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03:10:54 (current-command-line-arguments) 03:12:40 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-93.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:12:53 O.o, apparently not in guile 03:12:56 I'll ask there 03:12:57 -!- Tekk_ [~user@132.sub-69-98-25.myvzw.com] has left #scheme 03:16:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:29 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:25 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:35:37 do s-expressions fold left or right? 03:36:20 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:36:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:37 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-43-164.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:13 lewis1711: What does that mean? 03:40:25 lewis1711: fold goes from left to right; fold-right goes from right to left. 03:40:30 Unless you were asking about something else? :-) 03:42:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:42 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 03:50:45 aren't s-expressions themselves folds? 03:52:45 timj__ [~timj@e176197179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:54:13 (+ 1 2 3) to me seems like a fold with the implicit identity element for real number addition, 0 03:55:00 surely that depends on a whole bunch of semantics not defined by s-expressions 03:55:23 lewis1711: The order of addition in an expression like (+ 1 2 3) is not defined. 03:55:39 i.e., implementations can choose to add 1 and 2 first, or 2 and 3 first, or (!!!) 1 and 3 first. 03:55:47 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:54 so this implies that all procedures must be transitive? 03:56:26 No, I was simply talking about how + is defined, not functions in general. 03:56:35 ah 03:56:46 good, because transitive was the wrong word I think 03:56:49 yes 03:56:51 For function calls like (foo (bar) (baz) (qux)), implementations can evaluate (bar), (baz), and (qux) in any order. 03:57:06 However, all three will complete before foo is called. 03:57:17 symmetric! 03:57:19 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:37 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:58:20 lewis1711: In the example above, implementations can call (bar) then (baz) then (qux), or (qux) then (baz) then (bar), or any other ordering it pleases. 03:59:17 surely it must be defined for / 03:59:23 or things would go horribly wrong 03:59:38 lewis1711: Don't get Riastradh started on that topic. :-P 03:59:56 ha, hmm? 04:00:25 lewis1711, the arguments are *evaluated* in any order, but the function gets them in the order they are written, and can then process the (usually implicit) list of arguments any way it likes. 04:00:49 got it 04:01:49 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 04:04:19 lewis1711: The standard defines left-to-right order for multi-argument calls to /, however, (if I read correctly) Riastradh thinks that there is no reason to particularly favour left-to-right over right-to-left order. 04:04:48 is he arabic? 04:04:58 Not to my knowledge. :-P 04:05:09 or jewish, perhaps (I think hebrew reads right to left) 04:05:30 I think it's really just that in Scheme, order is not usually defined. 04:05:45 Like, if you do a (let ((foo ...) (bar ...) (baz ...)) ...), 04:05:56 foo, bar, and baz are not guaranteed to be set in that order. 04:05:59 Or any particular order, in fact. 04:06:42 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.177.254] has joined #scheme 04:10:09 Or, with something like (map somefunc '(foo bar baz)), there will be one call to (somefunc 'foo), (somefunc 'bar), and (somefunc 'baz), but not necessarily in that order, nor in any particular order. 04:20:32 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:24:59 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:29 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.66.15] has joined #scheme 04:28:31 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:35:54 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:40:43 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:48:35 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50:13 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:56:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:07:25 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.66.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12:16 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:49 is there a scheme bot here? 05:15:52 > (+ 1 2) 05:16:05 rudybot: (+ 1 2) 05:16:06 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 05:16:06 Riastradh: ; Value: 3 05:16:19 rudybot: (print 2) 05:16:20 unkanon: your sandbox is ready 05:16:20 unkanon: ; stdout: "2" 05:16:29 rudybot: ('(print 2)) 05:16:29 unkanon: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: (print 2) (no arguments) 05:16:33 shouldn't that work? 05:16:46 isn't () short for function application? 05:16:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17:03 <_danb_> unkanon: you want the list (print 2) to act like a function 05:17:08 yes 05:17:26 rudybot: '(print 2) 05:17:26 unkanon: ; Value: (print 2) 05:17:38 after all, '(print 2) does evaluate to (print 2) 05:17:48 oh I kinda see the problem there 05:18:11 <_danb_> back to sicp for you!! 05:18:12 The expression '(print 2) evaluates to a list of two elements, a symbol and a number. Evaluating the expression ('(print 2)) first evaluates '(print 2), and then tries to apply the resulting object, a list, to zero arguments. It makes no sense to apply a list; one can apply only procedures. 