00:02:59 schmir [~schmir@p54A90441.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:03:11 jao [~user@31.Red-79-151-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:11 -!- jao [~user@31.Red-79-151-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:03:11 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 00:05:39 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:51 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 00:09:30 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 00:10:40 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:15:50 -!- mejja [~chatzilla@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 00:17:15 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:19:51 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 00:22:44 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 00:24:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:24:46 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:24:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:26:27 klutometis: generation gap 00:27:13 places like FreeNode didn't really exist when IRC was getting started and those folks likely got their first exposure to it 00:27:57 most of the opinions I've seen from greybeards on IRC is that it's a pestilential shithole full of idiots and dicks, although in much more polite language 00:28:18 and I'm not sure that's an entirely unfair characterization of many early IRC networks 00:29:20 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:29:54 the level of technical and social utility beyond Twitter-like instant news transmission and as a venue for fucking around was fairly low 00:30:15 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:42 general-purpose IRC network's association with haX0ring and warez transmission via DCC in the early days also likely didn't improve the general impression that was made. 00:37:43 So, do they all use mailing lists? Or telephones? Letters? :-) 00:38:25 when stuff like FreeNode and OFTC and other special purpose, semi-decently-moderated semi-on-topics started getting created, it started getting a lot more useful for people with purely technical interests 00:39:52 -!- Blkt [~user@93-45-213-247.ip104.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:59 especially as a generation of new open/free software folks and general software engineers who had a misspent youth on it began using it to distribute serious business information and treating it closer to a mailing list. 00:40:19 fds: email and mailing lists, the traditional tools for the folks who started on ARPANet 00:40:37 caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:42:17 -!- caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #scheme 00:42:57 aleix [~aleix@95.21.119.202] has joined #scheme 00:43:22 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:09 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:08 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90441.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:56:35 heheh "misspent youth" :) 00:59:20 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4348A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:59:51 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-23.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:37 pothos [~pothos@111-240-229-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:09:54 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 01:10:45 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f7693b1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:10:57 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-4dbec556.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:40 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:16:31 Adamant: Interesting, I'm too much of a whippersnapper to know anything about ARPANet. 01:17:26 fds: if you got on the Internet in the early days you have a pretty decent feel for what late ARPA/NSFNet was like 01:18:52 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:57 1993-1996 was when the first wave of non-ARPANet users joined, and while the Net culture was changing at that point, you could get a decent flavor of how things were by listening to the old timers 01:20:15 Adamant: Heh, nope. I only properly got on the Internet about four years ago. I can tell you all about misspent youth. ;-) 01:20:20 lol 01:20:36 yeah, those days are gone and not returning, then 01:22:21 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:09 the Net was a very different place when there wasn't a huge amount of money in it, the recourse to you being a persistent annoyance on the Net was that you got your account yanked permanently, and the average user had a certain level of intelligence and ability not to act like a huge cock due to their real-world social and technical reputation being tied to what they were doing 01:32:59 Adamant: spot on analysis, by the way; you speak with the authority of a 'net archaeologist. 01:40:38 caoliver [~userName@adsl-99-102-179-66.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:24 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:39 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 01:45:49 -!- caoliver [~userName@adsl-99-102-179-66.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:14 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:53 -!- githogori [~githogori@229.sub-75-210-207.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:01 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:32 -!