47 lewis1711: have a look at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a827235ce7466a92 01:30:42 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #scheme 01:35:52 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 01:35:57 -!- parolang [~kevin@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Quit: Enough IRC for now.] 01:36:05 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:36:17 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 01:37:22 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:38:53 -!- pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:44:56 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:45:17 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 01:49:22 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 01:51:16 Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:07 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:05:10 -!- tonyg [~tonyg@navarone.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:18 tonyg [~tonyg@navarone.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 02:06:23 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 02:08:39 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:43 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:05 -!- zanes is now known as zane-afk 02:18:01 rasterba_ [~rasterbar@50.8.107.226] has joined #scheme 02:20:34 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:23:58 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:19 timj [~timj@e176193099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:31:42 jcowan [~John@74.68.112.189] has joined #scheme 02:33:55 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: merp] 02:39:25 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-tersojzjfyuifpsg] has joined #scheme 02:45:46 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:45:52 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.180.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:36 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:47:49 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-pockpaeanukpxrey] has joined #scheme 02:47:49 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-pockpaeanukpxrey] has quit [Changing host] 02:47:49 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 02:48:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/119127 tested out (monster 'get-hp), and I get "Operator is not a PROCEDURE (this 'hp)" - any idea of the issue here? 02:50:29 I can't tell why this would not be in scope 02:51:07 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:51:57 (it seems gambit has a debugger. perhaps it could be useful...) 02:52:18 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:01 drdo` [~user@bl5-23-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 02:58:09 pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has joined #scheme 03:00:05 -!- drdo [~user@bl9-129-47.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:38 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 03:01:33 -!- gozoner [~ebg@64.134.237.180] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:03:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:03:28 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:56 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:03:56 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:03:56 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 03:05:22 -!- pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:17:10 chylli [~lchangyin@119.181.66.75] has joined #scheme 03:17:24 -!- chylli [~lchangyin@119.181.66.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:53 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-tersojzjfyuifpsg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:10 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:37:43 -!- Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:34 eglenn [~eglenn@209-6-93-9.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:40:38 has anyone out there read _Land of Lisp_? 03:44:26 mwolfe [~michael@64.134.222.157] has joined #scheme 03:44:58 is that mike wolfe? 03:48:45 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Let FreeBSD handle all the signals... I just clicked on the 'X' button] 03:50:25 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-0-72.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:51:24 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:44 timj_ [~timj@e176193129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:52:49 -!- eglenn [~eglenn@209-6-93-9.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 03:53:35 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:55:30 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:26 -!- timj [~timj@e176193099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:00 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:56 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-0-72.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:39:24 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:44 lewis1711: the error is expected 04:40:22 You have ('this 'hp) 04:40:48 And I doubt that "'this" is a procedure. 04:42:11 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:31 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:52 And the function "this" is defined inside the code of "object" 04:46:07 You'll have to find another way to do it I'm afraid. 04:46:09 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:52:09 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:42 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-imrvjtlmxnisgtnq] has joined #scheme 05:08:11 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 05:20:10 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:41 -!- mwolfe [~michael@64.134.222.