05:18:12 so ('(print 2)) evals to ((print 2)) ? 05:18:41 right that's what I just realized 05:19:20 rudybot: (eval '(print 2)) 05:19:21 unkanon: ; stdout: "2" 05:19:40 Riastradh: thanks for the clear explanation though :) 05:21:48 rudybot: ((delay (+ 1 2))) 05:21:49 cky: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: # (no arguments) 05:22:09 Hehehe, Racket isn't one of those implementations where you can invoke promises directly. :-P 05:22:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:22:59 i guess that could be added easily enough, but probably isn't done for some reason 05:23:07 i mean, just override the prop:procedure property 05:27:18 For what reason would it be done? 05:27:37 <_danb_> rudybot: ((lambda () (print 2))) 05:27:38 _danb_: your sandbox is ready 05:27:38 _danb_: ; stdout: "2" 05:36:20 yes that one I understand :) 05:38:15 bokr [~eduska@85.26.241.248] has joined #scheme 05:39:10 <_danb_> rudybot: (lambda () (print 2)) 05:39:11 _danb_: ; Value: # 05:39:26 <_danb_> hm, so I guess a lambda list is a bit like a procedure literal ? 05:40:05 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:30 just like any function, no? 05:40:32 rudybot: print 05:40:32 unkanon: ; Value: # 05:43:16 <_danb_> there's a section in Paul Graham's On Lisp (free) where he talks about how it's a literal... I think; maybe in the same way that the symbol 1 or the string "foo" are literals that evaluate to whatever represents them internally 05:43:19 <_danb_> rudybot: 1 05:43:19 _danb_: ; Value: 1 05:43:23 <_danb_> rudybot: "foo" 05:43:23 _danb_: ; Value: "foo" 05:46:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:04 _danb_: as far as I understand it, litterals are things that evaluate to themselves. 05:47:53 <_danb_> yes, I'm probably suffering from reading too many things on too many different types of lisps. I'll have to go back and read what PG was saying again some time 05:48:00 jcowan [~John@p-69-195-52-55.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:12 <_danb_> rudybot: lambda 05:50:12 _danb_: error: eval:1:0: lambda: bad syntax in: lambda 05:50:30 I tried common lisp, it struck me as ugly and confusing. 05:50:41 hum, looks like a litteral is either a quoted thing '(like this litteral list), or a thing that evaluates to itself "like this string". 05:51:18 Quite so. Also 4, #t, #\space. 05:51:38 <_danb_> lewis1711: I think I can appreciate it; I'm reading Land of Lisp at the moment... :) 05:51:59 (my list wasn't exhaustive, but I did overlook #\space in my head) 05:52:12 Axioplase_, your Frenchness (or Quebecoicity) is showing through again -- `literal' has only one `t' in English. 05:52:28 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:53:03 Riastradh: Yes, I know. I just happened to realise that a couple of minutes ago while grepping for "litteral/literal" on a webpage. 05:53:22 <_danb_> littoral? 05:53:25 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.177.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:39 Funny, though. That's the opposite pattern with "address(EN)/adresse(FR)". 05:57:49 English is essentially misspelled French. 05:58:32 Although one could argue that the converse is true, since English tends to preserve older French spellings. 05:58:56 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:25 jcowan: the only non anglo-saxon word in that sentence was essentially, so you're wrong 05:59:42 lewis1711: http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/essential.html 06:00:57 stuff being on the internet doesn't make it right:) 06:01:09 Stuff on the internet is essentially right. 06:01:22 Indeed. 06:02:43 Well, I know some nice misspellt French in English, maugre the fact that I can hardly use them in daily conversation. 06:03:58 In any case, "French" and "spell" have been passed around between the languages so that it's unclear what their true origin is. Old French got "espeller" from Frankish, a Germanic language, and that got mixed with Old English "spelljan". 06:04:45 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 06:05:24 accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #scheme 06:08:58 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:19 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 06:13:57 uhm... is basically comes from PIE *est which gave Latin est 06:14:10 misspelled indeed is saxon 06:14:22 english is french, I believe 06:15:33 English is French? Now that's just going too far. 06:15:36 english is mostly latin/PIE in one form or another 06:15:37 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:15:51 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 06:16:11 "anglais", non? 06:16:33 <_danb_> PIE? 06:16:34 plus the Romans are the ones that names the Angles 06:16:46 Proto Indo-European 06:16:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:02 ukanon; so? it came from the germanic tree of est 06:17:30 you'd think schemers would be better at visualising trees 06:17:30 yes but it's not something exclusively saxon 06:17:41 but you're right 06:18:53 for instance, etymonline.com says "ball" comes from proto germanic *balluz, from PIE *bhel (asterisk means not attested), but it's very similar to Latin pila = ball 06:19:15 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:23 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:19:54 how do I turn '(1 2 3) into 1 2 3 (without the parentheses)? 