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[~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 07:33:13 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:06 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.237.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:44:55 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:57:12 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-89-4-200.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:06:41 mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 08:18:22 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:21:30 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118419 this is a function that returns a function isn't it? always wondered what the use of that would be 08:31:13 lewis1711: correct. 08:31:49 lewis1711: functions (closures more precisely) can be used to implement abstractions, including data abstraction. 08:37:52 phao [~phao@189.107.237.68] has joined #scheme 08:40:54 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:42:28 StephenFalken [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 08:42:48 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:43:57 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 08:47:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:49:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:49:02 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:49:11 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:49:48 lewis1711: what use? Suppose you have a very complex function that uses two parameters. Half the time you use it, the second parameter is always the same. Would you like to always write this second parameter? Or would you think it's better to create another function where it's set once for all? 08:51:30 (define (foo x y) 1000-lines-of-code)). In your code, you have the call (foo _ 42) that appears 1283 times (where "_" is something different). Would you not write do (defun (foo-42 x) (foo x 42)) and replace the 1283 instances of (foo _ 42) by 1283 instances of (foo-42 _)? 08:51:52 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:52:26 How about the canonical example of... (map (lambda (x) (* x 2)) list-of-numbers-to-double) 08:52:29 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:53:37 Obfuscate: Well, that's not a function returning a function. (Neither is mine, in fact, as I forgot to write (define (foo x) (lambda (y) ...)) and also talked about the second argument) 08:53:53 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:16 why would you need a function to set a second paramater? 08:55:26 It seems like the question is more of... what are closures useful for? 08:57:37 I don't quite get what a closure is. "In some languages, a closure may occur when a function is defined within another function, and the inner function refers to local variables of the outer function." 08:57:40 that makes sense to me 08:57:54 lewis1711: How would you write the call to map without lambda? Something like... (define (mul2 x) (mul x 2)) ... (map mul2 some-list) ? 08:58:03 oh scheme was the first language to implement them, good work;) 08:58:49 Obfuscate: ok what, what are we doing again? your map doesn't return a function from what i see. it just returns a list 08:59:00 Now, what if you have this... (define (foo y) (map mul-y some-list)) ? 08:59:31 We're about there... how would you rewrite that so you can have a multiply-by-y function? 09:00:10 The simple way is (lambda (x) (* x y)), which is an example of a closure. 09:00:34 How would you write that using a global define? 09:00:35 lewis1711: When you write "(define (foo x) ...)", it in fact is "(define foo (lambda (x) ...)". So, "foo" returns a lambda. Therefore, you can do (map foo list). 09:01:57 ok hang on 09:02:53 you are saying that foo returns a function? but err, it is a function. it just evaluates to itself 09:03:34 no. 09:03:40 foo is a variable. 09:03:47 bound to a lambda. 09:03:49 He means that the (define (foo ...) ...) form is special syntax for defining the variable foo as the result of a lambda expression. 09:04:01 ok sure 09:04:30 So, when you type "foo", it *returns* you the lambda. 09:05:42 so variables can be thought of things that return what they're bound to? 09:05:52 So, you're very happy, because now you can write (map foo '(1 2 3)) since foo returned a lambda that you could apply to each element of the list 09:05:57 lewis1711: yes. 09:06:05 (define y 5) 09:06:06 y => 5 09:06:33 hmm ok, so (define (foo x) ... ) evaluates to a function? 09:06:41 rudybot: eval (begin (define (foo x) x) foo) 09:06:41 Axioplase_: your sandbox is ready 09:06:41 Axioplase_: ; Value: # 09:07:06 check page 16 of R5RS, lewis1711 09:07:17 (define (foo x) ...) is rewritten as (define foo (lambda (x) ...)). Then, "foo" is bound to that lambda. 09:07:27 hmm 09:07:28 What (define . .) returns is unspecified. 09:07:41 ok, but what does this have to do with closures? 09:08:02 so far all i can think of them as is "nested functions" 09:08:06 lewis1711: The way that "(lambda (x) ...)" is represented in memory is a closure. 09:08:36 Closure is not in the source code. It's in the computers' memory. 09:08:56 right 09:09:11 I've tried to get closures so many times before. herp derp 09:09:39 It's the value representing a function, which is used by the interpreter/compiler to do the computations of this function. 09:10:07 Now, I have to go. 09:10:09 what do you mean by value? 09:10:10 ah 09:10:15 laters:) 09:10:46 lewis1711: A closure is a function that "captures" a variable from the surrounding scope. 09:11:31 (define (foo x) (lambda (x) ... )) ...so that inner lambda is a closure because it can grab the x? 09:12:10 No, that is not a closure, because x is shadowed in the lambda. 