- aleix [~aleix@95.21.119.202] has quit [Quit: happy hacking!] 02:34:31 Rmind [~Gmind@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 02:34:49 Hi yo 02:35:10 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:16 Have a nice xmas every Schemers 02:35:23 :-) 02:35:27 You too! 02:35:28 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:39 ya... thanks 02:36:11 although, our country don't actually have this 02:36:57 :P 02:37:04 but still fun 02:38:43 cky: I have just figured out a good thing of Scheme yesterday 02:39:01 because I came back to F# to see how my AI status now 02:39:12 so I fixed a lot of code 02:39:39 what I noticed were all follow the Scheme style :D 02:40:04 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:40:19 Which is better for me somehow 02:41:25 So then, after all, parentheses are not bad 02:41:43 it's even better 02:44:24 see ya, I'm off to games, haven't sleep for a day 02:44:27 -!- Rmind [~Gmind@113.190.202.190] has left #scheme 02:47:07 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 03:04:01 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-jifsncysvtvvzcwy] has joined #scheme 03:04:05 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-jifsncysvtvvzcwy] has quit [Changing host] 03:04:05 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 03:04:34 -!- karljoh [karljoh@h-79-127.A165.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13:08 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:15:50 yamanu [~yamanu@89.142.205.196] has joined #scheme 03:20:27 i came from yesterday 03:20:53 somnium [~user@184.42.0.205] has joined #scheme 03:20:54 an must say that fooBarBaz naming sucks 03:20:58 Time travelling! :-o 03:21:15 because it requires rules 03:21:23 Although, I came from yesterday too. It took me 24 hours to get here though! 03:21:43 ...Sorry, ignore me. 03:22:05 yeah - close laptop in the evening, open the lid in the morning an you get kinda yesterday news 03:29:25 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:29:58 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:57 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@71-215-25-216.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:22 yamanu: Hahaha. 03:46:12 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-144-47.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:47:46 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 03:49:24 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:11 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:52:42 timj__ [~timj@e176196057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:56:05 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176195109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:17 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 04:02:59 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.202.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:02 bitweiler` [~bitweiler@99.190.74.30] has joined #scheme 04:12:09 good day ;) 04:12:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 04:14:06 :-) 04:14:54 -!- bitweiler` [~bitweiler@99.190.74.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:57 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.74.30] has joined #scheme 04:33:05 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:49 sunnyps [~sunnyps@36.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 05:16:41 mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #scheme 05:18:13 -!- yamanu [~yamanu@89.142.205.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:23:45 jcowan [~John@p-69-195-52-55.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:18 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:38:51 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:29 Chipmunk [~Kaushik@nat/google/x-dbvnpyijgjubyfsh] has joined #scheme 05:46:26 foof`: ping 05:50:14 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:52 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 05:59:23 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:30 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:08:31 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:09:56 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:42 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 06:18:33 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:07 mmc [~michal@cs181176169.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 06:39:47 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:56 hey is 'Loving Lisp, or the Savvy Programmer's Secret Weapon' scheme related? 06:52:21 bitweiler: Link? 06:52:49 http://markwatson.com/opencontent/lovinglisp.zip 06:52:59 Cool. 06:53:08 It's Common Lisp based, but probably some or all of it transfers over. 06:54:25 -!- mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:02:48 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:20:52 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@60-241-250-19.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:22:49 Arafangion [~arafangio@60-241-250-19.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:26:27 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:19 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:39:54 Rmind [~Gmind@113.190.202.190] has joined #scheme 07:45:29 -!- Rmind [~Gmind@113.190.202.190] has left #scheme 07:50:41 hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has joined #scheme 07:50:41 -!- hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has quit [Changing host] 07:50:41 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:58:45 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:00:26 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:00:33 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:13 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:03:18 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:24 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:05:07 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:33 -!- mmc [~michal@cs181176169.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:14 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:07:18 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:20:23 -!- jcowan [~John@p-69-195-52-55.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:12 -!- foof` is now known as foof 08:25:55 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:28:37 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:28:45 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-231-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 08:45:45 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 08:48:20 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:47:02 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-4dbec556.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: "Es weihnachtet sehr! Frohe Weihnachten an alle!!!"] 09:50:18 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:40 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e0b815c.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 10:04:53 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:05 -!- noonian [~noonian@c-98-232-230-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:13:19 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-231-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:55 aLeSD [~alex@109.115.166.2] has joined #scheme 10:19:01 -!- aLeSD [~alex@109.115.166.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:19:46 aLeSD [~alex@109.115.166.2] has joined #scheme 10:19:51 hi all 10:20:03 I am starting to learn scheme 10:20:15 I come from c/c++ programming 10:20:23 could you suggest me where to start ? 10:20:46 in a practical way (please) to much theory make me lazy 10:20:53 *cky* has never heard of C/C++. It sounds very exotic. :-P 10:21:00 You could start by playing with Chicken. 10:21:33 It's one of a number of implementations that compile to C, so you can interface easily with C code that way. 10:21:51 cky 10:21:56 do u know fluxus ? 10:21:59 (Most Scheme implementations have ways to interface with C code; Chicken's way may be easier for a C programmer to work with. Perhaps.) 10:22:02 No. 10:22:15 I am trying to learn scheme to use it 10:22:46 is a 'language' that let livecoding with music to have visual images 10:22:50 It seems, from Googling, that Fluxus is Racket-based. 10:23:06 it uses scheme 10:23:13 In that case, you should use Racket, and disregard my advice to use Chicken. 10:23:16 I need to learn scheme for that reason 10:24:12 You should start by doing to http://docs.racket-lang.org/. 10:24:20 It has tutorials and all kinds of useful material. 10:24:38 *going 10:24:39 mmm 10:24:52 but I thought that fluxus was based on drscheme 10:25:07 Racket is the new name for PLT Scheme. DrScheme is now known as DrRacket. 10:25:10 how you know that it is based on racket ? 10:25:17 aLeSD: Because I Googled. 10:25:17 ahhh 10:25:21 thanks 10:25:23 lol 10:25:52 thanks 10:25:53 -!- aLeSD [~alex@109.115.166.2] has left #scheme 10:25:54 There is, BTW, a #racket channel for Racket-specific questions, which you may find useful too. 10:25:57 Uh, okay. 10:26:00 Never mind, then. 10:26:12 How rude 10:26:34 Yeah. I guess it takes all sorts to make the world. 10:26:41 :) 10:33:41 kuribas [~user@d54C4348A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:43:01 mmc [~michal@cs181176169.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:44:18 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:18 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:51:59 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-231-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:59:44 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 10:59:58 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:23 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:17 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:15:04 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-21-154.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:44 gravicappa 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[57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:55 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:56:11 Somelauw [~anonymous@031-214-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #scheme 21:57:14 Are there any serious applications made in scheme? 21:59:32 no 21:59:38 none at all 21:59:44 we just masturbate with it 22:01:33 Because I heard that the language is only useful for teaching kids how to program. 22:01:48 -!- karljoh [karljoh@h-79-127.A165.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:31 Somelauw: it's also useful for teaching kids to dislike parentheses 22:03:36 If you consider MIT computer science students "kids", it's used for that, sure :) But the question is, if an app was written in scheme, how would you know? 22:05:15 Well, since none of them are compiled, there is probably an interpreter somewhere around. 22:05:38 Scheme can be compiled 22:05:40 None of them are compiled? What makes you say that? 22:06:07 Well byte-compiled maybe. 