06:20:01 I want to turn this into a function: 06:20:06 rudybot: (< 1 2 3 4) 06:20:06 unkanon: ; Value: #t 06:20:10 called sorted? 06:20:36 like, (sorted? '(1 2 3 4)) --> #t 06:21:07 unkanon: That's a coincidence. Latin words in p- correspond to Germanic words in f-. 06:21:08 rudybot: (define sorted? (list) (< (eval list))) 06:21:08 lewis1711: your sandbox is ready 06:21:08 lewis1711: error: eval:1:0: define: bad syntax (multiple expressions after identifier) in: (define sorted? (list) (< (eval list))) 06:21:22 rudybot: (define (sorted list) (apply < list)) 06:21:23 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 06:21:23 cky: Done. 06:21:30 rudybot: (sorted? '(1 2 3 4)) 06:21:31 cky: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: sorted? in module: 'program 06:21:43 rudybot: (sorted '(1 2 3 4)) 06:21:44 cky: ; Value: #t 06:21:49 unkanon: Is that what you meant? 06:22:12 cky: oh I think so :) lemme play with it a bit on my repl 06:22:16 Of course, nobody should name their parameter "list". 06:22:21 So, let's start again! 06:22:24 rudybot: init racket 06:22:25 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 06:22:28 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:22:32 rudybot: (define (sorted? l) (apply < l)) 06:22:32 cky: Done. 06:22:37 rudybot: (sorted? '(1 2 3 4)) 06:22:37 cky: ; Value: #t 06:22:50 awesome, thanks 06:22:55 <_danb_> what's funcall in scheme? 06:23:04 parentheses I believe? 06:23:07 _danb_: You don't. Just use the value in first slot. 06:23:13 (I'm a complete beginner so don't listen to me) 06:23:24 rudybot: ((if #t + *) 3 4) 06:23:25 cky: ; Value: 7 06:23:30 rudybot: ((if #f + *) 3 4) 06:23:30 cky: ; Value: 12 06:23:37 _danb_: That's funcall for ya. 06:24:24 _danb_: If you want you could define it like this: (define (funcall f . args) (apply f args)). There's no need to, however. 06:24:48 what's that dot in there, in a sentence? 06:25:05 unkanon: That makes a dotted pair. In the above context, it uses "args" as rest arguments. 06:25:11 oh is that destruction? 06:25:15 rudybot: (begin (define (sorted? l) (apply < l)) (sorted? '(1 2 2 3))) 06:25:16 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 06:25:16 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 06:25:17 oh I see 06:25:23 like Haskell's (x:xs) 06:25:29 pretty, I like it 06:25:30 Riastradh: Good point. 06:25:48 unkanon: Riastradh example demonstrates you should use <=, not <. 06:25:57 rudybot: (begin (define (sorted? l) (apply <= l)) (sorted? '(1 2 2 3))) 06:25:58 unkanon: your sandbox is ready 06:25:58 unkanon: ; Value: #t 06:26:01 fixed :) 06:26:07 :-) 06:26:27 <_danb_> hm ok, i was just wanting the alternative to (apply < some-list) as in (call < 1 2 3 4), but I guess that's what (< 1 2 3 4) is doing 06:26:42 _danb_: Indeed. 06:26:45 <_danb_> ie a spliced list 06:26:47 Now what happens if all you have is a binary order predicate? 06:27:00 Riastradh: You use reduce, of course. 06:27:05 well luckily < is variadic out of the box 06:27:29 no, fold wouldnt work for that 06:27:35 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 06:27:35 cky: Done. 06:27:36 fold doesn't work pair-by-pair 06:28:11 Nor can it straightforwardly stop partway through. 06:28:16 Hmmm. 06:28:42 I don't know if there's a generic way to turn a binary function into a variadic one pair-by-pair 06:28:58 unkanon: You might be able to do it with a macro. Lemme try cooking one up. 06:29:58 Macro? 06:31:10 you could do it with a function 06:31:27 unkanon: True. 06:31:48 first step is to take a list and generate all running pairs from it 06:32:06 then map the function over that list of pairs 06:32:21 unkanon, note that this is not a totally generic transformation from f to g so that (f x y ... z) = (g x (g y (... (g z) ...))) or something; the name SORTED? suggests a much more specific transformation for much more specific f and g. 06:32:29 and apply an all function ("or" in scheme) over the mapped list 06:33:22 Consider simply working left to right rather than mapping over the list and reducing the result. 06:33:23 "or" is not a function, so can't be applied. 06:33:34 Riastradh: oh it wouldn't be nested at all (I don't think) 06:34:00 Riastradh: it's not mapping over the list 06:34:09 it's mapping over the list of running-pairs generated from the list 06:34:12 -!- bokr [~eduska@85.26.241.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:38:01 unkanon: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118200 06:39:36 Obviously even simpler if we don't need to support the 0-argument case. 06:43:24 Riastradh: this is what I mean: http://pastebin.ca/2036443 06:43:32 I don't know how to do it in Scheme yet 06:43:45 cky: I can only half-understand that code :) 06:43:51 I'm very much a beginner at Scheme 06:44:40 if you write my haskell function in Scheme, though, you'll have a function that turns a binary function into a variadic function 06:46:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:43 I don't even know how to begin to write that in Scheme, lol 06:48:32 unkanon: goole for "curry, uncurry" 06:48:42 I know those from haskell 06:48:56 then google them for scheme? 06:49:02 oh :) 06:51:25 that'll help me write that function in scheme? 06:51:33 By the way: pairs l = zip l (tail l) is easier to read/understand 06:51:34 what I need is pattern-matching :P 06:51:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:51:48 but mine's easier to write! 