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:09 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:35:39 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 05:41:18 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:42:15 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:45:03 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-imrvjtlmxnisgtnq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:51 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-lkoeuhiuoljinmfi] has joined #scheme 05:52:18 -!- rasterba_ [~rasterbar@50.8.107.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:28 HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:54:09 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 05:54:35 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 05:54:37 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:58:43 rasterbar [~rasterbar@50.8.107.122] has joined #scheme 05:58:44 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@50.8.107.122] has quit [Changing host] 05:58:44 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 06:01:55 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:03:09 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:50 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 06:05:22 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:34 -!- jcowan [~John@74.68.112.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:14:14 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:21:16 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-lkoeuhiuoljinmfi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:38 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:19 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:50:29 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:13 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-144.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:58:05 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-owjbegpyjhbqzlnz] has joined #scheme 07:08:46 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:35 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:29:06 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:29:10 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:29:55 -!- drdo` [~user@bl5-23-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:36:00 I'm kind of delighted I made my first scheme program tonight. A very trivial thing but the first thing I would consider a program, in the first programming language I've learned. 07:43:29 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:22 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:53:47 cool 08:09:45 congratulations! 08:10:07 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 08:14:57 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:15:42 trying to figure out how to come up with a poor mans partition in r5rs. using map with a predicate lambda.. 08:16:03 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:26 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:17:28 I don't see how you can do such a thing with map 08:19:04 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:18 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:20:06 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:19 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:22:17 lewis1711: you can write a crappy one with foldl though 08:22:45 rapacity: am thinking it might better to dodge it altogether. will see how it pans out.. 08:23:04 oh well 08:23:06 rudybot: 08:23:08 rudybot: (define (pp pred? lst) (define x (foldl (lambda (e a) (if (pred? e) (cons (cons e (car a)) (cdr a)) (cons (car a) (cons e (cdr a))))) (cons null null) lst)) (values (car x) (cdr x))) 08:23:09 rapacity: Done. 08:23:19 rudybot: (pp even? (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)) 08:23:19 rapacity: ; Value: (6 4 2) 08:23:20 rapacity: ; Value#2: (7 5 3 1) 08:23:32 hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has joined #scheme 08:23:37 -!- hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:37 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:24:48 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:08 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:25:21 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:25:38 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:54 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:39:13 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-owjbegpyjhbqzlnz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:23 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:56 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:52:16 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:30 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:46 ...I just had a brain wave 09:14:06 can you look at an individual scheme file as *one* list, just with implicit parens? 09:15:37 and then each top level statement could be an element 09:16:24 that's how the reader does it 09:17:58 ok. mind. blown. this gives me so many ideas 09:20:26 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20:50 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:06 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 09:25:15 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:32 timj [~timj@e176198240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 09:26:30 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 09:30:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:33:36 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:13 Sometimes when Im reading the references or guides im a bit overwhelmed by the jargon and special nomenclature used by Scheme or computer scientists. 09:38:40 When someone says "top level statement" what do they mean? 09:40:22 em: top level as in. not embedded in another statement 09:40:38 so if you open up a file and type (define lol rofl), you've made a top-level statement 09:41:11 if you then write (define (lmao roflmao) (define foo bar)), then lmao is top level but foo is not 09:41:40 (I think ;)) 09:42:41 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 09:43:10 top level is not restricted to scheme or lisp 09:43:52 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 09:43:54 Okay that's an easy to understand concept then. Thanks. 09:46:03 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 09:46:55 What is the most likely explanation for why in many programming channels the questions, answers, and conversations are usually about the right syntax for doing some concrete thing, but in lisp and scheme channels the questions, answers, and conversations seem highly theoretical and profound? 09:47:45 well, haven't used CL, but lisp syntax is pretty easy surely. (proc arg_1 ... arg_n). there you go 09:48:35 I don't really understand what is tail call optimization. 09:49:31 i know that it has something to do with keeping space resources constant rather than growing proportionately with the number of steps. 09:49:32 it really just means it is safe to call a function to compute the return value of another function 09:50:18 as I understand, it means it doesn't allocate a huge list at runtime 09:50:50 *lewis1711* forgets which is the heap and which is the stack 09:50:57 normally there is a stack holding the function arguments, information about parent frames etc 09:51:22 each time a function is called, a call frame is put to the stack, and popped when the function returns 09:52:01 huh, no shit. so that's how it works. 09:52:07 thus if you call a function to compute the return value of another function, the call frame of the original function will not be popped before the other one finishes 09:52:57 and therefore things like (define (foo x) (if (= x 0) 'done (foo (- x 1)))) take linear space 09:53:11 em: TCO means your procedure call can be done w/o having to allocate more space on the stack 09:53:18 with tail call optimization (not being stupid with a stack) it takes constant space 09:53:58 em: if you want a good introduction into this all read SICP 09:54:24 it takes linear space because, sort of, every function needs to finish up before it works backward to the original? 09:54:43 em, exactly 09:55:01 i started reading SICP but I haven't finished and I haven't gotten to any in depth part about TCO. Just a blurb about it at some point. 09:55:15 the useless call frame in the stack is just waiting for the return value, and only passes it downwards to it's parent 09:55:28 I gave up SICP and am reading purely functional data structures. much more succinct :D 09:55:52 (not the same subject material at all, I know, but i like to read compsci stuff) 09:56:52 if you use CPS, TCO turns into a simple optimization of passing the original continuation to be to continuation of the last call, instead of (lambda (res) (my-continuation res)) 09:57:04 I can clearly see how recursive processes in general could take 'linear space'. And I can also see how iterative processes can be done in 'constant space'. But it's not so clear how TCO forces procedures that are compositions of recursive procedures to be iterative. 09:57:34 em: one way is converting the code into CPS 09:57:35 em, they are iterative only if they make one recursive call 09:57:37 chicken does this 09:57:39 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:58:04 you mean one recursive call 'per loop' right? 09:58:22 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:58:24 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:58:36 em, right. one recursive call per loop at the call 09:58:44 last call, that is 09:59:05 don't say last call at this hour, you'll have everyone coming to the bar. 09:59:28 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:59:34 would be a great name for a lisp roundup :) 09:59:39 (oh by the way it's 4:59 where I am. How weird) 09:59:45 yeah hehe 10:00:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:00:30 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:29 A continuation is like the place within an algorithm where the "computer's mind" is at? 10:02:54 A continuation is the procedure that gets called with the result of the currently evaluated one 10:03:22 "what to do next with the result" 10:03:35 (+ 1 (* 2 3)) 10:03:58 for (* 2 3) the continuation is the + procedure 10:04:02 Oh so a continuation is actually some defined procedure, but it is always changing, and it is defined as the procedure that will be invoked once the current one finishes? 10:04:29 you can see it that way yes 10:04:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:04:45 call-with-current-continuation gives you an explicit name for this 10:05:02 so you can store it away, use it later or use it to jump out of deeply nested code 10:05:05 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:05:06 From what I was reading in reference manuals I was visualising 'continuation' as like the leading edge of the logical fluid that flows through the programs pipes or something. 10:05:23 I don't understand this image 10:05:29 this new definition is a lot more useful! 10:05:59 with CPS this continuation comes easily as you already have it in your code flow 10:06:09 well everything i saw written about it made it seem like it was talking about the 'flow' of the program as it evolves. Like the pin point of where it's at in its flow. 10:06:13 (normal procedure calls are more expensive this way) 10:06:29 em: well it is the program flow 10:06:32 What does CPS stand for? 10:06:43 continuation passing style 10:07:20 you can see how CS people use jargon in a way that's very natural to them. 10:09:04 what is the difference between continuation passing style and 'normal procedure calls'? I take it that Scheme is quintessentially a Continuation Passing Style, and other languages use a normal procedure call style? 10:10:06 CPS is really just a subset of normal Scheme, which happens to be easy to implement without a stack 10:10:26 because there are no function calls that return, only jumps to other functions 10:10:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:10:41 It kind of makes sense to me. 10:10:42 and the nice thing is that all programs can be converted to this form fairly easily 10:11:56 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:12:46 It's sort of like saying, "all you are ever going to 'know' is what's happening right now. But that's all you have to know, since by doing what you know right now, it will turn into what you have to know later. 10:15:17 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 10:15:43 In some ways a continuation is like a place where you could freeze the computer, and resume it right there, and as far as the program was concerned, it would never know the difference. It's like, all the information you need to finish the program exists at the continuation at that moment. 10:15:53 in that respect it does resemble the idea of iteration to me. 10:16:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:43 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:23 masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:31:30 yup, it is a function that knows what to do when something has finished doing whatever it was doing 10:31:52 -!- zane-afk [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:33:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:34:08 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:37:29 rudybot: (car (partition number? '(1 2 two three))) 10:37:30 lewis1711: your sandbox is ready 10:37:30 lewis1711: error: context expected 1 value, received 2 values: (1 2) (two three) 10:38:15 rudybot: (car (list (partition number? '(1 2 two three)))) 10:38:15 lewis1711: error: context expected 1 value, received 2 values: (1 2) (two three) 10:38:42 rudybot: (car (cons (partition number? '(1 2 two three)))) 10:38:42 lewis1711: error: context expected 1 value, received 2 values: (1 2) (two three) 10:38:53 well 10:40:11 zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 10:41:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:54 how do I use the second argument of a partition? :/ 10:44:18 second return value ? 10:44:49 rudybot: (define-values (a b) (partition number? '(1 2 two three))) 10:44:49 rapacity: Done. 10:44:58 rudybot: (car a) 10:44:58 rapacity: ; Value: 1 10:45:06 rudybot: (var b) 10:45:06 rapacity: error: reference to undefined identifier: var 10:45:11 rudybot: (car b) 10:45:11 rapacity: ; Value: two 10:45:43 oh 10:45:51 thanks rapacity 10:45:58 you can use let-values or define-values or something else :p 10:46:00 np 10:49:38 rapacity: is define-values in an SRFI or in r6 or racket or something? 10:52:32 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:52:42 hmm let-values is in r6rs 10:52:57 nm chicken seems to have them somewhere:) 10:53:36 trying out all the implementations :p? 10:54:54 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:57:10 rapacity: what was I on last time? I found gambit hard to use without srfi-1 10:59:00 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:23 plt, gambit, chicken d: 10:59:52 ah well, gtg :< 11:00:41 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:30 hey i'm allowed to implementation hop, i'm a noob and it's only been 3;) 11:05:40 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:05 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:06:05 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:06:05 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 11:13:13 lewis1711: I think you should try Racket. It's what I have been using. I think it's probably pretty fantastic. 11:13:46 em: yeah I have. it is very nice. I think one of the C implementations might work out better though 11:14:20 why should scheme implementations be so different? How much intersection is there? 11:16:03 -!- zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:22 zanes [~zane@wall.tripitinc.com] has joined #scheme 11:16:43 em: a fair bit. chicken and gambit compile to C, which makes them very interesting for me 11:18:52 lewis1711: the counterpart of values is receive in chicken, which is syntactic sugar for call-with-values 11:23:21 aha 11:24:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:25:20 ahaa,,,, association lists *don't* have to be improper pairs! 11:25:24 *lewis1711* levels up in scheme 11:26:21 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:26:42 *the elements of a 11:36:02 f8l [~f8l@87-205-27-57.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #scheme 11:38:12 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:27 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:42 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #scheme 11:46:49 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 11:52:23 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:27 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:07 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:00:31 minion: memo for lewis1711: a-list are lists of pairs. It may happen that a value is a list, and even a list of one element, but the pairs of the a-list don't belong to the value lists. If you implement a copy-alist function, you will only copy the pairs of the a-list, not the pairs of the values! 12:00:31 Remembered. I'll tell lewis1711 when he/she/it next speaks. 12:01:46 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:11 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 12:11:13 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 12:12:50 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:06 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:13:25 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:20 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 12:16:06 multiple return values are a terrible idea 12:16:06 lewis1711, memo from pjb`: a-list are lists of pairs. It may happen that a value is a list, and even a list of one element, but the pairs of the a-list don't belong to the value lists. If you implement a copy-alist function, you will only copy the pairs of the a-list, not the pairs of the values! 12:18:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:21:09 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:56 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 12:32:17 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:32:17 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:32:18 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:34:34 phao [~phao@189.107.151.26] has joined #scheme 12:39:59 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 12:42:36 Good morning everyone, or good whenever someone, 12:43:09 Blkt [~user@93-33-140-157.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 12:43:19 I'm trying to search for a pattern in an s-expr. I've been using Alex Shinn's matchable code, but can't quite figure out how to express what I need to search for: 12:43:21 http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/chicken-users/2011-01/msg00173.html 12:43:50 Can anyone here talk to me a bit about searching/pattern matching in Scheme, and either how I might use match.scm or what I might use instead? 12:44:43 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 12:54:34 aisa: you never wrote a clause to match a key in the middle of the list. 12:54:42 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 12:54:49 (_ ... 'a: #t _ ...) 12:54:51 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.171.16.224] has joined #scheme 12:54:51 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.171.16.224] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:51 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 12:54:52 pjb: Indeed, I don't know how to do that. 12:55:00 hmmm, why the '_' before the last '...'? 12:55:06 oh, I missed the one in front too. 12:55:08 let me try. 12:55:08 The middle of th elist is when you have something before and something after. 12:55:36 AFAIK (I don't know much of scheme), ... is a kleene *. 12:55:49 It repeats the previous item. 12:56:20 I may be wrong, check the doc of the matcher. 12:56:20 pjb: thank you for that explanation, I've had a terrible time figuring out exactly how it was that '...' was working. 12:57:14 Ah, I get the error "multiple ellipse patterns not allowed at same level" 12:57:29 you're correct in this is what I *want* to express. 12:57:31 Then your pattern matcher may be too limited, perhaps. 12:57:40 Try another one. 12:57:57 perhaps so, yes. The libraries available for pattern matching are new to me. 12:58:03 Do you have a particular one in mind? 12:58:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:00 Not for scheme. I usually program in CL. But you will probably find a lot of pattern matchers libraries for scheme. 12:59:28 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 13:00:40 You may also try: (_ ... 'a: #t . _) 13:00:50 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-140-157.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:01:19 Notice that there's something wrong in any case with these patterns. 13:01:20 pjb: I tried that with some hope, but I get a macro expansion error. 13:01:23 oh? 13:01:27 tell me more. 13:01:40 once you start having keywords in the list, you must have one keyword, one value, one keyword, one value, etc. 13:02:01 _ ... may match an odd number of items. 13:02:25 ah, well said. That turns out to not be a problem here, because I can let later code choke on that. 13:02:35 So (foo b: a: a: 2) could be matched as a: a: instead of a: 2 13:03:00 it could be simplier to just parse the list yourself. 13:03:02 I've got output from one section of my compiling that I'm inspecting with another. 13:03:40 pjb: that is a reasonable conclusion given what I've tried so far. 13:03:54 Thank you for taking the time to seriously look at my problem, I really appreciate it. 13:04:37 You're welcome. 13:09:52 vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.26.146.253.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 13:11:33 mathk__ [~mathk@194.177.62.36] has joined #scheme 13:12:41 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 13:14:35 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:14:46 -!- mathk [~mathk@194.177.62.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:14:46 -!- mathk__ is now known as mathk 13:15:41 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:47 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:15 Iommi [~Iommi@239.Red-88-18-71.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:33:52 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.26.146.253.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:33:59 aisa: that sort of pattern is explicitly disabled because it would require backtracking (at least in the general case) 13:34:28 foof: is there a pattern matcher for scheme that will permit patterns that require backtracking? 13:34:52 the PLT pattern matcher is extensible (but not portable) 13:34:58 It wasn't clear to me why you wanted to avoid backtracking. 13:35:17 and actually, my policy on that is contradictory since I added tree patterns which can backtrack 13:36:33 aisa: the problem is it's pretty easy to write a (foo ... bar ...) pattern which is actually O(n^2), when the same effect can often be achieved with a O(n) pattern 13:37:28 bbl 13:41:47 (specifically when foo should match greedily then never backtrack) 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#scheme 19:28:15 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:26 -!- noonian [~noonian@c-24-20-15-118.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:36:01 Phao [phao@189.107.162.54] has joined #scheme 19:44:31 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-132-79.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 19:45:24 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.162.54] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 19:45:41 Phao [phao@189.107.162.54] has joined #scheme 19:49:57 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:51:31 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 19:53:22 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 19:54:27 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 19:56:43 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:02:45 femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:02:59 Is it possible to write a SYNTAX-RULES macro that has different expansions for numbers and symbols in an expression? (so (macro 4) expands differently than (macro 'foo)) 20:05:38 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:10 I don't think it's possible with syntax-rules 20:06:47 doesnt syntax-rules have fenders? 20:07:13 hm, i guess not 20:07:22 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:07:37 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:48 oh 20:08:02 if it's macro 'foo 20:08:12 then that's (quote foo) 20:08:22 you can probably match that 20:08:40 but if it was (macro foo) vs (macro 4) I don't think it's possible 20:11:55 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:41 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Kaspersky-Anti-Virus-Source-Code-Leaked-Online-181297.shtml 20:14:41 http://tinyurl.com/657uplz 20:15:12 d:, anyone on here use windows? 20:16:13 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 20:17:44 me 20:18:35 oh :< 20:18:55 phao_ [phao@189.107.159.147] has joined #scheme 20:19:01 -!- phao_ [phao@189.107.159.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:42 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:34 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.162.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:26:47 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-166-53.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:31 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:28:53 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-170-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:02 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:34:16 -!- Ruinpeople [~email@109.130.112.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:37:30 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-4dbecede.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:37:42 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-4dbec101.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:00 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:24 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:54:33 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:06:48 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:55 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:08:22 Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:08:56 -!- copumpkin is now known as SomeEnthusiast 21:09:43 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 21:11:10 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:54 masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:19:24 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:22:20 -!- Iommi [~Iommi@239.Red-88-18-71.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:53 vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.115.90.227] has joined #scheme 21:26:53 Iommi [~Iommi@239.Red-88-18-71.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:28:03 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:28:24 -!- SomeEnthusiast is now known as copumpkin 21:30:39 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:38:38 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 21:53:08 ehwat [ehwat@CPE002401ce6288-CM0019474d1aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:55:30 Hey guys, is there a way to expand lists so that they items would be parameters? Ex. In python, you can do: list = [1,2,3]; foo(*list)... which becomes foo(1, 2, 3) 21:55:39 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:55 I'm using the r5rs flavor 21:55:59 In Scheme, that's spelled (apply foo list). 21:56:11 Ah great, thanks! 21:58:20 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 22:05:52 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:05 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:39 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:10 wow, finally a decept PDF version of SICP: https://nolancaudill.com/files/sicp.pdf 22:19:21 Phao [phao@189.107.199.253] has joined #scheme 22:20:00 Thanks for that 22:22:56 amca [~amca@CPE-121-208-84-154.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:25:40 decent* 22:28:32 there's also this: http://www.neilvandyke.org/sicp-texi/ 22:29:32 and apparently someone converted that version into pdf as well: http://www.scribd.com/doc/15556326/Structure-and-Interpretation-of-Computer-Programs-SICP 22:29:32 http://tinyurl.com/qsrube 22:29:34 which looks great too 22:29:38 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 22:32:00 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:32:16 so you say your first link is the most decent? 22:38:15 -!- amca [~amca@CPE-121-208-84-154.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 22:39:59 the first link seems to be more of a direct copy of the HTML book, with the images as they are 22:40:44 in the second one, they redid the diagrams in ASCII instead of using the GIFs 22:40:50 both seem decent ;) 22:43:24 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-144.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:43:29 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:39 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:02 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:32 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe81:70af] has joined #scheme 22:49:20 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.199.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:51:00 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe81:70af] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:17 masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:53:49 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:53:56 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:54:25 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:15 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:16 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:58:15 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.253] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 22:59:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:59:32 trying to see if I can get snow working again. 23:00:16 Caleb--: cool 23:01:34 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.115.90.227] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:04:47 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 23:05:47 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-152.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:09:49 Phao [phao@189.107.187.88] has joined #scheme 23:11:31 Hey. I'm writing this code here -- http://pastie.org/pastes/1507491/text -- It's a set of date handling functions. There is this function adjust-date, which corrects a date by adding excesses in fields, like if a date has seconds=60, it'll have 1 more minute and 0 seconds. 23:11:58 That function is kinda BIG because it splits the job of adjusting each part of the date into a different function. But those functions look all similar. 23:12:38 But yet they differ in parts that, if I were to make a generic function, the could would uglier than it is. 23:12:57 any suggestion on how can I make that cleaner? 23:13:30 btw.. that let* right below the end of definition of adjust-date can be ignored -- this code is still being written 23:16:05 -!- Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:09 My first reaction is that you should specify what calendar system you're using, and you should be aware that POSIX time is an abominably stupid mistake. 23:16:52 Riastradh, what do you mean by calendar? 23:17:04 In particular, in the UTC system for naming particular durations of time, which essentially all civil time standards are based on, some minutes have sixty-one seconds. 23:17:35 Riastradh, do you know where I can find those info? I've only read superficial info on wikipedia 23:17:51 I was going to look for those details, but that you told me this 23:17:57 this may mean that those things are not just details 23:18:19 In UTC, at the end of the Gregorian year 2008, the names for the seconds went like this (written in ISO 8601 format): 2008-12-31T23:59:58Z, 2008-12-31T23:59:59Z, 2008-12-31T23:59:60Z, 2009-01-01T00:00:00Z, 2009-01-01T00:00:01Z. 23:18:50 On the last day of the Gregorian year 2008 in UTC, there were 86401 seconds -- the last minute had 61 seconds, not the usual 60 seconds. 23:20:52 hmm 23:21:01 it seems that everything in computers follows this UTC standard 23:21:59 Here's what the POSIX time values looked like, though: 1230767998, 1230767999, 1230768000, 1230768000, 1230768001. (Note the repetition of 1230768000.) 23:22:29 yeah 23:23:44 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:44 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:24:31 Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:25:22 Most computers internally just tick second by second, like TAI clocks (with the occasional adjustment of the clock's speed from NTP). Then POSIX operating systems deliberately screw up what is presented to user programs, as if the clock rewound by a second or stayed fixed for a second, during a leap second. UTC usually enters into it only when communicating dates to humans. 23:26:42 where do you learn that stuff? o.O 23:28:14 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:56 Here's a good small summary of some of the issues: . 23:29:06 -!- Couick [~quassel@AClermont-Ferrand-158-1-128-72.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:18 In particular, see . 23:30:59 I definitively have to do some research before continuing with my date module 23:31:02 but 23:31:05 about that function =) 23:31:37 what do you think ? Any ideas on how to write a generic, not ugly one that could be used to define all of the inner functions? 23:31:47 this is just a curiosity... I actually don't think it's much bad the way it is. 23:31:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 23:32:05 Well, you could follow what djb does in libtai. The routine caldate_norm takes a caldate (representing a day in the Gregorian calendar) and normalizes it by mapping its (possibly bogus) components naively to a modified Julian day number, and then finding the actual caldate representing that day. 23:35:08 libtai does this only for caldates, not caltimes (a caltime is a caldate together with a time of day written as hours, minutes, seconds), but the idea extends just as well to caltimes, by mapping the date to a modified Julian day number and the time of day to the number of seconds since the start of the day. 23:37:08 That's basically what you're already doing, but with the two steps (date/time -> mjd/seconds; mjd/seconds -> date/time) combined into one. 23:37:23 ...I mean: What you are doing is basically that, but you have combined the two steps into one. 23:38:36 I'm still trying to understand the "naively" part 23:39:09 but 23:39:12 the adjust-date function 23:39:16 tries to do stuff like this 23:39:32 I mean that you take the formula for computing a modified Julian day number mjd given a Gregorian year y, month m, and day d, under the constraints that 1 <= m <= 12, and 1 <= d <= days-in-month(m), and then apply it to y, m, and d even when those constraints don't hold. 23:39:41 given that a date has day 1412, make that date has the maximum day possible, limited by its month, and add (1412 - date-max) days to it. 23:39:47 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 23:40:38 the problem with this is that 23:40:47 you know too many names I have no clue what they mean 23:40:51 it's hard to understand all that 23:41:23 Wikipedia is helpful -- look up `Gregorian calendar', `Modified Julian day', `Leap second', `UTC', and `TAI'. 23:42:26 I have all those pages opened 23:42:36 but I'll read that one you sent me first 23:43:14 it's kinda hard to keep up with all the names, and those pages tend to have extremely complicated definitions for simple stuff like this we're talking about 23:43:21 but... back to the function =) 23:43:31 any clues? 23:43:33 In brief: TAI is a set of clocks that counts SI seconds and names them. UTC is a system for breaking those names into day, hour, minute, and second intervals (of uneven length, except for the second intervals). A leap second is a second with a funny name in UTC. MJD is a system for naming days. The Gregorian calendar is a system for naming years, months, and days of month. 23:44:31 what is naming a day, or year, or second, ... ? 23:44:54 So, suggestion: Break your procedure into two parts -- one that takes a Gregorian year, month, and day of month, and computes a modified Julian day number from that, even if the month number or day of month numbers are bogus; and another that takes a modified Julian day number and computes the correct Gregorian year, month, and day of month. 23:45:37 ok 23:45:43 that was my first idea for the function 23:45:47 have a base date 23:45:56 and get the number of days from that date 23:46:02 but the problem is that I'd have a base date. 23:46:13 Pick a reference time. I like the start UTC, which was in 1972. This reference time is called 1972-01-01T00:00:00Z in UTC, written in the ISO 8601 format. Right now, it is about 1296258369 + 63072000 seconds since then. 23:46:20 having a base date seems like a bad limit to the program. 23:46:34 Excuse me, 1296258369 - 63072000. 23:46:51 The whole point is avoiding the need of a reference time. 23:47:08 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:48:07 brb 23:48:08 -!- Phao [phao@189.107.187.88] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 23:48:21 Phao [phao@189.107.179.24] has joined #scheme 23:48:50 bacj 23:49:00 The name in UTC for the second which was 1296258369 - 63072000 seconds after 1972-01-01T00:00:00Z is 2011-01-28T23:46:09Z. This includes both the Gregorian calendar's name for the day (2011-01-28, i.e. January 28th, in the year 2011), and a time of day written in hours, minutes, and seconds. 23:49:19 so 23:49:22 that is naming days? 23:49:34 or seconds, or.. whatever 23:49:51 giving them those identifiers like this: 2011-01-28T23:46:09Z 23:49:59 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-159-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:43 Right. That particular spelling -- not just the abstract components `2011', `January', &c. -- is the ISO 8601 format; you could also say `Twenty-three hours, forty-six minutes, and nine seconds after the start of January 28th, 2011, UTC'. 23:51:08 ok 23:51:12 now things got easier 23:51:24 I thought there were a huge table with names and days like that being mapped 23:51:40 like "this is the name of a day" -> 21 jan 2012 23:51:58 The whole day is called January 28th, 2011, in the Gregorian calendar. Now, you could apply the Gregorian calendar in different time zones or on different clocks; the Gregorian calendar is just a system for breaking a number of days since some reference time into a number of years, a number of months in that year, and a number of days in that month. 23:52:01 I thought normal names, like holyday names. 23:52:39 You could also name today in the Julian calendar (not to be confused with the (modified) Julian day number); it would be something like February 10th, 2011 in the Julian calendar. 23:53:09 Nobody but the Eastern Orthodox Church really uses the Julian calendar any more, however. 23:53:57 (I forget the current offset between the Julian and Gregorian calendars; today is probably closer to February 15th in the Julian calendar.) 23:54:00 -!- Iommi [~Iommi@239.Red-88-18-71.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:37 right 23:54:55 well 23:55:01 I'll try to understand all that 23:55:04 and then go back to my program 23:55:41 So, choose a reference time, say the start of UTC, back in 1972. Now choose a clock, say TAI: that tells you where to put tick marks on a time line you draw on a piece of paper starting from that time. UTC gives you a system for naming each of those ticks, and naming consecutive groups of them as minutes, and naming consecutive groups of minutes as hours, and naming consecutive groups of hours as days. 23:56:10 Iommi [~Iommi@72.Red-88-22-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:40 The modified Julian day number is a system for naming those days with natural numbers; the Gregorian calendar is a system for naming those days with year/month/day coordinates. 23:58:53 ok 23:59:11 it's getting simpler :) 23:59:15 thx