22:06:08 Just like more traditional dialects of LISP can be 22:06:32 *sjamaan* giggles at Somelauw's attitude 22:06:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o chandler 22:06:45 No, just plain compiled, fuill stop. 22:06:50 Somelauw: There are Scheme->C compilers as well as native code compilers 22:06:52 What makes you think it can't be? 22:07:41 Somelauw: Before making up your mind about a subject, consider actually investigating it 22:07:47 It might help 22:07:53 Somelauw: Chicken, Gambit, and Stalin are three well-known Scheme->C compilers. 22:08:38 More like converters, but alright. 22:08:43 Somelauw: IIRC, Larceny has a straight-to-assembly compiler. 22:08:59 Somelauw: So gcc is a C converter? 22:09:00 Somelauw: "Converter"? Surely you jest. They're fully-fledged compilers. 22:10:36 So what applications are actually made using scheme? 22:10:45 Somelauw: LilyPond. 22:10:48 That you know of. 22:10:51 Just because something uses C as an intermediate language for example, that doesn't mean the result isn't a compiled program. It means the developer took advantage of the fact that there already exists an efficient layer for generating machine code for multiple platforms using C as an intermediate representation. 22:11:27 Somelauw: Gambit's webpage talks about a couple of games (one of them sold on Steam) that's written with Gambit. 22:11:54 TeXmacs too 22:12:21 Yep. 22:12:38 And the community Scheme wiki and Chicken wiki both run on wiki software written in Scheme 22:12:48 (different pieces of software) 22:13:22 Somelauw: can you define a compiler? 22:13:26 Don't forget edwin :) 22:13:38 Somelauw: I'm curious how/why you distinguish compiler from converter 22:13:46 and why you think scheme can't be compiled? 22:14:16 copumpkin: Something that produces native machine code. C-converters are also compilers but indirect. 22:14:17 Somelauw: The game I was thinking of is called Quantz. 22:14:27 It's written with Gambit and you can buy it on Steam. 22:14:28 Somelauw: machine code is just another language 22:14:31 I don't think it can't be compiled. 22:14:36 Somelauw: o.O 22:14:45 Also, if there seems to be a lack of larger apps in scheme, it could be because scheme is closely related to lisp, which has more of a history of being used for "real" apps, and hence that's where the lispy dev resources are for that sort of thing 22:14:50 cky, Somelauw: There are a few games for the iPhone written in Scheme too 22:14:56 sjamaan: Oh, cool! 22:15:08 "Farmageddon" and an Othello clone I forgot the name of come to mind 22:15:16 I like scheme, but I just wonder why it isn't a common language. 22:15:30 because programmers tend to be close-minded 22:15:34 It's more common than Erlang! 22:15:42 and arrogant 22:16:05 [05:08:38 PM] More like converters, but alright. 22:16:11 Well as I say it might be because CL is more common in that respect, and i would guess that CL and Scheme attract the same developers because of lispiness 22:16:21 cky: I think it was called Reverso 22:16:31 ventonegro wrote it 22:16:38 copumpkin++ 22:16:46 I read some blog posts that say that scheme is too small. 22:16:53 Somelauw: Heh. 22:17:05 I feel we're being trolled 22:17:09 That's one opinion :) 22:17:10 don't really feel like acting on it though 22:17:13 I read a blog post once where some guy said something sucked. 22:17:35 Racket and Chicken aren't small if you take into account their package libraries 22:17:43 I read a blog post once where some guy said something was awesome 22:17:56 And practical lisp says: his isn't to say that's a particularly fair characterization of Scheme, but it's even less applicable to Common Lisp, which was expressly designed to be a real-world engineering language rather than a theoretically "pure" language. 22:18:17 Somelauw: Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one, and nobody wants anything to do with anyone else's. 22:18:25 lol 22:18:28 nice 22:19:09 :-) 22:19:24 :D 22:19:45 anyway, your converter/compiler distinction exists only in your head 22:19:56 and scheme can be compiled like most other languages 22:21:01 the fact that most people don't enjoy writing native-code generators is more of a reason than some inherent quality of scheme 22:22:13 *cky* wants to write a native-code generator. :-D 22:22:29 And I'll get to it in my Copious Free Time. 22:22:33 some people enjoy that, others don't :) 22:22:41 How could you make an uncompileable language? 22:22:42 (Ah, if only I can find some way to make it work-related. :-P) 22:22:55 cky: Will you write one using scheme? 22:22:57 fds: A Turing tarpit language may be hard to compile well. 22:23:02 Somelauw: Yes, it will be written in Scheme. 22:23:16 well durr 22:23:44 Somelauw: Non-self-hosting Scheme compilers are so 19th century. :-P 22:24:23 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:24:24 A language like javascript in which everything is a dictionary is probably very hard to compile to its most efficient form. 22:24:43 offby1 [ce7c8a7d@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 22:24:45 Okay 22:24:57 Somelauw: Ever heard of JIT compilation? It's surprisingly effective for dynamic languages. 22:25:02 cky: I'm tempted ask why, but I doubt I understand the issues well enough to comprehend a more complete answer. A Turing tarpit is like Brainfuck though, right? A Turing complete but practically useless language? 22:25:15 Yes, I have. 22:25:18 fds: You're on the right track. Now think of a language like Minus. 