06:51:57 no. You need to be able to check whether a list is empty or not. 06:52:14 true, true 06:52:21 hint: NULL? CAR and CDR are all you need. 06:52:27 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:52:27 I'm not that smart to think of zip but that's pretty clever, yeah 06:53:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 06:53:48 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@61-228-157-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:50 I got too used to pattern matching so it's hard to think without them 06:54:02 let me try 06:54:41 Pattern matching is not algorithm. You need to think of what you want to do 06:54:53 not an algorithm 06:55:24 what's zip called in scheme? 06:55:39 unkanon: zip. 06:55:44 Load SRFI 1 first. 06:55:51 oh 06:55:54 It's not provided by default, but you can write it easily. 06:56:15 -!- accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:56:30 But I think it's harder than just writing the function you want. 06:56:49 I don't even know how to load srfi-1 in chicken scheme :) 06:56:52 There are three cases: empty list, list with only one element, and whatever-else. 06:56:58 yes 06:57:10 those are exactly the cases I tested for in my haskell code 06:57:14 There you go. No need for pattern matching. 06:57:18 just TESTS 06:57:27 Pattern matching can be cool too. 06:57:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118202 06:58:38 unkanon: ^^-- has an example using case-lambda, which is similar to your matching approach. 06:58:43 <_danb_> wow 06:58:50 aww I love case-lambda now :) 06:58:53 <_danb_> rudybot: (require srfi/1) 06:58:53 _danb_: your sandbox is ready 06:58:54 _danb_: Done. 06:58:54 unkanon: :-) 06:59:16 <_danb_> rudybot: (define (pairs . args) (zip args (cdr args))) 06:59:16 that (require srfi/1) form tdoesn't work for me in csi 06:59:16 _danb_: Done. 06:59:23 unkanon: (use srfi-1) 07:00:03 awesome, thanks! 07:00:06 :-) 07:00:34 man, I'm really glad to have case-lambda, you have no idea, lol 07:00:39 Hehehehe. 07:00:42 <_danb_> rudybot: (pairs 1 2 3 4) 07:00:42 _danb_: ; Value: ((1 2) (2 3) (3 4)) 07:01:04 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:43 cky: well, considering he didn't know how to write it with just null?, car and cdr, I think that it giving SRFI-1 isn't helpful in the long-term 07:02:08 Axioplase_: Eh, I believe in higher-level programming. 07:02:11 can I write it using case-lambda? 07:02:15 Even given the code in another language with each test case written. 07:02:18 Axioplase_: Using null?, car, cdr is just so low-level. :-P 07:02:39 cky: I want to believe in programmers understanding how to program. 07:02:51 Axioplase_: In so saying, with http://paste.lisp.org/display/118200 I did use null?, car, and cdr. 07:03:09 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 07:03:15 Axioplase_: So obviously there's a time and place for lower-level constructs. 07:04:26 cky: I know that *you* can write the function he wants. I hope he'd manage to write it too. 07:04:36 I'm still trying, hold on :) 07:04:45 plus I haven't clicked his last link 07:06:33 unkanon: See http://paste.lisp.org/+2J7E/1 for a version that doesn't even directly mention "cons" and "list". :-P 07:06:45 unkanon: (Of course it uses both behind the scenes, but I think this version is more aesthetic.) 07:07:46 unkanon: write a function which given a list l, returns '() if if l is empty, or returns its first element. 07:08:01 that would be a good start. 07:09:30 rudybot: (define (warped l) ((if (null? l) values car) l)) 07:09:31 cky: Done. 07:09:34 rudybot: (warped '()) 07:09:34 cky: ; Value: () 07:09:41 rudybot: (warped '(1)) 07:09:41 cky: ; Value: 1 07:09:46 rudybot: (warped '(1 2 3 4 5)) 07:09:46 cky: ; Value: 1 07:10:08 Axioplase_: this is what I tried: http://pastebin.ca/2036456 07:10:11 but it doesn't work yet 07:10:44 That's because you randomly put brackets around code. 07:10:53 hahaha 07:12:18 well, in Scheme, brackets are isomorphic to the structure of your code. Your code is currently gibberish. It means nothing. 07:13:44 Try using IF instead of COND at first 07:13:48 ok 07:14:08 And use a text editor to write code. One with indentation of Scheme/Lisp code. 07:14:26 oh don't use the repl then? 07:14:26 ok 07:14:36 <_danb_> in emacs, you can do both! 07:14:43 *_danb_* has paredit turned on in the repl 07:14:52 <_danb_> probably a bad idea in the long-term 07:16:31 -!- jcowan [~John@p-69-195-52-55.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:17:24 unkanon: unless your REPL can indent code, no, maybe not. 07:17:39 ok I have the code in vim 07:17:47 how do I load it into the chicken repl to test it? 07:17:55 <_danb_> use emacs 07:17:57 <_danb_> :) 07:18:11 I like vim 07:18:29 <_danb_> fair enough, there's probably a repl-y type thing in vim 07:18:33 *_danb_* is a vimmigrant 07:18:45 no, I need to know how to load a .scm file into the chicken repl 07:19:02 copy paste? 07:19:24 or try (load "foo.scm") 07:19:34 I don't use chicken, but that may very well work. 07:20:10 Axioplase_: http://pastebin.ca/2036460 07:20:12 happy now? :P 07:20:18 it works, thanks 07:21:03 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:21:17 *Now*, you can rewrite using COND. 07:21:49 unkanon: One very useful feature of Scheme (and CL) for traversing lists is abbreviations like cadr, which is directly applicable to your example. 07:21:56 unkanon: cadr is the same as (compose car cdr). 07:21:57 And you'll see that it is still very similar to the haskell version in what it does. 07:22:22 unkanon: Or to get the third item, you can use caddr. 07:22:27 unkanon: You get the idea. :-) 07:22:41 Axioplase_: ok, I'll try cond now 07:23:06 cky: the cddr and cadadr stuff are still complicated for me :) 07:23:21 I'll get used to it. let me try the cond now 07:23:22 :-P 07:23:28 bathroom break first 07:23:37 Just take your laptop to the bathroom. :-P 07:23:54 (Multitasking ftw, amirite?) 07:24:06 wait, take your laptop to the bathroom? you mean you don't have a computer set up in there already? 07:25:36 Quite. 07:25:41 hahah 07:25:57 okay, on to cond 07:27:58 Axioplase_: http://pastebin.ca/2036464 07:28:00 hooray :) 07:28:02 what's next? 07:28:13 it's amazing how much indentation helps, btw 07:28:40 Im gonna need to fix my repl to do that because I'm completely addicted to the repl 07:28:44 and I hated it at first 07:28:50 but haskell converted me 07:28:55 And indentation works well thanks to brackets. So, brackets are good. Halleluiah! 07:29:34 *Axioplase_* now leaves, 'cause he's got a lot left to do. 07:29:39 I never hated scheme's parentheses 07:29:45 ok thanks for the help! 07:30:05 I actually love them as they make so much sense. 07:30:06 and indeed, the cond version looks like haskell's pattern matching 07:30:12 but case-lambda's still prettier :) 07:30:22 :-) 07:30:32 I'm sure I'll love them too when I stop getting lost in them 07:30:45 I do love the fact that I'm writing in AST basically 07:32:08 ok guys, I really gotta go now, it's 2:30 and I'm drunk and need sleep 07:32:27 cky: ttyl, thanks for introducing me to case-lambda :)) 07:33:32 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:16 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:43:52 -!- Guest10843 is now known as klutometis 07:44:29 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 07:46:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:13 :-) 07:52:27 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:56:58 <_danb_> hmm 07:57:34 <_danb_> so what's going wrong with unkanon's code if you change it to (define (pairs . lst) ...) ? 07:57:54 <_danb_> oh, I think I see 08:01:04 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:51 <_danb_> back to our old friend apply :) 08:05:27 <_danb_> does that affect tail-call though? 08:10:49 _danb_: No, but the list is copied fresh each time. 08:11:27 i.e., (define a '(1 2 3 4)) (apply + a) creates a fresh list to pass to +. 08:12:45 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 08:23:37 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:55 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 08:26:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:28 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:42:40 noonian [~noonian@c-98-232-230-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:46:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:48 accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #scheme 08:52:27 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:54:37 cky: (define a '(1 2 3 4)) does not create a fresh list. 08:55:25 pjb: No, what I meant is that the argument list to the + is not eq? to a. 08:56:04 cky: May it not be the same list. Since apply and + are pure 08:56:08 ? 08:56:18 (if compiled) 08:56:20 In other words, if I had (define (foo . args) (eq? a args)), this should always return false. 08:56:54 Correct. 08:57:57 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_sec_4.1.4 08:57:58 http://tinyurl.com/23pawpe 08:58:11 foof: bizarre behavior in (srfi 1): (drop-right (list 1 2 3) 1) => (); whereas: (drop-right (list 1 2 3) -1) => (1 2). 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[~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:31:00 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:32:29 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:38:53 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:38:53 erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has joined #scheme 15:50:40 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has left #scheme 16:01:37 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:22:29 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:09 -!- dettymac [~dettymac@173.13.241.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:24 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:44:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:54 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:49:16 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #scheme 16:49:36 is there a premade sorting algorithm which takes a comparison function? 16:50:01 I just want to pass it a list and cmp (some comparison function) and it'll quicksort a list 16:50:38 doesn't have to be quicksort 16:54:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:55:02 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:55:49 daedra: Yes. SRFI 95. 16:56:24 rudybot: (sort '(3 1 4 1 9 5) <) 16:56:25 cky: ; Value: (1 1 3 4 5 9) 16:56:31 rudybot: (sort '(3 1 4 1 9 5) >) 16:56:32 cky: ; Value: (9 5 4 3 1 1) 16:57:11 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:14 rudybot: (sort '(#\3 #\1 #\4 #\1 #\5 #\9) char cky: ; Value: (#\1 #\1 #\3 #\4 #\5 #\9) 16:57:34 rudybot: (sort '("3" "1" "4" "1" "5" "9") string cky: ; Value: ("1" "1" "3" "4" "5" "9") 16:59:12 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 17:00:02 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:00:30 can I see it's source? 17:01:11 There are lots of premade sorting algorithms, daedra! 17:02:04 daedra: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-95/srfi-95.html is one source of sources. 17:02:11 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:31 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:03:01 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 17:17:37 rudybot: (sort '(r a n d o m l e t t e r s) (lambda (x y) #t)) 17:17:37 carleastlund: your sandbox is ready 17:17:37 carleastlund: ; Value: (s r e t t e l m o d n a r) 17:17:56 Heh. Neat. I invented "reverse". 17:19:47 rudybot: (sort (build-list 10 values) < #:key (lambda (_) (random)) #:cache-keys? #t) 17:19:48 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 17:19:48 *offby1: ; Value: (6 3 4 5 7 9 8 0 2 1) 17:19:50 rudybot: (sort (build-list 10 values) < #:key (lambda (_) (random)) #:cache-keys? #t) 17:19:50 *offby1: ; Value: (7 2 1 8 9 0 5 4 6 3) 17:19:57 Heh. neat. I invented "shuffle". 17:20:02 (actually Eli invented that.) 17:20:49 zbrown [~zbrown@rufius.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 17:21:54 aleix [~aleix@67.Red-83-34-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:54 Of course, you have no idea what biases the sorting algorithm may induce with as badly behaving an `order' predicate as that, or even whether the sorting algorithm will converge, diverge, or signal an error. 17:27:16 Uh, no, it will behave fine. The order predicate is <. 17:27:34 Oh, I see, I misread. 17:28:16 Now mine, the constant #t, may behave poorly. But a sensible sorting algorithm should still terminate, albeit with a fairly arbitrarily order. 17:28:22 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 17:29:03 alvatar [~alvatar@4.23.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:29:09 :join #gentoo 17:29:19 (sorry) 17:30:42 knob [~anon@adsl-64-237-173-147.prtc.net] has joined #scheme 17:36:03 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:36:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:11 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:28 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:11 it's ok, we forgive you for using gentoo 17:49:22 if you observe my mistake, it is rooted in using vim lately... 17:50:32 We won't forgive you for that, though. 17:52:14 haha XD these are C++ days for me 17:56:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:21 -!- Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:49 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:57 Nisstyre65 [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 18:02:36 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:08 so let's say I want to use build-list, how do I found out which srfi is it in? 18:04:31 It's spelled L-I-S-T-hyphen-T-O-K-E-N-I-Z-E, in SRFI 1. 18:07:04 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:57 I just loaded srfi-1 and csi still doesn't know about list-tokenize 18:09:02 is that what you meant? 18:13:19 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B572F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:13:33 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B572F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 18:16:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:59 ...uh, excuse me, `tabulate', not `tokenize'. 18:18:49 that worked :) 18:19:22 so which one is R[5,6]RS? list-tabulaye or build-list? 18:19:35 and why does rudybot know build-list? 18:19:39 Neither. 18:19:45 BUILD-LIST is a Racket thing. 18:20:05 oh. what is rudybot running, racket? 18:20:26 Yes. 18:20:31 <_dnb_> rudybot: (banner) 18:20:31 _dnb_: your sandbox is ready 18:20:32 _dnb_: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.0.1.\n" 18:20:48 incubot: (banner) 18:20:49 Error: unbound variable: banner 18:20:52 :( 18:20:59 <_dnb_> incubot: (version) 18:21:00 Error: unbound variable: version 18:21:02 <_dnb_> bah! 18:21:06 *offby1* used to know what incubot was running 18:21:19 <_dnb_> rudybot: what version is incubot running? 18:21:20 _dnb_: does incubot have the same problem, whereby "he" echoes something that was just said? 18:21:36 chicken,I htink 18:21:51 incubot: (list-tabulate 10 values) 18:21:52 (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 18:22:01 rudybot: (build-list 10 values) 18:22:01 *offby1: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 18:22:05 it works like my csi 18:22:09 *offby1* hums "Dueling Banjos" 18:22:12 wow 18:22:18 build-list doesn't work in my csi 18:22:27 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:28 unkanon: incubot runs Chicken. 18:22:40 unkanon: csi == Chicken REPL. 18:22:43 right 18:22:46 rudybot runs at the sight of blood 18:22:54 offby1: :-D 18:23:37 lambdabot in #haskell has a @src command that shows the source code of a function. is there something equivalent in rudybot or incubot? 18:24:09 -!- offby1 is now known as rms 18:24:12 unkanon: I don't know of any Racket or Chicken functionality that shows the function source. 18:24:20 -!- rms is now known as offby1 18:24:21 unkanon: But then, I'm not an expert in either, so don't quote me on it. 18:24:27 offby1: !!! 18:24:42 cky: ??? 18:24:52 <_dnb_> rudybot: help 18:24:52 _dnb_: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 18:24:59 rudybot: source 18:25:00 cky: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 18:25:03 Heh. 18:25:22 unkanon: Guile has a source function, that returns the source if available, or #f if not. 18:25:23 <_dnb_> rudybot: version 18:25:23 _dnb_: 0e4bd7e 18:25:27 <_dnb_> oo 18:25:35 Yay for git revision numbers. 18:25:40 _dnb_: that's a Git "SHA1 hash" 18:25:45 ic 18:25:47 cky: I dunno if you're being sarcastic. 18:25:56 <_dnb_> offby1: ok, I believe you :) 18:26:10 offby1: Not really, just a sideways answer to _dnb_'s "oo" comment. 18:26:12 Um, that's a lot less than a SHA-1 hash. 18:26:25 Riastradh: It's the first 28 bits of one. :-) 18:26:27 Riastradh: now now, you know as well as I do that it's a _prefix_ of one. 18:26:32 cky: jinx 18:26:41 *cky* is jinxed. 18:26:53 also I put "SHA1 hash" in quotes, for further ass-coverage 18:28:11 <_dnb_> I think we need a succubot -- what scheme would be appropriate I wonder... 18:28:46 whichever one you like best. 18:29:14 <_dnb_> maybe one running java 18:29:19 <_dnb_> just to keep up with the clojure folks 18:29:26 <_dnb_> *jvm 18:33:08 I wonder if SISC is easy to sandbox. 18:33:24 If so, I might try running a SISC bot or something. 18:34:26 <_dnb_> that would be cool! 18:34:40 <_dnb_> there's anotherr java-based one I've heard about 18:34:55 There's a fair few JVM-based ones...JScheme, Kawa, Bigloo, etc. 18:35:00 <_dnb_> it had a distinctive name but can't remember it 18:35:04 <_dnb_> probably kawa 18:35:25 I don't think Bigloo is based on the JVM 18:36:28 offby1: I thought it had a mode for outputting JVM .class files, but I've never used it, so I wouldn't know. 18:37:10 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:18 mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:37:49 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:38:33 I think it's just a straight-up native-code compiler 18:38:58 oops, no, it indeed emits JVM bytecode. 18:39:00 http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Bigloo/ 18:41:31 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:53 dakeyras [~dakeyras@pool-173-64-149-152.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 18:57:24 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 18:58:59 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:31 rudybot: (eval (cons '+ '(2 3))) 19:01:32 unkanon: your sandbox is ready 19:01:32 unkanon: ; Value: 5 19:01:46 *gasp* 19:02:17 rudybot: (define (my-apply fun args) (eval (cons 'fun args))) 19:02:17 unkanon: Done. 19:02:27 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:02:28 unkanon: error: reference to undefined identifier: fun 19:03:05 if apply is simply cons + eval, then I'm having trouble writin it 19:04:10 apply in scheme is not based on eval, and as far as I know not writable. 19:04:51 butI still should be able to write an apply in terms of cons and eval, no? 19:05:06 What do you want it to do? 19:05:36 I want (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) to work the same as (apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:05:40 given that this works: 19:05:43 rudybot: (eval (cons '+ '(2 3))) 19:05:44 unkanon: ; Value: 5 19:06:05 rudybot: (eval (cons 'list '(x y z))) 19:06:05 carleastlund: your sandbox is ready 19:06:05 carleastlund: error: reference to undefined identifier: x 19:06:28 Apply does not involve eval. 19:06:52 I understood that. nevertheless, I should be able to write a my-apply in terms of cons and eval 19:07:28 quasiquote 19:07:34 rudybot: (define (my-apply fun args) (eval '(cons ,fun ,@args))) 19:07:35 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 19:07:35 cky: Done. 19:07:39 rudybot: (define (my-apply fun args) (eval `(cons ,fun ,@args))) 19:07:40 cky: Done. 19:07:51 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:07:53 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:07:53 cky: error: cons: expects 2 arguments, given 4: # 1 2 3 19:07:55 the duel is on 19:07:55 That's just going to run cons, cky. 19:08:02 Fail. 19:08:09 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:08:09 unkanon: error: reference to undefined identifier: fun 19:08:15 rudybot: (define (my-apply fun args) (eval `(,fun ,@args))) 19:08:15 cky: Done. 19:08:18 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:08:18 cky: ; Value: 6 19:08:20 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:08:21 unkanon: error: reference to undefined identifier: fun 19:08:31 oh, we each have a sandbox? got it. 19:09:16 rudybot: (define (wastefully-inefficient-apply f args) (eval `((quote ,f) ,@(map (lambda (arg) `(quote ,arg)) args)))) 19:09:16 carleastlund: Done. 19:09:31 rudybot: (wastefully-inefficient-apply 'list '(x y)) 19:09:31 carleastlund: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: list; arguments were: x y 19:09:49 cky got it already 19:10:02 member:rudybot: (wastefully-inefficient-apply list '(x y)) 19:10:07 unkanon: carleastlund wanted to do it in an extremely roundabout way. :-P 19:10:10 No he didn't 19:10:19 His doesn't work for symbol arguments. 19:10:20 rudybot: (my-apply list '(x y)) 19:10:21 cky: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program 19:10:31 Fail. 19:10:40 rudyboy: (wastefully-inefficient-apply list '(x y)) 19:10:48 ARGH 19:10:58 Why does this stupid client not have a command history... 19:11:06 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-43-164.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:06 rudybot: (wastefully-inefficient-apply list '(x y)) 19:11:07 carleastlund: ; Value: (x y) 19:11:09 carleastlund: Time to upgrade to irssi, amirite? 19:11:10 There. 19:11:27 And this nonsense is why eval is a tool best left in the shed. 19:11:31 Agree. 19:11:40 (define (my-apply f args) (eval `((quote ,f) ,@(map (lambda (arg) `(quote ,arg)) args)))) 19:11:46 pfft 19:11:52 rudybot: (define (my-apply f args) (eval `((quote ,f) ,@(map (lambda (arg) `(quote ,arg)) args)))) 19:11:53 unkanon: Done. 19:12:14 Note that the semantics of a quotation of non-readable data is not specified in the R5RS, and probably not in the R6RS either. 19:12:15 (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:12:24 rudybot: (my-apply + '(1 2 3)) 19:12:24 unkanon: ; Value: 6 19:12:25 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:30 I mean, you're taking values you've already computed, then running a compiler over them to construct a program that will RE-produce the same values, then running that program. UGH. 19:13:07 oh I never said that it would be clever or efficient to write apply in terms of cons and eval 19:13:28 Prof. Jerry Cain said apply is "like cons + eval" 19:14:05 He left out "quote". And "wasteful inefficiency". ;) 19:14:36 heheh 19:15:13 But it's really only like quote + cons + eval if the current namespace uses the same #%app and quote bindings as you expect them to... reasoning about eval is just way too complex. 19:15:27 The right way to do this is ((let ((l (iota (+ 1 (length arguments))))) (eval `(lambda (x) (let ,(map (lambda (i) `(,(symbol 'x i) (list-ref x ,i))) l) ,(map (lambda (i) `(list-ref x ,i)) l))) env)) (cons procedure arguments)). 19:15:45 I actually like the fact that apply is not defined in terms of eval. I never use eval for anything 19:15:51 in any language 19:16:06 (...with (define (symbol prefix suffix) (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string prefix) (number->string suffix)))).) 19:16:17 Riastradh: I'll just trust you on that :) 19:16:26 ...er, excuse me; I mixed up two different ways to go about that. Ignore the symbol crap. 19:16:31 Yes, but that's like saying "I actually like the fact that cons is not defined in terms of the traveling salesman problem". It darn well better not be. 19:16:58 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 19:17:02 well it was Jerry who put that idea in my mind, that apply is based on eval 19:17:08 otherwise I agree with you 19:17:08 ((eval `(lambda (x) ,(map (lambda (i) `(list-ref x ,i)) (iota (+ 1 (length arguments))))) (scheme-report-environment 5)) (cons procedure arguments)) 19:17:28 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 19:18:24 lol in lecture 21 the Prof simply switched from kawa syntax to chicken 19:18:53 he's now doing (define (sum x y... instead of his usual (define sum (x y... 19:19:19 (define (f x y z) ...) and (define f (lambda (x y z) ...)) are semantically equivalent in Scheme. 19:20:03 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 19:20:07 (However, (define f (x y z)) is different, and (define f (x y z) ...) doesn't work at all.) 19:26:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:25 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.152.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:14 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:20 phao [~phao@189.107.231.58] has joined #scheme 19:30:34 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:31:21 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:32:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:33:00 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:33:30 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:40:04 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:24 masm [~masm@bl15-70-211.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:41:23 yeah I know that, but he's really using two different syntaxes 19:41:58 Sounds like he's mixing Scheme and Lisp syntax, perhaps. 19:42:38 maybe he announced that he was going to switch syntaxes temporarily just to explain the equivalency to lambda, and I missed it 19:43:22 alexshendi [~alexshend@dslb-178-002-229-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:35 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.231.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:52 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:50:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:56:59 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:12 STREAMS FTW. 19:58:28 *Caleb--* steals cky's lucky charms 20:02:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:06:01 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:13:34 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:23 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined 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[~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:40 web sites in scheme, what a nice dream! 22:58:49 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-218-205.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e0b815c.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 23:03:38 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 23:05:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:39 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:09 is sean grove ever here? 23:09:29 He's in #chicken 23:10:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:11:16 -!- preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:57 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 23:12:23 timj [~timj@e176197179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:14:11 thanks 23:17:25 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:27:02 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:35 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:35 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:35 -!- knob [~anon@adsl-64-237-173-147.prtc.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:35 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:35 -!- carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 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