09:12:36 (define (mul y) (lambda (x) (* x y))) ; here the lambda expression creates a closure of the variable y 09:12:56 not getting the difference 09:13:12 both times the variable is an argument to an outer function 09:13:33 but one of them is shadowed (not sure what that is), and the other is closured 09:13:50 (define (foo x) (lambda (x) (mul x x))) ; what do you get? 09:14:25 The x inside the lambda expression there does not refer to the x that foo is passed (that x is silently discarded because it's never used). 09:14:34 a procedure called foo? 09:15:00 it doesn't? 09:15:10 (define (foo x) (lambda () (mul x x))) ; a closure 09:15:10 oh man.. 09:15:18 (define (foo x) (lambda (x) (mul x x))) ; not a closure 09:15:34 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:15:43 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 09:15:58 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 09:16:43 rudybot: (define (foo x) (lambda (x) (mul x x))) 09:16:44 lewis1711: your sandbox is ready 09:16:45 lewis1711: Done. 09:16:52 rudybot: (foo 3) 09:16:53 lewis1711: ; Value: # 09:17:12 rudybot: ((foo 3) 4) 09:17:13 lewis1711: error: reference to undefined identifier: mul 09:17:50 Heh, try * instead of mul with the same example 09:17:59 rudybot: (define (foo x) (lambda (x) (* x x))) 09:17:59 StephenFalken: your sandbox is ready 09:18:00 StephenFalken: Done. 09:18:04 (foo 3) 09:18:06 blergh lol 09:18:11 rudybot: (foo 3) 09:18:11 StephenFalken: ; Value: # 09:18:16 rudybot: ((foo 3) 4) 09:18:17 StephenFalken: ; Value: 16 09:18:28 rudybot: ((foo 3) 5) 09:18:28 StephenFalken: ; Value: 25 09:18:39 rudybot: ((foo 334) 5) 09:18:40 StephenFalken: ; Value: 25 09:19:03 so the procedure that is returned is discarded 09:19:04 I see 09:19:06 sorry 09:19:12 the argument you pass to the procedure 09:19:12 foo 09:19:17 whereas... 09:19:35 rudybot: (define (foo x) (lambda () (* x x)) 09:19:35 lewis1711: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 09:19:45 Gmind1 [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 09:19:48 Yes, because you redefine x as a parameter in the lambda expression. 09:19:53 rudybot: (define (foo x) (lambda () (* x x))) 09:19:53 lewis1711: Done. 09:19:59 (foo 3) 09:20:05 rudybot: (foo 3) 09:20:06 lewis1711: ; Value: # 09:20:15 (* x x) binds x to the closest 'definition' of x....and that comes at (lambda (*x*) (* x x)) 09:20:26 rudybot: ((foo 3) 4) 09:20:26 lewis1711: error: #: expects no arguments, given 1: 4 09:20:53 rudybot: ((foo 3)) 09:20:53 StephenFalken: error: #: expects 1 argument, given 0 09:21:01 rudybot: (define (foo x) (lambda () (* x x))) 09:21:01 StephenFalken: Done. 09:21:03 rudybot: ((foo 3)) 09:21:03 StephenFalken: ; Value: 9 09:21:24 right 09:21:40 so a closure is... a function inside another function that can use the values passed to the outer function?:/ 09:22:18 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:22 as Obfuscate said: lewis1711: A closure is a function that "captures" a variable from the surrounding scope. 09:22:37 There is a capture here: (define (foo x) (lambda () (* x x))) 09:22:50 There is no capture here: (define (foo x) (lambda (x) (* x x))) 09:23:31 There is a capture here: (define (foo y) (lambda (x) (* x y))) 09:26:43 Makes sense, lewis1711 ? 09:28:34 yeah sort of:) 09:29:02 I guess if you go (lambda (x) ...) *inside* a function that already has x as an arg, it expects another x 09:29:08 not the same one 09:30:10 so it doesn't form a closure as no capturing is invovled 09:31:47 in other scheme news, i need to read that bit again that explains the dot pair thing and how lists are constructed from them 09:33:54 '(a . (b . (c . ())))  => (a b c) 09:34:04 Check page 25 on R5RS about dotted pairs. 09:34:06 yes 09:34:25 is R5RS readable by noobs? I usually use TSPL 09:34:58 I guess it is. Not everthing, but it's mostly acessible. 09:35:03 And it's a nice reference 09:35:09 Only 50 pages 09:36:37 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/r5rs.pdf 09:37:12 hmm... 09:37:26 '(+ 1 (+ 2 (+ 3 4))) = '(+ 1 2 3 4), yes? 09:37:39 because + is technically a binary function 09:37:44 lewis1711: in '(a . (b . (c . ()))) => (a b c), the symbol "=>" is not quite right. It's "'(a . (b . (c . ()))) => (a . (b . (c . ())))", and then "(a . (b . (c . ()))) is-a-pain-to-read-and-write-so-let-s-just-write-instead (a b c)" 09:38:45 in compsci I usually read "=>" as "evaluates to", so i don't understand what you mean 09:38:48 '(a . ()) returns (a . ()). But it's unreadable. So, we use the more convenient notation (a b) instead, which is *exactly* the same thing. 09:39:24 oh I see, i forgot the end quote 09:39:35 no. 09:39:59 You had two things done by your "=>". One was evaluation, and one wase "rewriting conveniently" 09:40:39 I see 09:40:48 if it was evaluation it would imply that . is an operator 09:41:24 I'm surprised scheme actually lets you use (+) with more than two args 09:41:26 the dot is just an external representation of dotted pairs 09:41:28 . is not an operator. If it was, it would be a (. a ()) because of the prefix notation. 09:42:37 one for example, cannot do "(expt 1 2 3)" (at least in this r5rs scheme) 09:42:44 rudybot: (expt 1 2 3) 09:42:45 lewis1711: error: expt: expects 2 arguments, given 3: 1 2 3 09:42:50 lewis1711: If you unquote them, yes, except it's left-to-right application, not right-to-left (not that it matters for your example). 09:43:01 rudybot: '(4 . 5) 09:43:01 StephenFalken: ; Value: (4 . 5) 09:43:06 rudybot: (4 . 5) 09:43:06 StephenFalken: error: eval:1:0: application: bad syntax in: (4 . 5) 09:43:42 why is expt defined as a binary procedure, but not + or * which are also binary procedures? why not overload expt like has been done with all the others? 09:43:43 rudybot: (lambda . ((x) x)) 09:43:43 Axioplase_: ; Value: # 09:43:56 rudybot: ((lambda . ((x) (+ x 1))) 42) 09:43:56 Axioplase_: ; Value: 43 09:44:44 "." is just used for print/read of lists. As you know, (foo bar) is a list. So are (+ 1 3) and (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) 09:45:54 I must confess I don't understand what (lambda . ((x) x)) means. *shame* 09:47:25 StephenFalken: (foo . (bar)) is read as (foo bar). 09:47:46 So, "(lambda . ((x) x))" is read as "(lambda (x) x)" 09:48:09 "." is just something for the reader/printer. 09:49:02 Oh....(lambda . ((x) x)) as a dotted pair list. 09:49:03 I may find the scheme mailing list and ask that question. it sort of bothers me >_> 09:49:04 Interesting. 09:50:21 StephenFalken: Yes. That's why it's easy to generate code. 09:50:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:50:54 rudybot: (+ . (2 3)) 09:50:55 StephenFalken: ; Value: 5 09:51:17 rudybot: (+ . (2 . (3 . ()))) 09:51:17 StephenFalken: ; Value: 5 09:51:42 rudybot: (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x . '()))) 09:51:42 Axioplase_: error: eval:1:75: quote: bad syntax in: quote 09:52:15 I thought the dotted pair list wasn't accepted as input. Only as an output external representation. I'm glad to know it isn't that way. 09:55:35 rudybot: (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x . '()))) 09:55:36 StephenFalken: error: eval:1:75: quote: bad syntax in: quote 09:55:41 rudybot: (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x '()))) 09:55:41 StephenFalken: ; Value: (lambda (x) x) 09:55:51 rudybot: (eval (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x '())))) 09:55:52 StephenFalken: error: eval:1:6: define: not allowed in an expression context in: (define l (quote lambda)) 09:56:13 rudybot: (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) (eval (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x '())))) 09:56:14 StephenFalken: ; Value: # 09:56:27 rudybot: (define l 'lambda) (define _x_ (cons 'x '())) ((eval (cons l (cons _x_ (cons 'x '())))) 23) 09:56:28 StephenFalken: ; Value: 23 09:58:43 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:00:09 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:01:02 choas [~lars@p5792C036.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:06:14 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:36 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 10:19:45 wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:25:06 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-58-93-196.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:04 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 10:27:23 zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 10:27:51 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:34 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:29:44 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:29:54 zbigniew [~zb@2001:470:1f11:961::3e8] has joined #scheme 10:30:36 peter_ [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 10:30:44 -!- peter_ is now known as sjamaan 10:31:04 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 10:31:04 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 10:45:14 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:46:13 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:47:07 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 10:48:38 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:31 nsswb [~nsswb@87.212.234.21] has joined #scheme 11:00:08 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@87.212.234.21] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:30 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:10:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:13:52 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e057e8a.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 11:17:43 nsswb [~nsswb@87.212.234.21] has joined #scheme 11:17:50 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:10 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:28:54 -!- Gmind1 [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:05 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@87.212.234.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:34 mmc [~michal@cs181176169.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 11:34:58 <_danb_> rudybot: (1 . (2 . (3 . ()))) 11:34:59 _danb_: your sandbox is ready 11:34:59 _danb_: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 2 3 11:35:08 <_danb_> rudybot: '(1 . (2 . (3 . ()))) 11:35:08 _danb_: ; Value: (1 2 3) 11:35:21 <_danb_> rudybot: you're a good bot 11:35:21 _danb_: ACTION is prouder of his bot than most parents are of their kids 11:52:46 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-177-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 11:55:04 -!- Intensity [GcB66NA67Z@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:56:22 nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-209-226.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:07:41 kuribas [~user@d54C47960.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 12:16:27 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 12:22:53 http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/scheme.ml 12:23:09 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25:00 Interesting filename 12:31:58 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:33:53 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 12:35:29 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:03 leppie ? 12:44:02 mmc1 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 12:45:12 -!- mmc [~michal@cs181176169.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:12 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:49:11 DrDuck [~duck@66-168-225-64.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 12:51:31 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51:47 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:16:58 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:38 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 13:26:03 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 13:26:09 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:18 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 13:38:08 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.186.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:02 -!- certainty [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:41 certaint1|work [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 13:40:41 -!- certaint1|work is now known as certainty 13:40:46 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:05 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:40 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:46:56 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:12 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.237.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:51 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:03:44 nsswb [~nsswb@h155068.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 14:10:03 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 14:11:00 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e057e8a.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 14:33:30 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@h155068.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:15 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 14:38:52 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:39:07 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:40:56 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:51:00 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:31 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:05:52 tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 15:26:32 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:07 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:27:17 zevarito [~zevarito@r186-48-125-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:38:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:10 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:08:44 vpalle [~vpalle@0x3ec65448.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:19:15 mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has joined #scheme 16:25:46 -!- mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:14 Tankado [~woodruff@bzq-79-182-16-176.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:41 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 16:44:28 -!- incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:49 Bwahahahahaha. 16:46:07 lewis1711 is really going to ask on a Scheme mailing list why expt isn't multiple-arity? O_o 16:46:25 mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has joined #scheme 16:47:54 make sure you compare to ruby, to get everyone in a good mood first. 16:47:55 -!- StephenFalken [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:13 ...did he really do that? Seriously?! 16:49:40 What's so absurd about that? 16:50:23 Riastradh: Well, I think the standard response would be something along the lines of "Scheme ain't Ruby, so suck it". Unless you think a different response is likelier. 16:50:38 -!- mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:19 I was referring to n-ary EXPT. 16:52:23 Riastradh: I don't have a problem with an n-ary EXPT; I actually wrote a reduce-right-based version just for fun. 16:52:43 Riastradh: But, you may remember the last time we brought this up, people couldn't actually agree on which associativity was correct. :-P 16:57:54 StephenFalken [email@89-180-232-197.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 16:57:59 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:05 -!- zevarito [~zevarito@r186-48-125-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:00 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:45 rudybot: eval (-) 17:09:47 Jafet: your sandbox is ready 17:09:47 Jafet: error: -: expects at least 1 argument, given 0 17:10:07 (Should I ask on the mailing list why (-) isn't 0?) 17:12:50 funny, I'm just thinking about (*) at the moment 17:12:58 Jafet: I think it's because the first arg to - is special 17:13:15 - is like +, except the signs of all-but-the-first args are reversed 17:13:29 if there are no arguments at all, then you cannot figure out which is the first arg, so ... 17:13:37 Except when it has less than two arguments 17:13:54 I think the one-arg case is also "special" 17:14:04 since it's convenient for it to mean "the additive inverse of the arg" 17:14:09 but that's vaguely inconsistent 17:14:21 in this case, apparently, the designers chose inconsistent-but-convenient over consistent 17:15:07 Well, it's consistent with the mathematical tradition of having two subtly different operators that are both written as -. 17:15:29 :) 17:15:36 That justification doesn't cover scheme's /, of course. 17:20:50 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:37:04 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:53 -!- Tankado [~woodruff@bzq-79-182-16-176.red.bezeqint.net] has left #scheme 17:45:14 mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has joined #scheme 17:56:23 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.186.184] has joined #scheme 17:59:02 -!- mmc [~michal@148.122.187.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:56 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 18:06:19 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:52 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:22:37 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:27:26 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C47960.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:30:55 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.186.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:14 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:50:00 wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:00:05 phao [~phao@189.107.168.226] has joined #scheme 19:02:43 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03:02 j-invariant [~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant] has joined #scheme 19:03:11 how could I add a new number type to PLT? 19:03:14 racket 19:03:19 for example polynomials 19:03:40 Heh, (lambda . ((x) x) is cool 19:03:47 Useless, but cool 19:03:56 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:04:20 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.58.93.196] has joined #scheme 19:05:43 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:05 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:10:53 j-invariant: interesting question 19:11:16 fds: that just looks like a funny way to spell the identity function 19:11:29 rudybot: (define wot (lambda . ((x) x))) 19:11:29 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 19:11:30 *offby1: Done. 19:11:35 rudybot: (wot 3) 19:11:35 *offby1: ; Value: 3 19:11:48 offby1: It is (I saw it in the scrollback) 19:11:57 I just thought it was neat. :-P 19:12:45 *shrug* 19:13:16 I doubt I'd have ever thought of it myself 19:16:04 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:34 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 19:24:14 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:13 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-209-226.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- 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[~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 19:26:15 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-218-205.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 19:26:15 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:15 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:15 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 19:26:26 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:26:42 scheme is awesome.. such little syntax 19:26:58 pothos [~pothos@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 19:28:05 schmir [~schmir@p54A91475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:31:44 "real" schemes tend to have a fair amount of syntax 19:31:56 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:06 I'm kind of talking about SICP 19:32:13 ah 19:32:21 well, SICP uses a sort of idealized minimal Scheme 19:33:34 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-126-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:38:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 19:39:01 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 19:39:10 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 19:39:30 is slib-3b3 the most current slib? 19:42:01 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:25 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:54 gosh, I dunno 19:59:37 http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/SLIB.html sure suggests so 20:02:24 femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-177-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:05:26 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-177-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:19 I'lul just use +. -. *. /. 20:21:29 since I can't seem to get along wiht + - * / 20:24:42 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 20:25:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:34 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:35 ^-^ 20:32:59 j-invariant: you might ask on #racket 20:33:07 if eli is around, I'll bet you he answers your question 20:36:52 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:43:41 masm [~masm@bl19-144-49.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 20:48:16 samth [~samth@dhc023752.med.harvard.edu] has joined #scheme 20:49:36 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as TRWBW 20:50:24 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #scheme 20:51:14 -!- TRWBW [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:51:52 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:02:42 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-177-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:02:57 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:52 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-177-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 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StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 23:22:58 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:16 alvatar [~alvatar@230.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 23:26:29 ventonegro [~alex@189.102.182.111] has joined #scheme 23:27:10 scheibo [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:33:32 scheibo_ [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:35:02 -!- scheibo_ [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:46 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:13 -!- DrDuck [~duck@66-168-225-64.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:17 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C036.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:28 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:44 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@0x3ec65448.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:46 scheibo [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:56 -!- aleix [~aleix@119.118.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #scheme 23:56:04 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:56:22 scheibo [~scheibo@CPE0026f3358958-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:56:28 what is wrong with these:(define-syntax when (syntax-rules () ((_) t e1) ((_ t e1 e2 ...) (if t(begin e1 e2 ...))))) 23:57:05 what is meant by malformed syntax-rules? 23:58:07 You had an extra ) after the _. 23:58:44 oh, picky picky it is uh 23:59:05 rudybot: (define-syntax when (syntax-rules () ((_ pred body ...) (if pred (begin body ...) (void)))) 23:59:06 cky: The "init r5rs" loads up R5RS mode, which does enable the (if pred foo) version.