22:25:35 fds: http://www.golfscript.com/minus/ 22:25:48 Compiling JavaScript is not hard. Optimizing it is hard. 22:26:19 githogori [~githogori@157.sub-75-208-123.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 22:26:31 cky: Thanks, that was proving tricky to Google for, also... Wow 22:26:33 It doesn't make sense to talk about an "uncompilable" language absent a definition of compilation. 22:26:43 fds: Wow is right. 22:27:29 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:36 sjamaan: Apparently Farmageddon and Reverso used Gambit, also. Seems like "the" implementation game authors prefer? *shrug* 22:27:48 sjamaan: Though, of course, Chicken sounds like a fine implementation for the likes of iPhone. 22:28:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:08 yeah 22:28:25 most horribly dynamically languages are used in fairly statically typed manners 22:28:42 I think at least one of those games was written because Gambit was already made to run on the iPhone 22:28:43 Minus looks like a fairly complicated language. They're cheating by saying there's only one operator; their "special variables" are essentially operators of their own. 22:28:44 copumpkin: Indeed, and that's where JIT compilation is a real win. 22:28:51 chandler: Indeed. 22:29:08 sjamaan: *nods* 22:29:39 copumpkin: A language I can think of where "using in fairly statically typed manner" is not common is GolfScript. 22:29:40 I know people have been playing with Chicken on the iPhone, but I don't know if anybody ever really made it work 22:29:47 I dread the idea of trying to write a JIT compiler for GolfScript. 22:30:27 (GolfScript is for code golfing. Code maintainability is totally irrelevant.) 22:31:04 What, Perl wasn't enough? ;) 22:31:10 :-) 22:31:23 For the right kind of problem (no floating-point, no regex, etc.), GolfScript makes much, much more compact programs than Perl. 22:31:32 And APL? 22:31:38 Well, I don't know about APL. 22:32:22 If you Google up "fibonacci code golf", you'll see my winning entry, written in GolfScript. :-) 22:32:34 I do not think you can write something like that in Perl for 13 chars. :-) 22:32:44 But, you're welcome to make a 12-char APL version. :-P 22:32:47 APL uses symbols for every function or syntax. 22:33:03 I can't imagine people like that. 22:33:10 Heh. 22:33:11 And all functions apply on whole vectors or matrices 22:37:48 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-220.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:56 zenlunatic [~bradley@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:41:12 topic 22:45:02 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.190.74.30] has joined #scheme 22:47:58 -!- Somelauw [~anonymous@031-214-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:54:35 MindFrog [~Fill@bl7-105-141.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:55:35 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 22:56:09 Hey guys, looking for some help on a university project on scheme version 372 ... I was trying to copy a vector e.g. I want to make a copy of vector1 so I tried (set! vec2 vector1) but it screwed up because if I change something on vector1, vec2 is also affected... 22:56:23 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:56:37 so I went to the help files and found vector-copy, however I keep getting the "undefined identifier" error message whenever I try to use vector-copy, any hints plz? 22:57:20 I'm guessing I must load some library or something to be able to use vector-copy but I can't find anything about it 22:59:08 MindFrog: I don't know the MzScheme 372 syntax, but for 4.0+, it's (require srfi/43). 22:59:27 hum let me try 23:00:16 MindFrog: If you ask in #racket about how to load SRFI 43 in MzScheme 372, you may get a slightly more timely answer. Maybe. 23:00:59 can't load it with that syntax 23:01:04 ok I'll go there, 1 minute 23:02:26 :-) 23:02:33 Obviously it seems no Racket users are awake at the mo. :-P 23:02:39 What a shame. 23:02:43 oh, and thanks a lot cky! ;) 23:02:49 My pleasure. 23:03:08 no prob., I'll wait, maybe someone will show up ^^ 23:03:11 :-) 23:04:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-220.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:59 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:25 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye] 23:19:55 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90DDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:55 -!- wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:06 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:54 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4348A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:27:09 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-21-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:04 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:31:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-21-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:32 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e0b815c.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:33:46 hey in (lambda () (if (g) (f) (f))) why is the g var not returned directly but f is? 23:34:57 oh nevermind, I see why now 23:35:03 *bitweiler* *blushes* 23:35:42 Hahahahaha. 23:39:54 LOL 23:41:33 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has left #scheme 23:41:37 -!- wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:42:38 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme